Verdict is in, I should be in 700hp territory.

[enkeivette]

With the stock diff!

Fact: for every 14.7 lbs of boost an engine will double it's naturally aspirated output. A 300 HP engine natrually aspirated will make 600 HP with 14.7 lbs of boost. Of course there are increased pumping loses etc but you get the point.

In your example the engine made 432 Hp with 5 lbs of boost or 1.33 it's naturally aspirated value. This is 432/1.33 or 324 naturally aspirated.

With 13 lbs of boost you are 13/14.7 or 1.87 the naturally aspirated value. This puts you at 324*1.87 = 608 HP at rear wheels or 711 HP at the crank (using 17% loss)

Plus any gains you made from tuning or tweaking but boost makes up for many ills. AFR of 15:1 you are lucky your rings and pistons are still alive! Blowers like to run rich so it is posible you pciked up 30 - 50 HP going to 12:1 alone.

Which is interesting because the motor made 315 at the wheels NA with the similar crappy AFR when I made 432.

[joedls]

It's not that simple. Power increases due to boost are not linear. There are many other factors in play.

[Vettezuki]

It's not that simple. Power increases due to boost are not linear. There are many other factors in play.

The doubling per one bar of pressure is a rough, but fair rule of thumb. Obviously things like intercooling make quite a difference, but it gets you in the ball park.

[joedls]

The doubling per one bar of pressure is a rough, but fair rule of thumb. Obviously things like intercooling make quite a difference, but it gets you in the ball park.

All things being equal, that may be true, but common sense says all things can't be equal. You are increasing air charge temps, which you have to compensate for by pulling timing, adding fuel, etc... You can run much more timing on 5 lbs of boost than you can on 12. You can also run leaner at 5 PSI than you can at 12. You also have to take into consideration the blower. How much parasitic loss are you going to experience from having to turn that blower? That will vary with the blower, but every blower will have some parasitic loss. If you add an intercooler, then some of these factors don't have as much of an effect. But we were talking abot enkeivette's car, which I believe doesn't have one.

[BADDASSC6]

That is a rough rule of thumb that losses it's accuracy as you increase boost. The fact is due to heat of compression, the higher the boost the more heat is generated and the increase in the mass flowrate of the air gets smaller. Just because the pressure gage reads 1 bar doesn't mean that you are getting double the mass flow rate.

[BADDASSC6]

I put my money at 550whp!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vettezuki]

I put my money at 550whp!!!!!!!!!!!!

Having ridden in the car and making a wild seat of the pants judgement, that's what I'd guess too: 550-600. Still the fastest accelerating car I've been in. :thumbs_up:

[94cobra69ss396]

I put my money at 550whp!!!!!!!!!!!!

I second that.

Ben, you need to go for a ride in the Chevelle on the bottle with the slicks on.

[joedls]

Still the fastest accelerating car I've been in. :thumbs_up:


Ben, you need to go for a ride in the Chevelle on the bottle with the slicks on.


I'd put my money on the Chevelle.

[Vettezuki]

. . . Ben, you need to take the Chevelle for a ride on the bottle with the slicks on.

Absolutely. :nuts:

[Vettezuki]

I'd put my money on the Chevelle.

I would too. Not because of potential, but the Vette is manual and his trans/clutch is in a non-ideal condition. Shifts take for-ev-er. Also his suspension is setup for handling (i.e., minimal weight transfer). I'm not setup as hard and I don't hook worth a crap on a mere 390WHP. My 60' are routinely 2.0x" on MT ET Streets.

[94cobra69ss396]

I would too. Not because of potential, but the Vette is manual and his trans/clutch is in a non-ideal condition. Shifts take for-ev-er. Also his suspension is setup for handling (i.e., minimal weight transfer). I'm not setup as hard and I don't hook worth a crap on a mere 390WHP. My 60' are routinely 2.0x" on MT ET Streets.

My best is a 1.46. Maybe after we tune the cars you can cruise by my house and I'll through the slicks on and give you a quick ride.

[94cobra69ss396]

Adam, you need to come out with us so we can see what your car will put down.

[Vettezuki]

My best is a 1.46. Maybe after we tune the cars you can cruise by my house and I'll through the slicks on and give you a quick ride.

Sounds good. I wonder if I should come out on another day to check back pressure or if it's easy enough to do at GTR on the day. Theoretically it should only take a couple minutes to pop one of the front O2s, which are easily accessible, but you just never know until you've done it.

[enkeivette]

I'd put my money on the Chevelle.

With slicks on his and not on mine, me too. But how fair is that to Cambria?

Btw, don't forget guys that I am being conservative here. I'm NOT adding any hp to that estimate from the bigger lift, more duration, port matched intake, a 12:1 AFR over the old 15:1 AFR, or the fact that this time I have sealed head gaskets and intake manifold gaskets!



Thanks for the compliment Ben. :beer: Yours is the fastest cleanest C3 I've ever been in. And it has flippin AC!!!

[enkeivette]

Adam, you need to come out with us so we can see what your car will put down.

Agreed. But not for $60. I'd rather spend $130 on an intercooler and start that project than waste $60 to get a penis measurement, err, I mean a hp rating.

It's not like I'm going to allow some shop to attempt to tune my car. It's mine! Stay away. So hp wise, a dyno run is worth nothing to me.

[enkeivette]

Btw, SSCobra, your experience alone would yield a better ET. I'm not trying to mess with your turf here, because when it comes to drag experience, I have none.

Further, the Chevelle is a purpose drag car isn't it? I think the Cobra would be a better comparison to Cambria. I've never put anything higher than 91 in Cambria, and I never will. Not my intent with the car. Her job is to be able to punish a C6 on the freeway from a roll and look good as I drive the gf around on the weekends.

[Vettezuki]

. . . So hp wise, a dyno run is worth nothing to me.

We're calling you out. You ain't making that much power, and until you get your unit measured, it's just a bunch of compressed hot air. :pot_stir:

:lmfao:

[Leedom]

:gatlin:We're calling you out. You ain't making that much power, and until you get your unit measured, it's just a bunch of compressed hot air. :pot_stir:

:lmfao:

Them there's fightin' words!!

[joedls]

With slicks on his and not on mine, me too. But how fair is that to Cambria?




Put slicks on it. I'd still bet on Ron's Chevelle.

[Vettezuki]

Put slicks on it. I'd still bet on Ron's Chevelle.

I would too. Because he'd go about 5' before his rear end would be in a couple hundred pieces.

[joedls]

I would too. Because he'd go about 5' before his rear end would be in a couple hundred pieces.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[94cobra69ss396]

Further, the Chevelle is a purpose drag car isn't it? I think the Cobra would be a better comparison to Cambria. I've never put anything higher than 91 in Cambria, and I never will. Not my intent with the car. Her job is to be able to punish a C6 on the freeway from a roll and look good as I drive the gf around on the weekends.

The Chevelle wasn't built specifically for drag racing. It has stock big block springs in the front with a coil and half cut off, stock rear spring, stock 12 bolt with stock axles and a stock posi with 3.73 gear. The only thing specific as far as the suspension is concerned is a set of 90/10 shocks in the front that are about 17 years old. Sure, it's gutted but that wasn't for drag racing, that's because I was in the process of restoring it and ran out of funds. I have all the interior for it in my shed. I did install some safety things such as the aluminum rear package tray and the roll cage.

Also, the Chevelle only put down 530rwhp on a 150 shot so if your at where you think you are you should be 100rwhp more than me and you have a lighter car. As for the dyno test, I don't have AFR gauge so I wanted to run it on the dyno to see where it's at and also to get the timing dialed in. I spent about 2 hours tuning it on Friday and it's running really good so I probably will not run it on the dyno and just see what it does at the track.

I think you need to take Ben up on the offer to barrow his ET Streets because I think you and I need to run on the 31st. I'll even run you on just motor for the first run.

[SeanPlunk]

The Chevelle wasn't built specifically for drag racing. It has stock big block springs in the front with a coil and half cut off, stock rear spring, stock 12 bolt with stock axles and a stock posi with 3.73 gear. The only thing specific as far as the suspension is concerned is a set of 90/10 shocks in the front that are about 17 years old. Sure, it's gutted but that wasn't for drag racing, that's because I was in the process of restoring it and ran out of funds. I have all the interior for it in my shed. I did install some safety things such as the aluminum rear package tray and the roll cage.

Also, the Chevelle only put down 530rwhp on a 150 shot so if your at where you think you are you should be 100rwhp more than me and you have a lighter car. As for the dyno test, I don't have AFR gauge so I wanted to run it on the dyno to see where it's at and also to get the timing dialed in. I spent about 2 hours tuning it on Friday and it's running really good so I probably will not run it on the dyno and just see what it does at the track.

I think you need to take Ben up on the offer to barrow his ET Streets because I think you and I need to run on the 31st. I'll even run you on just motor for the first run.

On ET Streets I think Enkei's rearend would last less than 60ft ;)

[joedls]

I think you need to take Ben up on the offer to barrow his ET Streets because I think you and I need to run on the 31st. I'll even run you on just motor for the first run.

Adam, you don't have a hair on your ass if you don't take him up on his challenge.

:pot_stir:

[Vettezuki]

On ET Streets I think Enkei's rearend would last less than 60ft ;)

Given the nature of wheel hop on old Vettes, low pressure ET streets might actually be safer than hard street tires. I can spin them with a lot less power (especially at Fontana), but they've never hopped. Street tires just bounce. If he feathers out on the streets his rear end will be ok. He'll get killed in the 60' by Ron for sure. I doubt Adam's Vette could break 2.2 60' on the Streets, Ron is down to 1.5"s :hail: Forget it. MPH vs. MPH will be the only comparison. . . that's if Adam can get off clean fast shifts.

Adam I hope you come out to the drags just for shits and giggles, but at this time it's not a serious objective comparison of anything.

[BADDASSC6]

The Chevelle wasn't built specifically for drag racing. It has stock big block springs in the front with a coil and half cut off, stock rear spring, stock 12 bolt with stock axles and a stock posi with 3.73 gear. The only thing specific as far as the suspension is concerned is a set of 90/10 shocks in the front that are about 17 years old. Sure, it's gutted but that wasn't for drag racing, that's because I was in the process of restoring it and ran out of funds. I have all the interior for it in my shed. I did install some safety things such as the aluminum rear package tray and the roll cage.

Also, the Chevelle only put down 530rwhp on a 150 shot so if your at where you think you are you should be 100rwhp more than me and you have a lighter car. As for the dyno test, I don't have AFR gauge so I wanted to run it on the dyno to see where it's at and also to get the timing dialed in. I spent about 2 hours tuning it on Friday and it's running really good so I probably will not run it on the dyno and just see what it does at the track.

I think you need to take Ben up on the offer to barrow his ET Streets because I think you and I need to run on the 31st. I'll even run you on just motor for the first run.

Ok you wrote a lot, but didn't say much. Here is the condensed version:

You have a gutted, caged, big block chevelle on nitrous and slicks that's not "really built" for drag racing??????

I understand what you are saying about the axles and rear end, but you don't need the super strong billet stuff when you take ALL the weight out of the car. How long have you been racing this car? Any form of racing other than drag racing? Oh wait the 3.73s for for better gas mileage and the removed hood was for better cooling in that LA stop and go traffic.

You will crush Adam and anyone else on motorgen. Want to be fair race him in the Mustang like you did me.

[Leedom]

You guys smell that? That is the smell of testosterone and octane!!

[94cobra69ss396]

Ok you wrote a lot, but didn't say much. Here is the condensed version:

You have a gutted, caged, big block chevelle on nitrous and slicks that's not "really built" for drag racing??????

I understand what you are saying about the axles and rear end, but you don't need the super strong billet stuff when you take ALL the weight out of the car. How long have you been racing this car? Any form of racing other than drag racing? Oh wait the 3.73s for for better gas mileage and the removed hood was for better cooling in that LA stop and go traffic.

You will crush Adam and anyone else on motorgen. Want to be fair race him in the Mustang like you did me.

So if you add slicks to your Vette it's now built for drag racing? I have a stock suspension Chevelle, how is that built for drag racing? The roll bar was installed because I had to. The car was too fast and I got kicked off the track. If you ran under an 11.50 you would have to install one too. Would that make your Vette a car built for drag racing? I don't think so.

Also, the Chevelle is a stock big block car. It's not like I added a big block to a small block car so I could go drag race it. You also mention not having a hood. The reason it doesn't have a hood is because I had a fiberglass one and it was cracked. When I started to restore the car I trashed the damaged hood because I was going to buy a new one. I haven't had the money to buy a new one so I drive it without one. And since you mentioned it, as a matter of fact it did run cooler without the hood on in traffic. However, it was quicker in the quarter with it on.

My point was that the suspension is not built for drag racing. It's just stock. I installed the 3.73's back around 1995 when the car was my daily driver. If I was going to build it strictly for drag racing the car would be a lot faster. I would install a 4.56 gear with a spool, a 4500 stall, Moroso drag spring front and rear, remove the power steering, install lexan windows and so on. Not to mention that I wouldn't have the little tiny cam I have now.

You also brought up the Cobra which is also not built for drag racing but it's gone 11.69 at 119.

[Vettezuki]

You guys smell that? That is the smell of testosterone and octane!!

No. That is the smell of Carlos. Wait, there the same thing. :smack:

[Vettezuki]

Ok you wrote a lot, but didn't say much. Here is the condensed version:

You have a gutted, caged, big block chevelle on nitrous and slicks that's not "really built" for drag racing??????

I understand what you are saying about the axles and rear end, but you don't need the super strong billet stuff when you take ALL the weight out of the car. How long have you been racing this car? Any form of racing other than drag racing? Oh wait the 3.73s for for better gas mileage and the removed hood was for better cooling in that LA stop and go traffic.

You will crush Adam and anyone else on motorgen. Want to be fair race him in the Mustang like you did me.

Would you say that your Vette is "really" built for road racing? We may be talking about similar high levels, but not all out, no holds barred purpose built. These are both cars that can legally be (well, sorta) driven on the street.

And the fastest car on Motorgen, though not by a regular user, is Paul Ho's Turbo Civic that runs 9s at over 150. That's a purpose built car.

[94cobra69ss396]

Would you say that your Vette is "really" built for road racing? We may be talking about similar high levels, but not all out, no holds barred purpose built. These are both cars that can legally be (well, sorta) driven on the street.

And the fastest car on Motorgen, though not by a regular user, is Paul Ho's Turbo Civic that runs 9s at over 150. That's a purpose built car.

Carlos' Vette has way more suspension work done to it than the Chevelle does.

[enkeivette]

I would too. Because he'd go about 5' before his rear end would be in a couple hundred pieces.

:thumbs_up:

You have a gutted, caged, big block chevelle on nitrous and slicks that's not "really built" for drag racing??????

:smack:


MPH vs. MPH will be the only comparison. . . that's if Adam can get off clean fast shifts.

That's just what I was thinking before I read it.

First of all, calm down guys. I was excited that guys on speedtalk and Vettemod told me that I should be in 700hp territory. That's all.

Second of all, I said several times that I think I would lose to CobraSS for several reasons, but what do I care? I'll race him. What am I going to cry if I run a 12 sec 1/4 mile for the first time in my life with a motor that I built that runs on 91 octane and I lose to a guy with experience who runs 10s on nitrous? Prooob not.

Sure I'll race him. But only if we both fill up with 91 at the same gas station before we head into the strip and only if we both run street tires. But please do use your nitrous, if it was built for nitrous, use the nitrous. In fact you should use it in 1st gear so you understand my traction pain.

That's cute that someone can run 9 seconds in a Civic, but unless it's on 91 octane with street tires I really don't care. Not a fair comparison.

If you guys think I'm closer to 550whp... ok... cool! Should I cry about that? I get a 550whp conservative estimate? That's still over 650hp. Oh please, someone hand me a tissue box.



Finally, Ben, suck my balls. I prob have a shorter shift throw than anyone on this forum. I have a pro 5.0 with a custom 2" stick. I was shifting slow so I didn't lose traction and slide us into a wall. Like I told you, even 2nd to 3rd will break it loose.

[enkeivette]

Let me set out my calendar right now so no one calls me a coward if I can't show.

I have midterms and won't be back in oc till after the 18th. Then I'll be in SD Halloween weekend for a party.

After that I should be free for a while till finals.

Also, must go during the day. Well established that I am poor. Must be sub $40. No $100 private track nights. On that note, I think the most logical thing to do would be to just put Cambria on the dyno during Sean's scheduled cheap dyno day. Takes my shitty tires/ driving out of the equation.

[enkeivette]

I think it's really funny that Sean was teasing me just a few years ago about having only 185hp. And that we all thought his 315hp Camaro was a rocket.

[Vettezuki]

Finally, Ben, suck my balls. I prob have a shorter shift throw than anyone on this forum. I have a pro 5.0 with a custom 2" stick. I was shifting slow so I didn't lose traction and slide us into a wall. Like I told you, even 2nd to 3rd will break it loose.

Then it ain't much use is it. :smack: BTW, I have a Lou's short stick on a McLeod Silk Stix so, what-evvaah.

[Vettezuki]

Let me set out my calendar right now so no one calls me a coward if I can't show.

I have midterms and won't be back in oc till after the 18th. Then I'll be in SD Halloween weekend for a party.

After that I should be free for a while till finals.

Also, must go during the day. Well established that I am poor. Must be sub $40. No $100 private track nights. On that note, I think the most logical thing to do would be to just put Cambria on the dyno during Sean's scheduled cheap dyno day. Takes my shitty tires/ driving out of the equation.

October 31 (Halloween), daytime, $20.

[BADDASSC6]

Carlos' Vette has way more suspension work done to it than the Chevelle does.

Ron, I love your cars and I respect what you do with them especially on the budget you allow yourself. But you stripped down your Chevelle and caged it. I have the full interior, A/C, radio, sound deadening, etc.... I haven't committed my car to road racing like the chevelle is committed to drag racing.

Ben, I don't agree that the vette and the Chevelle are on the same level of tune. My vette has a ton of room for improvement. Areo package, weight reduction, metal bushings, cage, big brakes, etc......

Adam, I think you would lose even if you were driving the chevelle and Ron was driving the chambrio. He treed me by .5 secs in the stang and cut and awesome 60ft (on ET streets). I wasn't able to run him down even though there I had 4 mph on him.

[enkeivette]

Adam, I think you would lose even if you were driving the chevelle and Ron was driving the chambrio. He treed me by .5 secs in the stang and cut and awesome 60ft (on ET streets). I wasn't able to run him down even though there I had 4 mph on him.

:surrender:

But you had 4mph on him? How much hp are you making?

[94cobra69ss396]

Sure I'll race him. But only if we both fill up with 91 at the same gas station before we head into the strip and only if we both run street tires. But please do use your nitrous, if it was built for nitrous, use the nitrous. In fact you should use it in 1st gear so you understand my traction pain.

I have to run 100 in the Chevelle due to the 12.25:1 compression. I know what it's like to drive on street tires. I drive the Chevelle all the time on the street tires and only install the slicks when I take it to the track. On the street tires it will break the tires loose in third until you reach about 110mph. I feel your pain.

[BADDASSC6]

:surrender:

But you had 4mph on him? How much hp are you making?

The Mustang not the Chevelle.

[94cobra69ss396]

:surrender:

But you had 4mph on him? How much hp are you making?

I only ran 116 that day and I usually run 118. Now that I retuned I turned 119 and that was on a 90 degree day. I think I can get 120 on a cool day.

Carlos has a lighter car with less drag. I actually think that I'm making like 10rwhp more than he is.

[BADDASSC6]

The two cars are close. It would take some practice to beat him consistently.
1) he's quick on the tree
2) I miss shift 1/6 of the time.

[enkeivette]

I have to run 100 in the Chevelle due to the 12.25:1 compression. I know what it's like to drive on street tires. I drive the Chevelle all the time on the street tires and only install the slicks when I take it to the track. On the street tires it will break the tires loose in third until you reach about 110mph. I feel your pain.

In that case I'll race your Cobra, but I'm not doing a pride race with any car that runs race gas. Like Ben said, 9 second Civic, different ballpark. This is the car I use to drive the gf around on the weekends, fill it up at any station.

[BADDASSC6]

In that case I'll race your Cobra, but I'm not doing a pride race with any car that runs race gas. Like Ben said, 9 second Civic, different ballpark. This is the car I use to drive the gf around on the weekends, fill it up at any station.

What tire are you planning on running?

[enkeivette]

Obviously I could bolt a smaller pulley on, let it scream at 19lbs of boost, fill up with race gas and make easily 700hp. Prob more like 800+.

[enkeivette]

What tire are you planning on running?

Nitto NT555 (275 30 19)

[BADDASSC6]

Why? You can't put it down and if you could it wouldn't hold. I would dial it back to make it easier to control until you sort out the drivetrain.

[enkeivette]

Why? You can't put it down and if you could it wouldn't hold. I would dial it back to make it easier to control until you sort out the drivetrain.

I don't think I ever will. I'll prob end up buying a caged 1st gen Camaro when I get out of college. Installing this procharged motor in the Camaro and having a more realistic street car... like a C6. When I'm making the bucks.

I'll build a more well suited motor out of the L48 in my garage and install that in Cambria with a 5 speed and sell her.

[joedls]

Obviously I could bolt a smaller pulley on, let it scream at 19lbs of boost, fill up with race gas and make easily 700hp. Prob more like 800+.


Adam, you don't have a hair on your ass if you don't take him up on his challenge.

:pot_stir:



:pot_stir:

[enkeivette]

:pot_stir:

Why don't you race him hairy ass?

I'll race any street car with street tires that fills up with 91 octane, using my street car on street tires filled only with 91 octane. What are you guys trying to prove? That a purpose built drag car filled with race gas can beat my street only car? Point taken, I agree.



If you guys are crying about the numbers I'm claiming, I'll see you at Sean's dyno day. With possibly only a measly 500whp. :rolleyes2:


Btw, now would be a good time to understand the meaning behind my sig.

[joedls]

See, that's where we are different. I would race him and when I lose , my penis will be none the smaller for it. I recognize his car is badass and don't have to puff up my chest and talk about what I could do if..blah, blah, blah. I recognize that his car is faster. You seem to have a problem doing that without a lot of kicking and screaming.

You ask what "you guys" are trying to prove? I don't know who "you guys" are, but I'm assuming I'm part of the "you guys" you were referring to. I wasn't trying to prove anything. I was trying to get you to step up and actually go down the track instead of bench race. I would actually be interested in watching that race.

As far as your HP numbers, I wasn't crying about the numbers you claimed. I was just pointing out the flaw in the logic you were using. If you want to walk around in fanasyland believing that 1 bar of boost will double your power, hey, go right ahead.

And I have always understood the meaning of your sig, just don't understand why that would be a goal. I can't imagine wanting a car to be the fastest car, just to lose a race. In fact when my car was running 13s @ 111, I tried to figure out how to get my E.T. more in line with my trap speed. I still am working on that now that my trap speed is closer to 120.

[94cobra69ss396]

Why don't you race him hairy ass?

I'll race any street car with street tires that fills up with 91 octane, using my street car on street tires filled only with 91 octane. What are you guys trying to prove? That a purpose built drag car filled with race gas can beat my street only car? Point taken, I agree.



If you guys are crying about the numbers I'm claiming, I'll see you at Sean's dyno day. With possibly only a measly 500whp. :rolleyes2:


Btw, now would be a good time to understand the meaning behind my sig.

Okay, make sure you come out on Oct 31 and you can race my buddy in his TT GTO. He made 550rwhp on 91 but is only running 12's with it. He either spins out of the whole or the turbos lag. I'm not even sure how you and I racing even got brought up but I'm only bringing out the Chevelle so no one will be racing my Cobra.

Like Joe said, our dispute was with the claimed doubled HP with 1 bar.

[94cobra69ss396]

Oh and you and Carlos keep insisting that the Chevelle is a purpose built drag car but it's not. It has the stock suspension for crying out loud! Are you guys saying that when Chevrolet designed and built my car in 1969 they did it to be a drag car? It has short/stiff BB springs in the front. If it was built specifically for drag racing I would have longer/softer rate front springs that would transfer the weight. Not stiff ones.

Would you say that installing a set road race slicks on a stock suspension Corvette automatically makes it a purpose built road racer? That's what you are saying about the Chevelle. Carlos, you should know that the suspension makes the car. I have stock suspension. Not to mention a tight converter and tall gears (4.56 would be a quicker gear). My Chevelle could be a lot faster than it is if I designed the suspension for all out drag racing. Not that I won't but I haven't yet.

[joedls]

Ron, how much weight do you think came out of the Chevelle when you stripped the interior? Any more than 200 lbs?

[Vettezuki]

Oh and you and Carlos keep insisting that the Chevelle is a purpose built drag car but it's not. It has the stock suspension for crying out loud! Are you guys saying that when Chevrolet designed and built my car in 1969 they did it to be a drag car? It has short/stiff BB springs in the front. If it was built specifically for drag racing I would have longer/softer rate front springs that would transfer the weight. Not stiff ones.

Would you say that installing a set road race slicks on a stock suspension Corvette automatically makes it a purpose built road racer? That's what you are saying about the Chevelle. Carlos, you should know that the suspension makes the car. I have stock suspension. Not to mention a tight converter and tall gears (4.56 would be a quicker gear). My Chevelle could be a lot faster than it is if I designed the suspension for all out drag racing. Not that I won't but I haven't yet.

I know where they're coming from. The Chevelle is a long way away from a pure street car: hi-comp BBC, NO2, Slicks is not a street car. Is it for road racing? Obviously not. What are those mods for? Straight line speed. But I'm ultimatey on your side. It's not a yes/no thing, but a spectrum, and for the most part you're still closer to a street car than to a true modern purpose built drag car IMO.

[enkeivette]

Ummm...

I recognize that his car is faster. You seem to have a problem doing that without a lot of kicking and screaming.

Second of all, I said several times that I think I would lose to CobraSS for several reasons...


And I have always understood the meaning of your sig, just don't understand why that would be a goal.

Her job is to be able to punish a C6 on the freeway from a roll and look good as I drive the gf around on the weekends.




Okay, make sure you come out on Oct 31 and you can race my buddy in his TT GTO.

Let me set out my calendar right now so no one calls me a coward if I can't show.

I have midterms and won't be back in oc till after the 18th. Then I'll be in SD Halloween weekend for a party.

After that I should be free for a while till finals.


Like Joe said, our dispute was with the claimed doubled HP with 1 bar.

I know, I get it. You guys estimate 550whp (662hp). So you're predicting about 40hp less than 700hp... Ok, I'll take your word for it. I would be ecstatic if she pulls anything over 500whp. Like I said, just got excited about what others were saying. Never tried to contest anything, never tried to say I'd beat you in a race for the 3rd time now. Everything is cool, I agree with you guys on these issues.

As far as your car being a drag only car, yes I know it's not tubbed with skinnies and the susp isn't an expensive drag only setup... but c'mon... you put race gas in it. When you cross that bridge it's no longer a street car, whatever it is.

Dial back your timing like I had to, fill her with 91 and lets go. I'm game. I still prob won't win, but it would at least be a level playing field.

[BADDASSC6]

Oh and you and Carlos keep insisting that the Chevelle is a purpose built drag car but it's not. It has the stock suspension for crying out loud! Are you guys saying that when Chevrolet designed and built my car in 1969 they did it to be a drag car? It has short/stiff BB springs in the front. If it was built specifically for drag racing I would have longer/softer rate front springs that would transfer the weight. Not stiff ones.

Would you say that installing a set road race slicks on a stock suspension Corvette automatically makes it a purpose built road racer? That's what you are saying about the Chevelle. Carlos, you should know that the suspension makes the car. I have stock suspension. Not to mention a tight converter and tall gears (4.56 would be a quicker gear). My Chevelle could be a lot faster than it is if I designed the suspension for all out drag racing. Not that I won't but I haven't yet.

I know what a difference suspension and a proper drivetrain can make. My point is that the mod that you have done to your car all work towards 1/4 drag racing. I started in on the same note that I didn't think that the horsepower estimates were correct.

[joedls]

I know, I get it. You guys estimate 550whp (662hp). So you're predicting about 40hp less than 700hp... Ok, I'll take your word for it. I would be ecstatic if she pulls anything over 500whp. Like I said, just got excited about what others were saying. Never tried to contest anything, never tried to say I'd beat you in a race for the 3rd time now. Everything is cool, I agree with you guys on these issues.

As far as your car being a drag only car, yes I know it's not tubbed with skinnies and the susp isn't an expensive drag only setup... but c'mon... you put race gas in it. When you cross that bridge it's no longer a street car, whatever it is.

Dial back your timing like I had to, fill her with 91 and lets go. I'm game. I still prob won't win, but it would at least be a level playing field.

Everytime you said Ron's car would beat you, it had some excuse or disclaimer attached to it. That was my point. Even here you keep pointing out what it would take to level the playing field. You want to be known as the baddest car on the street, more power to you. I'd rather take it to the track. Why would he de-tune his car to compete with you? My guess is that he has nothing to prove. He can point to his timeslips. Can you?

Oh, BTW, I never estimated how much HP you car makes. I was merely pointing out the misinformation you were given. I don't really care about how much HP your car makes. If you can't use all that HP, what difference does it make? I wanna know how well the car works to get down the 1/4 mile, or how quickly it can do a lap around a racetrack or roadcourse.

In closing, I do have a hairy ass. I know that's not popular with you young'uns nowadays. But I ain't shaving it, waxing it, or whatever the hell else you guys do.

[94cobra69ss396]

As far as your car being a drag only car, yes I know it's not tubbed with skinnies and the susp isn't an expensive drag only setup... but c'mon... you put race gas in it. When you cross that bridge it's no longer a street car, whatever it is.

Dial back your timing like I had to, fill her with 91 and lets go. I'm game. I still prob won't win, but it would at least be a level playing field.

When I built the 454 I planned to have 11:1 compression so I could dial back the timing to run on pump gas. Unfortunately my old heads were cracked and I had to buy new ones. These Edelbrock heads have a smaller combustion chamber so I ended up with 12.25:1. I tried to pull timing and run it on 91 but it won't. Trust me I wish I could run it on 91 instead of $8.00 a gallon race fuel. On the other hand just because it runs race fuel doesn't mean it's built for drag racing. Look at the Cobra. I have to run it on 100 octane at the track. What about Ben's Vette? Is it no longer a street car because he has to add Torco to it or it pings on 91?

Joe to answer your question about the weight i would say about 200 is correct. Car Craft just did an article on removing weight on a '66 Chevelle and they removed 289lbs and I didn't do as much as they did.

Ben, I don't run the Chevelle on the slicks all the time. Just like you with your Vette and me with the Cobra I have two sets of rims and tires. I have slicks that I use when I race and I have DOT tires for the street. Also, the N2O is just a power adder just like a supercharger. Does the Vortech on the Cobra and Cambria make them drag cars? You also talk about the BBC like it is only made for drag racing. You guys do realize that back in the day they installed big blocks in cars? When Leedom's dad drops the BBF in the Mach 1 does that automatically make it a drag car? I'm sure he'll still be running the stock suspension just like I am on the Chevelle. What if he pulls out the interior to restore the car and then runs out of money. If he just throws a seat in it so he can drive it does that make it a drag car?

With the exception of installing new upper and lower rear control arms the suspension on my Chevelle has been unchanged since 1992 and it was my daily driver up until around 1997. Even the 90/10 shocks in the front weren't installed for drag racing. I installed those because it helped keep the front of my car from bottoming out over bumps.

[Vettezuki]

Joe, too much information. Other than that, wow I think I understand everyone's POV in this thread. Does that mean I'm empathetic?

[Leedom]

In closing, I do have a hairy ass. I now that's not popular with you young'uns nowadays. But I ain't shaving it, waxing it, or whatever the hell else you guys do.

Preach on fellow hairy-a$$. I agree with you about having the highest HP car out there. What is the point of having XXX HP if you can not even use it. Like Sean's friend that nearly killed himself at the track. Totally built motor and nothing else upgraded. People need to build cars that are balance that lean towards the style of car they want, ie: drag racing, road coarse, whatever.

I think to say Ron's car is a drag car is totally rediculous. If I throw a blower on my car and go with 4.10 in the rear is my car a drag car? That being said, Carlos... for what you are saying Ron has done to his Chevelle that would put you in the road racing category in my mind. You have upgraded brakes, cooling, motor, suspension...blah, blah, blah.

[Leedom]

When Leedom's dad drops the BBF in the Mach 1 does that automatically make it a drag car? I'm sure he'll still be running the stock suspension just like I am on the Chevelle. What if he pulls out the interior to restore the car and then runs out of money. If he just throws a seat in it so he can drive it does that make it a drag car?

Funny that you mention it. We will be redoing the suspension with stock replacements and the interior looks just like you said. There is only a seat for driving and the dash.

[joedls]

Joe to answer your question about the weight i would say about 200 is correct. Car Craft just did an article on removing weight on a '66 Chevelle and they removed 289lbs and I didn't do as much as they did.



So you removed 200 lbs and added how much for the cage?

[Vettezuki]

See, that's where we are different. I would race him and when I lose , my penis will be none the smaller for it. I recognize his car is badass and don't have to puff up my chest and talk about what I could do if..blah, blah, blah. I recognize that his car is faster. You seem to have a problem doing that without a lot of kicking and screaming.

Simply the difference between an objective comparison of a single parameter in a given narrow context vs. comparing and evaluating contexts.

You ask what "you guys" are trying to prove? I don't know who "you guys" are, but I'm assuming I'm part of the "you guys" you were referring to. I wasn't trying to prove anything. I was trying to get you to step up and actually go down the track instead of bench race. I would actually be interested in watching that race.

I would be interested in just seeing Cambria go down the track period. Enkei's OP wasn't about racing, just a power estimate. And honestly his point is valid. I think (having been in the car) he's vaguely in the range of 550WHP, that ain't terribly far from 700BHP, which was his original assertion.

As far as your HP numbers, I wasn't crying about the numbers you claimed. I was just pointing out the flaw in the logic you were using. If you want to walk around in fanasyland believing that 1 bar of boost will double your power, hey, go right ahead.

It's just a broad rule of thumb that isn't terrible as a starting point. It's NOT a lookup table.

. . . when my car was running 13s @ 111, I tried to figure out how to get my E.T. more in line with my trap speed. I still am working on that now that my trap speed is closer to 120.

You and me both.

[94cobra69ss396]

So you removed 200 lbs and added how much for the cage?

That would include adding the cage. I figure I have about 300lbs removed and added 100.

[joedls]

Joe, too much information.

Hey, I didn't put it out there.

Why don't you race him hairy ass?

[Vettezuki]

Joe. Don't f with my Rainman like memory.

First mention of hair on ass.

Adam, you don't have a hair on your ass if you don't take him up on his challenge.

:pot_stir:

[Vettezuki]

That would include adding the cage. I figure I have about 300lbs removed and added 100.

Uh, que? My abbacus is put away right now. . . but:

Joe to answer your question about the weight i would say about 200 is correct. Car Craft just did an article on removing weight on a '66 Chevelle and they removed 289lbs and I didn't do as much as they did.

[joedls]

I would be interested in just seeing Cambria go down the track period. Enkei's OP wasn't about racing, just a power estimate. And honestly his point is valid. I think (having been in the car) he's vaguely in the range of 550WHP, that ain't terribly far from 700BHP, which was his original assertion.

I would, too. I never argued that his car wasn't making the power he claimed. I was merely pointing out that the formula he was using to calculate it doesn't work.

It's just a broad rule of thumb that isn't terrible as a starting point. It's NOT a lookup table.

That may be so, but it sucks as a rule of thumb. There are too many variables. Even if you could somehow run the same AFR and timing, this totally discounts the parasitic drag of the blower, which can be up to 20 - 30%.

And it wasn't represented as a rule of thumb. It was represented as a "fact".

[joedls]

Joe. Don't f with my Rainman like memory.

First mention of hair on ass.

Yes, but I wasn't referring to mine.

[94cobra69ss396]

Uh, que? My abbacus is put away right now. . . but:

They changed the transmission to a lighter version, installed lexan window, changed from steel wheels to lightweight drag wheels, installed a lightweight starter, removed the power steering and converted it to manual, etc.

I just pulled my interior out because I was going to have the body work done and didn't want to pay the body shop to do it. That's the same reason I pulled the plastic instrument cluster. I was going to rewire the whole car when I was done but never got the body work done. I have the wiring harness sitting in my shed along with the cluster. I still plan on restoring it and building a new 4 bolt main BBC for it but the next one will have a Vortech and run on pump gas on the street and race fuel at the track. As I stated before I didn't build it as a drag car. I just enjoy taking it to the strip.

[Vettezuki]

They changed the transmission to a lighter version, installed lexan window, changed from steel wheels to lightweight drag wheels, installed a lightweight starter, removed the power steering and converted it to manual, etc.

I just pulled my interior out because I was going to have the body work done and didn't want to pay the body shop to do it. That's the same reason I pulled the plastic instrument cluster. I was going to rewire the whole car when I was done but never got the body work done. I have the wiring harness sitting in my shed along with the cluster. I still plan on restoring it and building a new 4 bolt main BBC for it but the next one will have a Vortech and run on pump gas on the street and race fuel at the track. As I stated before I didn't build it as a drag car. I just enjoy taking it to the strip.


You said:
- Car Craft removed 289lbs
- You didn't do as much as Car Craft
- You removed 300lbs (and added 100lbs in the form of a cage)

Different planet? Did I read your posts wrong? You didn't do as much but removed more. That hurts my brain.

Joe, you know what you did and so does little baby Jesus.

[joedls]

Joe, you know what you did and so does little baby Jesus. :huh::huh:

[94cobra69ss396]

You said:
- Car Craft removed 289lbs
- You didn't do as much as Car Craft
- You removed 300lbs (and added 100lbs in the form of a cage)

Different planet? Did I read your posts wrong? You didn't do as much but removed more. That hurts my brain.

Joe, you know what you did and so does little baby Jesus.

They removed 389lbs and installed the same Competition Engineering roll bar that I installed. So I figure they removed about 89lbs more than I did.

[BRUTAL64]

I would too. Because he'd go about 5' before his rear end would be in a couple hundred pieces.

Pretty much my thoughts also.:boggled:

[Vettezuki]

They removed 389lbs and installed the same Competition Engineering roll bar that I installed. So I figure they removed about 89lbs more than I did.

Got it. Your original reference stated 289 pounds.

[enkeivette]

Joe. Don't f with my Rainman like memory.

First mention of hair on ass.

That's what I was responding to.



Joe, of course I'm making excuses. Stripped, slicks, race gas. Not the same league. Period.

Remember I offered to race him, on the bottle, as long as he didn't run slicks before I had any idea that Ron ran race gas. I just threw that disclaimer in there because it's the defining line for me. I honestly had no idea, ask Ron, he's never mentioned it to me before. Search the forum if you wish. I didn't even know his name till recently and I've never seen his Chevelle.

Do I think Ben's car is no longer a street car... If he can get by on 91 only which I think he can, then yeah. I have an effectively higher CR than Ben but I refuse to run race gas, Torco or any sort of octane booster. Ben's tried to talk me into it. Won't happen.

I had this conversation with Plunker years ago. He's against nitrous, because you have to refill it, I draw the line at 91 octane. Don't care what's under your hood, boost cooler, alcohol injection, blower, etc. as long as you can fill up at 76 and mount street legal tires... it's a street car.

If it's not, might as well be top fuel. Don't compare it to my car. :judge:

Sorry guys, I know I just offended half of you but that's how I feel.

And I'm not trying to say my car is the baddest thing out there. It's not. If I had the funds you can bet your sweet hairy ass I'd buy offset trailing arms and have my rims widened. It's a huge handicap and I'm not proud of it. That and my old crappy interior is the reason I'd rather have a Z06 with only 405hp over my car. My car ain't all that, yeah it's cool for what it is and I'm proud of it. But I would trade most of the guys at the motorgen meets for their cars straight up.

[enkeivette]

Then again, regarding Ben's car, I believe he bought the motor from someone on the East Coast who built it to run on 93... which is street gas in most parts of the U.S.

[BRUTAL64]

:popcorn:

[Vettezuki]

Then again, regarding Ben's car, I believe he bought the motor from someone on the East Coast who built it to run on 93... which is street gas in most parts of the U.S.

Many civilized paces in the country have gas that would run in my car, just not the DPRK, Democratic People's Repubic of Kalifoooniaa.

However, the guy I bought the motor was right here in town.

As for street car, it rides smoother and Quieter, has A/C, get's great mileage, etc. So what if takes a can of Torco now and again.

[BADDASSC6]

I think to say Ron's car is a drag car is totally rediculous. If I throw a blower on my car and go with 4.10 in the rear is my car a drag car? That being said, Carlos... for what you are saying Ron has done to his Chevelle that would put you in the road racing category in my mind. You have upgraded brakes, cooling, motor, suspension...blah, blah, blah.

Yes you are right my car is in the road racing category BIG TIME. Every single modification that I have done was to achieve lower lap times on road courses. Even my cam was picked for a wider power band. The only stock suspension pieces are the A-arms, uprights and rear sway bar.

I will say Ron's car is a "street car that has been heavily modified for drag racing". I think that's a happy medium.

Ron, yes if I drove my vette on fat and skinnies with 150 shot and lake wood drag shocks (that is what 90/10s are) then I would pretty much consider it a drag car.

[BRUTAL64]

Many civilized paces in the country have gas that would run in my car, just not the DPRK, Democratic People's Repubic of Kalifoooniaa.

However, the guy I bought the motor was right here in town.

As for street car, it rides smoother and Quieter, has A/C, get's great mileage, etc. So what if takes a can of Torco now and again.

But.....it's.........white.............:inout:

[94cobra69ss396]

I will say Ron's car is a "street car that has been heavily modified for drag racing". I think that's a happy medium.

I agree with this statement.

[Vettezuki]

I agree with this statement.

:iagree: :drink:

[Vettezuki]

But.....it's.........white.............:inout:

Before I got my C3 I didn't really like white on cars. I love it on my C3. Someday I might go with a midnight blue up front with a gradient fade into white gohst flames and white at the back, but that's money and would be nearly the last thing I'd do. As for interior color, I can't make up my mind.
- Cream/Tan - sort of like I have, classy
- Charcoal/black - works of course, but a little ho-hum (you know how I feel about that)
- two tone white and blue with brushed metal and carbon fiber - cool!, but would require careful planning for an aesthetic balance

[BADDASSC6]

So is this the longest thread in MOTORGEN history?

If Ron is the unofficial motorgen street drag king:bow: and I'm the unofficial motorgen road racer :motorsmile:then can we crown Adam as the motorgen bench racing / dyno queen:laugh:?

[SeanPlunk]

If Ron is the unofficial motorgen street drag king:bow: and I'm the unofficial motorgen road racer :motorsmile:then can we crown Adam as the motorgen bench racing / dyno queen:laugh:?

This is 100% accurate :jester:

[Vettezuki]

This is 100% accurate :jester:

Perhaps. But I've never seen anyone, I mean anyone, do so much with so little, completely on their own, from engine building through some pretty damn nice paint and body, as Adam. And for that. :hail:

[BADDASSC6]

Perhaps. But I've never seen anyone, I mean anyone, do so much with so little, completely on their own, from engine building through some pretty damn nice paint and body, as Adam. And for that. :hail:

I agree:thumbs_up:, so why is everyone trying to egg him on to blow his diff. Let him enjoy it for a while.

[Vettezuki]

I agree:thumbs_up:, so why is everyone trying to egg him on to blow his diff. Let him enjoy it for a while.

If he feathers out on ET Streets he (err, should) be ok, and get a fair reading of MPH. If he drops it and they hook, different story.

[BADDASSC6]

This reminds me of when Supras were the rage. They all put down 600-1000 hp all would trap 130-150 mph, but none could break an 11.5:suicide:.

[SeanPlunk]

Perhaps. But I've never seen anyone, I mean anyone, do so much with so little, completely on their own, from engine building through some pretty damn nice paint and body, as Adam. And for that. :hail:

I also agree 100% on that. Enkei is the McGyver of cars :)

[Vettezuki]

This reminds me of when Supras were the rage. They all put down 600-1000 hp all would trap 130-150 mph, but none could break an 11.5:suicide:.

A lot of turbo Porsches are in the same category. It's all about the 60', and that takes some refinement. It also has relatively little to do with "real world" driving.

[94cobra69ss396]

If he feathers out on ET Streets he (err, should) be ok, and get a fair reading of MPH. If he drops it and they hook, different story.

He won't hook. He should be making too much TQ for it to hook. My buddy spins in his 550rwhp GTO which also has the stock diff and shafts if he tries to launch with anything above 3000. If he launches at 2500 it bogs.

[BADDASSC6]

A lot of turbo Porsches are in the same category. It's all about the 60', and that takes some refinement. It also has relatively little to do with "real world" driving.

That's funny, all the turbo Porsches that I've seen launch like crazy, but have NO topend. One of my good friends ran a 12.7 at 109 with a 1.7 60ft on a chipped 996 turbo.

[94cobra69ss396]

A lot of turbo Porsches are in the same category. It's all about the 60', and that takes some refinement. It also has relatively little to do with "real world" driving.

This is where the suspension, gearing and stall speed (if it's an auto) come into play. Like I said with the Chevelle if I installed drag oriented springs, lower gears and a 4500 stall I would be faster without ever touching the engine.

The reason those Supras only run 11's but turn 130-150 is because they don't make any power until the large turbo starts making boost which is usaully around 4500 or higher and they have stock gearing.

[Vettezuki]

That's funny, all the turbo Porsches that I've seen launch like crazy, but have NO topend. One of my good friends ran a 12.7 at 109 with a 1.7 60ft on a chipped 996 turbo.

True, stock to moderate upscale TPs have the opposite problem of a Supra (are kind of like Evos for the same reason), But monster power Porsches have ETs well below what you'd expect, for kind of the same reason as the monster power Supras. I've raced some 800HP beasts (never been passed like that), but the owner said they have the Devil's time cracking below 11.5.

[Vettezuki]

I also agree 100% on that. Enkei is the McGyver of cars :)

We're going to need a box of matches, a magnifying glass, some chop sticks and some duct tape. We're gonna paint this fu*ker.

[BRUTAL64]

Perhaps. But I've never seen anyone, I mean anyone, do so much with so little, completely on their own, from engine building through some pretty damn nice paint and body, as Adam. And for that. :hail:

I have to agree. He did a DAMN FINE job with the little money he had.:bigthumbsup::bigthumbsup::bigthumbsup:

[BRUTAL64]

Before I got my C3 I didn't really like white on cars. I love it on my C3. Someday I might go with a midnight blue up front with a gradient fade into white gohst flames and white at the back, but that's money and would be nearly the last thing I'd do. As for interior color, I can't make up my mind.
- Cream/Tan - sort of like I have, classy
- Charcoal/black - works of course, but a little ho-hum (you know how I feel about that)
- two tone white and blue with brushed metal and carbon fiber - cool!, but would require careful planning for an aesthetic balance

White is not a bad thing. I'm white and I'm fine.:lmfao:

[Vettezuki]

White is not a bad thing. I'm white and I'm fine.:lmfao:

Debatable.

:inout:

[BRUTAL64]

Debatable.

:inout:

To have a debate you need two people to discuss the points in question. Since I am always right, there is no need to go on with this.:rolleyes:

[Vettezuki]

To have a debate you need two people to discuss the points in question. Since I am always right, there is no need to go on with this.:rolleyes:

I just wanted to use the new smiley.

So Adam, you gonna run on 10/31 or what?

[BADDASSC6]

We should try to set up some Motorgen match races. I will not be there on the 31st, but I would make it another day.

[joedls]

That's what I was responding to.



Joe, of course I'm making excuses. Stripped, slicks, race gas. Not the same league. Period.

Remember I offered to race him, on the bottle, as long as he didn't run slicks before I had any idea that Ron ran race gas. I just threw that disclaimer in there because it's the defining line for me. I honestly had no idea, ask Ron, he's never mentioned it to me before. Search the forum if you wish. I didn't even know his name till recently and I've never seen his Chevelle.

Do I think Ben's car is no longer a street car... If he can get by on 91 only which I think he can, then yeah. I have an effectively higher CR than Ben but I refuse to run race gas, Torco or any sort of octane booster. Ben's tried to talk me into it. Won't happen.

I had this conversation with Plunker years ago. He's against nitrous, because you have to refill it, I draw the line at 91 octane. Don't care what's under your hood, boost cooler, alcohol injection, blower, etc. as long as you can fill up at 76 and mount street legal tires... it's a street car.

If it's not, might as well be top fuel. Don't compare it to my car. :judge:

Sorry guys, I know I just offended half of you but that's how I feel.

And I'm not trying to say my car is the baddest thing out there. It's not. If I had the funds you can bet your sweet hairy ass I'd buy offset trailing arms and have my rims widened. It's a huge handicap and I'm not proud of it. That and my old crappy interior is the reason I'd rather have a Z06 with only 405hp over my car. My car ain't all that, yeah it's cool for what it is and I'm proud of it. But I would trade most of the guys at the motorgen meets for their cars straight up.

I run 100 octane at the track (and BTW you can pull up to a pump at a 76 station in many places and pump 100 octane). Does that make my car a drag car? I only run it at the track. On the street I run 91 octane.

You wrote, "of course I'm making excuses." This is what I don't get. If you have no investment in being the "cock of the walk" what difference does it make if his car is quicker than yours in the 1/4 mile? It doesn't sound like that's your goal, so why make excuses for your car. From what I can tell, it's a hell of a car that you put alot of sweat into. Be proud of that. You bowed your back up when Ron offered Ben a ride in his Chevelle (I'm assuming to challenge his statement that your car is the fastest accelerating car he had ever been in). Who cares if his car or your car should have that title? I saw your sensitivity and pounced on it because I like being an asshole sometimes. But hell, you're a big boy and you have to develop that thick skin for the legal system anyway. :lmfao:

[enkeivette]

...can we crown Adam as the motorgen bench racing / dyno queen:laugh:?

I'm cool with that! :D

Perhaps. But I've never seen anyone, I mean anyone, do so much with so little, completely on their own, from engine building through some pretty damn nice paint and body, as Adam. And for that. :hail:

I also agree 100% on that. Enkei is the McGyver of cars :)

I agree:thumbs_up:, so why is everyone trying to egg him on to blow his diff. Let him enjoy it for a while.

I have to agree. He did a DAMN FINE job with the little money he had.:bigthumbsup::bigthumbsup::bigthumbsup:

Aw shux, you guys are so sweet. :) Makes me wanna give you all sloppy Bruno style kisses. :beer: :beer: :beer:

But I think Brutal takes the McGyver title on this forum. What was it? $11 and change for 400hp? I have some expensive pieces from my setup. Yeah I bargained, e-bayed, and posed as a business to get a dealer discount for those pieces. But they were expensive nonetheless.


So Adam, you gonna run on 10/31 or what?

Page 4!
Let me set out my calendar right now so no one calls me a coward if I can't show.

I have midterms and won't be back in oc till after the 18th. Then I'll be in SD Halloween weekend for a party.
After that I should be free for a while till finals.

Also, must go during the day. Well established that I am poor. Must be sub $40. No $100 private track nights. On that note, I think the most logical thing to do would be to just put Cambria on the dyno during Sean's scheduled cheap dyno day. Takes my shitty tires/ driving out of the equation.

Let me say for the record, I think Ron is a bad mother f*cker and his cars are even cooler. I don't think anyone keeps up with my tuning threads as much as he does. And regardless of what you fill it with I love all fast cars, and I sooo badly want to hide in the back seat when you give Ben a ride. I've never been in a 10 second car before and I'm sure it would give me a chubby.

Ben, about your car again, it is more practical than my car in every other aspect, so I "supersize" with you. I just would have tuned the thing to run on 91. But in reality it is more of a street rod than any other C3 I've seen. :hail:

[2011GT302]

Sorry to beat a dead horse but My 01 Mustang GT is by no means a race car but I will be running 100 oct at the track I also run full slicks. I fill my car with 91 at Shell twice :( a week and put over 100 miles a week on the motor. Point being running 100 and slicks does not make your car a race car. 100 oct means your smart (higher oct is just straight up better for your car) and slicks are just one of the best mods you can do. My car went from 2.2 to 1.5 60' times. By the way my sub a side from full connectors is 100% stock ford. Also having a roll cage is required by almost if not all types of racing not only drag racing.

[enkeivette]

Sorry to beat a dead horse but My 01 Mustang GT is by no means a race car but I will be running 100 oct at the track I also run full slicks. I fill my car with 91 at Shell twice :( a week and put over 100 miles a week on the motor. Point being running 100 and slicks does not make your car a race car. 100 oct means your smart (higher oct is just straight up better for your car) and slicks are just one of the best mods you can do. My car went from 2.2 to 1.5 60' times. By the way my sub a side from full connectors is 100% stock ford. Also having a roll cage is required by almost if not all types of racing not only drag racing.

I'm sure my car would run better with 100 octane too, but neither of us need it. Like you said, you fill your car with street gas twice a week.

[enkeivette]

Just out of curiosity, what would my car trap? My sig is out of my ass obviously.

[Vettezuki]

Just out of curiosity, what would my car trap? My sig is out of my ass obviously.

I'm calling (w/clean shifts and a not too hot day) 128+- a lil. Are you coming on 10/31?

[enkeivette]

Are you coming on 10/31?

http://i27.tinypic.com/2crau5d.jpg

[Vettezuki]

You just said you'd be in SD for a Halloween party.The races are during the day, Halloween parties are at night. So what gives? It's not like Fontana is in another state, it's straight up the 15. I'll run it for you if you like. . . :pot_stir:

[94cobra69ss396]

I'm sure my car would run better with 100 octane too, but neither of us need it. Like you said, you fill your car with street gas twice a week.

I pull into the gas station around the corner from my house and put 4 gallons of 91 in the Chevelle too. It's just that I also poor 5 gallons of VP110 in before I leave my house.

[enkeivette]

You just said you'd be in SD for a Halloween party.The races are during the day, Halloween parties are at night. So what gives? It's not like Fontana is in another state, it's straight up the 15. I'll run it for you if you like. . . :pot_stir:

No I said I'd be in SD Halloween weekend for a party. Meaning, the whole weekend. You guys can wait another few weeks, not driving 300 miles round trip because you're impatient.

And no you can't drive Cambria! No one drives her but me, stay away. \:|

[94cobra69ss396]

No I said I'd be in SD Halloween weekend for a party. Meaning, the whole weekend. You guys can wait another few weeks, not driving 300 miles round trip because you're impatient.

And no you can't drive Cambria! No one drives her but me, stay away. :|

Let Sean drive her then it really will run a 15.

[enkeivette]

I pull into the gas station around the corner from my house and put 4 gallons of 91 in the Chevelle too. It's just that I also poor 5 gallons of VP110 in before I leave my house.

My friend has a Turbo 97 Avenger and he fills up with like 3 gallons of 100 and fills up with 91. I just think it's dumb for a street car. How are you going to take the car to Vegas or even San Diego? Why not run meth injection? You can even run a boost cooler using only water, so really it's just water injection, and you'll still gain another couple points effectively.

[enkeivette]

Let Sean drive her then it really will run a 15.

Hahaha, ouch.

You know Sean after I show up for a few races you may no longer be the black sheep of drag racing. I might just take over that role for you. :smack:

[enkeivette]

http://i27.tinypic.com/2crau5d.jpg

Ben... you sooo need to shrink this down and add it as a smiley.

[94cobra69ss396]

My friend has a Turbo 97 Avenger and he fills up with like 3 gallons of 100 and fills up with 91. I just think it's dumb for a street car. How are you going to take the car to Vegas or even San Diego? Why not run meth injection? You can even run a boost cooler using only water, so really it's just water injection, and you'll still gain another couple points effectively.

I don't have a blower it's N/A. And I wouldn't drive the car to Vegas or San Diego. I would just tow it if I was going to go that far. Besides, if I was going some place far away I would just take the Cobra.

[BADDASSC6]

I'm calling (w/clean shifts and a not too hot day) 128+- a lil. Are you coming on 10/31?

No way he is in the teens.
Adam how often are you in Diego? Lets get together. I don't care it it's from a dig or a roll:drive:.

[enkeivette]

I live in SD. Just come up to OC on the weekend to see the GF. Don't bring Cambria down here with me though, she is my weekend cruiser. And I don't want to have to punish your C6 with my sweet 140hp Neon lowered to srock height.



Ron, I remember. I'd love to have your lineup. FI weekend warrior like the Cobra, straight line monster like the Chevelle and an offroad vehicle.

I'd like to have a 1st gen Camaro, a C5 or a C6 and a long travel 2wd Ranger with a built V8.

[enkeivette]

How about this, I'll race your C6 with my C3 from a roll. And if i win, we trade cars straight up. :bandit::deal:

[enkeivette]

Some math for fun:

432/315 = 1.3714

.31714/5 = .07429 addition hp per lb over NA

.07x13 = .9657 theoretical percentage increase at 13lb over NA based on 5lb increase

1.9657x315 = 619.2 whp

But, I've found that cooling the air can drop the pressure 3lbs as tested (http://www.procharger.com/h2hdt.html). So doing the math at 10lbs I get:

549 whp (like you guys are guessing)/ 83 = 661 bhp

I'll bet there is a much better way to do this if you know the common compressor outlet temp and can use the temp difference from the inlet temp to find out the pressue increase. Then use that to find the realistic 02 increase, then subtract pumping loss as a percentage. Then add 30-50hp for the AFR which we haven't been doing, and rightfully so because I'm sure the above mentioned will subtract more than 30-50hp.

[enkeivette]

For the record, I'm always disappointed dyno day, so I'm guessing closer to 500whp.

[94cobra69ss396]

Some math for fun:

432/315 = 1.3714

.31714/5 = .07429 addition hp per lb over NA

.07x13 = .9657 theoretical percentage increase at 13lb over NA based on 5lb increase

1.9657x315 = 619.2 whp

But, I've found that cooling the air can drop the pressure 3lbs as tested (http://www.procharger.com/h2hdt.html). So doing the math at 10lbs I get:

549 whp (like you guys are guessing)/ 83 = 661 bhp

I'll bet there is a much better way to do this if you know the common compressor outlet temp and can use the temp difference from the inlet temp to find out the pressue increase. Then use that to find the realistic 02 increase, then subtract pumping loss as a percentage. Then add 30-50hp for the AFR which we haven't been doing, and rightfully so because I'm sure the above mentioned will subtract more than 30-50hp.

According to my tuner Steve, who has measured outlet temps on setups like my Cobra that don't have an intercooler, the outlet temps range between 250 and 300 degrees at the 11-12psi my engine sees. Notice in the tests that without an intercooler the outlet temp was 199.2 degrees at 8.2psi and they had the timing pulled back to 22 degrees. With an intercooler the temp was only 120 with the same 8.2psi and they were able to run 30 degrees. By increasing the psi to 11.5 the outlet temp rose just under 20 degrees or roughly 14% with an intercooler. See where I'm going with this? Do you still think you can run 26 degrees with 13psi, no intercooler and 91? Remember, this was testing on a dyno, not a car that is sitting in traffic and then being gunned to get on the freeway.

Also, notice in the tests that it took 58hp to turn the P600B at 8.2psi measured at the manifold and 74hp on the same blower to make 11.5psi. That's roughly 21%. Assuming it would take that same 21% to make another 2 psi the blower would be consuming about 90hp.

[BRUTAL64]

"But I think Brutal takes the McGyver title on this forum. What was it? $11 and change for 400hp"?





Yes, about $12.00. Yep, all used parts (free). The only new stuff was the paint and brass freeze plugs.

I swear, the drugs of that day (1988) had nothing to do with it.:uh:

[SeanPlunk]

"But I think Brutal takes the McGyver title on this forum. What was it? $11 and change for 400hp"?





Yes, about $12.00. Yep, all used parts (free). The only new stuff was the paint and brass freeze plugs.

I swear, the drugs of that day (1988) had nothing to do with it.:uh:

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/9272/normalcocainerickjameshs1.jpg

:leaving:

[BRUTAL64]

I'd like to have a 1st gen Camaro, a C5 or a C6 and a long travel 2wd Ranger with a built V8.

First Gen Camaro----:barf::nutkick:

[BRUTAL64]

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/9272/normalcocainerickjameshs1.jpg

:leaving:

No, not that one.:pot_stir:

[enkeivette]

According to my tuner Steve, who has measured outlet temps on setups like my Cobra that don't have an intercooler, the outlet temps range between 250 and 300 degrees at the 11-12psi my engine sees. Notice in the tests that without an intercooler the outlet temp was 199.2 degrees at 8.2psi and they had the timing pulled back to 22 degrees. With an intercooler the temp was only 120 with the same 8.2psi and they were able to run 30 degrees. By increasing the psi to 11.5 the outlet temp rose just under 20 degrees or roughly 14% with an intercooler. See where I'm going with this? Do you still think you can run 26 degrees with 13psi, no intercooler and 91? Remember, this was testing on a dyno, not a car that is sitting in traffic and then being gunned to get on the freeway.

Also, notice in the tests that it took 58hp to turn the P600B at 8.2psi measured at the manifold and 74hp on the same blower to make 11.5psi. That's roughly 21%. Assuming it would take that same 21% to make another 2 psi the blower would be consuming about 90hp.

Wow, considering all that loss I might even be under 500 whp. But since I put down 432 with less than half the boost and a bunch of stuff wrong... prob not. Too much math, need a dyno.

I really would like to intercool it before I run it, but if I keep waiting for one more thing I'll never get it done. I need to find a long thin intercooler with a 3" in and out to mount way up front where my frame extension used to be. I also need a metal saw to cut pipe. I burned my saw up trying to cut some 1/4 thick steel. I miss it dearly.

[enkeivette]

Brutal, I never would have suspected. :rolleyes:

[enkeivette]

Btw, according to ATI I can run 34 degrees at 12lbs? with 91 octane, hot air, using Al heads. More like 19lbs intercooled.

My belt driven turbo is self contained so it stays cooler than most, I believe.

[BRUTAL64]

Brutal, I never would have suspected. :rolleyes:

Suspect what??? I have not done anything wrong at anytime.:judge:

[big_G]

I really would like to intercool it before I run it, but if I keep waiting for one more thing I'll never get it done. I need to find a long thin intercooler with a 3" in and out to mount way up front where my frame extension used to be. I also need a metal saw to cut pipe. I burned my saw up trying to cut some 1/4 thick steel. I miss it dearly.

I've been away from the forums for a while...and I see you still have not added an intecooler?...ha ha. Yesterday I changed the cam in my bad boy for the 4th (hopefully last) time. This grind is 244/248/114/.617/.609. Comp Cams guarantees it will put me over the elusive 600RWHP level. I am stuck presently at 555, with a small 230/236 cam. Buy a cheap $89 chop saw at Harbor Freight and get that damned intercooler in there!. Then dyno time.

[enkeivette]

I've got a 239/245 right now. Plenty lopey for the street. I do intend to rig up an intercooler after I finish fiberglassing the interior. Problem is I don't have a one piece front end like some spolied C3 owners I know :p and I need to mount it up behind the front bumper where my frame extension used to be. I need one that it about 9" -12" tall by up to 30" wide with 3" inlets. The inlets are the major problem.

Btw, how many degrees of timing are you running?!

[big_G]

I've got a 239/245 right now. Plenty lopey for the street. I do intend to rig up an intercooler after I finish fiberglassing the interior. Problem is I don't have a one piece front end like some spolied C3 owners I know :p and I need to mount it up behind the front bumper where my frame extension used to be. I need one that it about 9" -12" tall by up to 30" wide with 3" inlets. The inlets are the major problem.

Btw, how many degrees of timing are you running?!

Actually, the one piece front end makes the intercooler fitment worse, as I have tilt hinge pivot/clearances to worry about. Trust me, you have it easier. Your cam is plenty big..what is the lobe separation?...As far as timing, it is programmed by the efi...max at light cruise at about 50*, then down to 28-30* from 5,500 to 6,800 rpm. My FAST efi let's me do all kinds of things!

[big_G]

Also, notice in the tests that it took 58hp to turn the P600B at 8.2psi measured at the manifold and 74hp on the same blower to make 11.5psi. That's roughly 21%. Assuming it would take that same 21% to make another 2 psi the blower would be consuming about 90hp.

How is the S/C parasitic loss measured?. I know it's a lot, as around 15 lbs. boost my 12 rib belt starts to slip a little.

[enkeivette]

How is the S/C parasitic loss measured?. I know it's a lot, as around 15 lbs. boost my 12 rib belt starts to slip a little.

With a dyno :) I'm not going to talk anymore till I get the car strapped down. She'll speak for herself.

The hood opens up less than 3" from the front of the radiator, so there is no way for me to fit an intercooler there. Unless it's short. I'd rather have it up front anyways, away from the heat.

[Vettezuki]

Hey look, there's a pool on how much you're going to put down.

http://motorgen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12256

[big_G]

Any update on the intercooler project?...BTW...just took out the 'Vette for the first time since the cam change. Big improvement. Breaks the tires loose @ 60 mph in third much easier now...ha ha

[enkeivette]

Haven't even seen the car in a few weeks, too damn busy with school and valentines day. :) I decided to upgrade the fuel system before I intercool. I'm more in need of that than I am more hp.