2JZ vs. RB26

[Vettezuki]

Ok, lots of noise on this question, I'd like to get a little more concise.

If doing an engine swap:
- which is the more cost effective platform for building reliable power
- which is the better platform, money no object, for building massive power

Pros and cons? Can include NA and Turbo variants.

[BADDASSC6]

2JZ all the way! The stock shortblock it good for ~800rwhp. Don't expe\t to get much more than 5K miles out of a big power build.

26RB has weak rods (relatively speaking) the short block is only good for about 500whp with a good tune. Any slight detonation and you're F'd in the A.

[Vettezuki]

2JZ all the way! The stock shortblock it good for ~800rwhp. Don't expe\t to get much more than 5K miles out of a big power build.

26RB has weak rods (relatively speaking) the short block is only good for about 500whp with a good tune. Any slight detonation and you're F'd in the A.

I don't want to be F'd in the A. One of the other guys here mentioned that the NA 2JZ (not 2JZGTE) is a better starting point because the heads flow better. :huh: Then put on your own single turbo. If I did something like this, I want a quick spool and linear power curve, not a laggy explosion of power. Is two smaller turbos in banks of 3 better than a moderate turbo across all six cyliners. Please to explain. I'm guessing it's all about rotational inertia and that acutally the one moderate turbo is across six is even better than two smaller turbos across 3.

[BADDASSC6]

No way. Stick with the tried and true turbo motor. You can play the quick spool/big power game when you upgrade the turbos. These cars can handle so much boost that I think the material strength dominates the different variables.

[BADDASSC6]

Also the GETRAG transmission in the turbo cars are much much stronger than the N/A cars. The GTR drive trian has a great trans too. I've heard of 8K RPM AWD launches. THe Skylines fame came due to their handling not the power they could make.

[Vettezuki]

Thanks man. :thumbs_up: I'd like to use this motor for a future project car and/or at some point I'll have to decide if I want to continue development with the Vette or go down a completely different road. I'm so soured on GM I don't even want to spend money on aftermarket stuff, but I'll probably mellow out an that at least. We'll see.

[enkeivette]

How is the 2JZ different from the NA Supra motor? I know the TT motor makes about 100 more hp and comes with a 6 speed, but is the long block basically the same? Short block really just as stout?

[BADDASSC6]

For one the compression ratio is different whch means that either the head of the pistons have changed. Second, I haven't heard of the NA motor withstanding the abuse that the turbo motor can. Third the NA motor doesn't come with the same getrag tranny, which is a amazing piece.

[BRIAN]

The 2jz-ge (NA) is a phenomenal power plant on a budget. It has been proven a million and one times. Of course the piston tops, as previously stated, are different in order to increase compression, but essentially the same in every other way including strength. Here are the to know's about going NA-T.

The basic differences between the GE and GTE (not comparing either VVTI editions):
-Most obvious difference to anyone familiar with engines is the TURBOS. The GE has none, thats what the 'T' in GTE means.

-Another is the style of intake manifold, the GE has a manifold developed for more torque development in the lower-part of the rpm band vs the GTE's short runner type. The GE doesn't have more torque; its just that it develops more than it would if it had a GTE-style intake manifold.

-Compression, the GE runs a 10:1 compression ratio and the GTE runs a 8.5:1 compression ratio. The differences are obtained through a thicker headgasket (.2mm for GE vs 1.6mm for GTE) and lower compression pistons on the GTE. The higher compression allows the GE motor to make the most of its power since it lacks turbos to begin with.

-Injectors and Airflow sensors, the GE runs 330cc top-feed high impedance Denso-style injectors and uses a Karman Vortex air-metering sensor to read how much air volume is being injested. The GTE runs 540cc side-feed low impedance injectors (though uses a resistor pak to raise the impedance for the ECU's sake)... measured through a hotwire MAF sensor. The GE's airflow restriction is around 450hp from the stock AFM and the GTE is around 650-700hp depending on several factors.

-The exhaust manifold and intake manifolds port spacing and studs are completely different and will not work with one another unless some machining is involved with the manifolds themselves. There are people who have successfully grafted the upper part of the GTE intake manifold onto the lower part of the GE manifold.

-The GE motor runs a distributor-based ignition system with spark plug wires and a single coil. The GTE runs coil-on-plug ignition with individual coils for every plug. The distributor gets in the way sometimes of the turbo intake pipe

These are just motor differences, there are many little others such as oil squirters, oil feed/return lines, transmissions, etc.

Now onto Similarities:
Both the GE and GTE bottom ends are VERY strong. The only difference being the pistons themselves. Thats right, the rods and crankshaft are the SAME parts!!! The 2jz motor itself was DESIGNED to be turbocharged from the beginning and is built VERY strongly from the factory. No one yet knows the limits of a GE setup, though there are several 1000whp setups on the GTE with the stock bottom-end. Dave H uses a GE motor and ran a 9sec 1/4 mile time with the stock GE block ( a spare 220k mile motor to be specific!)
All in all, it is very doubtful that you will need to build your motor when designing a NA-T setup unless you're gunning for ridiculous amounts of power. The stock cams are roughly the SAME.

As far as the 6 speed, look up R-154. It came factory in all turbo supras from 87-92. It's a bullet proof 5 speed tranny which many have chosen for drag strip success.

Okay I'm pooped:surrender:

[Leedom]

The 2jz-ge (NA) is a phenomenal power plant on a budget. It has been proven a million and one times. Of course the piston tops, as previously stated, are different in order to increase compression, but essentially the same in every other way including strength. Here are the to know's about going NA-T.

The basic differences between the GE and GTE (not comparing either VVTI editions):
-Most obvious difference to anyone familiar with engines is the TURBOS. The GE has none, thats what the 'T' in GTE means.

-Another is the style of intake manifold, the GE has a manifold developed for more torque development in the lower-part of the rpm band vs the GTE's short runner type. The GE doesn't have more torque; its just that it develops more than it would if it had a GTE-style intake manifold.

-Compression, the GE runs a 10:1 compression ratio and the GTE runs a 8.5:1 compression ratio. The differences are obtained through a thicker headgasket (.2mm for GE vs 1.6mm for GTE) and lower compression pistons on the GTE. The higher compression allows the GE motor to make the most of its power since it lacks turbos to begin with.

-Injectors and Airflow sensors, the GE runs 330cc top-feed high impedance Denso-style injectors and uses a Karman Vortex air-metering sensor to read how much air volume is being injested. The GTE runs 540cc side-feed low impedance injectors (though uses a resistor pak to raise the impedance for the ECU's sake)... measured through a hotwire MAF sensor. The GE's airflow restriction is around 450hp from the stock AFM and the GTE is around 650-700hp depending on several factors.

-The exhaust manifold and intake manifolds port spacing and studs are completely different and will not work with one another unless some machining is involved with the manifolds themselves. There are people who have successfully grafted the upper part of the GTE intake manifold onto the lower part of the GE manifold.

-The GE motor runs a distributor-based ignition system with spark plug wires and a single coil. The GTE runs coil-on-plug ignition with individual coils for every plug. The distributor gets in the way sometimes of the turbo intake pipe

These are just motor differences, there are many little others such as oil squirters, oil feed/return lines, transmissions, etc.

Now onto Similarities:
Both the GE and GTE bottom ends are VERY strong. The only difference being the pistons themselves. Thats right, the rods and crankshaft are the SAME parts!!! The 2jz motor itself was DESIGNED to be turbocharged from the beginning and is built VERY strongly from the factory. No one yet knows the limits of a GE setup, though there are several 1000whp setups on the GTE with the stock bottom-end. Dave H uses a GE motor and ran a 9sec 1/4 mile time with the stock GE block ( a spare 220k mile motor to be specific!)
All in all, it is very doubtful that you will need to build your motor when designing a NA-T setup unless you're gunning for ridiculous amounts of power. The stock cams are roughly the SAME.

As far as the 6 speed, look up R-154. It came factory in all turbo supras from 87-92. It's a bullet proof 5 speed tranny which many have chosen for drag strip success.

Okay I'm pooped:surrender:

Could you be a little more specific. :laugh::eek: That is a lot of info.

[Vettezuki]

Thanks BRIAN, that's good to know.

[enkeivette]

The intake and exhaust ports are in different locations? I was getting excited till I read that, different port location = different cylinder head design = different flow characteristics = different, and likely less hp.

But still, might be cost effective to buy a NA Supra, convert to the 6 speed, swap the pistons/ HG, buy an aftermarket head/ cams/ fuel system and slap on your turbo. If you're planning to build the motor anyways, not really so much work. You can do pistons in the car, I'm proof of that.

[BRIAN]

Ehh I really wouldn't say less HP. This is one of those times I wish I had my own concrete numbers as the debate continues on about the exhaust and intake ports today. The GTE has larger intake ports on the head while whereas the GE has larger exhaust ports. I've seen flow numbers but I can't really give you my word on which flows more as neither (as far as I know) have been tested on the same benches one after the other. I'll leave you to make your own decision. I chose the NA head;)

For my personal goals of building a 450RWHp daily for my 89 Supra this is the route I'm going. It's the most cost effective for me including the fact that I still need smog every other year and this motor can deliver. The U.S has smog equipment (EGR) but they run you around 4k to 5k easily. The jap spec motors have ZERO chance of passing, no ports, flanges, or any kind of way of bolting on any kind of emissions, but readily available online for about 2k.

[enkeivette]

Will the TT head bolt on to the NA block?

[BRIAN]

Yes.

Look into the 1JZ too, 9K RPMs no problem.

[st-evo-9*corn fed-8urvet*]

is you want to do a build between these 2 in the US and for being the more stout motor get the 2 JAY-Z hahah, it has more of a supporting base in the US, it can make stupid power, as far as a twin turbo set up ive seen them up to 6XXHP after that most just go single turbo and shoot for 1200HP. there are a gang bang of mod's in the US for this engine.

now as for the RB26det its a great engine, but you gotta take it from the jap perspective as far as how the engine and skyline and the modding of them actually plays out.

japs always aim for a perfect all around car, meaning 350-480hp with great suspention and brake etc. thats y you never see many rb's in the OH SHIT power ranges. it would be fround appon in there car society by the purist.

so the modification pool is limited to moderat hp ranged and everything is aimed and being pretty looking with reliable moderate fun sized power and power bands for the RB.

so stick with a 2jz for availibility of oem and aftermarket parts for all needs of power.

someone did a very good write up on comparing the evo engine and the RB engine and for real it came out to the evo engine being more stout and pretty much a 4 cyl RB engine. so ya stick with the 2jz

[heypal]

http://astrx.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/2jz.jpg

[Vettezuki]

:smack:

[enkeivette]

http://i39.tinypic.com/xcrbxw.jpg

As the accelerator pedal is depressed, it pulls the throttle cable which moves the bucket further from JayZ, causing him to run faster.

[BRUTAL64]

http://i39.tinypic.com/xcrbxw.jpg

As the accelerator pedal is depressed, it pulls the throttle cable which moves the bucket further from JayZ, causing him to run faster.

:rolling::rolling: :judge: :rolling::rolling:

[Vettezuki]

http://i39.tinypic.com/xcrbxw.jpg

As the accelerator pedal is depressed, it pulls the throttle cable which moves the bucket further from JayZ, causing him to run faster.

The photo is offensive. Everyone knows JayZ prefers Popeyes. :picard: