RX-Snake: Engine Related

[BRUTAL64]

I'm "half" excited.:D But I'm there.:thumbs_up:

I see where Ben is going with this.


First question; will the SBF need a rear sump pan or a front sump pan in the RX7?:drink:


After 2:00 pm today I won't be here till Sat around 9 or 10 am.

[BRUTAL64]

I really like where this is going. Being a FORD guy I like it. Mazda will give a cool factor the Mustang II would not.:)


I say this, we leave Joe's engine as is with blower. I'm betting there is plenty of power just as is. Build the vehicle around that combo. A 2500 lb vehicle is going to run very strong with Joe's combo. Just throwing it out there.:D


What type of speed/et are we shooting for???

I'm thinking an 11 second with the SBF.:thumbs_up:

[94cobra69ss396]

Looks like on a gen 1 the stock dual sump pan (Fox body style) will fit if we remove the cross member and turn it 180. Here's the info.

"...1st gen. Basic Kit for 289-302-351W Fords...
This new addition allows bolt-in installation of the lite-weight 5.0, requires NO crossmember modification, yet still fits under the hood !!! The secret is simply un-bolting the stock front crossmember (6 bolts), then REVERSING it 180 degrees and re-installing it. This causes the center portion that interferes with the oil pan to swing to the rear instead of the front, allowing a stock double sump late Mustang 5.0 pan to straddle both the crossmember AND steering linkage!!! A short oil filter (or 90 degree adapter) is required, but the low placement buys you a lot of room under the hood for air cleaners and such. Lots of room for headers too. With this kit, the EFI manifold from the Mustang 5.0 will clear the stock 1st gen RX-7 hood."

I found it at http://www.grannysspeedshop.com/

[Vettezuki]

I really like where this is going. Being a FORD guy I like it. Mazda will give a cool factor the Mustang II would not.:)

I agree, it's also keeping in the spirit of the site by mixing things up a little. Heck, Mazda's owned by Ford so I factored that little quirk too.


I say this, we leave Joe's engine as is with blower. I'm betting there is plenty of power just as is. Build the vehicle around that combo. A 2500 lb vehicle is going to run very strong with Joe's combo. Just throwing it out there.:D


What type of speed/et are we shooting for???

I'm thinking an 11 second with the SBF.:thumbs_up:

I think it makes obvious sense to stick with Joe's 174, which apparently only needs some parts to be repaired. Wonder if it can be cost effectively improved during repair?

If we're going to build a purpose built car, even if it's dirt cheap, I think it makes sense to target the mid 11s or faster. This, however, means we'll need to cage it, which probably ain't such a bad idea for safety and all.

[BRUTAL64]

I think it makes obvious sense to stick with Joe's 174, which apparently only needs some parts to be repaired. Wonder if it can be cost effectively improved during repair?

If we're going to build a purpose built car, even if it's dirt cheap, I think it makes sense to target the mid 11s or faster. This, however, means we'll need to cage it, which probably ain't such a bad idea for safety and all.

Hell, the basic 174 is going to be plenty of boost. We're going for a 2,500 lbs or less vehicle. Traction is going to be a BIG problem. We are in "Old Cobra" thinking here.:judge:

Yes, some sort of cage is going to be needed. :):drink:

We need a name for this--- Like Mazbra or something simular?? "Cobza"---you get the idea.

[joedls]

This, however, means we'll need to cage it, which probably ain't such a bad idea for safety and all.

Don't need a full cage, just a rollbar, if it's quicker than 11.50. Only need a cage once you get in the 9s. Of course, I'm assuming it's not a convertible. I don't think I ever remember seeing a convertible RX7, but I really am not very familiar with them.

I'll look into repairing the blower. It might take some swap meet trips. I tried to source the parts I needed shortly after my crash and didn't have alot of luck.

[joedls]

Hell, the basic 174 is going to be plenty of boost. We're going for a 2,500 lbs or less vehicle. Traction is going to be a BIG problem. We are in "Old Cobra" thinking here.:judge:

Yes, some sort cage is going to be needed. :):drink:


Yeah, the blower was reconditioned between the time I pulled the 302 and switched to the 347. It was making ~8PSI on the 347, then I switched pullies and increased it to ~12 PSI. I'll dig through my stuff to see if I can find the larger pulley. We should probably start off with the 8 PSI or we would probably need to replace the head gaskets with MLS.

[Vettezuki]

Don't need a full cage, just a rollbar, if it's quicker than 11.50. Only need a cage once you get in the 9s. Of course, I'm assuming it's not a convertible. I don't think I ever remember seeing a convertible RX7, but I really am not very familiar with them.

I'll look into repairing the blower. It might take some swap meet trips. I tried to source the parts I needed shortly after my crash and didn't have alot of luck.

There were Convertible RXs, but we'll be getting a coupe for sure.

I remember now, a 4 point if faster than 11.5 and 6 point if faster than 10, right. I don't see us running 9s:judge:, but faster than 11.5 is distinctly possible and a good goal I think.


Keep us posted on the blower and if it seems like too much of a pain. I have been curious to build a ghetto turbo car, and some of those turbos off the old GM diesels are very cheap. But that would certainly add some complexity to the system.

[94cobra69ss396]

What all is done to the engine?

[big2bird]

Don't need a full cage, just a rollbar, if it's quicker than 11.50. Only need a cage once you get in the 9s.

Need and SHOULD are two different things. A cage would add strength also, especially if you gut the doors, lexan the windshield, yada yada. If you installed one first, it would keep everything square to the world before you take the sawz all to it. (IMHO):drink:

[Vettezuki]

Hell, the basic 174 is going to be plenty of boost. We're going for a 2,500 lbs or less vehicle. Traction is going to be a BIG problem. We are in "Old Cobra" thinking here.:judge:

Yes, some sort of cage is going to be needed. :):drink:

We need a name for this--- Like Mazbra or something simular?? "Cobza"---you get the idea.


We can run VERY sticky rubber at the track, and if we really want to optimize for straight line we can set up the suspension for it as well. How much we want to optimize for straightline performance, or whatever, is another question.

I'll think of some names after I've had a few later on tonight. Look out.

[joedls]

What all is done to the engine?

Forged 302 bored .030 over, custom grind roller cam specifically for blower, reconditioned E6 iron heads with dual springs and 1.6 roller rockers.

Here's a link to what was done on the heads.http://motorgen.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12124&postcount=98

[st-evo-9*corn fed-8urvet*]

is this thing getting blown or turbo'd ?? also im guessing its staying carb not fuel injected?

also how is the fuel system gonna be set up? if you guys wanna save weight you can toss out the stock tank and make a 5 gal fuel cell.

also wat fuel are u guys using i think that if you guys go forced induction then u gotta go 100oct, c16 or e85

[joedls]

is this thing getting blown or turbo'd ?? also im guessing its staying carb not fuel injected?

also how is the fuel system gonna be set up? if you guys wanna save weight you can toss out the stock tank and make a 5 gal fuel cell.

also wat fuel are u guys using i think that if you guys go forced induction then u gotta go 100oct, c16 or e85

I ran this blower on my 347 with 91 octane and water/methanol injection @ 12 PSI. I first ran it @ 8 PSI without water/methanol. It ran fine with 22 degrees of spark @ 8 PSI.

[joedls]

Not likely with a blower! :D But hey, that's what a sawzall is for.





Depends on how much room is under that hood. This blower comes with a low profile intake manifold. I had to put on a very small scoop to fit it under the 68 Mustang hood. It was probably 1.5" too high to fit under the hood.

[Vettezuki]

is this thing getting blown or turbo'd ??

blown if if the Holley can be made to work. Otherwise, enkeivette and I are sort interested in some turbo time.

also im guessing its staying carb not fuel injected?

Probably stay carbed, especially if it's blown. But if we end up doing a turbo, especially if we go with E85 as a fuel type, then maybe throttle body injection, but that's as far as we'd go I think. Easiest is to stay carbed and blow it. But seeing what you've been able to do with E85 and turbos makes me warm and fuzzy inside.

also how is the fuel system gonna be set up? if you guys wanna save weight you can toss out the stock tank and make a 5 gal fuel cell.

This will be a function of just how purpose built we want to go. But we can decide this rather later.

also wat fuel are u guys using i think that if you guys go forced induction then u gotta go 100oct, c16 or e85

Don't have to, but it sure opens some other boost-a-riffic options.

[Vettezuki]

I ran this blower on my 347 with 91 octane and water/methanol injection @ 12 PSI. I first ran it @ 8 PSI without water/methanol. It ran fine with 22 degrees of spark @ 8 PSI.

This is good to know. If the blower doesn't work out for lack of parts or whatever, corn fed has some experience getting stupid power out of a turbo with E85, which has a certain "cool" factor going for it. However, I think that'd mean we'd have to consider at least TB injection to flow enough fuel.

[enkeivette]

And if we stay carbed we just need a Bosch O2 sensor and we can tune it with my LM2. Is it a Holley carb? Holley carbs are cake to tune.

[joedls]

PHASE 1 (January - February)
- - Transport SBF, Trans, and Blower to Vettezuki's house for later installation




Where do you live? PM me your # and we can make arrangements to get the engine & tranny over to you next week, maybe.

Do you have a hoist to lift the engine out of the back of my truck once I get there?

[Vettezuki]

Where do you live? PM me your # and we can make arrangements to get the engine & tranny over to you next week, maybe.

Do you have a hoist to lift the engine out of the back of my truck once I get there?

I do have a hoist, just need to put it back together. I'm more than happy to come pick it up from you at your convenience. I'll PM you with my info.

[joedls]

I do have a hoist, just need to put it back together. I'm more than happy to come pick it up from you at your convenience. I'll PM you with my info.


Thanks, I'll call you this weekend. Either way, I'd be glad to haul them to your place or you can pick it up. They are stored at my place of business, here by Angel Stadium, so it's not that far from you.

[Vettezuki]

Just picked up the engine and trans from joedls. Also completed transfer of ownership. I was relieved to find there were no problems with the title and it went smooth as pie. The gal at AAA said she had heard of something like the show car regsitration (easier than the custom built), but wasn't sure because AAA doesn't handle that.

[Vettezuki]

BRUTAL64, when can you receive the heads? Also, did you say you were in need of something you don't have in order to do a top flight job on them? If so, what is it.

[Vettezuki]

joedls, what do you need to repair the 174? Are their repair kits? Is there a way we can help to get you what you need?

[joedls]

joedls, what do you need to repair the 174? Are their repair kits? Is there a way we can help to get you what you need?

I need the shaft housing and an end plate. I'm pretty sure the shaft housing can be purchased, but I haven't been able to find an end plate. That's why I said we might need to go to some swap meets. Anyone wanna join me at the next Pomona and Long Beach swap meets? Pomona is 1/18 and Long Beach is 1/11 & 2/8. I'm not sure I can make 1/11, but I could make 2/8.

[big2bird]

joedls, what do you need to repair the 174? Are their repair kits? Is there a way we can help to get you what you need?

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=WND%2D77%2D174FSB%2D1&view=4096&N=700+311201+4294840126

[BRUTAL64]

BRUTAL64, when can you receive the heads? Also, did you say you were in need of something you don't have in order to do a top flight job on them? If so, what is it.


What I need is a seat grinder and a valve grinder. I sold both mine 10 years ago.:o


You say top flight??? Hell, I thought you wanted them "ported" not "pretty".:D

[big2bird]

What I need is a seat grinder and a valve grinder. I sold both mine 10 years ago.:o


You say top flight??? Hell, I thought you wanted them "ported" not "pretty".:D

I gota guy in Placentia that is pretty cheap. He did the heads on one of Leno's duesenbergs, so he is good too.

[big2bird]

I need the shaft housing and an end plate. I'm pretty sure the shaft housing can be purchased, but I haven't been able to find an end plate. That's why I said we might need to go to some swap meets. Anyone wanna join me at the next Pomona and Long Beach swap meets? Pomona is 1/18 and Long Beach is 1/11 & 2/8. I'm not sure I can make 1/11, but I could make 2/8.

ben, One of the guys ta DC works for Wieand in R&D. Snuggle up boy.:sm_laughing:

[joedls]

What I need is a valve grinder set and a valve grinding machine. If we want to put in bigger valves you'll need to get the cambers cut--unshrouded.

You want "Top flight". Hell, I thought you wanted them "ported" not 'pretty".:)


I'll also need the intake and the header or header gasket --- also the intake gasket we are going to use.

I'm going to have to fix BOTH my Makitas--not a real problem.


What's the time frame you are looking at???? Be real here.:motorsmile:

The intake is going to depend on whether or not I can get this blower back together. If not, someone needs to decide what intake will be used. Does anyone make a header for this swap?

[BRUTAL64]

The intake is going to depend on whether or not I can get this blower back together. If not, someone needs to decide what intake will be used. Does anyone make a header for this swap?

What we may want to discuss here is this:

Using 351 Windsor heads or a set of cheap alum heads.


I'll be more than happy to port the 302 heads, it's just the exhaust port --no matter what I do-- it's going to be too small so are the stock valves.

Saturday night we'll sit down and talk about the best way to go.

Don't know on the headers yet, we could go with shorties if nothing else is out there.:drink:

[Vettezuki]

What we may want to discuss here is this:

Using 351 Windsor heads or a set of cheap alum heads.


I'll be more than happy to port the 302 heads, it's just the exhaust port --no matter what I do-- it's going to be too small so are the stock valves.

Saturday night we'll sit down and talk about the best way to go.

Don't know on the headers yet, we could go with shorties if nothing else is out there.:drink:

Open question for all:

What are the price points for other heads?
351W
Alum
?

For money and time invested, it kinda sounds like we'll get a better ROI on using different heads perhaps. :huh:

[94cobra69ss396]

Don't know on the headers yet, we could go with shorties if nothing else is out there.:drink:

...Full Length 1-3/4" Headers for 2nd gen/Ford conversion...
Jim Galloway reports he is very happy using the BBK #15690 headers on his conversion. BBK calls them "351 Swap Headers", and they come with 1-3/4" primaries, 3/8" flanges, and dome style collectors. They are available in chrome (#1569) and ceramic coated (#15690) finishes, and you can get them from Summit Racing.

[enkeivette]

Sean will give you two hugs.

Hugs is code for sloppy mouth sex.

Open question for all:

What are the price points for other heads?
351W
Alum
?

For money and time invested, it kinda sounds like we'll get a better ROI on using different heads perhaps. :huh:

I vote for better E-Bay heads. An MLS HG will likely cost $180 for a pair, so it doesn't seem worth it to invest nearly $200 in HGs and cheap out on the heads, when we will likely want to pull the choked out heads after we get our first 13 second time slip.

I'm not a Ford guy, so I won't make specific head suggestions. But we should be checking E-Bay and craigslist for some better heads periodically.

[BRUTAL64]

Open question for all:

What are the price points for other heads?
351W
Alum
?

For money and time invested, it kinda sounds like we'll get a better ROI on using different heads perhaps. :huh:

07GTPONY has a set of 351w's that we could talk to him about. He's had some work done but aren't finished. Just a thought. :D
Ford Aluminum Tri-Pro 5.0 302/351-W $299.00 $275.00


100% Satisfaction Guaranteed!

http://www.tristatecylinderhead.com/catalog/

Single Head Bare
60cc Combustion Chamber
Choice Of 175cc Intake
190cc Intake Runners
210cc Intake Runners
Phosphor Bronze Valve Guides


100% Satisfaction Guaranteed!

Single Head Built Complete $399.00
3/8" Screw-in Studs & Guide Plates
Stainless 2.055" or 2.02" Intake Valves
Stainless 1.600" Exhaust Valves
Performace Springs Good To .550" Hyd. Roller
*130 psi @ 1.800" (closed)
*340 psi @ 1.258" (open)

These are the guys I got my heads from.

[Vettezuki]

07GTPONY has a set of 351w's that we could talk to him about. He's had some work done but aren't finished. Just a thought. :D
Ford Aluminum Tri-Pro 5.0 302/351-W $299.00 $275.00


100% Satisfaction Guaranteed!

http://www.tristatecylinderhead.com/catalog/

Single Head Bare
60cc Combustion Chamber
Choice Of 175cc Intake
190cc Intake Runners
210cc Intake Runners
Phosphor Bronze Valve Guides


100% Satisfaction Guaranteed!

Single Head Built Complete $399.00
3/8" Screw-in Studs & Guide Plates
Stainless 2.055" or 2.02" Intake Valves
Stainless 1.600" Exhaust Valves
Performace Springs Good To .550" Hyd. Roller
*130 psi @ 1.800" (closed)
*340 psi @ 1.258" (open)


Maybe 07GTPONY would be interested by getting involved with a donation. Wink wink nod nod. You know the rules. Donate or put in some real labor and (if you are checked out driver) you can drive the thing when done.


If not, which is fine too of course if he has other plans, which of the above would you recommend? Our application will be boosted. Whether we get the 174 to work or something else . . .

[BRUTAL64]

Maybe 07GTPONY would be interested by getting involved with a donation. Wink wink nod nod. You know the rules. Donate or put in some real labor and (if you are checked out driver) you can drive the thing when done.


If not, which is fine too of course if he has other plans, which of the above would you recommend? Our application will be boosted. Whether we get the 174 to work or something else . . .

I talked to Pony boy here at work, he will be there Saturday.

Forced induction, is what I've always thought we will go. Fixing the 174 should not be a real problem.

Alum heads would be best all around. But cost---------------
I think I can drive a 4 speed:judge::judge::rolling::rolling::leaving:

[enkeivette]

351 W
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBF-CYLINDER-HEADS-FORD-351W-E7TE-PA-WINDSOR-FRESH_W0QQitemZ150319400882QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMoto rs_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item1503194008 82&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

[BRUTAL64]

351 W
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBF-CYLINDER-HEADS-FORD-351W-E7TE-PA-WINDSOR-FRESH_W0QQitemZ150319400882QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMoto rs_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item1503194008 82&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Valves are too small. Need chamber size.

Alum heads are really good for forced induction. The aftermaket heads will have the latest "good" chambers and will take more boost than cast iron factory.:judge:

With only 4 head bolts per cylinder we will need to think "O" rings or a VERY special head gasket. I have a DVD on this somewhere.

[Vettezuki]

Valves are too small. Need chamber size.

Alum heads are really good for forced induction. The aftermaket heads will have the latest "good" chambers and will take more boost than cast iron factory.:judge:

My extreme upper limit for heads, fully assembled, with MLS gaskets is $1k. Link to your recommendation.

Heads are galdurned important for power, so a little extra scratch here is ok. :leaving: It increases the value and awesomeness of the car in a critical area.

FUNCTIONAL COMPATIBILITY
Should we care so much about matching this head choice to whatever FI we end up with? We're assuming the 174 can be repaired, but if it can't and we go with say a 6/8-71 Turbo (which I have a soft spot for), or if bird can make a bombass hookup with Wieand, will the same heads be equally awesome. I'm assuming yes. The cam is obviously a different story.

[BRUTAL64]

My extreme upper limit for heads, fully assembled, with MLS gaskets is $1k. Link to your recommendation.

Heads are galdurned important for power, so a little extra scratch here is ok. :leaving: It increases the value and awesomeness of the car in a critical area.

FUNCTIONAL COMPATIBILITY
Should we care so much about matching this head choice to whatever FI we end up with? We're assuming the 174 can be repaired, but if it can't and we go with say a 6/8-71 Turbo (which I have a soft spot for), or if bird can make a bombass hookup with Wieand, will the same heads be equally awesome. I'm assuming yes. The cam is obviously a different story.



Don't have a lot of time here. Going home. Heads are everything. More tomarrow. :drink:

[94cobra69ss396]

Valves are too small. Need chamber size.

Alum heads are really good for forced induction. The aftermaket heads will have the latest "good" chambers and will take more boost than cast iron factory.:judge:

With only 4 head bolts per cylinder we will need to think "O" rings or a VERY special head gasket. I have a DVD on this somewhere.

As long as we use Fel Pro MLS gaskets we should be fine without O-rings. I'm running a set of AFR 165s on the Cobra with 9.2:1 compression and 10psi of boost and haven't had any issues with them.

As for head size that depends a lot on the specs of the cam. Joedls, do you have any idea what the specs are on that custom grind cam? We are talking about only 302ci so we don't want to go too big unless we are going to rev it really high (above 6500rpms). And if that's the case then we need to ditch the hydraulic roller and go to a solid roller. Hydraulic rollers in the 5.0 are only good to about 6500rpms. I think something around 185cc to 190cc if the cam has 220 at .050 or more. If the cam has less than 215 at .050 then something in the 165-170 range would work well.

Ben, I'd pass on that 8.8. One, it has drum brakes and two, it only has 28 spline axles. Also, I'm fairly sure that it will have to be narrowed to fit under the RX7 but you could measure and see. If you want to go with an 8.8 get one from an Explorer that already has disc brakes and 31 spline axles.

[joedls]

As long as we use Fel Pro MLS gaskets we should be fine without O-rings. I'm running a set of AFR 165s on the Cobra with 9.2:1 compression and 10psi of boost and haven't had any issues with them.

As for head size that depends a lot on the specs of the cam. Joedls, do you have any idea what the specs are on that custom grind cam? We are talking about only 302ci so we don't want to go too big unless we are going to rev it really high (above 6500rpms). And if that's the case then we need to ditch the hydraulic roller and go to a solid roller. Hydraulic rollers in the 5.0 are only good to about 6500rpms. I think something around 185cc to 190cc if the cam has 220 at .050 or more. If the cam has less than 215 at .050 then something in the 165-170 range would work well.

Ben, I'd pass on that 8.8. One, it has drum brakes and two, it only has 28 spline axles. Also, I'm fairly sure that it will have to be narrowed to fit under the RX7 but you could measure and see. If you want to go with an 8.8 get one from an Explorer that already has disc brakes and 31 spline axles.


I agree about the MLS gaskets. I used the Cometics on my 347 with 12 PSI of boost and 9.7:1 CR, no problems.

I really can't say what the specs on the cam are. I couldn't find any info on it. I think I'd go with 185cc or 195cc with that blower. You really want to minimize any restrictions so the blower can do its job.

[07gtpony]

Heads make the engine!!!! All the engine does is stay together!!!! AFR FTW!!! 185 or 205!!! 185 will do the trick, with Nitrous exhaust ports, http://www.airflowresearch.com/185sbf_strp.php

I kind of jumped a few pages.... what is the short block??? year? roller? what is done to it? Compersion?

My fox ran 11s with a stock block 9.5:1 cast pistons 351w, with a lot of blow-by, with a set of AFRs!!! 11s, it only dyno 325hp to the wheels!!!

The biggest question is how fast you guys want to go???

[enkeivette]

I agree about the AFRs, I like mine.

Canfields are also up there with AFR.

Check these out, they come with a 660 lift cam. Yeyah!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/sbf-can-feild-alum-heads-fresh-free-cam-TO-WINNER_W0QQitemZ230316802410QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMot ors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item230316802 410&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

[07gtpony]

This is all you need!!! N/A, what kinda of collection can you guys make?

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/pts/976324106.html

[07gtpony]

Offer this guy, like $500 see what he says

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/pts/974894294.html

[Vettezuki]

Offer this guy, like $500 see what he says

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/pts/974894294.html

Those are pretty. Would it be good on top of our 302 for a blown application?

[07gtpony]

after Glen opens these up a bit.... yeah. anyone know the info onthe block? year? roller? what is in it? If he will take $500 yeah.

[Vettezuki]

after Glen opens these up a bit.... yeah. anyone know the info onthe block? year? roller? what is in it? If he will take $500 yeah.

Forged 302 bored .030 over, custom grind roller cam specifically for blower, reconditioned E6 iron heads with dual springs and 1.6 roller rockers.

[07gtpony]

so its a roller bock??? out of what car? rods?

[enkeivette]

Those are pretty. Would it be good on top of our 302 for a blown application?

165s... how cute. :lame:

[94cobra69ss396]

Those are pretty. Would it be good on top of our 302 for a blown application?

There is one issue with those heads. They look like they are the pedestal mount heads which are the same I have on the Cobra. To use them we would have to get the pedestal mount rockers, the pedestals and shims. That's not a big deal but you'll need to factor another $300 into the cost for new stuff.

[BRUTAL64]

I'm back.

Ok, the heads should be 190cc to 210cc depending on cam lift and RPM limit. But a smaller intake port will work. With the forced induction intake size is realitive to boost. The exhaust port and restrictions after that are VERY important.

We need more information on the rear gear and total boost. What the final weight is going to be----give or take a few pounds.

If cost is the only factor here, then find the heads you can efford and then build every thing around that.

Are we going to go thru the short block or just use what we have as is??


Any heads we get, the ports can be cleaned up and do a little bowl work. Port match with the intake is a must. But, I don't like an exact match, I like the head ports to be a little bigger than the intake because of port pulse. The intake port being smaller helps break up the pulse wave. :drink:

[Vettezuki]

We need more information on the rear gear and total boost. What the final weight is going to be----give or take a few pounds.

I'd probably suggest 4.11s for our application. What do you think?

Total boost 12-15psi with methanol injection :huh:

Weight, and I'm really guessing on this one is probably going to be something on the order of: 2,750 +- 150. :huh:

Are we going to go thru the short block or just use what we have as is??

I'd love to tare through a block with you. I've never done it so it'd be a fantastic learning experience. What would we be looking at and trying to cost effectively improve. I think Joe said it only had about 5,000 miles on it and it was all forged. Please clarify Joe.

Would we necessarily need to change the cam to be appropriate to the heads, or might the one that's in there work just fine.

If cost is the only factor here, then find the heads you can efford and then build every thing around that.

Cost is the controlling limiting factor. But I have *some* flexibility here because it's such a critical component to making reliable power. Let's think on the order of <=$1,000, preferably a lot less than :)

[94cobra69ss396]

I'd probably suggest 4.11s for our application. What do you think?

Total boost 12-15psi with methanol injection :huh:

Weight, and I'm really guessing on this one is probably going to be something on the order of: 2,750 +- 150. :huh::)

What gears depends a lot on the cam and how tall of a tire we use. With a light car like this and the amount of torque we are going to have down low with the roots blower I think something in the neighborhood of 3.73 to 4.11 with a 26 inch tall tire would be ideal if the engine makes power to 6000rpms. If Joe can remember what the redline was before it would help.


I'd love to tare through a block with you. I've never done it so it'd be a fantastic learning experience. What would we be looking at and trying to cost effectively improve. I think Joe said it only had about 5,000 miles on it and it was all forged. Please clarify Joe.

Would we necessarily need to change the cam to be appropriate to the heads, or might the one that's in there work just fine.:)

We don't have specs for the cam but I'm assuming because he had it made for the E6 heads that it is going to have more lift and duration on the exhaust side which isn't a bad thing when it comes to SBF heads. He also had it made for the blower which we are still going to be using so it should work fine. I also don't think there is a need to go through the bottom end with only 5000 miles but it wouldn't hurt to pull a rod and main bearing just to make sure they look good.


Cost is the controlling limiting factor. But I have *some* flexibility here because it's such a critical component to making reliable power. Let's think on the order of <=$1,000, preferably a lot less than :)

Did you speak to Sean about the PM I sent you? Heads are another option I can discuss with them. When I bought my AFRs they only cost me around $1200 new.

[BRUTAL64]

I'd probably suggest 4.11s for our application. What do you think?

Total boost 12-15psi with methanol injection :huh:

Weight, and I'm really guessing on this one is probably going to be something on the order of: 2,750 +- 150. :huh:



I'd love to tare through a block with you. I've never done it so it'd be a fantastic learning experience. What would we be looking at and trying to cost effectively improve. I think Joe said it only had about 5,000 miles on it and it was all forged. Please clarify Joe.

Doing a 302 is childs play. A very easy block to work on. I haven't done onw since the 80's but not a problem. Actually you should do it. Get the book on how to rebuild Small Block Ford. I'll hold your hand.

Would we necessarily need to change the cam to be appropriate to the heads, or might the one that's in there work just fine.



Cost is the controlling limiting factor. But I have *some* flexibility here because it's such a critical component to making reliable power. Let's think on the order of <=$1,000, preferably a lot less than :)

All this is food for thought. But, no matter what you deside "WE" will make it work. Hell, I have built a $12.00 engine that ran a best 11.93.:judge:

[Vettezuki]

. . .
Did you speak to Sean about the PM I sent you? Heads are another option I can discuss with them. When I bought my AFRs they only cost me around $1200 new.


Yes and I'll PM you later. Basically it's just a matter of details.

[BRUTAL64]

Pony boy (2007gtpony) has made an offer------he said he will test the engine in his FOX body racer for us. Isn't that nice?:drink:

[Vettezuki]

Pony boy (2007gtpony) has made an offer------he said he will test the engine in his FOX body racer for us. Isn't that nice?:drink:

Que? You mean you guys will take the block and build it up, using the Fox as the test platform?

[BRUTAL64]

Que? You mean you guys will take the block and build it up, using the Fox as the test platform?

No. What he meant was AFTER the 302 is built he will put in his FOX body to run it for us. Sort of test run--or runs. Like I said; Isn't that nice.:drink:

[Vettezuki]

No. What he meant was AFTER the 302 is built he will put in his FOX body to run it for us. Sort of test run--or runs. Like I said; Isn't that nice.:drink:

:censored: Giving us the 351 heads would be nice. I can blow up the motor on test runs all by myself. :rolling:

[BRUTAL64]

:censored: Giving us the 351 heads would be nice. I can blow up the motor on test runs all by myself. :rolling:

Yea, I think his heart was in the right place. But, you know.............:sm_up_there:

[94cobra69ss396]

No. What he meant was AFTER the 302 is built he will put in his FOX body to run it for us. Sort of test run--or runs. Like I said; Isn't that nice.:drink:

He should probably test it to see how long it will last too before it needs to be rebuilt. It's kind of like the old Tootsie Pop commercial with the owl. How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Pop, The world will never know.

[Vettezuki]

I want to clear as many items as early as possible. While the engine might take on some slightly different configurations, I don't imagine the ignition system will change all that much. With an eye towards performance value, what should I be looking for for this engine regarding distributor, coil, etc.

[Vettezuki]

Assuming the 4 speed wide ratio top loader, a 3.73 axle and 255/60x15 tires, here's what we're looking at for rpm vs. mph. I'm thinking a 6,000 to 6,500 rpm redline here. Let me know if you have some other axle and tire sires you want me to plug in.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/500/RX-SnakeTransAxleTire1.jpg

[joedls]

If Joe can remember what the redline was before it would help.

I also don't think there is a need to go through the bottom end with only 5000 miles but it wouldn't hurt to pull a rod and main bearing just to make sure they look good.




The engine seemed to quit making power ~ 5500 RPM, but I'm sure that is because it was choked down; stock exhaust manifolds, 2" exhaust, small ports and valves on the heads. I think that shortblock will hold up to about 550 - 600 HP. Much more than that at these blocks start splitting without further work.

I agree that the bottom end doesn't need to be gone through, but checking the bearings would be wise. Won't take much effort.

[joedls]

Total boost 12-15psi with methanol injection :huh:



I had the smallest pulley made for that blower when it was on my 347 and it would make 11-12 PSI, so I think 15 PSI will be hard to come by with that blower. It is affectionately referred to as a "baby blower" in the hotrod world.

[joedls]

I want to clear as many items as early as possible. While the engine might take on some slightly different configurations, I don't imagine the ignition system will change all that much. With an eye towards performance value, what should I be looking for for this engine regarding distributor, coil, etc.


This is what I used for ignition:

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Ignitions/Street/Strip/Analog/6462_-_MSD_6-BTM_Boost_Timing_Master.aspx


http://www.msdignition.com/product.aspx?id=5609&terms=ford+e-curve

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Coils/Street/Strip/8207_-_MSD_Blaster_SS_Coil.aspx

[Vettezuki]

I had the smallest pulley made for that blower when it was on my 347 and it would make 11-12 PSI, so I think 15 PSI will be hard to come by with that blower. It is affectionately referred to as a "baby blower" in the hotrod world.

Good to know, let's get some good heads and shoot for 12 psi. With headers, good tune, etc. I'm guessing we could hit the 500BHP level, which should be stupid plenty in a 2,700lbs +- car. :judge:

[joedls]

Good to know, let's get some good heads and shoot for 12 psi. With headers, good tune, etc. I'm guessing we could hit the 500BHP level, which should be stupid plenty in a 2,700lbs +- car. :judge:


Actually, the better the air flows and the fewer restrictions there are, the less boost and the more power you're gonna make. So let's shoot for 10 PSI with the same pulley that was making 12 PSI on my 347.


We can dream anyway.

[94cobra69ss396]

Good to know, let's get some good heads and shoot for 12 psi. With headers, good tune, etc. I'm guessing we could hit the 500BHP level, which should be stupid plenty in a 2,700lbs +- car. :judge:

To give you an idea of where the car should be at this engine should make about the same as my Cobra. Maybe a little more if we go with 185-190cc heads and will have more lowend torque thanks to the roots blower. My Cobra is about a 1000lbs heavier, has a suspension that's not ideal for drag racing and I've gone 11.69 at 118. I think with a proper suspension, the lighter weight and more lowend torque mid 10's at 123-126mph is possible.

[94cobra69ss396]

Actually, the better the air flows and the fewer restrictions there are, the less boost and the more power you're gonna make. So let's shoot for 10 PSI with the same pulley that was making 12 PSI on my 347.


We can dream anyway.

You are also talking about a 40ci difference so even with better heads we might still be in the same boost as the 347.

[Vettezuki]

07GTPONY has a set of 351w's that we could talk to him about. He's had some work done but aren't finished. Just a thought. :D
Ford Aluminum Tri-Pro 5.0 302/351-W $299.00 $275.00


100% Satisfaction Guaranteed!

http://www.tristatecylinderhead.com/catalog/

Single Head Bare
60cc Combustion Chamber
Choice Of 175cc Intake
190cc Intake Runners
210cc Intake Runners
Phosphor Bronze Valve Guides


100% Satisfaction Guaranteed!

Single Head Built Complete $399.00
3/8" Screw-in Studs & Guide Plates
Stainless 2.055" or 2.02" Intake Valves
Stainless 1.600" Exhaust Valves
Performace Springs Good To .550" Hyd. Roller
*130 psi @ 1.800" (closed)
*340 psi @ 1.258" (open)

These are the guys I got my heads from.

Couple questions:

- Would we want to put 351 Heads on our 302 block? Any strange problems that have to be dealt with doing that, or is it "the way to go"?

- BTW, what about intake and carb, those seem important too. :nuts:

[joedls]

You are also talking about a 40ci difference so even with better heads we might still be in the same boost as the 347.

Yeah, that's why I said we could dream. The truth is, the 347 breathed very well. It had CNC machined Dart Pro 1 heads (2.02/1.60 valves, 195cc runners) that were port matched to both the intake and exhaust, LT headers, and a 2 1/2" Magnaflow exhaust. So, if that 302 makes 12 PSI of boost, it will be breathing very well.

[94cobra69ss396]

Couple questions:

- Would we want to put 351 Heads on our 302 block? Any strange problems that have to be dealt with doing that, or is it "the way to go"?

- BTW, what about intake and carb, those seem important too. :nuts:

If you are talking aftermarket heads the 351 and 302 use the same head, just a different intake manifold. As for stock heads, I think the only difference is that the 351 heads came with larger valves but I'm not sure. Anyone know?

Don't we have the lower intake for the blower already or just the blower case?

I'm also not sure what size carb we should run. My guess is around a 750 because of the blower but I'm not sure.

[joedls]

Couple questions:

- Would we want to put 351 Heads on our 302 block? Any strange problems that have to be dealt with doing that, or is it "the way to go"?

- BTW, what about intake and carb, those seem important too. :nuts:

Windsor heads are interchangeable. That was the hotrodders way to go before all the aftermarket heads came along.

I have the intake made for this blower. I would suggest the Mighty Demon 750 blower carb. It worked very well for me. Unfortunately, I traded it for something else about 2 months ago because I'm not planning to put the blower back on my 347.

[Vettezuki]

If you are talking aftermarket heads the 351 and 302 use the same head, just a different intake manifold. As for stock heads, I think the only difference is that the 351 heads came with larger valves but I'm not sure. Anyone know?

Don't we have the lower intake for the blower already or just the blower case?

I'm also not sure what size carb we should run. My guess is around a 750 because of the blower but I'm not sure.

Sorry if I'm a little dense. So does this mean that if we have the low rise intake for the 174 we SHOULD use aftermarket 302, because they'll match the intake?

[Vettezuki]

Windsor heads are interchangeable. That was the hotrodders way to go before all the aftermarket heads came along.

I have the intake made for this blower. I would suggest the Mighty Demon 750 blower carb. It worked very well for me. Unfortunately, I traded it for something else about 2 months ago because I'm not planning to put the blower back on my 347.

So, aftermarket 302/351, doesn't matter for performance or fitting to the intake?

[94cobra69ss396]

Sorry if I'm a little dense. So does this mean that if we have the low rise intake for the 174 we SHOULD use aftermarket 302, because they'll match the intake?

No, you can use any head you want, 289, 302, 351. They will all work. What I'm saying is the blower has two parts to it. The blower case and the a lower intake manifold that is designed specifically for the blower. See in the picture below. The lower intake gets bolted to the heads and then the blower gets bolted the the intake. Finally the carb is bolted to the top of the blower.

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/wnd-77-174fsb-1_w.jpg

[joedls]

So, aftermarket 302/351, doesn't matter for performance or fitting to the intake?


No, doesn't matter. The only reason the intake would be different for a 351 would be that the heads would be a little further apart.

[Vettezuki]

No, you can use any head you want, 289, 302, 351. They will all work. What I'm saying is the blower has two parts to it. The blower case and the a lower intake manifold that is designed specifically for the blower. See in the picture below. The lower intake gets bolted to the heads and then the blower gets bolted the the intake. Finally the carb is bolted to the top of the blower.


Ok got it that the blower intake will fit to either heads without issue.

Regarding our performance application, buying after market, should we?
- buy 302
- buy 351
- arbitrary

Why?

[94cobra69ss396]

Also, the difference between the 289/302 intake and the 351W intake is that the 351 is wider due to the block being taller.

Performer RPM 302
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/edl-7521.jpg

Performer RPM 351
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/edl-7581_w.jpg

[94cobra69ss396]

Ok got it that the blower intake will fit to either heads without issue.

Regarding our performance application, buying after market, should we?
- buy 302
- buy 351
- arbitrary

Why?

Buy good aftermarket heads in the 185-195cc range. The best flowing SBF heads are the GT40s that cam on the Cobra's like mine. I replaced mine with box stock AFR 165's and picked up 50hp.

[Vettezuki]

Buy good aftermarket heads in the 185-195cc range. The best flowing SBF heads are the GT40s that cam on the Cobra's like mine. I replaced mine with box stock AFR 165's and picked up 50hp.

Ok, got it. Out of curiosity, BRUTAL sugested 190-210 and you're suggesting 185-195. What's the theory and why did you guys select slightly different ranges of intake runners. Basically I'm targeting 195 since it's inside both your ranges.

[Vettezuki]

Ok we know our trans and it turns out the stock axle is 4.1. Assuming a 255/60x15 that gives us this, which is probably not enough top end. Maybe we need an even taller tire?

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/500/RX-SnakeTransAxleTire2.jpg

[joedls]

You should be able to spin that engine and make power to 6500 with the right heads. I would spin it up to 6000 before, but because of the heads, power would die off about 5500.

[94cobra69ss396]

Ok, got it. Out of curiosity, BRUTAL sugested 190-210 and you're suggesting 185-195. What's the theory and why did you guys select slightly different ranges of intake runners. Basically I'm targeting 195 since it's inside both your ranges.

I think 210cc is too much for our little 306 with the rpm range we are in. If this was a 347 or if we were going to change the cam and spin this 306 to 8000 then I would agree that we should run 200-210 but not with the 306 and a max of 6500rpms.

This engine is equivalent to what I'm running in the Cobra with the exception of a root instead of a centrifugal. I'm running AFR 165 heads and a Crane 2040 and it pulls strong to 6000rpms. On a chassis dyno I put down 433rwhp with the supercharger belt slipping at 5300rpms. I would have put AFR 185 heads on originally but I still had the stock bottom end and the stock pistons won't clear the larger valves in them. I now have forged pistons that will clear the larger valves so an upgrade is in order one day.

[BRUTAL64]

Couple questions:

- Would we want to put 351 Heads on our 302 block? Any strange problems that have to be dealt with doing that, or is it "the way to go"?

- BTW, what about intake and carb, those seem important too. :nuts:

Head bolts are different. 7/16s on the SBC and 1/2 inch on 351w. BUT, if I remember correctly, there are SPECIAL head bolts for that. Anyone??


"BTW, what about intake and carb, those seem important too. :nuts:"
I though we were going blower?

[BRUTAL64]

Ok, got it. Out of curiosity, BRUTAL sugested 190-210 and you're suggesting 185-195. What's the theory and why did you guys select slightly different ranges of intake runners. Basically I'm targeting 195 since it's inside both your ranges.

The reason I picked 190 to 210 is the difference between manufactures flow rates. Some 210cc flow about what a AFR 190cc does in the mid lifts. AFR around 190cc would be about perfect. But, you said cost was a factor.


Everyone has different ideas on what to use. Lets figure our cost factor and THEN we can pick our intake runner based on manufacture flow rates.:drink:

Another thing to keep in mind is: An NA motor drags the air/fuel into the cylinder- a forced induction pushes the air/fuel in. Port velocity in small NA engines is VERY important. BUT, Forced Induction is pushed thru port and port size (to a limit) can be bigger than on a NA motor.

[94cobra69ss396]

The reason I picked 190 to 210 is the difference between manufactures flow rates. Some 210cc flow about what a AFR 190cc does in the mid lifts. AFR around 190cc would be about perfect. But, you said cost was a factor.


Everyone has different ideas on what to use. Lets figure our cost factor and THEN we can pick our intake runner based on manufacture flow rates.:drink:

Another thing to keep in mind is: An NA motor drags the air/fuel into the cylinder- a forced induction pushes the air/fuel in. Port velocity in small NA engines is VERY important. BUT, Forced Induction is pushed thru port and port size (to a limit) can be bigger than on a NA motor.

Good points.

[BRUTAL64]

Good points.

Hey, thanks.:drink:

Every once in a while I get things right.:nuts:

[Vettezuki]

Joe has the intake with the blower, but does not have a carb for it anymore. He suggested a Demon Holly 750. Anyone, anyone?


I will begin looking for a smoking deal on AFR 190s~ to get a feel for how much they will likely be.

Or maybe just a pair of these, as BRUTAL originally suggested.
http://www.tristatecylinderhead.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=106

[BRUTAL64]

Joe has the intake with the blower, but does not have a carb for it anymore. He suggested a Demon Holly 750. Anyone, anyone?


I will begin looking for a smoking deal on AFR 190s~ to get a feel for how much they will likely be.

Or maybe just a pair of these, as BRUTAL originally suggested.
http://www.tristatecylinderhead.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=106


AFR is the best for the cost.



These are the heads I actually suggested. Now these are China heads. They will probably need some work- quality may be an issue ( I haven't seen these head myself)--but the price is right. I know some of you guys don't like china heads. :judge:
http://www.tristatecylinderhead.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=29

[Vettezuki]

I just talked to Troy at Ford Performance in Anaheim. They're a speed shop in Anaheim that build motors of all types, but somewhat specialize in Ford. He helped me a bit during my Corvette build.

I talked to him about our build and he recommended off the shelf as cast Avenger Heads with 195 cc runners, Fully assembled including shaft mounted rockers: $859 for the pair. They were going for like $1199 and up recently, but the economy ain't so hot. They are brand new aluminum heads. He says he uses them on their crate NA 347 for 440HP. Plenty of head for our application.

This seems like the way to go, the AFRs are just a bit much. Any thoughts?

He had two questions. What are the pistons? Something about making sure they had the proper valve relief. He said as long as they were aftermarket pistons there should be no problem. Also, he wanted to know about the cam so he could set up the spring pressure properly.

Keep looking or pull the trigger? This represents the upper end of my budget for heads.

[joedls]

Head bolts are different. 7/16s on the SBC and 1/2 inch on 351w. BUT, if I remember correctly, there are SPECIAL head bolts for that. Anyone??


"BTW, what about intake and carb, those seem important too. :nuts:"
I though we were going blower?


Yep, most aftermarket heads are interchangeable now. You just have to purchase the correct head bolts/studs.

[joedls]

I just talked to Troy at Ford Performance in Anaheim. They're a speed shop in Anaheim that build motors of all types, but somewhat specialize in Ford. He helped me a bit during my Corvette build.

I talked to him about our build and he recommended off the shelf as cast Avenger Heads with 195 cc runners, Fully assembled including shaft mounted rockers: $859 for the pair. They were going for like $1199 and up recently, but the economy ain't so hot. They are brand new aluminum heads. He says he uses them on their crate NA 347 for 440HP. Plenty of head for our application.

This seems like the way to go, the AFRs are just a bit much. Any thoughts?

He had two questions. What are the pistons? Something about making sure they had the proper valve relief. He said as long as they were aftermarket pistons there should be no problem. Also, he wanted to know about the cam so he could set up the spring pressure properly.

Keep looking or pull the trigger? This represents the upper end of my budget for heads.

I don't remember and can't find the paperwork to determine what pistons I purchased for this engine. They are definitely aftermarket pistons. I'm pretty sure they have valve reliefs cut in them, but you'll be able to see that when you pull the heads anyway.

Again, I can't find any specs on the cam, but I would be very surprised if it had more than .540 lift on the exhaust side, and no more than ~230 - 240* of duration at .050 on the exhaust side. It would be less on the intake side. This was a pretty mild cam.

[BRUTAL64]

I just talked to Troy at Ford Performance in Anaheim. They're a speed shop in Anaheim that build motors of all types, but somewhat specialize in Ford. He helped me a bit during my Corvette build.

I talked to him about our build and he recommended off the shelf as cast Avenger Heads with 195 cc runners, Fully assembled including shaft mounted rockers: $859 for the pair. They were going for like $1199 and up recently, but the economy ain't so hot. They are brand new aluminum heads. He says he uses them on their crate NA 347 for 440HP. Plenty of head for our application.

This seems like the way to go, the AFRs are just a bit much. Any thoughts?

He had two questions. What are the pistons? Something about making sure they had the proper valve relief. He said as long as they were aftermarket pistons there should be no problem. Also, he wanted to know about the cam so he could set up the spring pressure properly.

Keep looking or pull the trigger? This represents the upper end of my budget for heads.

That sounds fine to me. I won't know till I look at the head if they have possiblites. Even then I can only look for MAJOR problems with the Port shape and bowl area. Does he have some flow numbers? I can look at those (if the flow numbers are correct) and get an idea what it will do.

They are probably fine, your call. Like I said, we can make anything work here.:drink:


Just need a good starting point. They will be better than any stock head I could port.:)


Saturday after the run I could give a Porting 101 class. Someone just needs to bring a pad (big) and pen.

[joedls]

That sounds fine to me. I won't know till I look at the head if they have possiblites. Even then I can only look for MAJOR problems with the Port shape and bowl area. Does he have some flow numbers? I can look at those (if the flow numbers are correct) and get an idea what it will do.

They are probably fine, your call. Like I said, we can make anything work here.:drink:


Just need a good starting point. They will be better than any stock head I could port.:)


Saturday after the run I could give a Porting 101 class. Someone just needs to bring a pad and pen.


I couldn't find the 195cc version on their website, but I looked at the 185cc & 205cc. The 185 flowed 274 cfm on intake and 190 on exhaust @ .550 lift. The 205 flowed 290 cfm on intake and 223 on exhaust @ .550 lift.

http://www.avengercylinderheads.com/SBF185.pdf

http://www.avengercylinderheads.com/SBF205.pdf

[Vettezuki]

That sounds fine to me. I won't know till I look at the head if they have possiblites. Even then I can only look for MAJOR problems with the Port shape and bowl area. Does he have some flow numbers? I can look at those (if the flow numbers are correct) and get an idea what it will do.

They are probably fine, your call. Like I said, we can make anything work here.:drink:


Just need a good starting point. They will be better than any stock head I could port.:)


Saturday after the run I could give a Porting 101 class. Someone just needs to bring a pad (big) and pen.

These heads are "as cast". They need to be ported for maximum awesomeness.

We are going with 195 (I think).

Here are the flow numbers for his CNC Ported 185:
Lift:cfm-in:cfm-out
.100:69:59
.200:129:118
.300:188:153
.400:234:178
.500:269:189
.600:278:195
.700:281:210
.800:288:228

For his CNC Ported 205
.100:71:61
.200:142:124
.300:190:162
.400:252:200
.500:287:218
.600:300:225
.700:305:230
.800:309:235


So, I sort of infer that our flow numbers for a 195 and .550 lift would be
284:207

How's dat?

[joedls]

These heads are "as cast". They need to be ported for maximum awesomeness.

We are going with 195 (I think).

Here are the flow numbers for his CNC Ported 185:
Lift:cfm-in:cfm-out
.100:69:59
.200:129:118
.300:188:153
.400:234:178
.500:269:189
.600:278:195
.700:281:210
.800:288:228

For his CNC Ported 205
.100:71:61
.200:142:124
.300:190:162
.400:252:200
.500:287:218
.600:300:225
.700:305:230
.800:309:235


So, I sort of infer that our flow numbers for a 195 and .550 lift would be
284:207

How's dat?

Not bad. This is for the AFR 205 version.

.100 .200 .300 .400 .500 .600
65 133 192 238 271 292
51 114 173 210 231 236

[94cobra69ss396]

I think those heads would work well and they're about $500 less than AFR.

[BRUTAL64]

These heads are "as cast". They need to be ported for maximum awesomeness.

We are going with 195 (I think).

Here are the flow numbers for his CNC Ported 185:
Lift:cfm-in:cfm-out
.100:69:59
.200:129:118
.300:188:153
.400:234:178
.500:269:189
.600:278:195
.700:281:210
.800:288:228

For his CNC Ported 205
.100:71:61
.200:142:124
.300:190:162
.400:252:200
.500:287:218
.600:300:225
.700:305:230
.800:309:235


So, I sort of infer that our flow numbers for a 195 and .550 lift would be
284:207

How's dat?


If the 195's as cast are simular to the 185 CNC then they will work fine. The mid lift is not as good as AFRs (no one is really) but this is a "GOOD" head. I'd still like to see a set. Without a flow bench a clean-up (if needed) is the best way to go.

"In head porting, what you don't do is sometimes more important than what you do do". Brutal :judge:

If I do Porting 101, you will know enough to understand what entailes a good head.:D:drink:

[94cobra69ss396]

If the 195's as cast are simular to the 185 CNC then they will work fine. The mid lift is not as good as AFRs (no one is really) but this is a "GOOD" head. I'd still like to see a set. Without a flow bench a clean-up (if needed) is the best way to go.

"In head porting, what you don't do is sometimes more inportant that what you do do". Brutal :judge:

If I do Porting 101, you will know enough to understand what entailes a good head.:D:drink:

I'll volunteer my BBC Edelbrock Performer RPM rectangular ports for a porting 101 class. I want to port them anyways so if you want to give a demo on port them all the better. I just have to pull them off the car.

[BRUTAL64]

I'll volunteer my BBC Edelbrock Performer RPM rectangular ports for a porting 101 class. I want to port them anyways so if you want to give a demo on port them all the better. I just have to pull them off the car.

No grinding:rolleyes:, this is 101 pre porting class. Just drawings and verbal abuse. But everyone will learn alot and it's free.;)

[94cobra69ss396]

No grinding:rolleyes:, this is 101 pre porting class. Just drawings and verbal abuse. But everyone will learn alot and it's free.;)


Is this going to be like the porting section in the How to Hot Rod a Big Block Chevy book? I learned a lot from that book when I ported my old oval ports. It actually gives info that's useful for all types of heads.

[BRUTAL64]

Is this going to be like the porting section in the How to Hot Rod a Big Block Chevy book? I learned a lot from that book when I ported my old oval ports. It actually gives info that's useful for all types of heads.

Yes and No. There will be great in sight and years or experiance put into easily understood words. You don't have to listen if you feel you have nothing to learn.:p

I'm going to go over basics and the big NO NOs. :D

[Leedom]

Yes and No. There will be great in sight and years or experiance put into easily understood words. You don't have to listen if you feel you have nothing to learn.:p

I'm going to go over basics and the big NO NOs. :D

Glenn as a teacher, that is a scary thought.:laugh: I like to live life on the edge though so I will sign up for the class.

[94cobra69ss396]

Yes and No. There will be great in sight and years or experiance put into easily understood words. You don't have to listen if you feel you have nothing to learn.:p

I'm going to go over basics and the big NO NOs. :D

I'd love to see it but Phil and I are going to be swapping the engine in his Jimmy.

[BRUTAL64]

Glenn as a teacher, that is a scary thought.:laugh: I like to live life on the edge though so I will sign up for the class.

Actually, I have done TECH classes here at CI for years.:smack:

[BRUTAL64]

I'd love to see it but Phil and I are going to be swapping the engine in his Jimmy.

Well, I was looking forward to anything you might want to add or comment on.

It won't be untill we get back from the cruise. Love to see you there.:drink:

[94cobra69ss396]

Well, I was looking forward to anything you might want to add or comment on.

It won't be untill we get back from the cruise. Love to see you there.:drink:

What time will that be? Maybe he and I can head over there later.

[BRUTAL64]

What time will that be? Maybe he and I can head over there later.

Sean is thinking 6 to 6:30 but that will probably be later. I'll wait untill everyone is done eating. But, we're assuming other people are interested.:huh:

[BRUTAL64]

I won't be here at work tomarrow. So I won't be able to get on here. Sean, Ben call me if you have any questions.


I will need a good size pad and somehting to draw with. I'm assuming that people are interested. If they are not, no biggie.:drink:

[94cobra69ss396]

Sean is thinking 6 to 6:30 but that will probably be later. I'll wait untill everyone is done eating. But, we're assuming other people are interested.:huh:

PM sent.

[Vettezuki]

Heads Purchased.

One thing, didn't include rockers like I thought, but still seems like a good, or at least fair deal over all.

Q: What kind of cam does this engine have in it, I forgot?

Q: Can/should we reuse the rockers from the stock heads? If so what was the stud size? OR, should I just bite the bullet and get a set of aluminum roller rockers for $159?

We saved quite a bit of money on the original car and will save some more because Ron will be building the cage, so I thought it made sense to use the savings and splurge a bit on the heads within reason. Now I'm somewhat back in el cheapo mode. :smack:

[BRUTAL64]

Heads Purchased.

One thing, didn't include rockers like I thought, but still seems like a good, or at least fair deal over all.

Q: What kind of cam does this engine have in it, I forgot?

Q: Can/should we reuse the rockers from the stock heads? If so what was the stud size? OR, should I just bite the bullet and get a set of aluminum roller rockers for $159?

We saved quite a bit of money on the original car and will save some more because Ron will be building the cage, so I thought it made sense to use the savings and splurge a bit on the heads within reason. Now I'm somewhat back in el cheapo mode. :smack:

Cool!!!!!!


Can you bring them (one)to the cruise?? I have a valve spring (very old) tool and we could pull a couple of valves.:drink:

[Vettezuki]

Cool!!!!!!


Can you bring them (one)to the cruise?? I have a valve spring (very old) tool and we could pull a couple of valves.:drink:

I won't have the new heads until next Wednesday or so. We could pull the stock heads if that's what you meant.

BTW, what about the rockers yo?

[BRUTAL64]

I won't have the new heads until next Wednesday or so. We could pull the stock heads if that's what you meant.

BTW, what about the rockers yo?


I meant the New heads. Yes, we can use the old rockers. Bring a few with you. Let me see them just to be sure.:drink:

[Vettezuki]

Glenn, did you say you had a carb that could be used, or know where we could get one that would be appropriate on the cheap? I'm assuming we could get a used one, and somebody here could rebuild it and set it up for our purpose.

[94cobra69ss396]

Q: What kind of cam does this engine have in it, I forgot?

It's a hydraulic roller.

[joedls]

Heads Purchased.

One thing, didn't include rockers like I thought, but still seems like a good, or at least fair deal over all.

Q: What kind of cam does this engine have in it, I forgot?

Q: Can/should we reuse the rockers from the stock heads? If so what was the stud size? OR, should I just bite the bullet and get a set of aluminum roller rockers for $159?

We saved quite a bit of money on the original car and will save some more because Ron will be building the cage, so I thought it made sense to use the savings and splurge a bit on the heads within reason. Now I'm somewhat back in el cheapo mode. :smack:


Those heads have aluminum roller rockers. They should work with the new heads.

[Vettezuki]

I've got clearance from Joe to sell the stock heads. I was thinking leave them intact and sell them, then use that money to put towards new Aluminum roller rockers for the new heads. Anybody have any idea what stock 302 heads should go for?

[joedls]

I've got clearance from Joe to sell the stock heads. I was thinking leave them intact and sell them, then use that money to put towards new Aluminum roller rockers for the new heads. Anybody have any idea what stock 302 heads should go for?



I don't think you need to purchase new rocker arms. Have you looked at what's on those heads yet? I think you'll be pleased when you pop open a valve cover.

[Vettezuki]

I don't think you need to purchase new rocker arms. Have you looked at what's on those heads yet? I think you'll be pleased when you pop open a valve cover.

That'd be even more better I guess. If you're coming to tomorrow night's meet, maybe you and Glenn can come over to my house (literally 2 minutes away) and take a look and give your ruling. Also, you can see the project car's current status.

[joedls]

That'd be even more better I guess. If you're coming to tomorrow night's meet, maybe you and Glenn can come over to my house (literally 2 minutes away) and take a look and give your ruling. Also, you can see the project car's current status.

Still not sure if I'll make it tomorrow night, but if I do, i'd love to swing by. Those heads have Crane Cams Energizer 1.6 roller rockers

[Vettezuki]

Still not sure if I'll make it tomorrow night, but if I do, i'd love to swing by. Those heads have Crane Cams Energizer 1.6 roller rockers

Oh, that ain't stock. Do you remember how big the studs were. The head guy needs to know when assembling the new heads.

[joedls]

Oh, that ain't stock. Do you remember how big the studs were. The head guy needs to know when assembling the new heads.

No, Ben, they're not stock. What am I gonna do with you? How many times do I have to give you this info?

http://motorgen.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12124&postcount=98

[Vettezuki]

No, Ben, they're not stock. What am I gonna do with you? How many times do I have to give you this info?

http://motorgen.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12124&postcount=98

Thanks Joe. That was the post I was looking for, but didn't look too hard. I'm all clear now. :bigthumbsup:

[94cobra69ss396]

I'll be there Sunday if you want me to take a look. We can also pull a head and see what style of valve relief the pistons have. If they have the four half moon style the biggest valve we can run is a 1.94 which is what my AFR 165s have. If they have two larger reliefs then we can run 2.02 which is what the AFR 185 comes with.

[joedls]

He suggested a Demon Holly 750.

Just to clarify, I don't know what a Demon Holley 750 is, but I did recommend a Mighty Demon 750 blower carb. This carb allows you to boost-reference the power valve.

[Vettezuki]

Just to clarify, I don't know what a Demon Holley 750 is, but I did recommend a Mighty Demon 750 blower carb. This carb allows you to boost-reference the power valve.

That's good to know. :sm_up_there: Between my day gig, other MG stuff, and trying to light a fire on this project my brain is a little scrambled, especially cuz I'm not so familiar with some of the parts.

[joedls]

That's good to know. :sm_up_there: Between my day gig, other MG stuff, and trying to light a fire on this project my brain is a little scrambled, especially cuz I'm not so familiar with some of the parts.

Hey, it's all good. I'm just kind of a smart-ass. It's all in fun, though.

[Vettezuki]

Hey, it's all good. I'm just kind of a smart-ass. It's all in fun, though.

Now being a smart ass is something I understand very well. :pot_stir: What's really going to be fun is having our little 10 second car. :drive:

[Vettezuki]

I'll be there Sunday if you want me to take a look. We can also pull a head and see what style of valve relief the pistons have. If they have the four half moon style the biggest valve we can run is a 1.94 which is what my AFR 165s have. If they have two larger reliefs then we can run 2.02 which is what the AFR 185 comes with.

Sounds good. Then I can let Troy know all he needs to know to assemble the heads.

[Vettezuki]

Is this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MIGHTY-DEMON-750-ANN-BARRY-GRANT-BLOWER-CARB-WITH-HL_W0QQitemZ8065852009QQcmdZViewItem) the kind of little Gucci bastard you're talking about?


There also seems to be Mighty Demon and Mighty Demon Barry Grant Blower Carbs (as above). Are there good sources to maybe get these refurbished or some a bit less?

[joedls]

Is this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MIGHTY-DEMON-750-ANN-BARRY-GRANT-BLOWER-CARB-WITH-HL_W0QQitemZ8065852009QQcmdZViewItem) the kind of little Gucci bastard you're talking about?


There also seems to be Mighty Demon and Mighty Demon Barry Grant Blower Carbs (as above). Are there good sources to maybe get these refurbished or some a bit less?

Hahaha. Yeah, they are kinda pricey bastards.

[Vettezuki]

Hahaha. Yeah, they are kinda pricey bastards.

I'm sure they're quite well made and worth the price really. It's just a matter of exploring options and budget control. I need to look at all other likely expenses. One thing is for sure, once this thing is put together, I want it to work repeatedly and reliably. I don't want to dick around with a carburetor after every run because I saved a couple hundred bucks. RX-Snake will be a hot lapping brawler.

[joedls]

So, did you guys pull a head and see what kind of pistons you're dealing with? See what you could scavenge to use on the new heads?

[94cobra69ss396]

So, did you guys pull a head and see what kind of pistons you're dealing with? See what you could scavenge to use on the new heads?

No, I forgot about it until I just read this. I did start to pull the water pump and timing cover so we could check to see if there was a P/N on the cam but Ben doesn't have a harmonic balancer puller so we couldn't do it. If Ben can pull a head and take a picture I can tell you wha they are.

[Vettezuki]

BTW, unless I'm a total crack head (possible) and incapable of using a tape measure, the engine will have to swtich from a front to rear sump setup. What parts can be kept (pan?) and what needs to change (pickup?)?

[joedls]

BTW, unless I'm a total crack head (possible) and incapable of using a tape measure, the engine will have to swtich from a front to rear sump setup. What parts can be kept (pan?) and what needs to change (pickup?)?


That's it. The pan and the pick-up.

[BRUTAL64]

Glenn, did you say you had a carb that could be used, or know where we could get one that would be appropriate on the cheap? I'm assuming we could get a used one, and somebody here could rebuild it and set it up for our purpose.

What I said was, I'm sure we could find a Holley somwhere we could use to get things going.:) I do have a 500 CFM Carter laying around. That's half of what we need.:judge:

[Vettezuki]

What I said was, I'm sure we could find a Holley somwhere we could use to get things going.:) I do have a 500 CFM Carter laying around. That's half of what we need.:judge:

I'll keep my eyes open on Craigslist/eBay for a 750 Holley with 4 corner idle set. My understanding is that since the carb goes on top of the blower, it's a "pull through" not a "blow throw" setup and there's effectively no advantage to a "blower carb". Am I thinking correctly?

[joedls]

I'll keep my eyes open on Craigslist/eBay for a 750 Holley with 4 corner idle set. My understanding is that since the carb goes on top of the blower, it's a "pull through" not a "blow throw" setup and there's effectively no advantage to a "blower carb". Am I thinking correctly?

Not exactly. The power valve will not operate correctly without referencing manifold vacuum/boost, causing the engine to run rich during normal operation. Both Holley and Demon has a carb for roots style blowers.

But let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. I need to make sure I can get this blower functional before we go purchasing a carb for it.

[Vettezuki]

Not exactly. The power valve will not operate correctly without referencing manifold vacuum/boost, causing the engine to run rich during normal operation. Both Holley and Demon has a carb for roots style blowers.

But let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. I need to make sure I can get this blower functional before we go purchasing a carb for it.

Roger. I'll put the carb acquisition into a holding pattern until you give clearance. Can you post pics of the parts that are needed? I think you said shaft housing and end plate. I'll do some rooting around and see what I can find.

[joedls]

Roger. I'll put the carb acquisition into a holding pattern until you give clearance. Can you post pics of the parts that are needed? I think you said shaft housing and end plate. I'll do some rooting around and see what I can find.


I'll take some pics tonight when I get home.

[BRUTAL64]

Not exactly. The power valve will not operate correctly without referencing manifold vacuum/boost, causing the engine to run rich during normal operation. Both Holley and Demon has a carb for roots style blowers.

But let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. I need to make sure I can get this blower functional before we go purchasing a carb for it.

Years ago, we were able to get Holleys to work with Roots Blower. This was long before there were "blower" carbs. It is still pull thru as with a NA motor. But I've heard that Blower Carbs are easier to tune for roots. Haven't used one.

The last Roots steet car I built 1990 had a BM and I used a 750 Double pumper and it ran great, no over richness when I tuned the carb. :drink:

[joedls]

Years ago, we were able to get Holleys to work with Roots Blower. This was long before there were "blower" carbs. It is still pull thru as with a NA motor. But I've heard that Blower Carbs are easier to tune for roots. Haven't used one.

The last Roots steet car I built 1990 had a BM and I used a 750 Double pumper and it ran great, no over richness when I tuned the carb. :drink:

Yeah, we used to have distributors with points in them, too. Doesn't mean I still wanna do it.

BTW, Glen, you're an old man!!! :rolling::rolling::rolling:

[BRUTAL64]

BTW, Glen, you're an old man!!! :rolling::rolling::rolling:

You say that here, but can you say that to me in person????:rolling::rolling::rolling:


Actually points are a VERY reliable way to go.:judge:

[Vettezuki]

You say that here, but can you say that to me in person????:rolling::rolling::rolling:


Actually points are a VERY reliable way to go.:judge:

Most things are pretty reliable . . . when they're working properly. :leaving:

[joedls]

You say that here, but can you say that to me in person????:rolling::rolling::rolling:


Actually points are a VERY reliable way to go.:judge:

Sure. Remind me to tell you next time I see you. Wait, you won't have to remind me. I'll just look at you and remember that you're old. :rolling:

[BRUTAL64]

Sure. Remind me to tell you next time I see you. Wait, you won't have to remind me. I'll just look at you and remember that you're old. :rolling:

I should have plenty of time to think of a good come back by that time.:sm_laughing:


I actually used dual points untill 2004. :motorsmile:

[joedls]

I should have plenty of time to think of a good come back by that time.:sm_laughing:


I actually used dual points untill 2004. :motorsmile:

Yeah, the mind isn't as sharp as you get older. How old are you, BTW? I bet I'm not much younger?

[BRUTAL64]

Yeah, the mind isn't as sharp as you get older. How old are you, BTW? I bet I'm not much younger?

Born in 1951:leaving:

[94cobra69ss396]

Born in 1951:leaving:

Look on the bright side Glenn. Your a year younger than my dad. :sm_laughing:

[BRUTAL64]

Look on the brite side Glenn. Your a year yonger than my dad. :sm_laughing:

Damn you could call me Dad.............just don't.:rolling::rolling::rolling::rolling:

[Vettezuki]

Born in 1951:leaving:

Me mum was born in 51. :judge: Look on the bright side, 100 years from now we're probably all dust and it won't matter anyway.

[gunfish]

Born in 1951:leaving:
Thank God someone on here is older than me!:p

[joedls]

Roger. I'll put the carb acquisition into a holding pattern until you give clearance. Can you post pics of the parts that are needed? I think you said shaft housing and end plate. I'll do some rooting around and see what I can find.


As requested

[joedls]

Born in 1951:leaving:


I was born in 1961. You're 10 yrs older than I am. You don't look too bad for a card carrying member of AARP.

[joedls]

Roger. I'll put the carb acquisition into a holding pattern until you give clearance. Can you post pics of the parts that are needed? I think you said shaft housing and end plate. I'll do some rooting around and see what I can find.

I think I'm going to Pomona to the Swapmeet on Sunday. I'll be looking for these parts, among other things. I'll probably take my wife's VW bus and try to sell it there. Anyone wanna go?

[Vettezuki]

I think I'm going to Pomona to the Swapmeet on Sunday. I'll be looking for these parts, among other things. I'll probably take my wife's VW bus and try to sell it there. Anyone wanna go?

Is that like one of those in the morning things? Put me in for tentative but I'm REALLY not a morning person. . .

[joedls]

Is that like one of those in the morning things? Put me in for tentative but I'm REALLY not a morning person. . .


The best deals are always first thing in the morning. I'll be there with the VW first thing, but I'll be there till early afternoon unless someone buys the bus.

[Vettezuki]

The best deals are always first thing in the morning. I'll be there with the VW first thing, but I'll be there till early afternoon unless someone buys the bus.

Define "first thing in the morning". BTW, is that the one where they have the Vette corral. :huh:

[joedls]

Define "first thing in the morning". BTW, is that the one where they have the Vette corral. :huh:


Yup. First thing means I'm usually there by 6.

[Vettezuki]

Yup. First thing means I'm usually there by 6.

Mmm, bed time. . . I give it 50/50. Can you get new bits there as well? Depending on how some other things shake out, maybe I'll get some ignition stuff, starter, rear sump pan, pickup, etc. While Ron has the car for caging I'd like to kick the ball as far down field as possible for engine stuff.

[big2bird]

Mmm, bed time. . . I give it 50/50. Can you get new bits there as well? Depending on how some other things shake out, maybe I'll get some ignition stuff, starter, rear sump pan, pickup, etc. While Ron has the car for caging I'd like to kick the ball as far down field as possible for engine stuff.

All the GOOD stuff is long gone at Pomona, or it's stupid money.
You can buy a brand new MSD streetfire HEI for $150 at Summit.
Starter, you get one cheap at the Zone, and forfeit the $10 core charge
Pan? The cheap Chinese chrome ones leak like sieves.
Get a used Milodon or Canton or Moroso or Hamburger on the bay, or you MIGHT find one at Pomona
. You can always add trap doors and a deep sump to a stocker for little $$$. Melling oil pumps and HV pickups are $40 all day at Top's.

[BRUTAL64]

Is that like one of those in the morning things? Put me in for tentative but I'm REALLY not a morning person. . .

Yea, 5:30 AM is what time I used to get there.:barf:

[Vettezuki]

All the GOOD stuff is long gone at Pomona, or it's stupid money.
You can buy a brand new MSD streetfire HEI for $150 at Summit.
Starter, you get one cheap at the Zone, and forfeit the $10 core charge
Pan? The cheap Chinese chrome ones leak like sieves.
Get a used Milodon or Canton or Moroso or Hamburger on the bay, or you MIGHT find one at Pomona
. You can always add trap doors and a deep sump to a stocker for little $$$. Melling oil pumps and HV pickups are $40 all day at Top's.

Thanks for the heads up bird. What's Top's though?

[94cobra69ss396]

Didn't I read on that V8 RX7 site that we needed a dual sump pan from a fox body like I have on the Cobra? If so, I might be able to get a stock one for free.

[Vettezuki]

Didn't I read on that V8 RX7 site that we needed a dual sump pan from a fox body like I have on the Cobra? If so, I might be able to get a stock one for free.

Ah, yes you did.

http://www.motorgen.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12160&highlight=Sump#post12160

Can you take a peak at the K member and see if it can be swung 180? We have an FC, not an FB and that may not be possible.

[94cobra69ss396]

Ah, yes you did.

http://www.motorgen.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12160&highlight=Sump#post12160

Can you take a peak at the K member and see if it can be swung 180? We have an FC, not an FB and that may not be possible.

That was info for a Gen 1 though and we have a Gen 2. I'll research it some more and see if I can find out.

[BRUTAL64]

Thanks for the heads up bird. What's Top's though?

Tops Auto Supply--brookhust and lincoln, Anaheim. Been using them for many many many years.:bigthumbsup:

[94cobra69ss396]

That was info for a Gen 1 though and we have a Gen 2. I'll research it some more and see if I can find out.

Granny's Speed Shop sells the crossmember to fit the 5.0 in the car but it's almost $400 and it does use the Fox body style oil pan. I think we'll just need to get a Fox body pan and then we can make our own cross member. Here's what their cross member and transmision support for a T5 look like.

http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/2Fbasic1200w.jpg

[Vettezuki]

Granny's Speed Shop sells the crossmember to fit the 5.0 in the car but it's almost $400 and it does use the Fox body style oil pan. I think we'll just need to get a Fox body pan and then we can make our own cross member. Here's what their cross member and transmision support for a T5 look like.

http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/2Fbasic1200w.jpg

Would the T5 Trans Crossmember likely work for our Toploader?

[94cobra69ss396]

Would the T5 Trans Crossmember likely work for our Toploader?

I don't think so but I'm not sure. I'm assuming that the mount would go closer to the engine than it does with the T5 but that's just a guess. I know that when I put the T56 in the Cobra the trans cross member had to be moved back. We can make one though so I wouldn't worry about it. My buddy Joe that helped with the main hoop is excited about the project and wants to be involved. He has everything we need to make the cross members and wants to help.

[Vettezuki]

I don't think so but I'm not sure. I'm assuming that the mount would go closer to the engine than it does with the T5 but that's just a guess. I know that when I put the T56 in the Cobra the trans cross member had to be moved back. We can make one though so I wouldn't worry about it. My buddy Joe that helped with the main hoop is excited about the project and wants to be involved. He has everything we need to make the cross members and wants to help.

Done. You guys can make the cross members. :bigthumbsup: Get him on board here and if he's a driver and wants to run it down the track, he's certainly contributing plenty. :bigthumbsup: While we're at it, I imagine fabbing up some delrin motor mounts could be done as well. :huh:

[Vettezuki]

We need a flywheel. I'm assuming just an iron unit would be best, not only for cost, but because they rarely explode like aluminum ones do and we probably could get away without a scatter shield. :sm_up_there: Maybe just a kevlar blanket, though I have no idea how expensive those are. Don't want anybody losing toes.

[BRUTAL64]

We need a flywheel. I'm assuming just an iron unit would be best, not only for cost, but because they rarely explode like aluminum ones do and we probably could get away without a scatter shield. :sm_up_there: Maybe just a kevlar blanket, though I have no idea how expensive those are. Don't want anybody losing toes.

No scatter shield?? In the early 80's at Shoemaker--a 65 Mustang lined up against a 69 Camaro. The Mustang reved it up, dropped the clutch and BAM-- cut the car nearly in half and broke a girls arm 150 ft away. The flywheel exploded. You WANT a scatter shield.:judge:

Mcleod is the one for new and they are local--ask for George.

[94cobra69ss396]

Done. You guys can make the cross members. :bigthumbsup: Get him on board here and if he's a driver and wants to run it down the track, he's certainly contributing plenty. :bigthumbsup: While we're at it, I imagine fabbing up some delrin motor mounts could be done as well. :huh:

Yes, we can make the mounts as well. Check with Joe to see if this is a 50oz or 28oz crank.

[94cobra69ss396]

No scatter shield?? In the early 80's at Shoemaker--a 65 Mustang lined up against a 69 Camaro. The Mustang reved it up, dropped the clutch and BAM-- cut the car nearly in half and broke a girls arm 150 ft away. The flywheel exploded. You WANT a scatter shield.:judge:

Mcleod is the one and they are local--ask for George.

Agreed, as well as an SFI trans blanket.

[BRUTAL64]

Agreed, as well as an SFI trans blanket.

Blanket--Good call!:drink:

[Vettezuki]

Agreed, as well as an SFI trans blanket.

I'm serious about safety, so done. I didn't think we were radical enough for this to be a real risk, but better to error on the side of not spontaneously amputating spectators' limbs. That wouldn't be very good for promotion. :smack: I'll probably make a forum for safety issues, since there's lots of little details.

[94cobra69ss396]

Blanket--Good call!:drink:

There only about $80 bucks. I run one on the Chevelle. It's not needed for the times we are running but I feel safer with it.

[joedls]

Yes, we can make the mounts as well. Check with Joe to see if this is a 50oz or 28oz crank.

50 oz.

[94cobra69ss396]

Here's the scatter sheild from Summit.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=QTI%2DRM%2D6063&N=700+4294925134+4294839071+4294822099+4294908395+ 4294908331+4294924454+4294840071+4294851527+429490 6189+4294848158+115&autoview=sku

[BRUTAL64]

Here's the scatter sheild from Summit.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=QTI%2DRM%2D6063&N=700+4294925134+4294839071+4294822099+4294908395+ 4294908331+4294924454+4294840071+4294851527+429490 6189+4294848158+115&autoview=sku


One, thing that I didn't like. It said 10.5 clutch is the biggest. That is too small unless were go to dual. I'm running a 12 inch pressure plate and disc built by Mcleod. It uses STOCK pressure and is good to over 500 hp.


We need to to talk to Mcleod.

If we do use a 10.5. Mcleod makes a Borg an Beck 10.5 hat that uses a 10.95 disc. I have one. If we want to use it, you guys can have it. It's been rebuilt and set up by George at Mcleod and not been touched since.:drink:


BTW:
I have a 10.5 chevy disc that is new and is 10 spline just sitting there also.

[BRUTAL64]

I just checked Mcleods web site. Their flywheels only handle the 10.5 hat. But that means the Borg and Beck 10.5 hat for the 10.95 disc will work. So................................................ ..................:drink:

[Vettezuki]

I just checked Mcleods web site. Their flywheels only handle the 10.5 hat. But that means the Borg and Beck 10.5 hat for the 10.95 disc will work. So................................................ ..................:drink:

So, what are you recommending? BTW, joe gave his clutch that he used with this engine and trans. I don't recall the size off the top of my head. But Ron and I looked at it on Sunday and it seemed in pretty good shape, very little wear. Maybe I'll bring with the heads so you can take a peak.

[big2bird]

Mcleods, Lakewood, anything cheap/used/SFI rated. Get offset dowel pins and dial it in.
Mcleod on the clutch is a good call. Centerforce sucks weenies.
Solid Motor mounts help strengthen the chasis. Rubber on the tranny mount.

[enkeivette]

Mcleods, Lakewood, anything cheap/used/SFI rated. Get offset dowel pins and dial it in.
Mcleod on the clutch is a good call. Centerforce sucks weenies.
Solid Motor mounts help strengthen the chasis. Rubber on the tranny mount.

I might have my energy poly trans mount... I'll look for it.

[Vettezuki]

I might have my energy poly trans mount... I'll look for it.

Word. FYI, 94cobra69ss396 will be fabbing up a crossmember, trans and motor mounts. Maybe your poly mount can be adapted??? :huh:

[big2bird]

I might have my energy poly trans mount... I'll look for it.

Those are NFG. They break tailshafts. Solid motor mounts, rubber in rear. The torque needs some give there.:bang:

[enkeivette]

Word. FYI, 94cobra69ss396 will be fabbing up a crossmember, trans and motor mounts. Maybe your poly mount can be adapted??? :huh:

It's a universal mount for Ford and GM transmissions, so it would work. But if Bird says it's NFG, it shall remain in my parts pile. I ditched it simply because it added too much height, and my yoke would tap the tunnel during hard braking.

[94cobra69ss396]

Since we'll be making solid mount mounts we are going to want use a rubber transmission mount. The drivetrain has to have some give somewhere or it'll break the trans.

[Vettezuki]

Since we'll be making solid mount mounts we are going to want use a rubber transmission mount. The drivetrain has to have some give somewhere or it'll break the trans.

Instead of solid motor mounts and rubber trans, I was thinking Delrin all the way through, motor, trans, pinion. Please advise. Derin is very strong and rigid, but has just enough compliance to keep metal fatigue and stress failures from emerging. Gods willing this car will make hundreds and hundreds of passes. I'd like it to be durable as can be (after we blow up the rear end maybe. :judge:). My understanding is that most serious modern draggers have gone away from solid mounts.

[big2bird]

Since we'll be making solid mount mounts we are going to want use a rubber transmission mount. The drivetrain has to have some give somewhere or it'll break the trans.

Ding Ding Ding, We have a winner.:sm_laughing:

[big2bird]

Instead of solid motor mounts and rubber trans, I was thinking Delrin all the way through, motor, trans, pinion. Please advise. Derin is very strong and rigid, but has just enough compliance to keep metal fatigue and stress failures from emerging. Gods willing this car will make hundreds and hundreds of passes. I'd like it to be durable as can be (after we blow up the rear end maybe. :judge:). My understanding is that most serious modern draggers have gone away from solid mounts.

Just stick to solids with a rubber tranny mount. Your going to break alot of stuff, but not those.:smack:

[94cobra69ss396]

Just stick to solids with a rubber tranny mount. Your going to break alot of stuff, but not those.:smack:

I agree. I've been running solid Moroso motor mounts with the stock trans mount for the last 14 years on the Chevelle and I just finally had to replace the trans mount.

[Vettezuki]

Is this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories___Mallory-Unilite-Distributor-4755101-Ford-221-302-NEW_W0QQitemZ270327869037QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20Acces soriesQQddiZ2811QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truc k_Parts_Accessories?hash=item270327869037&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318) Dizzie correct?

[big2bird]

Is this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories___Mallory-Unilite-Distributor-4755101-Ford-221-302-NEW_W0QQitemZ270327869037QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20Acces soriesQQddiZ2811QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truc k_Parts_Accessories?hash=item270327869037&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318) Dizzie correct?

Unilites SUCK:barf:

[BRUTAL64]

Is this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories___Mallory-Unilite-Distributor-4755101-Ford-221-302-NEW_W0QQitemZ270327869037QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20Acces soriesQQddiZ2811QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truc k_Parts_Accessories?hash=item270327869037&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318) Dizzie correct?

Yep, that's the right one. Uni-lites dizzies are not my favorite.

Much better than the one you called me about last night. That one for a 351c will also fit a 385 type FORD BB 429-460. Not for SBFs.

[94cobra69ss396]

Unilites SUCK:barf:

I have to disagree. I ran a Unilite Comp 9000 on the Chevelle for 14 years before it broke. It was great. It finally broke the stop tab for the advance and that's when I changed to the MSD I have now. Again, with the Mallory stuff I was running a total of 36 degrees and turned 121mph on just the engine. When I installed the MSD I had to bump the timing to 43 degrees to turn the same 121mph. I'm not sure why it takes more timing but it does. The only reason I went with MSD is because the Mallory distributor I had is now almost $400. The MSD was only around $160.

[Vettezuki]

I have to disagree. I ran a Unilite Comp 9000 on the Chevelle for 14 years before it broke. It was great. It finally broke the stop tab for the advance and that's when I changed to the MSD I have now. Again, with the Mallory stuff I was running a total of 36 degrees and turned 121mph on just the engine. When I installed the MSD I had to bump the timing to 43 degrees to turn the same 121mph. I'm not sure why it takes more timing but it does. The only reason I went with MSD is because the Mallory distributor I had is now almost $400. The MSD was only around $160.

I don't know what the difference is, but I just checked Summit. The comp 900 is now over $500. This Unilite ( non-Comp 900) is about $270. I'll punt for now.

[94cobra69ss396]

I don't know what the difference is, but I just checked Summit. The comp 900 is now over $500. This Unilite ( non-Comp 900) is about $270. I'll punt for now.

I say just go with MSD stuff. It's less expensive that way. I have it on the Cobra as well as the Chevelle and even though I say I don't like it I haven't had any issue yet besides needing to give the Chevelle more timing. I'm running an MSD Billet distributor on both cars with the 6AL and then I also have the timing retard on the Chevelle for the nitrous. I have the stuff on the Cobra for 2 years.

[Vettezuki]

I say just go with MSD stuff. It's less expensive that way. I have it on the Cobra as well as the Chevelle and even though I say I don't like it I haven't had any issue yet besides needing to give the Chevelle more timing. I'm running an MSD Billet distributor on both cars with the 6AL and then I also have the timing retard on the Chevelle for the nitrous. I have the stuff on the Cobra for 2 years.

Here's (http://motorgen.com/forum/showthread.php?p=13016&highlight=ignition#post13016) what Joe was suggesting. Looks like some pretty good stuff, with a "pretty good stuff" price tag. :smack: Other than the 6AL (whcih there seems to be a couple choices), any specific recommendations for a an appropriate level of function with a little lower cost?

[BRUTAL64]

Here's (http://motorgen.com/forum/showthread.php?p=13016&highlight=ignition#post13016) what Joe was suggesting. Looks like some pretty good stuff, with a "pretty good stuff" price tag. :smack: Other than the 6AL (whcih there seems to be a couple choices), any specific recommendations for a an appropriate level of function with a little lower cost?

A little question. Why do we feel we need a mulitspark box??? Hell, it only does the multi spark thing to about 2,500 rpm then goes back to a single spark after that.:sm_up_there:

[Vettezuki]

A little question. Why do we feel we need a mulitspark box??? Hell, it only does the multi spark thing to about 2,500 rpm then goes back to a single spark after that.:sm_up_there:

I don't know much about this old school ignition stuff. But, if we don't need a multispark, it frees up a little budget for perhaps one step higher Dizzie, like the one Joe pointed out as opposed to an entry level one. I'd certainly like to be done with ignition for as far below $500 as possible TCI, including wires.

[94cobra69ss396]

Here's (http://motorgen.com/forum/showthread.php?p=13016&highlight=ignition#post13016) what Joe was suggesting. Looks like some pretty good stuff, with a "pretty good stuff" price tag. :smack: Other than the 6AL (whcih there seems to be a couple choices), any specific recommendations for a an appropriate level of function with a little lower cost?

That's all good but it's not needed for what we are going to do with the car. We can use a 6AL instead of the BTM (which is about $150) less because we can manually set the timing to what we want. We'll be using a mix of 91 and race fuel I'm sure so we don't have to worry about detonation which is why most guys run the BTM.

We also don't need the electronic adjustments. We can just change the springs to adjust the amount of timing and when it comes in. The mechanical Billet is also about $150 less. We also don't need vacuum advance because it will not be criusing on the streets.

The coil is fine though. :sm_laughing:

[94cobra69ss396]

I don't know much about this old school ignition stuff. But, if we don't need a multispark, it frees up a little budget for perhaps one step higher Dizzie, like the one Joe pointed out as opposed to an entry level one. I'd certainly like to be done with ignition for as far below $500 as possible TCI, including wires.

Without it the blower will blow out the spark. I had this happen on the Cobra with only 10psi of boost. I added the 6AL and no more blow out. If you want to try it without one we can we'll just need to close up the spark plug gap but I recommend that we install one to start with.

[BRUTAL64]

Without it the blower will blow out the spark. I had this happen on the Cobra with only 10psi of boost. I added the 6AL and no more blow out. If you want to try it without one we can we'll just need to close up the spark plug gap but I recommend that we install one to start with.


Blow out the spark? What gap were you running on your plugs?

[BRUTAL64]

What kinda money to you want to spend?


I know you don't want to hear this, but back in the 80's we ran STOCK (recruved) dizzies with a good coil with roots blowers. We ran a .035 to .045 plug gap with out any problems.

If we are going to spending money for real trick stuff is fine, but lets be sure we need to. So why don't we find the Dizzy we want to run and go from there. Just my 3 cents.:judge:

[94cobra69ss396]

Blow out the spark? What gap were you running on your plugs?

.035.

[BRUTAL64]

.035.

Ok, then what MIGHT have helped you was the CD part of the 6A box increasing your dwell on the spark and voltage to jump the gap with the cylinder pressures you are running. Just another thought.:D


Multi spark is only good for low rpms. It only really helps because it can fire a cylinder with poor fuel air mixture. But only at the lower rpms.

[big2bird]

MSD makes a "Streetfire" HEI that is $150.00 brand new, all day long.
I can install any curve you want, or pin it at 36*, or just use light springs.

[big2bird]

Again, with the Mallory stuff I was running a total of 36 degrees and turned 121mph on just the engine. When I installed the MSD I had to bump the timing to 43 degrees to turn the same 121mph. I'm not sure why it takes more timing but it does.

That makes ZERO sense to me.Zip,nada,zero, no comphrende.:huh:

[BRUTAL64]

MSD makes a "Streetfire" HEI that is $150.00 brand new, all day long.
I can install any curve you want, or pin it at 36*, or just use light springs.

You just love those "HEIs" don't you?:p


I don't like the coil in cap idea. But the spacing of the contacts in the cap is good. The wider the distance the better.:thumbs_up:


I just found an HEI dizzy in CIs catalog for $94.95.:rolling:

[big2bird]

You just love those "HEIs" don't you?:p


I don't like the coil in cap idea. But the spacing of the contacts in the cap is good. The wider the distance the better.:thumbs_up:

Frankly, I still love my point dizzys. But as for HEI, the magnetic pickup is FAR superior to any optical pickup. Remember Optispark?:suicide:

I guess these guys may not know I have a Sun Dizzy machine.;)

[BRUTAL64]

Frankly, I still love my point dizzys. But as for HEI, the magnetic pickup is FAR superior to any optical pickup. Remember Optispark?:suicide:

I guess these guys may not know I have a Sun Dizzy machine.;)

Opti-no-spark????:laugh:

I remembered you have the Sun Machine. :drink:


I will be bringing you my Dizzy in the NEAR future. :drive:

[94cobra69ss396]

That makes ZERO sense to me.Zip,nada,zero, no comphrende.:huh:

That's how I feel. But that's the way it is. I only ran 117 with it at 36. I them bumped it to 38 and ran 119. Then I bumped it to 43 and ran 121.

Here's the video from that day and yes, that is my Cobra racing my Chevelle. My brother drove the Cobra in the first pass and then the Chevelle when he I raced.

Chevelle vs Cobra (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Race-1-my-94-Cobra-with_111151.htm)

[94cobra69ss396]

Frankly, I still love my point dizzys. But as for HEI, the magnetic pickup is FAR superior to any optical pickup. Remember Optispark?:suicide:

I guess these guys may not know I have a Sun Dizzy machine.;)

Wasn't that the Ford ignition that they used in the early 80's?

[BRUTAL64]

Wasn't that the Ford ignition that they used in the early 80's?

The GM Optispark is an optically-triggered ignition distributor used on the LT1, LT4 and L99 engines.:drink:

[94cobra69ss396]

I just looked it up and it was the Duraspark ignition that I was thinking of.

[big2bird]

I just looked it up and it was the Duraspark ignition that I was thinking of.

That was crap. Same with the "Thin Film Ignition" POS.

[Vettezuki]

Ok, so here's how I see it.

I'll pass on the Multispark for now, because it's the kind of thing that can be easily inserted into the ignition system later if it proves necessarry.

So as I understand it, we have two ways to go

1 - Dizzy and External Coil
2- Coil in Cap

Right? What are the pros and cons of those setups?

[BRUTAL64]

That was crap. Same with the "Thin Film Ignition" POS.

OK, you got me on the one. What is Thin Film Ignition???:huh:

[94cobra69ss396]

Ok, so here's how I see it.

I'll pass on the Multispark for now, because it's the kind of thing that can be easily inserted into the ignition system later if it proves necessarry.

So as I understand it, we have two ways to go

1 - Dizzy and External Coil
2- Coil in Cap

Right? What are the pros and cons of those setups?

The only advantage is the HEI will be cleaner to install because the coil is in the cap. That's about it. Phil and I were looking for an HEI at the Hot Rod swap meet in Long Beach last weekend but he didn't like the new ones that they had there. They looked cheap (remember he has worked Chevy's for the past 16 years) but then again we did see brand new ones for $70. He ended up buy a used stock HEI for $5 so he could repair the stock one he has already.

[big2bird]

OK, you got me on the one. What is Thin Film Ignition???:huh:

That's that stupid TFI ignition module POS that plugged into the early 80's HEI dizzy. My 84 Lincoln had that. There was even a class action suit about it.

[BRUTAL64]

The only advantage is the HEI will be cleaner to install because the coil is in the cap. That's about it. Phil and I were looking for an HEI at the Hot Rod swap meet in Long Beach last weekend but he didn't like the new ones that they had there. They looked cheap (remember he has worked Chevy's for the past 16 years) but then again we did see brand new ones for $70. He ended up buy a used stock HEI for $5 so he could repair the stock one he has already.

Don't forget the spacing of the contacts in the cap. The wider the better.;)

[big2bird]

Ok, so here's how I see it.

I'll pass on the Multispark for now, because it's the kind of thing that can be easily inserted into the ignition system later if it proves necessarry.

So as I understand it, we have two ways to go

1 - Dizzy and External Coil
2- Coil in Cap

Right? What are the pros and cons of those setups?

Gm had coil in cap. The Ford HEI used an external coil. It really doesn't make a big dif at all.

[Vettezuki]

Gm had coil in cap. The Ford HEI used an external coil. It really doesn't make a big dif at all.

BTW, unless I'm totally missing it, there is no MSD Street Fire for Ford. :huh:

[94cobra69ss396]

Don't forget the spacing of the contacts in the cap. The wider the better.;)

Yes, but at 6000rpms I don't think that will be an issue. Besides most of the new distributors come with the larger caps anyways.

[Vettezuki]

Ok, I've been poking around, what about this (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MSD-8598&view=1&N=700+150+4294881256+4294908331+4294840126+4294881 241+4294881237+) MSD HEI for Ford? So it includes the coil, which is external???

[big2bird]

BTW, unless I'm totally missing it, there is no MSD Street Fire for Ford. :huh:

This would be virtually equal in design.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MAA%2D8556701C&N=700+4294908331+4294840125+115&autoview=sku

I'll see what else I can find.

[big2bird]

Ok, I've been poking around, what about this (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MSD-8598&view=1&N=700+150+4294881256+4294908331+4294840126+4294881 241+4294881237+) MSD HEI for Ford? So it includes the coil, which is external???

That's a fine looking unit as well.

When you consider the coil,cap,rotor,picup parts, it's really just $100 for the drive. Not a bad deal for new. Just a melonised gear is $35.00

[big2bird]

Yes, but at 6000rpms I don't think that will be an issue. Besides most of the new distributors come with the larger caps aways.

Post spacing is about crossfire at higher voltages.

[BRUTAL64]

Post spacing is about crossfire at higher voltages.

Cross fire can blow an engine real fast. A lot of spun rod bearings are caused by crossfiring. Before anyone disputes this --Smokey discovered this as a cause of spun rod bearing on his Chevy race engines back in the sixites.:drink:

[Vettezuki]

I think I'm going to Pomona to the Swapmeet on Sunday. I'll be looking for these parts, among other things. I'll probably take my wife's VW bus and try to sell it there. Anyone wanna go?

Not gonna make it out. I need to finish working on my dad's truck which has turned into one of those not so fun projects. :smack:

[big2bird]

Not gonna make it out. I need to finish working on my dad's truck which has turned into one of those not so fun projects. :smack:

Try rebuilding a Winnebago for 6 months. I am replacing paneling now. Rear leaf springs (12,000GVW) are next I am SO tired of this thing. (But the $$ are good):thumbs_up:

[Vettezuki]

What kind of fuel pump set up do we need?

I'm still considering between using a drop in the stock tank or getting serious and putting in a little fuel cell. But how much flow/pressure, etc. Sorry don't knwo much about this. All I know is that it's very low pressure.

Since we haven't bought a carb yet, and maybe a carb will flow enough for this small of an engine/blower, we could set it up for E85. It's basically race gas at the price of Super, with lots of awesome properties for forced induction. Do you guys want to consider this? I can buy it with CornFed in larger quantities and store it. We're going to have to transport fuel anyway. . . and it adds a little flavor. The major advantage for us is that it would allow to run a lot more timing (it's about 105 octane) and since it's 85% alcohol, it will massively cool the intake charge.

[Vettezuki]

Of course, there's no point to go after the advantages of E85 for more power, if we're going to be at the blocks limit with a simple mix of super and Race Gas or Torco. At what BHP do these blocks tend to do naughty things?

[big2bird]

What kind of fuel pump set up do we need?

I'm still considering between using a drop in the stock tank or getting serious and putting in a little fuel cell. But how much flow/pressure, etc. Sorry don't knwo much about this. All I know is that it's very low pressure.

Since we haven't bought a carb yet, and maybe a carb will flow enough for this small of an engine/blower, we could set it up for E85. It's basically race gas at the price of Super, with lots of awesome properties for forced induction. Do you guys want to consider this? I can buy it with CornFed in larger quantities and store it. We're going to have to transport fuel anyway. . . and it adds a little flavor.

4PSI, about a 100 GPH will support 600 HP. An Edelbrock/Carter racing mech pump is fine. The cheaper rail mount elec pumps are fine. Elec has the advantge of being hooked into a kill switch.(Both about $100)

[big2bird]

I forgot to mention I have a large Spal fan we can use/you can have. Have your buddy look for a used elec pump at Pomona.
We used to run with no belts, and a marine battery in the trunk for traction. Car ran all day on a full charge.:D

[Vettezuki]

I forgot to mention I have a large Spal fan we can use/you can have. Have your buddy look for a used elec pump at Pomona.
We used to run with no belts, and a marine battery in the trunk for traction. Car ran all day on a full charge.:D

Que es Spal fan? I have an electric fan that was donated by kdracer73. Size-wise it looks like it'll fit in the space for the rad just about perfect. :huh: Good to keep in mind though.

How much are marine batteries? Please provide a link to wat you're talking about as I know nuting.

[big2bird]

Que es Spal fan? I have an electric fan that was donated by kdracer73. Size-wise it looks like it'll fit in the space for the rad just about perfect. :huh: Good to keep in mind though.

How much are marine batteries? Please provide a link to wat you're talking about as I know nuting.

http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marineflyer.php?id=8

That thing will put 120lbs over the rear axle, and run that car all day long on a charge.
No alt. No lights. Ignition draws approx 4 amps.
As I remember, we didn't even run a fan. Just a 12volt bilge pump for coolant circ. (Pretty advanced for 1973,huh?) I am quite sure the harmonic balancer didn't even have a pulley on it. :smack:
I don't have 1 dam picture of that car, dammit.

[enkeivette]

This is a budget project isn't it? We're going with a carb, the stock tank and a mechanical pump will be fine. I'd consider bending some 3/8 hardline for it, but that's about all that she'll need.

[joedls]

I picked up an oil pan from an 87 Mustang today for $5 at the swap meet, if you wanna use that. I also picked up some other goodies for my 68 GT/CS. Unfortunately, no 174 blower parts.

[Vettezuki]

I picked up an oil pan from an 87 Mustang today for $5 at the swap meet, if you wanna use that. I also picked up some other goodies for my 68 GT/CS. Unfortunately, no 174 blower parts.

I'm growing slightly concerned about finding the necessary parts for the 174. We'll need to have a backup.

[big2bird]

I'm growing slightly concerned about finding the necessary parts for the 174. We'll need to have a backup.

Just distract Adam while I pull that blower off his Vette. :D