Supercharger vs. Turbo, for the 1 millionth time

[Vettezuki]

THe LS in my 82 Vette is technically regarded as a 2001 Camaro. While personally I'd kinda lean towards a twin screw for FI, that's not an option because (to my knowledge) there were no legal roots/twin screw blower setups for the 01' Camaro (couldn't fit). However, there are C.A.R.B. legal Pro Charger setups and (I think) STS rear mount turbo setups. Mmmm, I really like all motor solutions, but meeting emissions standards and go NA is, well, darned hard. If I just wanted a nice streetable 500+- WHP, which would be better, the ProCHarger, the STS, or really doesn't matter???

Additional points to consider:
I have TONS of space under the rear of my C3, however routing around the IRS may be challenging, I just don't know. I do like the idea of the weight out near the rear axle rather than sitting in front of the engine, and it's obviously taking in outside air, and there's plenty of room for a gigantic intercooler too if I wanted. What I don't like is all that extra tubing running the whole length of the car; installations are not so pretty.

The only down sides to the Pro Charger are pakaging would be tight, plumbing to from an intercooler would be a hell of a puzzle and not such a fan of weight sticking out over the front axle. Also, I get mixed reviews on how long those belts last.

I'm 3,100lbs full wet, and have plans (who knows when) that would actually drop me below 3,000 if I stayed all motor, so adding a little weight with a FI setup is not such a big deal. Anyways, just daydreaming a bit. Gotta finish the damned project car first.

[BADDASSC6]

My $.02

I had a procharger kit form my GT. I will never buy another procharger for any vehicle. I think they make some of the best head units, but they go cheap on there tubing, clamps, hoses, etc...... I found the kit to be maintenance intensive and problematic.

[big_G]

My $.02

I had a procharger kit form my GT. I will never buy another procharger for any vehicle. I think they make some of the best head units, but they go cheap on there tubing, clamps, hoses, etc...... I found the kit to be maintenance intensive and problematic.

I have a D1SC ProCharger on my '68 'Vette for 3 years now. Other than 1 belt shredding an edge (my fault) it has been completely trouble free. I have not blown a hose or clamp yet, at approx. 20 lbs of boost. ProCharging a C-3 is a packaging nightmare. I would love the challenge of building a twin turbo STS C-3 'Vette!

[SeanPlunk]

I would look into the STS. I think it would meet your power needs and would be a lot less obvious than a procharger.

[94cobra69ss396]

The kit for the STS rear mount isn't designed for your C3 chassis so you will have to redo all of the tubing. I think either way the plumbing is going to be a nightmare for you so don't base your decision on that. Both will make about the same peak horsepower given the same amount of boost. The real difference is how the boost comes on. With the Procharger, boost will come on gradually. Meaning that at light throttle the car will drive like it does now. But get the RPMS up where it starts making boost and the car will just pull harder the higher you go. With the turbo you are going to have that power right down low so you are going to have to get used to it. You rode in Adam's car. Now just imagine that same type of top end power but with even more at the mid RPM range.

I've had the Vortech on the Cobra for 5 1/2 years now and I just installed the third belt. I actually installed it 2 weeks ago and the only reason was because it was starting to slip. The Vortech kit also comes with the cheap clamps but like Big G, I hven't had any issue with them on the Cobra. However, I'm running the stock 3.33 inch pulley and I only make 11-12 psi.

[Vettezuki]

Thanks for the info. The STS would be a lil' more special too I guess. I'd have to be concerned with hardening some other bits. I have the Aluminum Dana 44 which has held up fine to my driving so far, but I'm only at 360 ft lbs peak torque. Maybe I'll have to make a trip out to Austin some day so Big G can have a challenge :smack: (Those kit's ain't cheap though.)

[blackax]

http://www.mtiracing.com/camaro-supercharger.html

Not sure if its carb legal

[Vettezuki]

http://www.mtiracing.com/camaro-supercharger.html

Not sure if its carb legal

Hell I didn't even know one would fit under there at all. Interesting. I kinda prefer the sound of a Roots/TS supercharger to the STS Turbo. Packaging would be about 1,000 times easier too. Then again, with a little engine work as it is I could be well over 400 to the wheels and a couple modds drops me below 3,000 lbs (full wet), and golly, that's purty good for a street car. (But more is always more :))

[enkeivette]

I have a D1SC ProCharger on my '68 'Vette for 3 years now. Other than 1 belt shredding an edge (my fault) it has been completely trouble free. I have not blown a hose or clamp yet, at approx. 20 lbs of boost. ProCharging a C-3 is a packaging nightmare. I would love the challenge of building a twin turbo STS C-3 'Vette!

x2

Procharger will be the easiest. You can have it running after a weekend.

Turbos would be cool, that was your original idea. Adding to the cool factor. Plus you'll get all those stupid looks when you tell people you have a twin turbo Vette, like you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Sort of like when I tell people I have 6-700hp, they give me this looks like... uh huh, sure you do. Cough cough 185!

[jsup]

STS is involved with a test of a rear mount turbo system for a C3. Maybe you'd want to contact them.

The issue is keeping it all under the stock hood. If you don't care about that, should be easy.

[SeanPlunk]

FWIW, I talked to a friend who just went turbo and he was lamenting his decision. The car has 100whp more than it did, but he says it's not nearly as fun to drive. He misses having the power available all the time. He said it he was doing it all over again he would put on a twin screw and be done with it.

[94cobra69ss396]

FWIW, I talked to a friend who just went turbo and he was lamenting his decision. The car has 100whp more than it did, but he says it's not nearly as fun to drive. He misses having the power available all the time. He said it he was doing it all over again he would put on a twin screw and be done with it.

What car and what did he have before? Brendan went from a Magnacharger to twin turbo on the GTO and loves the turbos.

[SeanPlunk]

What car and what did he have before? Brendan went from a Magnacharger to twin turbo on the GTO and loves the turbos.

It's a 347ci Cobra like yours. He had a vortech on it and was making around 550 wheel. His new setup is a big single turbo and it makes well over 600wheel. The STS is a twin system and may not have the lag his car has.

[Vettezuki]

It's a 347ci Cobra like yours. He had a vortech on it and was making around 550 wheel. His new setup is a big single turbo and it makes well over 600wheel. The STS is a twin system and may not have the lag his car has.

I ran into a guy at the Chevron late one night. He had a gnarly TT STS on his C6 that had two stages: 1) 600WHP for going to the store 2) 1000 WHP for I don't know what. I don't know exactly how he had this setup. It was done at West Coast Corvette which certainly turns out some hi power Vettes.

He swore it didn't have any detectable lag.


I'd be into the Twin Screw, or more recent Eaton like on the ZR1, but none have an EO/CARB cert for the 2001 F Body. STS and Pro Charger are it.

[SeanPlunk]

I ran into a guy at the Chevron late one night. He had a gnarly TT STS on his C6 that had two stages: 1) 600WHP for going to the store 2) 1000 WHP for I don't know what. I don't know exactly how he had this setup. It was done at West Coast Corvette which certainly turns out some hi power Vettes.

He swore it didn't have any detectable lag.


I'd be into the Twin Screw, or more recent Maggie, but none have an EO/CARB cert for the 2001 F Body. STS and Pro Charger are it.

I'd go STS then :bigthumbsup:

[Vettezuki]

STS is involved with a test of a rear mount turbo system for a C3. Maybe you'd want to contact them.

The issue is keeping it all under the stock hood. If you don't care about that, should be easy.

I don't think they'd be that interested in my C3 because mine is a full LSx swap, not a Gen I SBC. But I sent them a note anyway.

[enkeivette]

Just buy the kit for the Camaro and cut the C3 stuff out of the way till it fits.

[Vettezuki]

Just buy the kit for the Camaro and cut the C3 stuff out of the way till it fits.

I'mma guess'n some things should NOT but cut off . . . :uh:

[blackax]

I ran into a guy at the Chevron late one night. He had a gnarly TT STS on his C6 that had two stages: 1) 600WHP for going to the store 2) 1000 WHP for I don't know what. I don't know exactly how he had this setup. It was done at West Coast Corvette which certainly turns out some hi power Vettes.

He swore it didn't have any detectable lag.


I'd be into the Twin Screw, or more recent Eaton like on the ZR1, but none have an EO/CARB cert for the 2001 F Body. STS and Pro Charger are it.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1039936-mti-racings-ls1-f-body-magnacharger-system-now-available-mail-order.html

The post is a little old but I hope it helps.

Roots supercharger is the way to go all that low down grunt cant be beat.

[SeanPlunk]

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1039936-mti-racings-ls1-f-body-magnacharger-system-now-available-mail-order.html

The post is a little old but I hope it helps.

Roots supercharger is the way to go all that low down grunt cant be beat.

Except by a twin screw blower. Even a TVS Roots blower (4 lobe/160degree) is not as efficient as a twin screw.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/whipple_chart.jpg

That's at lower boost levels too. The difference only goes up as the boost does.

[enkeivette]

If it's not common knowledge: Roots blowers make more heat and will need a lower (8:1) CR to make decent boost. Centrifugal and turbos can make less heat and you would only need to drop the CR down to around (9:1) or even keep it as high as 9.5:1 for the same, if not higher, boost levels.

I don't know why everyone crys about the Procharger kits. The only thing that looks cheap in the kit is the BOV, and you can buy a fancy Greddy one if it bothers you that much. The mounting bracket is thicker than my engine block walls and I could drive over the bonnet with my car and it would hold its shape. So I don't know what everyone considers cheap in the kit. Everyone seems to agree they make awesome head units, which is really all that you should care about.

If I were you I'd look for the cheapest option to lower compression, and see how much you can actually lower it, then make your selection based on that. If you find a sweet deal on a set of pistons do that. Otherwise, new heads. If you land around 8:1, consider the roots, otherwise look at the turbos. If you're lazy and you can't drop the compression more than 9:1, centrifugal.

[blackax]

If it's not common knowledge: Roots blowers make more heat and will need a lower (8:1) CR to make decent boost. Centrifugal and turbos can make less heat and you would only need to drop the CR down to around (9:1) or even keep it as high as 9.5:1 for the same, if not higher, boost levels.

I don't know why everyone crys about the Procharger kits. The only thing that looks cheap in the kit is the BOV, and you can buy a fancy Greddy one if it bothers you that much. The mounting bracket is thicker than my engine block walls and I could drive over the bonnet with my car and it would hold its shape. So I don't know what everyone considers cheap in the kit. Everyone seems to agree they make awesome head units, which is really all that you should care about.

If I were you I'd look for the cheapest option to lower compression, and see how much you can actually lower it, then make your selection based on that. If you find a sweet deal on a set of pistons do that. Otherwise, new heads. If you land around 8:1, consider the roots, otherwise look at the turbos. If you're lazy and you can't drop the compression more than 9:1, centrifugal.


You wont need to lower the CR if your not pushing that much boost. My car ran stock CR 10.9:1 at 7 pounds with no problems (people have run up to 12 psi stock) i'm sure the ls1 can take a few pounds before you need to start to even think about lowing the CR

[Vettezuki]

You wont need to lower the CR if your not pushing that much boost. My car ran stock CR 10.9:1 at 7 pounds with no problems (people have run up to 12 psi stock) i'm sure the ls1 can take a few pounds before you need to start to even think about lowing the CR

FI for me it would mean lowering compression for sure. I'm over 11:1 (how much :huh:) and need to bump the gas to 93 in the summer especially. This wold be a big dollar move that isn't in the cards any time soon; just doing some casual thinking about that options.

[BRUTAL64]

FI for me it would mean lowering compression for sure. I'm over 11:1 (how much :huh:) and need to bump the gas to 93 in the summer especially. This wold be a big dollar move that isn't in the cards any time soon; just doing some casual thinking about that options.

I know I've said this before---just a quick opening up ( and smoothing) of the chambers will lower your compression enough to live with the high compression.

[Vettezuki]

I know I've said this before---just a quick opening up ( and smoothing) of the chambers will lower your compression enough to live with the high compression.

After finishing RX-Snake, we'll do some stuff, including popping the heads and taking a look. I have some sodium filled valves waiting too.

This was a different question. In my case, I can legally (:mad) install an STS Turbo setup or Pro Charger setup. I was just ruminating on the Pros and Cons between those two. Personally, I'd be into a Twin Screw, but there is no EO/CARB cert for my "2001 F Body".

[BRUTAL64]

After finishing RX-Snake, we'll do some stuff, including popping the heads and taking a look. I have some sodium filled valves waiting too.

This was a different question. In my case, I can legally (:mad) install an STS Turbo setup or Pro Charger setup. I was just ruminating on the Pros and Cons between those two. Personally, I'd be into a Twin Screw, but there is no EO/CARB cert for my "2001 F Body".

Pro Charger is my thought. Simple, clean and smooth.:thumbs_up: