RX-Snake: Engine Related

[Vettezuki]

You can find a used Holley carb at the Long Beach Swap meet next weekend. Phil and I went to the last one and there were a ton of them there. You should be able to pick one up for around $50. Then we can just rebuild it. A rebuild kit cost about $50. We can also use a power valve block off plate ($4.50 from Summit) and run larger jets in the secondaries so we don't have to try and tune it for the power valve. This is the same way my carb is on the Chevelle.

Sorry for the dumb uestions, but is there (what model) has the mechanical secondaries and four corner idle set? Glenn said that for using a standard carb, the four corner idle adjust es muy importante.

[94cobra69ss396]

Sorry for the dumb uestions, but is there (what model) has the mechanical secondaries and four corner idle set? Glenn said that for using a standard carb, the four corner idle adjust es muy importante.

4150 is the mechanical secondaries version and a 4160 is the vacuum secondaries. Only the 750cfm and 850cfm 4150 has 4 corner idle circuits. All other 600, 650, 700 and 800cfm have 2 corner.

Is Glenn going with you to the swap meet in Long Beach?

[Vettezuki]

4150 is the mechanical secondaries version and a 4160 is the vacuum secondaries. Only the 750cfm and 850cfm 4150 has 4 corner idle circuits. All other 600, 650, 700 and 800cfm have 2 corner.

Is Glenn going with you to the swap meet in Long Beach?

I'll ask if he wants to go, but at least Joe will be going.

[94cobra69ss396]

I'll ask if he wants to go, but at least Joe will be going.

If he can't go and you want me to meet you guys there just let me know.

[enkeivette]

Ben, just do not put the engine back together yourself. I am sure plenty of us would love to help and learn as well. I am sure that Sean for example would love to stand around and watch. He will point to something a few times and do his best to get some grease on himself. Relax Sean, every good team needs a guy who can order and get a good pizza. That can be your role.


Sean can do anything and everything that the rest of us grease monkeys can do, how hard is it to work a wrench. But manicures are pricey and sweat isn't good for a perm. :pot_stir:


Began stripping the engine down. This was my first time doing this kinda work, and I learned the push rods just sort of fall out when you pull the heads. :leaving: You can click on the images for the hi-res versions.

You're supposed to pull off the rockers, then carefully slide out the pushrods and lay them aside. Keeping them in order and oriented correctly. Silly butt.



A few pages back someone was asking about jet recommendations. Take my word on this, you won't get any. E85, gas or lemon juice. No one likes to give carb jet recommendation because every engine IS different. I found an engine almost identical to mine in every way (when it was NA), and with jets larger than he had, I was over 15:1 AFR while he was right in the 12s.

If your fuel pump puts out slightly more pressure, or your LSA is different, it's all out the door. And you are now a pioneer, despite the thousands of blown SBFs that came before you.

[Vettezuki]

. . .
You're supposed to pull off the rockers, then carefully slide out the pushrods and lay them aside. Keeping them in order and oriented correctly. Silly butt.

Yeah, these ones did a little dance on the floor. But I learned.

A few pages back someone was asking about jet recommendations. Take my word on this, you won't get any. E85, gas or lemon juice. No one likes to give carb jet recommendation because every engine IS different. I found an engine almost identical to mine in every way (when it was NA), and with jets larger than he had, I was over 15:1 AFR while he was right in the 12s.

If your fuel pump puts out slightly more pressure, or your LSA is different, it's all out the door. And you are now a pioneer, despite the thousands of blown SBFs that came before you.

There's nothing more funner than being a pioneer.

[big2bird]

A few pages back someone was asking about jet recommendations. Take my word on this, you won't get any. E85, gas or lemon juice. No one likes to give carb jet recommendation because every engine IS different. I found an engine almost identical to mine in every way (when it was NA), and with jets larger than he had, I was over 15:1 AFR while he was right in the 12s.

If your fuel pump puts out slightly more pressure, Nopeor your LSA is different, it's all out the door. And you are now a pioneer, despite the thousands of blown SBFs that came before you.

Basically, a carb is nothing more than a metering device. You can place well tuned carb on one car, then another, and it will be real close. AFR is AFR, whether it be a Chevy or a lawnmower. That is what wet flow bench calibration is all about. If you and your buddies carb are that different, onbe is f----d up.

[big2bird]

Yeah, these ones did a little dance on the floor. But I learned.


Inspect, but buy new ones, those will end up in the trash.. You probably want to buy new ones after checking your geometry anyhow.

[BRUTAL64]

I'm still holding out hope for the 174.

This (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120313842316&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:Watchlink:middle:us) looks like a pretty good carb for that app. Check specs:

It's pretty and is a 4150. So, it looks good.:sm_up_there:

[BRUTAL64]

I don't think we are going to want a vacuum secondary carb. I would go with a double pumper.

Yea, I concure.:D

[94cobra69ss396]

It's pretty and is a 4150. So, it looks good.:sm_up_there:

It's a 4160 because of the vacuum secondary. You can buy this carb from Summit for $250. Although it doesn't have the milled choke tower or the pretty power coat.

[BRUTAL64]

It's a 4160 because of the vacuum secondary. You can buy this carb from Summit for $250. Although it doesn't have the milled choke tower or the pretty power coat.

4150--Two metering blocks
4160-- One metering block and rear metering plate.

Either Vac or Mech secondaries.;)

[94cobra69ss396]

4150--Two metering blocks
4160-- One metering block and rear metering plate.

Either Vac or Mech secondaries.;)

Good to know. So 4160 is always vacuum secondary but 4150 can be either vacuum or mechanical?

[enkeivette]

Basically, a carb is nothing more than a metering device. You can place well tuned carb on one car, then another, and it will be real close. AFR is AFR, whether it be a Chevy or a lawnmower. That is what wet flow bench calibration is all about. If you and your buddies carb are that different, onbe is f----d up.

The main difference was (IMHO) the air bleeds and the LSA of the cam. His carb was a Holley 750 and mine is a Mighty Demon 750. The Mighty Demon is modeled after a Holley double, but Demons are notoriously lean out of the box.

Also, the throttle pump cams and squirter nozzles were waaay too small on the Demon. Which I think is a result of my LSA, I had the same duration as the other dude.



Another vote here for mechanical, vacuum sucks.

[BRUTAL64]

Good to know. So 4160 is always vacuum secondary but 4150 can be either vacuum or mechanical?

No, 4160s or 4150s can be either Vac or Mech secondaries. It has to to do with the metering blocks.:D

[BRUTAL64]

August 2008 Chevy High-Performance Mag-- Page 44


Easy E85 --Installing Quick Fuel Technology's Billet Metering Block Conversion Kit. They installed it on a Holley 750 DP. Good Stuff.


I have the mag if you want it.:thumbs_up:

[94cobra69ss396]

No, 4160s or 4150s can be either Vac or Mech secondaries. It has to to do with the metering blocks.:D

I found this on FordMuscle.com after I found out what I thought was wrong.

"When it comes to Holleys, 4150 and 4160 refer to the two most popular models of Holley carbs. A 4150 has both primary and secondary metering blocks, allowing you to change jetting for both the primary and secondary circuits. The 4160 models utilize a metering plate in the secondary , which has fixed, non-adjustable, metering orifices. All 4160 models have vacuum actuated secondary throttle plates. The 4150 models come in either dual mechanical throttle plates or with vacuum secondaries. All 4150's have dual accelerator pumps, and dual fuel inlets hence the term "double pumper." The difference between vacuum and mechanical secondaries is simply in how the carb actuates the secondary metering system. In vacuum actuated carbs, the secondaries open up only when the vacuum across the primary venturis reaches a certain level. A diaphragm housing on the side of the carb contains a changeable spring which controls precisely when the secondaries open. On a mechanical secondary carb the secondaries open when the throttle lever reaches a certain position. The simplest way to tell which type you have is to look down the throat of the carb, with the engine off, and pull back on the throttle lever. If the secondaries open, its a mechanical secondary."

[94cobra69ss396]

August 2008 Chevy High-Performance Mag-- Page 44


Easy E85 --Installing Quick Fuel Technology's Billet Metering Block Conversion Kit. They installed it on a Holley 750 DP. Good Stuff.


I have the mag if you want it.:thumbs_up:

Here's the artical online. http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/0808chp_holley_750_e85_conversion_kit/index.html

[BRUTAL64]

I found this on FordMuscle.com after I found out what I thought was wrong.

"When it comes to Holleys, 4150 and 4160 refer to the two most popular models of Holley carbs. A 4150 has both primary and secondary metering blocks, allowing you to change jetting for both the primary and secondary circuits. The 4160 models utilize a metering plate in the secondary , which has fixed, non-adjustable, metering orifices. All 4160 models have vacuum actuated secondary throttle plates. The 4150 models come in either dual mechanical throttle plates or with vacuum secondaries. All 4150's have dual accelerator pumps, and dual fuel inlets hence the term "double pumper." The difference between vacuum and mechanical secondaries is simply in how the carb actuates the secondary metering system. In vacuum actuated carbs, the secondaries open up only when the vacuum across the primary venturis reaches a certain level. A diaphragm housing on the side of the carb contains a changeable spring which controls precisely when the secondaries open. On a mechanical secondary carb the secondaries open when the throttle lever reaches a certain position. The simplest way to tell which type you have is to look down the throat of the carb, with the engine off, and pull back on the throttle lever. If the secondaries open, its a mechanical secondary."

Now I see what you mean. Yea, if you look at it that way 4160 would all be Vac Secondaries. But, 4150 and 4160 is determined by metering blocks--the Vac Secondary thing is just a by line. But, could be true if you want to look at it as a Vac Secondary only.:thumbs_up:

[BRUTAL64]

Here's the artical online. http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/0808chp_holley_750_e85_conversion_kit/index.html

So I can toss the Mag??????????

[94cobra69ss396]

So I can toss the Mag??????????

I guess it depends on whether Ben still wants to run E85. I think it would be a lot easier to run a mix of race fuel and pump gas.

[BRUTAL64]

I guess it depends on whether Ben still wants to run E85. I think it would be a lot easier to run a mix of race fuel and pump gas.



Well, I knew they we talking about E85, when I found this I thought they may like to read it. :thumbs_up:

[Vettezuki]

Well, I knew they we talking about E85, when I found this I thought they may like to read it. :thumbs_up:


Keep the article for reference. I still haven't decided whether to start with an E85 setup or not. It might make more sense to start with a gas setup since it is well understand, shake out other bugs, run the car for a while, see what kindo f power and performance it makes, then do the E85 conversion as a dedicated project and compare results.

[BRUTAL64]

Keep the article for reference. I still haven't decided whether to start with an E85 setup or not. It might make more sense to start with a gas setup since it is well understand, shake out other bugs, run the car for a while, see what kindo f power and performance it makes, then do the E85 conversion as a dedicated project and compare results.

Ok, that sounds fine.:bigthumbsup:

[BRUTAL64]

Chevy High Performance Mag

Janury 2009

They do "the Hottest Supercharged Combos inside".


Should I save this one too?

[Vettezuki]

Chevy High Performance Mag

Janury 2009

They do "the Hottest Supercharged Combos inside".


Should I save this one too?


you betcha. More info is more info.

[BRUTAL64]

CARCRAFT Mag

November 2008

"Make 625 hp with supercharger and E85".


Want that too?

[BRUTAL64]

CAR CRAFT

JULY 2008

302 build up NA 479hp with 185 cc AFR heads. Some good points in there.


Want it?

[Vettezuki]

CAR CRAFT

JULY 2008

302 build up NA 479hp with 185 cc AFR heads. Some good points in there.


Want it?

Just stack em' up. I'll pick them up from you Feb 21 at the latest.

[BRUTAL64]

Dyer's Blowers


7665 W. 63rd St.


Summit, IL. 60501


708-496-8100

Just given these guys from a friend. Maybe you already talked to them?

[joedls]

Dyer's Blowers


7665 W. 63rd St.


Summit, IL. 60501


708-496-8100

Just given these guys from a friend. Maybe you already talked to them?


I talked to them. No go.

[Vettezuki]

Went to the swap meet with Ron this morning. Unfortunately, they didn't have any parts for the blower.

We did pick up a brand new Holley 4160-3310c (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY-0-3310C&N=700+115&autoview=sku) with Quick Fuel Metering plates for a bit less than a brand new 4160. Yes it has the vacuum secondaries. It has jets in the secondary plate. The primary plate has idle adjust but not the secondary. I think it'll work for what we're doing.

Here's some pics:
http://motorgen.com/pic/data/771/medium/SwapMeetCarb1.JPG (http://motorgen.com/pic/data/771/SwapMeetCarb1.JPG)

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/771/medium/SwapMeetCarb2.JPG (http://motorgen.com/pic/data/771/SwapMeetCarb2.JPG)

We also pulled the cam. It's a Lunati 51014 (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN-51014LUN&FROM=MG).

So our setup is very similar to Ron's Cobra, except we have rather bigger heads and we're roots instead of centrifugal, but he's put down 430WHP with a slipping belt. We can expect at least this, maybe a bit more in a 2,600lbs car. Yeah haw.

[Vettezuki]

So Joe, unless you have some other plan, I'd like to pick up the whole blower and ship it off to PSE for evaluation. They can also check the rotors, etc. Then we'll know where we really stand. I also need to get the pan so I can take it to Ron.

[joedls]

So Joe, unless you have some other plan, I'd like to pick up the whole blower and ship it off to PSE for evaluation. They can also check the rotors, etc. Then we'll know where we really stand. I also need to get the pan so I can take it to Ron.


Not a problem, but I don't understand what good it will do you if they can't even tell you whether they can replace the broken parts yet. Shipping won't be cheap. They blower is kinda heavy. I'd think you would want to know if they can get or make the broken parts before paying for the shipping.

[joedls]

And the truth is, if we can get the parts, I would have Littlefield Blowers refurbish it. They did it for me the last time and did a bang-up job. They're also local, so no shipping. They can't, however, get the parts for this blower. That's why I doubt PSE can get them.

[Vettezuki]

Not a problem, but I don't understand what good it will do you if they can't even tell you whether they can replace the broken parts yet. Shipping won't be cheap. They blower is kinda heavy. I'd think you would want to know if they can get or make the broken parts before paying for the shipping.

I have industrial shipping rate privileges (much cheaper). PSE said they have a large inventory of parts and some are interchangeable, as well as being able to do some fabrication repair. Bottom line, Ed said he wouldn't be able to know for sure if they can get it back up and running until he sees it. If you're positive the rotors aren't bent or anything like that, and it's just the bearing plate and snout, I'll take it to my uncle's machine shop and see about macining new pieces. Basically, I'd like to take possession of the blower and get'r done one way or another.

[joedls]

I have industrial shipping rate privileges (much cheaper). PSE said they have a large inventory of parts and some are interchangeable, as well as being able to do some fabrication repair. Bottom line, Ed said he wouldn't be able to know for sure if they can get it back up and running until he sees it. If you're positive the rotors aren't bent or anything like that, and it's just the bearing plate and snout, I'll take it to my uncle's machine shop and see about macining new pieces. Basically, I'd like to take possession of the blower and get'r done one way or another.

I'll get the blower over to my shop this week. I'll call you when I have it there. I need to find a container to put it in so I don't get gear oil all over the place.

I'm pretty sure the rotors are OK. The gears need a little work and the shaft looks like it's OK, but that is just a visual inspection. Again, I would recommend finding the parts first. The price quoted by PSE seemed steep to me. I had that blower rebuilt with new bearings and seals for $350 a couple of years ago. This is the place that did it for me.

http://www.littlefieldblowers.com/

[BRUTAL64]

Went to the swap meet with Ron this morning. Unfortunately, they didn't have any parts for the blower.

We did pick up a brand new Holley 4160-3310c (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY-0-3310C&N=700+115&autoview=sku) with Quick Fuel Metering plates for a bit less than a brand new 4160. Yes it has the vacuum secondaries. It has jets in the secondary plate. The primary plate has idle adjust but not the secondary. I think it'll work for what we're doing.

Here's some pics:
http://motorgen.com/pic/data/771/medium/SwapMeetCarb1.JPG (http://motorgen.com/pic/data/771/SwapMeetCarb1.JPG)

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/771/medium/SwapMeetCarb2.JPG (http://motorgen.com/pic/data/771/SwapMeetCarb2.JPG)

We also pulled the cam. It's a Lunati 51014 (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN-51014LUN&FROM=MG).

So our setup is very similar to Ron's Cobra, except we have rather bigger heads and we're roots instead of centrifugal, but he's put down 430WHP with a slipping belt. We can expect at least this, maybe a bit more in a 2,600lbs car. Yeah haw.


OK, with "TWO" metering blocks it is a "4150" with Vac secondaries. :p

So they started with a 4160 and changed it to a 4150???. Now, I have done that MANY times. So no problems with that.

[94cobra69ss396]

OK, with "TWO" metering blocks it is a "4150" with Vac secondaries. :p

Actually this one is a 4160 model 3310 that originally had a metering block in the primary and a metering plate in the secondary. The owner upgraded it to dual Quick Fuel metering blocks. We checked the jets and they are 66 in the primary and 76 in the secondary. We were looking for a 4150 DP but couldn't find one. Then we came accross this vacuum secondary one and it was a good price. It should work great with this engine in either configuration we run, N/A or blown.

[BRUTAL64]

Actually this one is a 4160 model 3310 that originally had only one metering plate in the primary. The owner upgraded it to dual Quick Fuel metering plates. We checked the jets and they are 66 in the primary and 76 in the secondary. We were looking for a 4150 DP but couldn't find one. Then we came accross this vacuum secondary one and it was a good price. It should work great with this engine in either configuration we run, N/A or blown.

Interesting choose.

[94cobra69ss396]

Ben, here are the torque specs for the engine.

Main cap bolts 60-70 ft.-lbs.
Outer main cap bolts, 35-40 ft.-lbs.
Connecting rod bolts 19-24 ft.-lbs. (40-45 ft.-lbs. for 289 HP Boss 302)
Cylinder head bolts 65-72 ft.-lbs.
Rocker arms 17-23 ft.-lbs.
Intake manifold bolts 23-25 ft.-lbs.
Oil pump bolt 23-28 ft.-lbs.
Cam bolts 40-45 ft.-lbs.
Cam thrust plate bolts 8-10 ft.-lbs.
Harmonic damper bolts 70-90 ft.-lbs.
Flywheel/flexplate bolts 75-85 ft.-lbs.
Pressure plate bolts 35 ft.-lbs.
Front cover bolts 12-15 ft.-lbs.

[94cobra69ss396]

Interesting choose.

You don't like it? I use to have a 3310 on the Chevelle back when I had the 396 in it. They are easy to tune (great for Ben to learn with) and mine worked great. The only reason I replaced it was because one of my dads (he owned a repair shop) employees was supposedly a Holley rebuild expert and rebuilt my carb for me back when I was 20. After he did the secondaries no longer opened. That's when I bought my 850 DP.

[BRUTAL64]

You don't like it? I use to have a 3310 on the Chevelle back when I had the 396 in it. They are easy to tune (great for Ben to learn with) and mine worked great. The only reason I replaced it was because one of my dads (he owned a repair shop) employees was supposedly a Holley rebuild expert and rebuilt my carb for me back when I was 20. After he did the secondaries no longer opened. That's when I bought my 850 DP.

Well, it's not I don't like the 3310s. I've used them many times. It's just.............well, a cheapo carb that Holley sells as general replacement. Hopefully it will work well. :)


What's the "-" number? 3310-?

[SeanPlunk]

Well, it's not I don't like the 3310s. I've used them many times. It's just.............well, a cheapo carb the Holley sells as general replacement. Hopefully it will work well. :)


What's the "-" number? 3310-?

Well, the whole project is cheap and dirty - just like Jerry's mom :thumbs_up:

[BRUTAL64]

Well, the whole project is cheap and dirty - just like Jerry's mom :thumbs_up:

I thought Jerry-from his posts- was latino. The look on his face.............:laugh::laugh:

[Vettezuki]

Well, it's not I don't like the 3310s. I've used them many times. It's just.............well, a cheapo carb that Holley sells as general replacement. Hopefully it will work well. :)


What's the "-" number? 3310-?

It's this (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY-0-3310C&N=700+400178+115&autoview=sku) carb with the Quick Fuel bits added, which, as I understand it, makes it quite different than the base carb.

[BRUTAL64]

It's this (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY-0-3310C&N=700+400178+115&autoview=sku) carb with the Quick Fuel bits added, which, as I understand it, makes it quite different than the base carb.

Look on the front of the air horn, there will be 3310- give me the number or letter after the "-" or space.:drink:

[Vettezuki]

Look on the front of the air horn, there will be 3310- give me the number or letter after the "-" or space.:drink:

Air horn?

3310C. I'm 99.9% sure it's the one I linked in the post above.

[BRUTAL64]

Air horn?

3310C. I'm 99.9% sure it's the one I linked in the post above.

Air horn = choke butterfly housing.:drink:

[94cobra69ss396]

Air horn?

3310C. I'm 99.9% sure it's the one I linked in the post above.

Look on the front of the section I circled in orange where the arrow is pointing.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/Air_Horn_-_Choke_Tower.JPG

[Vettezuki]

Look on the front of the section I circled in orange where the arrow is pointing.

3310-11
2246

[BRUTAL64]

3310-11
2246

My first 3310 was 3310-1. So this one is fairly recent. As long as the main body is OK then it should work OK. I would of prefered Mech secondaries. I can even remember when Vac secondaries was all a person had to work with. :judge:

[enkeivette]

Any sort of schedule as to when the engine will be dropped in? At least the short block?

[Vettezuki]

Any sort of schedule as to when the engine will be dropped in? At least the short block?

I have a colleague at work who actually had a V8 RX7. (Found out after our project.) He has and is giving us the cross member and trans mount for a SBC and TKO so we can check it out. Hopefully within this week we can begin test fitting.

[94cobra69ss396]

I have a colleague at work who actually had a V8 RX7. (Found out after our project.) He has and is giving us the cross member and trans mount for a SBC and TKO so we can check it out. Hopefully within this week we can begin test fitting.

We also need the oil pan from Joe.

[joedls]

We also need the oil pan from Joe.

I'll have the oil pan and blower at my shop tomorrow. If needed, I can run them over to Ben's during the day sometime.

[Vettezuki]

Just an FYI.

I buy Torco Mach Fuel Accelerator in bulk. It's not an octane booster like others at all, but what Torco calls "Race fuel Concentrate". I know relatively small amounts of it (less than a quart to a full tank or more) work like a charm in my Vette. Anyway, just talked to their tech guy to get a little better idea of mixing ratio for 91. One quart to 10gal 91 equals about 102 octane. It ain't cheap when you buy it a quart at a time, but I have a 5 gal pale so it comes out to about $12.50 a quart; much cheaper than 50/50.

Anyway, we can figure tuning for 100 no problem.

[Vettezuki]

I'll have the oil pan and blower at my shop tomorrow. If needed, I can run them over to Ben's during the day sometime.

I can pick them up from you late in the afternoon if that works.

[BRUTAL64]

Here's something interesting. I pulled a 3310 Holley out of stock. This is a BRAND NEW one and it's stamped 3310-10. :p

[94cobra69ss396]

Here's something interesting. I pulled a 3310 Holley out of stock. This is a BRAND NEW one and it's stamped 3310-10. :p

The guy told us that he had just bought it. I took a look at the p/n on Phil's Holley the other day when we were working on his Jimmy. It too has 3310-10 and is about 8 or 9 months old that was purchased from Summit Racing.

[Vettezuki]

Here's something interesting. I pulled a 3310 Holley out of stock. This is a BRAND NEW one and it's stamped 3310-10. :p

"But mine's got eleven."

Name that movie.

[BRUTAL64]

"But mine's got eleven."

Name that movie.

Well, what movie????:censored:

[Vettezuki]

Well, what movie????:censored:

Spinal Tap.

[BRUTAL64]

Spinal Tap. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d54UU-fPIsY)

Ok, damn sound level 11???:censored:

[Vettezuki]

Ok, damn sound level 11???:censored:

Follow the link. My Carburetor has 11, "which is more isn't it." :rolling:

[Vettezuki]

Ok, what am I missing about this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1994-1995-5-0-MUSTANG-GT-TURBO-KIT-94-95-sn95_W0QQitemZ380105111563QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotor s_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item38010511156 3&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318#ebayp hotohosting) Turbo kit, is it just getting overlooked? This also put it up with no reserve.

If it'll fit a 5.0 it should fit RX-Snake. Yes I know we'd have to change to a blow through carb and get another intake.

[94cobra69ss396]

Ok, what am I missing about this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1994-1995-5-0-MUSTANG-GT-TURBO-KIT-94-95-sn95_W0QQitemZ380105111563QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotor s_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item38010511156 3&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318#ebayp hotohosting) Turbo kit, is it just getting overlooked? This also put it up with no reserve.

If it'll fit a 5.0 it should fit RX-Snake. Yes I know we'd have to change to a blow through carb and get another intake.


I see a couple of things to question about it. One, it says 94-95 GT headers. Does that mean they are the stock headers which only have 1 1/2 inch primary tubes or are they aftermarket headers with larger 1 5/8 primary tubes. Second, it is a T67 which I think is a really small turbo for a 5.0 V8 but I don't know enough about turbos to be sure. :huh: We need Steve to take a look at it.

[BRUTAL64]

Still stuck on the turbo idea, I see. It would be SO MUCH easier to just use a belt driven (if we are not using the 174)--like a Vortec.:p

[Vettezuki]

I see a couple of things to question about it. One, it says 94-95 GT headers. Does that mean they are the stock headers which only have 1 1/2 inch primary tubes or are they aftermarket headers with larger 1 5/8 primary tubes. Second, it is a T67 which I think is a really small turbo for a 5.0 V8 but I don't know enough about turbos to be sure. :huh: We need Steve to take a look at it.

Seller said custom headers with 1.7" primaries.

[Vettezuki]

Still stuck on the turbo idea, I see. It would be SO MUCH easier to just use a belt driven (if we are not using the 174)--like a Vortec.:p

I know. My preference is to inexpensively fix the 174. However, I've put in more than 20 hours from the beginning of this project trying to find parts, etc., still am. It ain't looking too easy and probably depends on simple dumb luck.

The cheapest centrifugal kit I've seen, and it was questionable was on CL for like $800. Considering I'd have to still get headers, an intake and blower carb that's considerably more than say this kit, if it stays low, which eliminates the need for headers. Also, while some of ya's are skiddish about getting turbos to work, more than a few users have expressed an interest in a V8 Turbo. It also has more pull for the kids. It isn't a slam dunk decision. There are lots of competing factors and values.

[enkeivette]

I know. My preference is to inexpensively fix the 174. However, I've put in more than 20 hours from the beginning of this project trying to find parts, etc., still am. It ain't looking too easy and probably depends on simple dumb luck.

The cheapest centrifugal kit I've seen, and it was questionable was on CL for like $800. Considering I'd have to still get headers, an intake and blower carb that's considerably more than say this kit, if it stays low, which eliminates the need for headers. Also, while some of ya's are skiddish about getting turbos to work, more than a few users have expressed an interest in a V8 Turbo. It also has more pull for the kids. It isn't a slam dunk decision. There are lots of competing factors and values.

Don't worry too much about getting a "blow through" carb. All you really need is a double pumper with black nitrophyl floats, and even the floats can be upgraded. A carb designed for a blower will always be better, but if it's a difference of a couple hundred dollars don't sweat it.

Have you thought about taking the blower to a machine shop, and having them spin you a new crank piece or whatever it was that broke off? If thems guys can weld on heads, I don't see why they couldn't weld and grind on a blower. Just need some heat and maybe a bearing pack right? Parts is parts.

[Vettezuki]

Don't worry too much about getting a "blow through" carb. All you really need is a double pumper with black nitrophyl floats, and even the floats can be upgraded. A carb designed for a blower will always be better, but if it's a difference of a couple hundred dollars don't sweat it.

Have you thought about taking the blower to a machine shop, and having them spin you a new crank piece or whatever it was that broke off? If thems guys can weld on heads, I don't see why they couldn't weld and grind on a blower. Just need some heat and maybe a bearing pack right? Parts is parts.

I thought as soon as you push air through a carb you need a boost reference for the fuel pressure. :huh:

The bearing plate is dented and cracked in half. I asked my uncle's machine shop. Even at the family hourly rate, the time it would take to do all the measurements and build the code for the 4 axis machine is several days and poof $1,500. It would, however, be a reproducible part at that point.

[enkeivette]

P.S. Attention muscle gear heads: Do not fear the turbo!

I've done an aftermarket turbo install before, since we will be fabbing a new exhaust the only issue will be plumbing the oil lines, which can be done in a few hours easily. If this SBF is at all like a SBC we can tap the block off plate for the mech fuel pump for the return line (as I suspect we will be running an electric) and there are prob a bunch of places where we can steal the feed. Worst case we can T off the oil pressure sensor line.

Obviously it will be externally regulated so boost adjustment should be stupid easy. We might have to play around with vacuum lines to dial it in, but working with race gas we can always just lean to more boost :D

In terms of making it fit between the towers, it seems to me that we have some fine welders on hand, we have the Schorr metals scrap yard down the street, and I have a beautiful Craftsman mallet.

[enkeivette]

The fuel pump needs to be boost referenced from a line above the base plate (something that shows boost but not vacuum), not the carb.

This was covered in my CS install 101 thread! Where were you forum God?! :sm_laughing:

[enkeivette]

Have you checked to see if any other more common blower share the same plate? You'd think blower shops would know this, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Do you still have the link to the pic of the blower? You should make it a separate thread.

[94cobra69ss396]

P.S. Attention muscle gear heads: Do not fear the turbo!

I've done an aftermarket turbo install before, since we will be fabbing a new exhaust the only issue will be plumbing the oil lines, which can be done in a few hours easily. If this SBF is at all like a SBC we can tap the block off plate for the mech fuel pump for the return line (as I suspect we will be running an electric) and there are prob a bunch of places where we can steal the feed. Worst case we can T off the oil pressure sensor line.

Obviously it will be externally regulated so boost adjustment should be stupid easy. We might have to play around with vacuum lines to dial it in, but working with race gas we can always just lean to more boost :D

In terms of making it fit between the towers, it seems to me that we have some fine welders on hand, we have the Schorr metals scrap yard down the street, and I have a beautiful Craftsman mallet.


We could duplicate the setup on my Cobra that I have for the Vortech. I have a T on oil pressure sending unit line that feeds the SC and then tapped the oil pan for the return. We could actually buy everything from Vortech to do it if the turbo kit doesn't come with it. The one Ben linked to already came with all the oil feed and return lines.

[Vettezuki]

Have you checked to see if any other more common blower share the same plate? You'd think blower shops would know this, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Do you still have the link to the pic of the blower? You should make it a separate thread.

Yes, at least as much as I can. Several blower shops flat out said, no parts, no can fixy. Part of the problem is that it's for a Ford, which has the offset to clear the dizzie on the front. There are a lot more setups for SBC.

[BRUTAL64]

I know. My preference is to inexpensively fix the 174. However, I've put in more than 20 hours from the beginning of this project trying to find parts, etc., still am. It ain't looking too easy and probably depends on simple dumb luck.

The cheapest centrifugal kit I've seen, and it was questionable was on CL for like $800. Considering I'd have to still get headers, an intake and blower carb that's considerably more than say this kit, if it stays low, which eliminates the need for headers. Also, while some of ya's are skiddish about getting turbos to work, more than a few users have expressed an interest in a V8 Turbo. It also has more pull for the kids. It isn't a slam dunk decision. There are lots of competing factors and values.

Actually, what ever you decide to do is fine by me. :drink:

[Vettezuki]

If we go Turbo or Centrifugal blower, would a Victor Jr. Single Plane intake still be the right choice or is there any reason to choose a different intake setup?

[94cobra69ss396]

If we go Turbo or Centrifugal blower, would a Victor Jr. Single Plane intake still be the right choice or is there any reason to choose a different intake setup?

I would say use the Victor Jr. You will be forcing a lot of air into the intake and the single plane will flow more than a dual plane.

[Vettezuki]

Just to confirm again, this Turbo Kit I'm looking at is designed for a 94/95 5.0. The exhaust ports on that motor are the same as what we have right?

[94cobra69ss396]

Just to confirm again, this Turbo Kit I'm looking at is designed for a 94/95 5.0. The exhaust ports on that motor are the same as what we have right?

Correct. The main difference between the Fox body (87-93) and the SN95 (94-95 with the 5.0) is the SN95 has less room in the engine compartment so it uses a different intake mainfold.

[Vettezuki]

Correct. The main difference between the Fox body (87-93) and the SN95 (94-95 with the 5.0) is the SN95 has less room in the engine compartment so it uses a different intake mainfold.

That's kinda good news if the kit is made to fit a smaller compartment. We should be able to fit it. . . . Let see where the price goes, if it sky rockets past $1,000 I'll punt. I talked to bgn8711 about the Turbo (Steve is absent) and he said it's a fairly decent size moderate turbo, plenty big for 12+psi on our motor, possibly up to 20psi he thinks.

[94cobra69ss396]

That's kinda good news if the kit is made to fit a smaller compartment. We should be able to fit it. . . . Let see where the price goes, if it sky rockets past $1,000 I'll punt. I talked to bgn8711 about the Turbo (Steve is absent) and he said it's a fairly decent size moderate turbo, plenty big for 12+psi on our motor, possibly up to 20psi he thinks.

Cool. I started sizing up the engine in the car last night until it got too windy. I pulled the crank out of my engine so I could pick it up easier and then installed the oil pan. My hoist is at Phil's house so I had to lift it up and set it in the car by hand. I set it down in the engine bay and then put a jack under the front and rear of the pan and lifted it to clear the crossmember. It looks like we might be able to use factory Mustang motor mounts so I went by GTR today and barrowed a set they had. I'm going to try to get them on the engine tonight and see if they'll work but Phil and I are also rebuilding my transfer case tonight so it might be tomorrow before I get to it.

[enkeivette]

I'll second the Victor Jr. Be sure to port match that sucker before you bolt it on, or buy a CNC'd version meant for the correct heads. I removed a lot of material from the ports on my Victor, opened them up a bunch.

Another mod that I did after the MagnaDynoDay. I did a nice job on mine, sure there are pics on my other comp somewhere. But anyone with a dremel can do a port match really.

[Vettezuki]

I PM'd CornFed about that kit, here's what he said:

actually that really doesnt look too bad! i predict the turbo will be a tad laggy maybe hitting fully spool at 4000rpm it could be less i doubt it would be too much more then that.

a t67 is a good turbo used on big hp applications

and this is a pretty good price kit.....id say go for it..

it has to good things going for it, the intercooler looks like its a good size, and well put together, and the turbo isnt some made in china ass knock off that the internals are gonna shit on u once u go past 5psi haha, so ya it gets my stamp man.

[enkeivette]

Forgot to mention 10 pages back, annular vs downleg boosters and carb 'size' can affect tuning. Some 750s are bigger than other 750s, as funny as that sounds.

[94cobra69ss396]

Forgot to mention 10 pages back, annular vs downleg boosters and carb 'size' can affect tuning. Some 750s are bigger than other 750s, as funny as that sounds.

Annular boosters are supposed to help atomize the fuel better at idle which helps throttle response on cars with big lopey cams and low vacuum. We have a small cam that will have plenty of vacuum at idle so I think our throttle response will be great.

[Vettezuki]

As I suspected, it crossed my budgetary limit, I was getting kinda excited too. Back to looking for parts for the 174.

[joedls]

I'll be going to the Big 3 Auto Swapmeet in San Diego next week. I'll be looking there. It's an annual swapmeet that usually has alot of good stuff.

[Vettezuki]

I'll be going to the Big 3 Auto Swapmeet in San Diego next week. I'll be looking there. It's an annual swapmeet that usually has alot of good stuff.

Good to know. That kit is just over the line from what I was willing to pay so I'm resisting temptation. . . I'm hoping it skyrockets in price so I don't have to think about it anymore. :smack:

[enkeivette]

Annular boosters are supposed to help atomize the fuel better at idle which helps throttle response on cars with big lopey cams and low vacuum. We have a small cam that will have plenty of vacuum at idle so I think our throttle response will be great.

Not just at idle, across the rpm range. Annulars are... better, unless you have a downleg carb and are trying to justify it to yourself. The only downside to an annular is that they block more airflow than a downleg carb, but even so they more than compensate. :judge: Also, they make more power. Yes they do.

BTW, my point was only that identical motors, both with race demon carbs will need different size jets and air bleeds if one demon is an annular and the other is a downleg.

[enkeivette]

Ben, if the kit you are looking at is being sold on E-Bay, send the guy a reasonable offer. I find that sellers on e-bay don't like to haggle and if you aim too low they'll tell you to get lost, but if you push them within their limits they'll accept your first offer.

[Vettezuki]

Ben, if the kit you are looking at is being sold on E-Bay, send the guy a reasonable offer. I find that sellers on e-bay don't like to haggle and if you aim too low they'll tell you to get lost, but if you push them within their limits they'll accept your first offer.

It's on eBay going through a regular auction. Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380105111563&viewitem=) it is. My limit was $1,100 shipped so $975. This is just north of that now. I'll keep it for reference, if we can't find parts next week, maybe I'll contact the seller and make an offer close to today's auction price for the same thing. :huh:

[enkeivette]

OIC thought it was a buy it now type o deal in an e-bay store.:drink:

[94cobra69ss396]

Not just at idle, across the rpm range. Annulars are... better, unless you have a downleg carb and are trying to justify it to yourself. The only downside to an annular is that they block more airflow than a downleg carb, but even so they more than compensate. :judge: Also, they make more power. Yes they do.

BTW, my point was only that identical motors, both with race demon carbs will need different size jets and air bleeds if one demon is an annular and the other is a downleg.

I do have downleg boosters on the Holley 850dp on the Chevelle but I don't have any issue with throttle response. However, I would love to see how it would respond to a carb with annular boosters. Maybe I'll upgrade the carb when I pull the heads off and port them.

[enkeivette]

I know one guy that did the mod on an 850 double... I think it was. He said it was the best carb mod he's done.

But I don't think you'll ever have a throttle response problem on a 10 second car. Haha.

[BRUTAL64]

Ben:
I talked to Carlos about the 174 parts. He didn't want to scan them, because they are watching everyone at his work. So now we.............:huh:

[Vettezuki]

Ben:
I talked to Carlos about the 174 parts. He didn't want to scan them, because they are watching everyone at his work. So now we.............:huh:

Thanks for your effort. There are at least three options still open, roughly in order.

1 - We luck out at the upcoming Swap Meet and find what we need.
2 - My brother dimensions a new part in Solid Works and my uncle machines it.
3 - Go to a good welder fabricator and have them piece what we have back to working order.

[BRUTAL64]

Thanks for your effort. There are at least three options still open, roughly in order.

1 - We luck out at the upcoming Swap Meet and find what we need.
2 - My brother dimensions a new part in Solid Works and my uncle machines it.
3 - Go to a good welder fabricator and have them piece what we have back to working order.

That's pretty much covers it. I still haven't talked to the truck fab boys yet.

[Vettezuki]

See this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/b-m-forced-induction-super-charger-manifold-302-ford_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a570Q7c66Q3a2 Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3 a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem 180331826722QQitemZ180331826722QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5 fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories) ad.

It looks like the smaller one (144) but, the bearing plate and snout might be the same???

[joedls]

I don't think the endplate is the same, but I'd ask him to measure the shaft housing. I think that will probably work.

[Vettezuki]

I don't think the endplate is the same, but I'd ask him to measure the shaft housing. I think that will probably work.

Bummer.

I found this one (http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/pts/1047823245.html) before, which looks like a 174, but he wants $1,500 for the whole thing (including the extra Chevy intake). I'd seriously consider the turbo for up to about $1,300 at that point. pppssssSSSST.

[94cobra69ss396]

Ben, have you contacted Holley directly? I was on their website checking to see if it would have info on the 144 case compared to the 174 case and found that they sell the bearing plates for their other blowers. I couldn't find any specifics for the 144/174 question I had but did find that the nose assembly is the same. I believe the only difference between the 144 and 174 case was that the 174 was longer which gave it the larger ci.

[Vettezuki]

Ben, have you contacted Holley directly? I was on their website checking to see if it would have info on the 144 case compared to the 174 case and found that they sell the bearing plates for their other blowers. I couldn't find any specifics for the 144/174 question I had but did find that the nose assembly is the same. I believe the only difference between the 144 and 174 case was that the 174 was longer which gave it the larger ci.


I'll call them tomorrow. I just found this blower after 5 today. That's kind of what I was hoping, that the larger displacement was a function of length and the front of the blower was the same. :huh:

[Vettezuki]

Confirmed 144. Let's see what Holley says.

[BRUTAL64]

Confirmed 144. Let's see what Holley says.

Holley tech line 270 781 9741.:bigthumbsup:

[BRUTAL64]

I talked to the Truck 4wd fab boys last night. You can weld cast aluim---BUT it will warp if not done correctly. There is a guy in my shop complex that should be able to do it. BUT!!! he crushed three fingers a day ago. Timing is everything.:(

[Vettezuki]

Holley says the 144 and 174 bearing plate and snout are NOT interchangeable. Unfortunately I was in a hurry so I couldn't ask why, but they said no. :(

[joedls]

Holley says the 144 and 174 bearing plate and snout are NOT interchangeable. Unfortunately I was in a hurry so I couldn't ask why, but they said no. :(


I didn't think they were. Did they say whether the shaft housing was interchangeable?

[Vettezuki]

I didn't think they were. Did they say whether the shaft housing was interchangeable?

I asked if the bearing plate AND snout were interchangeable. They said no. While that answer is perhaps a tiny bit vague and I didn't have time to pry, my guess is they meant, "neither the bearing plate nor the snout are interchangeable." 174s for SBF are goddamn rare to find used. There's only that one in Sun Valley that "looks" like a 174 that I've been able to find. That's after many many hours.

[joedls]

Can you measure the length of the shaft housing for me? Also the length of the shaft itself?

[Vettezuki]

Can you measure the length of the shaft housing for me? Also the length of the shaft itself?

Will do tonight. When you say shaft, you mean the shaft in the housing that actually turns right?

[joedls]

Will do tonight. When you say shaft, you mean the shaft in the housing that actually turns right?

Correct.

[Vettezuki]

Well, I also asked Supercharger USA:

Do you know if the bearing plate and snout from a B&M 144 is the same as a 174?

They Said:

Yes, as long as they are both B&M's

=============
Anyway, Joe I think you said that's Holley (Weiand) unit right? I don't remember seeing any branding on the unit.

[enkeivette]

How much would it be to buy the B&M and have the teflon redone?

[Vettezuki]

How much would it be to buy the B&M and have the teflon redone?

It's a much smaller blower than the one we have. It would probably be auction price plus at least $500 for full rebuild? That's probably over a G, then the call of the Turbo returns. :laugh:

[joedls]

Anyway, Joe I think you said that's Holley (Weiand) unit right? I don't remember seeing any branding on the unit.


Yup

[joedls]

Will do tonight. When you say shaft, you mean the shaft in the housing that actually turns right?


Did you get a chance to measure for me so I have them when I go to the swapmeet?

[Vettezuki]

Did you get a chance to measure for me so I have them when I go to the swapmeet?

Snout = 11-3/4"
Shaft = 12-3/8"

Give or take a tiny bit.

[Vettezuki]

Did you get a chance to measure for me so I have them when I go to the swapmeet?

BTW, if you go on Saturday I'm pretty sure I can go with you and I'll just bring the broken bits. There's a few other things I'd like to hunt for too.

[joedls]

BTW, if you go on Saturday I'm pretty sure I can go with you and I'll just bring the broken bits. There's a few other things I'd like to hunt for too.


I won't be going until Sunday. My son has a performance on Saturday. My father-in-law and two other friends will be going with me, so I have a full vehicle. But I can meet you there if you want.

[Vettezuki]

I won't be going until Sunday. My son has a performance on Saturday. My father-in-law and two other friends will be going with me, so I have a full vehicle. But I can meet you there if you want.

Can I give you a shopping list and a budget? Whatever you get I'll reimburse you for.

[joedls]

Can I give you a shopping list and a budget? Whatever you get I'll reimburse you for.

No problem.

[joedls]

Can I give you a shopping list and a budget? Whatever you get I'll reimburse you for.


You wanna get me that list today sometime. I'll probably be away from the computer all day tomorrow.

[Vettezuki]

You wanna get me that list today sometime. I'll probably be away from the computer all day tomorrow.

http://www.motorgen.com/forum/showthread.php?p=16472#post16472

[BRUTAL64]

Ben;
Per our phone conversation, Welder Tom said he can weld the 174 pieces together. I've seen his work and it is very good.:thumbs_up:

[Vettezuki]

Ben;
Per our phone conversation, Welder Tom said he can weld the 174 pieces together. I've seen his work and it is very good.:thumbs_up:

Well if Skeeter (yes, Skeeter) doesn't call me back witha lead on parts in a day or two, let's do that.

Joe,
I need the other little bits from the blower, including the intake, just so I have them all in on place. Right now, part of the snout collar (that mates to the bearing plate) is still in your possession and is part of what could be welded. Or I can have that part turned on a lathe and a new collar made, then weld that maybe. :huh:

[BRUTAL64]

Well if Skeeter (yes, Skeeter) doesn't call me back witha lead on parts in a day or two, let's do that.

Joe,
I need the other little bits from the blower, including the intake, just so I have them all in on place. Right now, part of the snout collar (that mates to the bearing plate) is still in your possession and is part of what could be welded. Or I can have that part turned on a lathe and a new collar made, then weld that maybe. :huh:



Yea, there are a few maybes here. But, I think (yea, how about that) this is well worth giving a try. Hopefully ole Skeeter will come thru though.:D

[joedls]

Well if Skeeter (yes, Skeeter) doesn't call me back witha lead on parts in a day or two, let's do that.

Joe,
I need the other little bits from the blower, including the intake, just so I have them all in on place. Right now, part of the snout collar (that mates to the bearing plate) is still in your possession and is part of what could be welded. Or I can have that part turned on a lathe and a new collar made, then weld that maybe. :huh:

I'll try to get over to my storage this weekend. I need to get that scatter shield to you anyway.

[Vettezuki]

Ron, I can pick up the solid motor mounts that are intended for that cradle and SBC next week if you're interested.

[94cobra69ss396]

Ron, I can pick up the solid motor mounts that are intended for that cradle and SBC next week if you're interested.

Sure.

[enkeivette]

Can't remember what we're looking for but I figured it couldn't hurt to post it.

http://i16.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/14/da/d5b7_1.JPG

$600 Shipped, looks like it's new from the description.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MP112-Carburated-Supercharger-SBC-SBF_W0QQitemZ160314210552QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors _Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?_trksid=p4506.m20.l11 16

[Vettezuki]

Can't remember what we're looking for but I figured it couldn't hurt to post it.

http://i16.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/14/da/d5b7_1.JPG

$600 Shipped, looks like it's new from the description.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MP112-Carburated-Supercharger-SBC-SBF_W0QQitemZ160314210552QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors _Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?_trksid=p4506.m20.l11 16

I did look at an even consider these early on. But
- it's smaller displacement than what we have
- it'd require a custom intake
- it'd require an offset dive for the Dizzy (they do exist)
- figuring out the rest of the front drive tensioner setup etc.

[BRUTAL64]

I did look at an even consider these early on. But
- it's smaller displacement than what we have
- it'd require a custom intake
- it'd require an offset dive for the Dizzy (they do exist)
- figuring out the rest of the front drive tensioner setup etc.

Dare I say this? Crank trigger would do away with the dizzy.

Before we punt, lets have Tom look at the broken stuff.:rolleyes:

[big2bird]

Can't remember what we're looking for but I figured it couldn't hurt to post it.

http://i16.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/14/da/d5b7_1.JPG

$600 Shipped, looks like it's new from the description.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MP112-Carburated-Supercharger-SBC-SBF_W0QQitemZ160314210552QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors _Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?_trksid=p4506.m20.l11 16

POS:D

[big2bird]

Dare I say this? Crank trigger would do away with the dizzy.



Ahem. You buyin????:judge:

[enkeivette]

POS:D

Ahem. You buyin????:judge:

Ditto.

[BRUTAL64]

Ahem. You buyin????:judge:

No, not buying. It just brought it up. Just throwing it out there. Just letting you know.........................:leaving:

[Vettezuki]

Talked to my brother last night. The School of Design at CSLB is getting a laser scanner and it should be up and running in about 3 weeks. At this time, unless someone can come up with used parts (I'm done looking), we're going to try this process before fabbing the one we have back together.

a- piece back together parts into semblance of whole
b- laser scan parts for dimensioning
c- build SolidWorks model from laser dimensioning
d- convert SolidWorks model to CNC using MasterCam
e- mill new pieces from billet

Normally this would be VERY expensive if you were going to a shop that had these resources. The only thing I'll have to pay for is the billet and actual machine time, maybe a couple hundred bucks.

[94cobra69ss396]

I've been working on the motor mounts this week after work and almost have them done. I just need to re-angle the one on the passenger side because I had the drivers side a 1/4 inch lower than the passenger side when I made the mount so the angle is just slightly off. I just need to cut the base plate and reweld it and then paint them both.

I also had to move the engine forward from where I had it originally because the rack and pinion wouldn't clear the oil pan and the engine was too high. I moved it forward so that the back of the engine is exactly the same distance from the firewall (2.5 in.) as it is in my Cobra. That means I also have to redo the trans crossmember because it is too far back. I'll take some pictures of it tomorrow while I'm working on it and post them up.

Ben, I'm hoping to have everything finished tomorrow night so that I can bring the car back to you on Saturday. Are you going to be around?

[Vettezuki]

. . . Ben, I'm hoping to have everything finished tomorrow night so that I can bring the car back to you on Saturday. Are you going to be around?

Yes. That'd be fantastic. I've gotta leave outta here about 3:45, that's all. Thanks again Ron for your mountain of work.

[94cobra69ss396]

Yes. That'd be fantastic. I've gotta leave outta here about 3:45, that's all. Thanks again Ron for your mountain of work.

Your welcome. Hopefully the engine placement will be good. I also measured the trans on the Cobra because of how far forward the shifter mount on the top loader is compared to the hole in the floor of the Rx-Snake. It turns out the T56 in the Cobra and the top loader are the same distance. So we are just going to have to modify the floor in the car if it is too far off.

[SeanPlunk]

Your welcome. Hopefully the engine placement will be good. I also measured the trans on the Cobra because of how far forward the shifter mount on the top loader is compared to the hole in the floor of the Rx-Snake. It turns out the T56 in the Cobra and the top loader are the same distance. So we are just going to have to modify the floor in the car if it is too far off.

Hey Ron,

Long time no talk. How are you? How is your wife, and how are the girls? I hope all is well! I just wanted to check with you to see if you guys still wanted to go off roading on the 21st? If you still want to go, let me know and I'll add it to the calendar :bigthumbsup:

Sean

[94cobra69ss396]

Hey Ron,

Long time no talk. How are you? How is your wife, and how are the girls? I hope all is well! I just wanted to check with you to see if you guys still wanted to go off roading on the 21st? If you still want to go, let me know and I'll add it to the calendar :bigthumbsup:

Sean

Definately put it on the calendar. Phil and I went out to run TDS last weekend and he ended up breaking his FJ not only once but twice. The first time the crossbrace for the transfer case broke and it happened on the first hill climb. Luckily because it was a huge event there were a lot of vendors there and BFG had a welder. It's a good thing all Phil buys are BFG M/T's for his trucks! It only took us about 1.5 hours to drop the brace, get it welded and put back in. Then later in the afternoon he broke a birfield joint on another hill climb. I like it a lot better when our trucks aren't the ones breaking. :bang:

[SeanPlunk]

Definately put it on the calendar. Phil and I went out to run TDS last weekend and he ended up breaking his FJ not only once but twice. The first time the crossbrace for the transfer case broke and it happened on the first hill climb. Luckily because it was a huge event there were a lot of vendors there and BFG had a welder. It's a good thing all Phil buys are BFG M/T's for his trucks! It only took us about 1.5 hours to drop the brace, get it welded and put back in. Then later in the afternoon he broke a birfield joint on another hill climb. I like it a lot better when our trucks aren't the ones breaking. :bang:

WOW, that's crazy. I can totally see you and Phil welding while on the trail though :D

[94cobra69ss396]

WOW, that's crazy. I can totally see you and Phil welding while on the trail though :D

We didn't even have to weld it. The BFG guy did it.:thumbs_up: Phil did give him a $10 tip though.

[94cobra69ss396]

I'm done! Sorry it took so long. Ben, I'll load the car up tomorrow morning and bring it over. Should be somewhere around noon time.

Here are some pictures of the motor mounts.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0234.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0235.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0236.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0237.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0238.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0241.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0242.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0243.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0244.JPG

[Vettezuki]

I'm done! Sorry it took so long. Ben, I'll load the car up tomorrow morning and bring it over. Should be somewhere around noon time. . .


Fantastic Ron! Don't forget the pan and I'll see you tomorrow. :drink:

[94cobra69ss396]

Fantastic Ron! Don't forget the pan and I'll see you tomorrow. :drink:

I already removed it and it's in the car. I also left the trans bolted up and just used a tie down to hold it up.

[SeanPlunk]

Ron, that's simply incredible work, it looks amazing :hail: :hail: :hail:

[Leedom]

I'm done! Sorry it took so long. Ben, I'll load the car up tomorrow morning and bring it over. Should be somewhere around noon time.

Here are some pictures of the motor mounts.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0234.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0235.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0236.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0237.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0238.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0241.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0242.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0243.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0244.JPG

Great job Ron. I think we owe him a meal or something. If nobody else springs for it I will.

Can you say tight fitting over the Rack!

[94cobra69ss396]

Great job Ron. I think we owe him a meal or something. If nobody else springs for it I will.

Can you say tight fitting over the Rack!

Thanks Adam but no need. I'm just helping out where I can.

I placed the engine as far back and as low as I could with leaving enough room to clear the rack. There is only about a 1/4 inch. I also wanted to make sure that the engine sat low enough that it would clear the stock hood if it had the engine from my Cobra in it. With the position of the engine in the Rx-Snake the hood line is about 1/2 inch closer to the engine than it is in my Cobra. I also mirrored the distance from the bell housing to the firewall to the Cobra so that the clearance between the engine and firewall was the same which was 2 1/2 inches.

[Death Cult Aaronmageddon]

Oh man those are some seriously solid mounts. So my idea for Delrin bushings went out the window. Can we change the name of the car to thumper?

Hey great work though :drink:

[Vettezuki]

Oh man those are some seriously solid mounts. So my idea for Delrin bushings went out the window. Can we change the name of the car to thumper?

Hey great work though :drink:

I had another idea for a project car; a street legal Gen II Camaro, flat black with an Ace of Spades on the side that would naturally play Motorhead on infinite loop. Maybe we could call that Thumper. :smack:

Let's finish this one first though. ;)

[Death Cult Aaronmageddon]

I had another idea for a project car; a street legal Gen II Camaro, flat black with an Ace of Spades on the side that would naturally play Motorhead on infinite loop. Maybe we could call that Thumper. :smack:

Let's finish this one first though. ;)

I'm in... Can the Gen II be my car. It fits....

Who would win in a fight? Lemmy or God? Trick question a$$ hole, Lemmy is God. :smack:

[Vettezuki]

I'm in... Can the Gen II be my car. It fits....

Who would win in a fight? Lemmy or God? Trick question a$$ hole, Lemmy is God. :smack:

Well project cars are a kind of community property until sale, where the proceeds go to the next project car. But I was thinking that at time of sale, any Motorgen user who has put some blood sweat and tears into said project car could buy it for a well below market price, but with a "gentlemen's agreement". But we'll see, that's a ways off still.

Anywho, Jim Norton (comedian) has some pretty funny stories about Lemmy. Apparently the guy lives of speed and "barely legal" poo-nanny.

[enkeivette]

I'm done! Sorry it took so long. Ben, I'll load the car up tomorrow morning and bring it over. Should be somewhere around noon time.

Here are some pictures of the motor mounts.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0234.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0235.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0236.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0237.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0238.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0241.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0242.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0243.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0244.JPG

:nuts:

[Death Cult Aaronmageddon]

I don't know if I said it earlier but that is some seriously good work. Very very nice. :)

[BRUTAL64]

I had another idea for a project car; a street legal Gen II Camaro, flat black with an Ace of Spades on the side that would naturally play Motorhead on infinite loop. Maybe we could call that Thumper. :smack:

Let's finish this one first though. ;)

:rolling::rolling::rolling::rolling::censored:

I really like the second gen "F" body stuff. Great cars to work with. Strong and easy to make handle up to 1G. Can get to 1.25g with more work. So much aftermarket stuff................plus all the WS6 from the T/A.

I've built 4--2 of them for myself.

[BRUTAL64]

I might be gone for awhile. They are changing computers here at work.:(

[BRUTAL64]

http://www.superchargerusa.com/b&m.htm

Have you tried these guys?

Have I already asked this?

[Vettezuki]

http://www.superchargerusa.com/b&m.htm

Have you tried these guys?

Have I already asked this?

Yes I tried them. They said send it in and they'll me a quote. Boooh. We're going to laser it and mill our own from billet. . . I think.

[BRUTAL64]

Yes I tried them. They said send it in and they'll me a quote. Boooh. We're going to laser it and mill our own from billet. . . I think.

OK. Just lookin out.:drink:

[big2bird]

Yes I tried them. They said send it in and they'll me a quote. Boooh. We're going to laser it and mill our own from billet. . . I think.

Add an RX Snake logo to the front. What the hell.:hail:

[Vettezuki]

Add an RX Snake logo to the front. What the hell.:hail:

On our billet piece? Good idea. It really wouldn't be much more mill time and sure as heck would add a "wow" factor.

[Vettezuki]

OK. Just lookin out.:drink:

Word. You never know when I (we) might have missed an opportunity.

[st-evo-9*corn fed-8urvet*]

damn those are some i dont give a fuck about in car vibration mounts haha just the way it should be from the factory haha!

looks like this car is coming along pretty nicely!

[big2bird]

Hey Ben,
I have a good used radiator out of John's C-5. Think that would work/fit? Let me know. You can have it.:nuts:

[BRUTAL64]

Hey Ben,
I have a good used radiator out of John's C-5. Think that would work/fit? Let me know. You can have it.:nuts:

You are just a wonderful guy!:bigthumbsup:

[Vettezuki]

Hey Ben,
I have a good used radiator out of John's C-5. Think that would work/fit? Let me know. You can have it.:nuts:

By golly let's take a look see. I can pick it up or you can drop it off whenever is convenient for you. Many thanks to you and John.

[big2bird]

By golly let's take a look see. I can pick it up or you can drop it off whenever is convenient for you. Many thanks to you and John.

I'm stuck here all day. If you can swing by, that would be great. If you can wait, I might be able to come by there this weekend.

[Vettezuki]

I'm stuck here all day. If you can swing by, that would be great. If you can wait, I might be able to come by there this weekend.

I'll be doing some body work with my brother tonight. We'll work it out one way or another this weekend. :bigthumbsup:

[Vettezuki]

Pulled the internals with Ron on Monday in preparation for cutting valve reliefs, and re-balancing. I'll need to get a flywheel first. This is just in a holding pattern at the moment while I keep other things rolling and pool some cash.

[BRUTAL64]

Pulled the internals with Ron on Monday in preparation for cutting valve reliefs, and re-balancing. I'll need to get a flywheel first. This is just in a holding pattern at the moment while I keep other things rolling and pool some cash.

Do you need a fund raiser?:drink:

[Vettezuki]

Do you need a fund raiser?:drink:

Yeah maybe. Though your idea of a fund raiser worries me a lil' bit. Too bad CI doesn't do Ford or maybe we could propose a little sponsorship.

[BRUTAL64]

Yeah maybe. Though your idea of a fund raiser worries me a lil' bit. Too bad CI doesn't do Ford or maybe we could propose a little sponsorship.

If you do a 2gen Camaro next, I can get you discounts.:thumbs_up:

I'm talking Fund Raiser/Party. Hell, if 100 people put in $20.00 --- You would have........................$75.00.:smack:

[Vettezuki]

If you do a 2gen Camaro next, I can get you discounts.:thumbs_up:

I'm talking Fund Raiser/Party. Hell, if 100 people put in $20.00 --- You would have........................$75.00.:smack:

You must work for the government part time. :smack: It's a great idea, although it's difficult to get 100 people to show up anywhere without free beer. Then to get them part with $20 would be the next challenge. ;) Most would come, drink $5 in beer and leave a $3 donation. :smack:

A 2nd Gen Camaro is high on the list for future projects. But I got a tingle in my pants to do an old 240z with 2JZ. :drive: We'll see. One at a time.

[BRUTAL64]

You must work for the government part time. :smack: It's a great idea, although it's difficult to get 100 people to show up anywhere without free beer. Then to get them part with $20 would be the next challenge. ;) Most would come, drink $5 in beer and leave a $3 donation. :smack:

A 2nd Gen Camaro is high on the list for future projects. But I got a tingle in my pants to do an old 240z with 2JZ. :drive: We'll see. One at a time.

Think WET T-shirt contest.:drink:

[BRUTAL64]

About the 240Z. I just remembered a girl I was "seeing" tried to GIVE me a 240Z without engine and trans. This was in 1996. I had EVERYTHIING laying about to build a V8 240Z. I've always wanted to do it.

Now that would make a KILLER road car.:drink:

[Vettezuki]

About the 240Z. I just remembered a girl I was "seeing" tried to GIVE me a 240Z without engine and trans. This was in 1996. I had EVERYTHIING laying about to build a V8 240Z. I've always wanted to do it.

Now that would make a KILLER road car.:drink:

Yes it would. Do you have some sort of psychological opposition to putting a gnarly and proper Turbo I6 in one, a la the great 2JZGTTE. I even have a name already 240JZ. :smack:

[big2bird]

About the 240Z. I just remembered a girl I was "seeing" tried to GIVE me a 240Z without engine and trans. This was in 1996. I had EVERYTHIING laying about to build a V8 240Z. I've always wanted to do it.

Now that would make a KILLER road car.:drink:

The problem with that is the same as in A-H 3000's, Jags, and the such is the balance. Too much weight up front.;)

[BRUTAL64]

The problem with that is the same as in A-H 3000's, Jags, and the such is the balance. Too much weight up front.;)

Yea, but you could do killer donuts.:smack:


I drove one in the early eighties. It was a small block (327?) with a 280z rear end. It felt pretty balanced.:thumbs_up:

[BRUTAL64]

Yes it would. Do you have some sort of psychological opposition to putting a gnarly and proper Turbo I6 in one, a la the great 2JZGTTE. I even have a name already 240JZ. :smack:

You and turbos:smack:. Inline six? Ok, but putting in the ole American V8 is so...........so..............."American".:judge:


Back in the 70s I finished a 56 AH with a 301 Chevy, PG and 67 Corvette rear for a girlfriend. What a rocket ship. It was just as fast (I'm sure it was faster, but a girl drove it) as my friend's 70 LT1 corvette.:drink:

[joedls]

Any update on fixing the blower? I located the crank spacer, pulley, and the belt.

[Vettezuki]

Any update on fixing the blower? I located the crank spacer, pulley, and the belt.

My brother's school recently aquired a laser scaner. They're in the process of setting it up. If it works, we'll be able to CNC a new front bearing plate "relatively" easily. If that doesn't work out, the fall back is Jeff's budy who is a world class welder/fabricator; he can piece it back together. All we'd have to do in that case is reindex the snout holes to bearing plate. In either case we'll have to turn the snout and make a press fit ring. Anyway, just waiting for word back from my brother.

[Vettezuki]

Oky doky, the staff at the university apparently bypassed the minor detail of control software for the laser scanner, so it won't be operational til the fall. Balls to that, so as soon as I sell some plasma, we'll be handing it off to bird's welder pal for refabrication. May the force be with us.

[enkeivette]

You and turbos:smack:. Inline six? Ok, but putting in the ole American V8 is so...........so..............."American".:judge:


Back in the 70s I finished a 56 AH with a 301 Chevy, PG and 67 Corvette rear for a girlfriend. What a rocket ship. It was just as fast (I'm sure it was faster, but a girl drove it) as my friend's 70 LT1 corvette.:drink:

My friend has a fresh fully forged 250 I6 in his garage for his 66 stang. Cyl head is on the way after it gets ported and soon after a Garrett turbo.

[BRUTAL64]

My friend has a fresh fully forged 250 I6 in his garage for his 66 stang. Cyl head is on the way after it gets ported and soon after a Garrett turbo.

Just think what that vehicle would do with same amount of money put into a 302. Yep, a whole LOT faster.:thumbs_up:

[enkeivette]

Just think what that vehicle would do with same amount of money put into a 302. Yep, a whole LOT faster.:thumbs_up:

AGREED

You won't see any funky inline motors under Cambria's hood. Now if I get my hands on a 787b, no promises.

[Vettezuki]

AGREED

You won't see any funky inline motors under Cambria's hood. Now if I get my hands on a 787b, no promises.


Do you mean you'd put a funky inline under the hood of a 787b or the R26b from the 787 in Cambria?

[BRUTAL64]

Do you mean you'd put a funky inline under the hood of a 787b or the R26b from the 787 in Cambria?

"787b or the R26b from the 787" what you using Jet engines???:rolling:

[enkeivette]

I have piston ring pliers btw, before you go out and buy some.

[big2bird]

The blower is now welded up, and ready to be re-machined. Now, to have Doug help me convince John M. to do the work.:leaving:

[Vettezuki]

The blower is now welded up, and ready to be re-machined. Now, to have Doug help me convince John M. to do the work.:leaving:


Word bird! That's awesome. Just have Doug use his special East Coast charms on John. . .

Also, I'll extend the same offer to John as to anyone doing substantial and/or skilled work. If he can drive a potential 10second car and donates "value in kind" to the project, he can drive it when complete. (Yes, Ron, it will be completed :smack:)

[big2bird]

Word bird! That's awesome. Just have Doug use his special East Coast charms on John. . .

Also, I'll extend the same offer to John as to anyone doing substantial and/or skilled work. If he can drive a potential 10second car and donates "value in kind" to the project, he can drive it when complete. (Yes, Ron, it will be completed :smack:)

Doug, Glen, and TimAT all looked at it tonight. We all agree the work is exquisite, and believe it will live again. I'll bring it by Nicks tomarrow.

[Vettezuki]

Doug, Glen, and TimAT all looked at it tonight. We all agree the work is exquisite, and believe it will live again. I'll bring it by Nicks tomarrow.


Can't wait. :hail: Wonder if I took pictures of the damn thing before he fixed her up.

[BRUTAL64]

Can't wait. :hail: Wonder if I took pictures of the damn thing before he fixed her up.

Yes, a VERY FINE job there. Should work out good for the project.:bigthumbsup:

[Vettezuki]

Today we pressed out the shaft from the snout and began some machining of the snout and bearing plate. The shaft itself was fine but discovered that the axle the shaft spins on was bent like a mofo. (Holy Crap Joe). So they'll have to make a new one from scratch. Also the plate was not even close to flat so they had to machine it down about 1/16th in total. That we can make up with a shim and an extra gasket, if it turns out there isn't enough clearance between the plate and gears.

But all in all, it looks like it's going to work. The shop is very busy, so my cousin will work it in on the side as he can. Maybe a couple weeks.

[Vettezuki]

Dropped off the pistons (w/ rods attached), crank, balancer, and flywheel. The pistons need to be cut for the larger valves in the new heads and the whole assembly needs to be balanced after the cutting.

Danger Will Robinson. Troy from FPS sort of grimaced when I showed him the pistons. They're press-on and he warned that no matter how careful they are, occasionally one cracks when separating the rod.

[BRUTAL64]

I have NEVER cracked a piston when pressing the pins out. Yes, it's possible but out of hundreds I did -never had one crack. It's all in the support of the piston.:drink:

[Vettezuki]

Hey Ron, or anyone, do you know anything about fuel cell rules? I decided that in the name of safety we'd replace the stock stamped metal fuel tank with a smaller foam filled cell (pretty cheap really). But are there any restrictions you can think of about how and where they're mounted etc.?

[94cobra69ss396]

1.4 FUEL SYSTEM All fuel tank filler necks located inside trunk must have filler neck vented to outside of body. Vented caps prohibited. All batteries, fuel lines, fuel pumps or filler necks located inside trunk require complete bulkhead of at least .024-inch (.6 mm) steel or .032 (.8 mm) aluminum to isolate driver compartment from trunk. Fuel lines must be located outside driver compartment. Fuel tanks must be within the confines of the body.

[Vettezuki]

1.4 FUEL SYSTEM All fuel tank filler necks located inside trunk must have filler neck vented to outside of body. Vented caps prohibited. All batteries, fuel lines, fuel pumps or filler necks located inside trunk require complete bulkhead of at least .024-inch (.6 mm) steel or .032 (.8 mm) aluminum to isolate driver compartment from trunk. Fuel lines must be located outside driver compartment. Fuel tanks must be within the confines of the body.

Got it. Sounds like I can just get a fuel cell and strap it in the stock location.

Re: Battery
I have a legit battery box, but didn't releaize that a bulkhead was required between the back compartment and the front to rear mount the battery. Mmmm. . .

[94cobra69ss396]

Got it. Sounds like I can just get a fuel cell and strap it in the stock location.

Re: Battery
I have a legit battery box, but didn't releaize that a bulkhead was required between the back compartment and the front to rear mount the battery. Mmmm. . .

I'm not sure what has to be done with the fuel cell. I know it has to be inside the car but I'm not sure what has to be done with the hatch area. I'll ask the next time I go to the track.

With the battery you don't have to have a bulk head as long as there is a vent tube on the box to the outside of the car. There are only a couple of companies that make NHRA legal boxes. One being Taylor which is what I have in the Chevelle and the Cobra. It also has to be mounted so that one of the hold down bolts goes the the frame or subframe.

[94cobra69ss396]

Oh, and if it is in the back we have to have an external shut off switch that is clearly marked.

[Vettezuki]

Picked up the internals today.

Ron, I decided to get another set of rings (while we're at it). Can I drop off the pistons and new rings with you tomorrow at the cruise and you can install the rings at your leisure in preparation for assembling the bottom end?

[94cobra69ss396]

What rings are they and are they file fit rings? Did you find out what the ring manufacturer recommends for ring gaps with a blower? We need to check the end gaps before we install them on the pistons.

[Vettezuki]

What rings are they and are they file fit rings?

They are these (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SLP-E-251K/).

Did you find out what the ring manufacturer recommends for ring gaps with a blower? We need to check the end gaps before we install them on the pistons.

No, but the pistons have the same rings on as when we removed them from the engine. I don't know if Joe had the engine built with the blower or added it later. Joe?

[94cobra69ss396]

Did you get this exact part number which is for a 4.000 bore? Wasn't the block bored .030? If so, these are the wrong size. If you have the correct size rings the next step is to check the end gaps which you do by installing the rings in the block and use a feeler gauge. Considering the low boost we'll be running and the fact that this will be a drag race engine I would set the top ring around .020-.022 and the second ring around .012-.014. What do you think Glenn?

Make sure you have the correct rings first and then we can arrange a night for me to come over and we'll check the rings and start building the short block.

[Vettezuki]

Did you get this exact part number which is for a 4.000 bore? That's a summit number, but it looks like it's the same. The block is .030 over and I did say to Troy it was .030 over, but there's nothing on the package that states the bore size. :huh:

Considering the low boost we'll be running and the fact that this will be a drag race engine I would set the top ring around .020-.022 and the second ring around .012-.014. What do you think Glenn?

I would say RX-Snake is primarily a drag type car, but will see some slap-dick AutoX and maybe Drift, both of which are relatively short periods, but considerably longer than drag. It won't likely see anything longer than that.

Make sure you have the correct rings first and then we can arrange a night for me to come over and we'll check the rings and start building the short block.

Word.

[94cobra69ss396]

That's a summit number, but it looks like it's the same. The block is .030 over and I did say to Troy it was .030 over, but there's nothing on the package that states the bore size. :huh:

Open one of the boxes and install the top ring in the block. Then check the end gap. Then we'll know if they are the correct size.

[Vettezuki]

Open one of the boxes and install the top ring in the block. Then check the end gap. Then we'll know if they are the correct size.

Using my calipers, not feeler gauges (don't have), it measures 0.105" (very slightly more than a 10th of an inch, so I'mma guess'n those are for the 4.0" bore, not 30 over.

[94cobra69ss396]

Using my calipers, not feeler gauges (don't have), it measures 0.105" (very slightly more than a 10th of an inch, so I'mma guess'n those are for the 4.0" bore, not 30 over.

Looks like it. They were probably fairly easy to push down into the cylinder as well, correct?

[Vettezuki]

Looks like it. They were probably fairly easy to push down into the cylinder as well, correct?

I wouldn't say easy. They're certainly firmly pressed against the cylinder wall with pressure, but the gap is plenty big, can't imagine that's appropriate for containing compression.

[94cobra69ss396]

I'll be leaving here in about 15 minutes.

[Vettezuki]

I'll be leaving here in about 15 minutes.

See you at 6:00.

[94cobra69ss396]

Well Ben and I honed the block tonight and then installed new main bearings along with the crank. Then we checked the end gap of the new rings which were .019 on the top ring and .015 on the second ring. We installed the new rings as well as new rod bearings and then installed all the pistons.

[Vettezuki]

Tonight was a very productive and fun night working with Ron. In addition to working on the motor, I gave him a ride in the Vette and he gave me a ride in the Cobra. Good times.

I actually got a fair bit of good video. Here's a little for now. I'm behind on a bunch of other video, but I'll get back to it.


Motorgen - Videos - RX-Snake July 15, 2010 - Honing@@AMEPARAM@@value="file=/vid/data/547/Honing.flv&@@AMEPARAM@@547@@AMEPARAM@@Honing.flv


I'll cut this to some porn music later for enkei.


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PICS

Ron searches for something.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/771/RX-Snake_10-07-15_01.jpg

Hours later, he's pretty sure he knows what it is.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/771/RX-Snake_10-07-15_11.jpg

Ron studied from his father how to drop bearings. So he's pretty good at it. ;)

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/771/RX-Snake_10-07-15_07.jpg

He's also good at putting them in.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/771/RX-Snake_10-07-15_09.jpg


Block.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/771/RX-Snake_10-07-15_02.jpg

[big2bird]

I am quite sure that is the first time I ever saw someone hone a cylinder dry.

[Shaolin Crane]

I am quite sure that is the first time I ever saw someone hone a cylinder dry.

Nah we do it to the meters here at hork, they work with the same type of cylinder and piston design as an engine, but those need to move fluid and meter them accurately, so i know it works

[94cobra69ss396]

That's the only way I've ever seen it done. Which was only once when my dad did it to the 396 that was in my Chevelle.

Bird, what are the down sides if it's dry?

[Shaolin Crane]

That's the only way I've ever seen it done. Which was only once when my dad did it to the 396 that was in my Chevelle.

Bird, what are the down sides if it's dry?

IIRC deeper scoring of the piston wall, inconsistent hone lines, stuff of that nature.

[94cobra69ss396]

IIRC deeper scoring of the piston wall, inconsistent hone lines, stuff of that nature.

You watched the video, how did the crosshatch look? Do you think we'll have an issue with it?

[Shaolin Crane]

You watched the video, how did the crosshatch look? Do you think we'll have an issue with it?
Looked like a good 30* angle, i dont think there will be any problems, basically you want to see long diamond shapes, <> , similar to that

[94cobra69ss396]

Whew, Bird had me nervous! That's the first time I've ever honed a block. Every engine I've ever built had beened honed by the machine shop. The only time I saw a hone done was when my dad cleaned up the cylinder in my 396 back in 1987.

[Shaolin Crane]

you can get a better hone using cutting fluid and what not, but on a SBF you'll be fine

[Vettezuki]

A big part of this project is about the learning, so it's all good. Now, if we ruined the block I might have felt a little differently. :smack:

[Shaolin Crane]

A big part of this project is about the learning, so it's all good. Now, if we ruined the block I might have felt a little differently. :smack:

lol well if that happened i have a few layin around that you could have used :) and if you guys need, i have a ring depressor in my truck ive never used.

[94cobra69ss396]

lol well if that happened i have a few layin around that you could have used :) and if you guys need, i have a ring depressor in my truck ive never used.

I brought mine last night and we already installed all the pistons.

[Shaolin Crane]

I brought mine last night and we already installed all the pistons.

oh well

[big2bird]

Standard practise for finish honing/glaze breaking would be a ball hone soaked in ATF of a light motor oil.
As long as you guys washed the block first with warm, soapy water before final assembly, you should be okay. This VITAL step removes any iron particles and abrasive material left over from the honing process.

[94cobra69ss396]

We sprayed each down with carb cleaner and wiped them down with a towel. Then gave them an oil bath before installing the pistons.

[Shaolin Crane]

We sprayed each down with carb cleaner and wiped them down with a towel. Then gave them an oil bath before installing the pistons.

Perfect, you'll be fine

[94cobra69ss396]

Perfect, you'll be fine

Thanks. This is the same way they clean out the blocks at my brothers shop when they deglaze an engine that's still in a vehicle.

[Shaolin Crane]

Thanks. This is the same way they clean out the blocks at my brothers shop when they deglaze an engine that's still in a vehicle.

Thats what we do when we assemble the meters

[94cobra69ss396]

I was talking about it with him on Saturday. He said the same thing you did about the dry hone. He said he's seen guys dry hone before and that it shouldn't be an issue but that he recommends using oil especially if the crank is still in the block because it helps keep the stone material clumped together so it cleans up better. Since we didn't have the crank in the block he said it isn't a big concern.

[Shaolin Crane]

I was talking about it with him on Saturday. He said the same thing you did about the dry hone. He said he's seen guys dry hone before and that it shouldn't be an issue but that he recommends using oil especially if the crank is still in the block because it helps keep the stone material clumped together so it cleans up better. Since we didn't have the crank in the block he said it isn't a big concern.

yep yep, btw i dont recommend doing that with the crank still installed

[Vettezuki]

Here's some time lapse from July 15, assembling the bottom end. That was a lot of fun.


Motorgen - Videos - RX-Snake July 15, 2010 Time Lapse Assembly@@AMEPARAM@@value="file=/vid/data/531/TimeLapseAssembly.flv&@@AMEPARAM@@531@@AMEPARAM@@TimeLapseAssembly.flv

[Shaolin Crane]

Nice, were the main caps installed in the original orientation?

[94cobra69ss396]

Of course. It's easy on a SBF because Ford numbers them and has an arrow pointing to the front. The only hiccup we had during the assembly was when Ben installed the number 5 piston in cylinder number 7 thinking SBC instead of SBF. I relized it when I went to put the cap on so we pulled it back out and installed it in the correct cylinder.

[Shaolin Crane]

Of course. It's easy on a SBF because Ford numbers them and has an arrow pointing to the front. The only hiccup we had during the assembly was when Ben installed the number 5 piston in cylinder number 7 thinking SBC instead of SBF. I relized it when I went to put the cap on so we pulled it back out and installed it in the correct cylinder.

Hmmm one of the H.O. blocks i had here didnt have any numbers on them.

[94cobra69ss396]

Hmmm one of the H.O. blocks i had here didnt have any numbers on them.

Are you talking about the main caps or the rods? I've had 3 different H.O. blocks and all 3 had the mains and the rods numbered from the factory.

[Shaolin Crane]

Are you talking about the main caps or the rods? I've had 3 different H.O. blocks and all 3 had the mains and the rods numbered from the factory.

main caps, one of the blocks didnt have numbers on it

[94cobra69ss396]

main caps, one of them didnt have numbers on it

I think the only one that wasn't numbered was the rear but it is much wider than the other so it's obvious where it goes.

[Shaolin Crane]

I think the only one that wasn't numbered was the rear but it is much wider than the other so it's obvious where it goes.

hmmm maybe i didnt pay enough attention to it when i gave it away

[Vettezuki]

I think the only one that wasn't numbered was the rear but it is much wider than the other so it's obvious where it goes.

There's also that process of elimination thing.

[Vettezuki]

Picked up a seal kit for the blower for joedls today. Yes this is on the back burner, but I nibble at the edges from time to time. Thanks Joe!

[enkeivette]

Rocker stud girdles, Ive bent my rocker studs just dicking around town. Some cheap AL ebay ones will do the trick