Ford Small Block 427?

[Vettezuki]

Is there such a thing, including aftermarket blocks? For example the LS7 is 427ci, but is basically a SBC package. Please to advise.

Reason (Just dreaming ahead).

I prefer the body styling of the (Superformance) GT40 Mark I to the Mark II. However, the Mark I was designed for the 289 and can take up to (I think) a 351W. The Mark II was the bad boy with a 427, but I *think* that was a BBF no?

[BRUTAL64]

Is there such a thing, including aftermarket blocks? For example the LS7 is 427ci, but is basically a SBC package. Please to advise.

Reason (Just dreaming ahead).

I prefer the body styling of the (Superformance) GT40 Mark I to the Mark II. However, the Mark I was designed for the 289 and can take up to (I think) a 351W. The Mark II was the bad boy with a 427, but I *think* that was a BBF no?

Yes, there is a Windsor block (351w) that World sells (also complete engines ) that can go to 427.

Small bore increase and long stroke increase.


My first pick for a FORD SB 427.


We sell World products now. Complete engines in the future.:judge:


Mark II had FE 427 BBF side oiler. Great frinking engine.

[BRUTAL64]

Are you really thinking of going this way? I have been for years.:drink:

[Vettezuki]

Are you really thinking of going this way? I have been for years.:drink:

Yes. But the window is out a couple years and depends on business, etc.

[94cobra69ss396]

Roush also makes 427 crate engines http://www.roushperformance.com/engines/engines.shtml. My boss has the 427R in his Superformance Cobra.

[SeanPlunk]

Roush also makes 427 crate engines http://www.roushperformance.com/engines/engines.shtml. My boss has the 427R in his Superformance Cobra.

Lucky guy :drool:

[SeanPlunk]

I always liked this Ford 427:

427 SOHC "Cammer"

SOHC engine showing cam, rockers and timing chainsThe Ford Single Overhead Cam (SOHC) 427 V8 engine, familiarly known as the "Cammer",[19] was released in 1964 to recapture NASCAR dominance from the Chrysler 426 Hemi engine. The Chrysler 426 used extremely large block casting that dwarfed the earlier 392 Hemi. The Ford 427 block was closer dimensionally to the early Hemis than to the elephantine 426 Hemi: the Ford FE bore spacing was 4.63 in (117.6 mm) compared to the Chrysler 392's bore spacing of 4.5625 in (115.9 mm). The Ford FE's deck height of 10.17 in (258.3 mm) was lower than that of the Chrysler 392 at 10.87 in (276.1 mm). For comparison, the 426 Hemi has a deck height of 10.72 in (272.3 mm) and bore spacing of 4.8 in (121.9 mm); both Chrysler Hemis have decks more than 0.5 in (12.7 mm) taller than the FE.

The engine was based on the ultra high performance 427 side-oiler block, providing race-proven durability. The block and associated parts were largely unchanged, the main difference being use of an idler shaft instead of the camshaft in the block, which necessitated plugging the remaining camshaft bearing oiling holes.

The heads were newly-designed cast iron items with hemispherical combustion chambers and a single overhead camshaft on each head, operating shaft-mounted roller rocker arms. The valvetrain consisted of valves larger than those on Ford wedge head engines, made out of stainless steel and with sodium-filled exhaust valves to prevent the valve heads from burning, and dual valve springs. This design allowed for high volumetric efficiency at high engine speed.

The idler shaft in the block in place of the camshaft was driven by the timing chain and drove the distributor and oil pump in conventional fashion, with the same practical limit of about 7,000 rpm for the stock oil pump—a maximum of 20.5 US gallons (77.6 l) per minute of SAE 40 oil at 70 psi (480 kPa). An additional sprocket on this shaft drove a second timing chain, 6 ft (1.8 m) long, which drove both overhead camshafts. The length of this chain made precision timing of the camshafts a problem at high rpm and necessitated a complex system of idlers.

The engine also had a dual-point distributor with a transistorized ignition amplifier system, running 12 amps of current through a high-output ignition coil.

All these engines were essentially hand-built with racing in mind. Combustion chambers were fully machined to reduce variability. Nevertheless, Ford recommended blueprinting the engines before use in racing applications. With a single four-barrel carburetor they were rated at 616 horsepower (459 kW) at 7,000 rpm & 515 ft lbs of torque @ 3,800 rpm, and while equipted with dual four-barrel carburetors they made 657 horsepower (490 kW) at 7,500 rpm & 575 ft/lbs of torque @ 4,200 rpm. Ford sold them via the parts counter, the single four-barrel model as part C6AE-6007-363S, the dual carburetor model as part C6AE-6007-359J for $2350.00 (as of October, 1968). Weight of the engine was 680 lb (308 kg).[20]


Examples of racing 427 SOHC'sFord's plan was cut short, however; although Ford sold enough to have the design homologated, NASCAR, after protests by Chrysler Corp., effectively legislated the SOHC engine out of competition despite having earlier permitted the Chrysler Hemi, and the awaited 1965 SOHC vs. Hemi competition at the Daytona 500 season opener never occurred. This was the only engine ever banned from NASCAR.[citations needed] Nevertheless, the 427 found its niche in drag racing, powering many altered-wheelbase A/FX Mustangs (after NHRA banned it from stock classes),[19] and becoming the basis for a handful of supercharged Top Fuel dragsters, including those of Connie Kalitta, Pete Robinson, and Lou Baney (driven by "Snake" Prudhomme) and numerous nitro funny cars that were also highly successful including Jack Chrisman, Dyno Don Nicholson, Eddie Schartman, Kenz & Leslie and numerous injected gasoline drag racing vehicles.

[BRUTAL64]

Yes. But the window is out a couple years and depends on business, etc.

I'm with you on this. When you want to go check shit out----I'm going.:thumbs_up:

Maybe we can get a special price on two.:drink:

[94cobra69ss396]

Lucky guy :drool:
Yes he is but he's a really good guy and deserves it.

Maybe we can get a special price on two.:drink:
Maybe you can get a two for the price of one deal.

[BRUTAL64]

I always liked this Ford 427:

427 SOHC "Cammer"

SOHC engine showing cam, rockers and timing chainsThe Ford Single Overhead Cam (SOHC) 427 V8 engine, familiarly known as the "Cammer",[19] was released in 1964 to recapture NASCAR dominance from the Chrysler 426 Hemi engine. The Chrysler 426 used extremely large block casting that dwarfed the earlier 392 Hemi. The Ford 427 block was closer dimensionally to the early Hemis than to the elephantine 426 Hemi: the Ford FE bore spacing was 4.63 in (117.6 mm) compared to the Chrysler 392's bore spacing of 4.5625 in (115.9 mm). The Ford FE's deck height of 10.17 in (258.3 mm) was lower than that of the Chrysler 392 at 10.87 in (276.1 mm). For comparison, the 426 Hemi has a deck height of 10.72 in (272.3 mm) and bore spacing of 4.8 in (121.9 mm); both Chrysler Hemis have decks more than 0.5 in (12.7 mm) taller than the FE.

The engine was based on the ultra high performance 427 side-oiler block, providing race-proven durability. The block and associated parts were largely unchanged, the main difference being use of an idler shaft instead of the camshaft in the block, which necessitated plugging the remaining camshaft bearing oiling holes.

The heads were newly-designed cast iron items with hemispherical combustion chambers and a single overhead camshaft on each head, operating shaft-mounted roller rocker arms. The valvetrain consisted of valves larger than those on Ford wedge head engines, made out of stainless steel and with sodium-filled exhaust valves to prevent the valve heads from burning, and dual valve springs. This design allowed for high volumetric efficiency at high engine speed.

The idler shaft in the block in place of the camshaft was driven by the timing chain and drove the distributor and oil pump in conventional fashion, with the same practical limit of about 7,000 rpm for the stock oil pump—a maximum of 20.5 US gallons (77.6 l) per minute of SAE 40 oil at 70 psi (480 kPa). An additional sprocket on this shaft drove a second timing chain, 6 ft (1.8 m) long, which drove both overhead camshafts. The length of this chain made precision timing of the camshafts a problem at high rpm and necessitated a complex system of idlers.

The engine also had a dual-point distributor with a transistorized ignition amplifier system, running 12 amps of current through a high-output ignition coil.

All these engines were essentially hand-built with racing in mind. Combustion chambers were fully machined to reduce variability. Nevertheless, Ford recommended blueprinting the engines before use in racing applications. With a single four-barrel carburetor they were rated at 616 horsepower (459 kW) at 7,000 rpm & 515 ft lbs of torque @ 3,800 rpm, and while equipted with dual four-barrel carburetors they made 657 horsepower (490 kW) at 7,500 rpm & 575 ft/lbs of torque @ 4,200 rpm. Ford sold them via the parts counter, the single four-barrel model as part C6AE-6007-363S, the dual carburetor model as part C6AE-6007-359J for $2350.00 (as of October, 1968). Weight of the engine was 680 lb (308 kg).[20]


Examples of racing 427 SOHC'sFord's plan was cut short, however; although Ford sold enough to have the design homologated, NASCAR, after protests by Chrysler Corp., effectively legislated the SOHC engine out of competition despite having earlier permitted the Chrysler Hemi, and the awaited 1965 SOHC vs. Hemi competition at the Daytona 500 season opener never occurred. This was the only engine ever banned from NASCAR.[citations needed] Nevertheless, the 427 found its niche in drag racing, powering many altered-wheelbase A/FX Mustangs (after NHRA banned it from stock classes),[19] and becoming the basis for a handful of supercharged Top Fuel dragsters, including those of Connie Kalitta, Pete Robinson, and Lou Baney (driven by "Snake" Prudhomme) and numerous nitro funny cars that were also highly successful including Jack Chrisman, Dyno Don Nicholson, Eddie Schartman, Kenz & Leslie and numerous injected gasoline drag racing vehicles.

Yep saw a lot of these run in the 60's. They had their own sound. There was only one put in a 66 (maybe 66 or 67) production car.


Really big arcross the valve covers. :judge:

I'd rather have a Boss 429 for the street.:bigthumbsup

[BRUTAL64]

Maybe you can get a two for the price of one deal.

Back in the early 80s my cousin and I were going to build Cobra kit cars and sell them. I still want to do this. It's just getting the money for the first couple. After that they would sell themselves.:motorsmile:

[Vettezuki]

I'm with you on this. When you want to go check shit out----I'm going.:thumbs_up:

Maybe we can get a special price on two.:drink:


There's a Superformance "dealer" right here in Irvine.

http://www.hillbankusa.com/

Though I wonder if you can order your roller factory direct. I would want put the driveline anyway, etc., and don't particularly feel like paying a $10k plus markup.

Anyway, these GT40 rollers are for real, and so is their price. SPF doesn't list pricing but rollers(!) on GT40s.com are in the $70k range. We're talking brand new ZO6 range at least.

[BRUTAL64]

The GTM is an all-new American V-8 powered, mid-engined, original design with a stunningly beautiful hand-crafted composite body shell and a computer designed steel tube frame chassis. It is a fantasy Supercar engineered to be affordable and bring the dream of owning such a car to people whose talents and craftsmanship outrun their bank accounts.
While Factory Five engineering guarantees world-beating performance, the design of the car assures its instant icon status among the World’s finest Supercars. One look proves that while beauty is impossible to define, it is immediately recognizable.


GT40
Capturing the imagination of enthusiastic fans worldwide the GT40 continuation is built to the same specifications as the original was but it also incorporates a few modern upgrades now available to us due to radical technical advances. The Superformance GT40 is asethically correct with almost 90% of the parts being interchangeable with an original. The GT40 boasts an original style chassis, pressed steel roof and beautifully finished body. The GT40 is build to accommodate a big or small block engine with a ZF/RBT transaxle, although, as with all Superformance products the GT40 will be supplied to you without an engine and transaxle.

[Vettezuki]

The GTM is an all-new American V-8 powered, mid-engined, original design with a stunningly beautiful hand-crafted composite body shell and a computer designed steel tube frame chassis. It is a fantasy Supercar engineered to be affordable and bring the dream of owning such a car to people whose talents and craftsmanship outrun their bank accounts.
While Factory Five engineering guarantees world-beating performance, the design of the car assures its instant icon status among the World’s finest Supercars. One look proves that while beauty is impossible to define, it is immediately recognizable.


GT40
Capturing the imagination of enthusiastic fans worldwide the GT40 continuation is built to the same specifications as the original was but it also incorporates a few modern upgrades now available to us due to radical technical advances. The Superformance GT40 is asethically correct with almost 90% of the parts being interchangeable with an original. The GT40 boasts an original style chassis, pressed steel roof and beautifully finished body. The GT40 is build to accommodate a big or small block engine with a ZF/RBT transaxle, although, as with all Superformance products the GT40 will be supplied to you without an engine and transaxle.

I quite like the GTM, but I don't do GM and it depends on a C5 donor and an LSx engine. The GTM is not bad looking, especially for a kit car,the SPF GT40 is classy all the way. Unfortunatley, the SPF GT40 is easily about 2x+ the cost of the GTM. If you were clever and did your own work, you could probably put together a GTM for $30k and it would bitch slap most things around.

[enkeivette]

You can also stroke a 400 1st gen SBC out to a 427 or a 434.

Are you thinking about this for the snake? Realistically the extra cubes will buy you, 40 - 60 hp maybe. If you want to go crazy, invest in more boost and keeping it cool. Way more cost effective. A small stroke increase can be easily done but when you start pulling big cubes out of a small block, the machine work gets expensive and intense, and the block will not be able to handle as much power. Expecially not with boost. Why do you think the LS9 was based off of the LS3 and not the LS7?

[Vettezuki]

You can also stroke a 400 1st gen SBC out to a 427 or a 434.

Are you thinking about this for the snake? Realistically the extra cubes will buy you, 40 - 60 hp maybe. If you want to go crazy, invest in more boost and keeping it cool. Way more cost effective. A small stroke increase can be easily done but when you start pulling big cubes out of a small block, the machine work gets expensive and intense, and the block will not be able to handle as much power. Expecially not with boost. Why do you think the LS9 was based off of the LS3 and not the LS7?

This is just an open question. Instead of buying a new vette or working heavily on mine, I'm thinking of something new and different to do. Unfortunately FOrd doesn't make a "sports car" or I'd be happy to support them directly. However, I love the GT40 and Superferomance makes a very good replica. I also love a proper NA motor. I prefer the styling of the Mark I GT40, but it will only handle a small block package. The Mark II was the Le Mans winner with the FE 427, but that kind of engine won't fit in the Mark I.

[BRUTAL64]

This is just an open question. Instead of buying a new vette or working heavily on mine, I'm thinking of something new and different to do. Unfortunately FOrd doesn't make a "sports car" or I'd be happy to support them directly. However, I love the GT40 and Superferomance makes a very good replica. I also love a proper NA motor. I prefer the styling of the Mark I GT40, but it will only handle a small block package. The Mark II was the Le Mans winner with the FE 427, but that kind of engine won't fit in the Mark I.

A 427 Windsor, with the right heads, will run with the FE 427 all day long.:thumbs_up:

[Vettezuki]

Back in the early 80s my cousin and I were going to build Cobra kit cars and sell them. I still want to do this. It's just getting the money for the first couple. After that they would sell themselves.:motorsmile:

I'm all for entrepreneurship (America better get back to some of its roots about being productive and profitable or it's lights out, but I digress . . . again).

HOWEVER, there really is no such thing as sell themselves or easy money, at least not for long. If it were that simple, there'd be little assembly shops all over the country doing it and there aren't. I think you'd have to be supremely effecient with good relationships and a solid reputation, then maybe you could make a go of it, but I think the first couple years would be pretty tough. Oh yeah, that's in a good economy. People are liquidating stuff like this now for below costs in parts. In any event, I'd never even consider this kind of work for a second in CA, maybe NV or TX. NH might be an excellent choice as it is a very business friendly state and is "fairly" close to Factory Five, so you might be able to develop a good working relationship.

[Vettezuki]

A 427 Windsor, with the right heads, will run with the FE 427 all day long.:thumbs_up:

Are there any Aluminum SBF that can go to 427?

[BRUTAL64]

Are there any Aluminum SBF that can go to 427?

http://www.worldcastings.com/products/engine-blocks/small-block-ford-blocks/

[94cobra69ss396]

Just be prepared to pay around $5,000 for just the block.

[BRUTAL64]

MAN O'WAR 9.500" Deck Aluminum Block

World’s unique MAN O’WAR aluminum block represents the state of the art design in small block Ford technology, incorporating many important features that leading Ford racers have asked for. Tipping the scales at only 90 lbs. the MAN O’WAR is reinforced throughout, and has provisions for two extra head bolts per cylinder to provide superior clamping of the heads, essential for high combustion pressure applications. World’s MAN O’WAR 10° cylinder heads are similarly equipped to be the perfect match to the block. Add 1045 billet steel splayed 4-bolt mains and ARP hardware for bottom end strength and bring on the power adders!

There are many important reasons why World’s MAN O’WAR aluminum blocks are the most reliable of their kind on the market. It features a priority main oiling system which ensures that the crankshaft is lubricated first and the cylinder heads last. Water jackets are expanded over other block designs to improve cooling. And the block is reinforced in all critical areas, including bulkheads, mains, and valleys. It’s a CAD engineered masterpiece!

GET IT PREPPED!
For the enthusiast who is planning to assemble an engine in their home garage, getting the block in a RACE-PREPPED state is a no-brainer. Our experienced staff performs important basic operations like:
• Deck milling +/- .0025”
• Main journal honing +/- .0004”
• Cylinder bore plate honing .001” oversized +/- .0005”
• Lifter bore honing +/- .0005”
• Block hot tanking
• Cam bearing installation
• Freeze plug installation
• Dowel pin and pipe plug installation
• Block deburring
• Machined surfaces sprayed with rust inhibitor
• Protective wrapping
More and more professional engine builders are also recognizing the benefits of ordering race-prepped blocks instead of endeavoring to perform these many tasks themselves. Many have realized that their time can be better spent doing critical assembly work such as degreeing in camshafts and setting up the valve train. By employing race-prepped World blocks the shop’s through-put can be accelerated, and there are demonstrated savings in terms of personnel, shop equipment, space and cash flow.

Whether you're an enthusiast or engine builder, save time and money!

TECHNICAL SPECS

Material: 357 T6 Aluminum
Deck Height: 9.500"
Deck Thickness: .600" minimum
Cam Bearings: Stock - can be bored to 60mm
Bore: 3.990" (bore to 4.000") or 4.115" (bore to 4.125")
Cylinder Head Attachment: Stock plus 2 extra head bolts per cyl. (not req.)
Maximum Bore: 4.155"
Water Jackets: Expanded for better cooling
Lubrication: Priority main oiling system. Dry sump capable
Filtration: Integral mount for spin-on filter
Oil Pan Rails: Stock Ford
Crank Clearance: Up to 4.250" stroke
Main Caps: Splayed billet steel, 4 bolt
Oil System: .500" galleys
Weight: 108 lbs. with caps and sleeves


087572 MAN O'WAR 9.500" bare block, 3.990" bore, 2.749" mains, billet splayed 4-bolt caps

$4,399.99




087572-4000 MAN O'WAR 9.500" prepped block, 4.000" bore, 2.749" mains, billet splayed 4-bolt caps

$4,939.99





087572-4030 MAN O'WAR 9.500" prepped block, 4.030" bore, 2.749" mains, billet splayed 4-bolt caps

$4,939.99





087582 MAN O'WAR 9.500" bare block, 4.115" bore, 2.749" mains, billet splayed 4-bolt caps

$4,399.99





087582-4125 MAN O'WAR 9.500" prepped block, 4.125" bore, 2.749" mains, billet splayed 4-bolt caps

$4,939.99




087582-4155 MAN O'WAR 9.500" prepped block, 4.155" bore, 2.749" mains, billet splayed 4-bolt caps

$4,939.99

[BRUTAL64]

Remember when the 427 Ford was the king of the street and track? It’s more than 40 years later and you can now have the same cubic inches in a lightweight, smaller package that makes more power than the original big-blocks did. Because it’s based on a 351 Windsor, the Smeding Performance 427 Windsor will fit perfectly in your Mustang, kit car or hot rod. The originals were tempermental, not so with this 427. It performs great as a daily driver on pump gas and works well in front of an overdrive transmission, manual or automatic. Talk about performance. Take a look at the power output graph and notice how much tire-smoking torque this 427 makes throughout the power band. Scan all the options available for the 427 Windsor to customize it, and make this the perfect big-inch cruiser for your car or truck.

• Dyno tuned and calibrated with printout
• Medium idle
• Works with power brakes
• Requires 91 octane fuel
• Requires 2,000 stall converter
• Accepts mechanical fuel pump
• Works with overdrive
• 2 year limited warranty, unlimited mileage


http://www.smedingperformance.com/ford/427+Windsor+460+Horsepower.html

[BRUTAL64]

427 W vs. 428 FE: Which Engine is Boss?
Coast High Performance Pits Two Displacement Dynamos against each other To See Which One Is Boss
By Jim Smart
Photography by Jim Smart

Do you remember when displacements above 400 ci were considered big-blocks? do you remember the overwhelming aura surrounding a big-brute Cobra Jet Mach 1 or Torino? When it comes to making power, there really is no replacement for displacement. In our quest to go faster, we've tried to shoehorn more displacement into big-blocks, arriving at nearly 600 ci with some of them. We've done the same thing with small-blocks, pumping as many as 429 ci into a 351W-based block. Aftermarket small-blocks allow even greater numbers, pushing 460 ci. The bonus here is mega-cubes without the penalty of weight. Translated-that's lots of available power from a lightweight package.

So why is it we don't just build a lot of big-inch small-blocks and throw away those old rotund big-blocks. Why do we even mess with an FE- or 385-series big-block anymore when we can stuff a boatload of displacement into something the size of a 351W? We asked Coast High Performance (CHP) this question.

Chris Huff of CHP suggested we build two engines using a nice combination of Coast High Performance and Edelbrock parts, and throw them on one of Vic's dynos. Two engines of similar displacement-a 351W bored and stroked to 427 ci, and a 390ci FE bored and stroked to 428 ci. Which of these engines will make more power and how? Let's find out.

http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/127_0409_427w_vs_428_fe_test/index.html

[BRUTAL64]

http://www.tandlengines.com/ford_windsor.html

[BRUTAL64]

So which one?:p

[Vettezuki]

Thanks for all the info. Money no object, that large bore Aluminum block base looks awesome!

In reality, probably have my pals at Ford Performance Solutions put together a poor man's FI 427. It'd be in the $7,500 range for a ready to drop motor. It'd be a (high nickel) iron block though.

THey can build nearly anything, but here's some off the shelf offerings.
http://www.f-p-s.com/engines/index.html

[BRUTAL64]

I like the specs on the 418. Could be made into a true 427. Good stuff there.:thumbs_up: