RX-Snake: Body, Paint, Name, Logos

[joedls]

We need a name for this--- Like Mazbra or something simular?? "Cobza"---you get the idea.

How about RX Snake?

[big2bird]

How about RX Snake?

"APEX" (Make fun of the rotary seals):judge::laugh:

[joedls]

BTW, I've creaed a special user account for our project cars. Here's RX-Snake (http://www.motorgen.com/garage/showvehicle.php?vid=236)




Do I get a prize for naming her?

[enkeivette]

With a tight budget in mind we could use all paintwithpearl.com stuff.

Candy Orange for the lettering. (Motorgen.com on both sides, in huge letters.)

http://www.paintwithpearl.com/Pearls/cars/goldpearlredchevy3x2.jpg

Blue Pearl over a white base.

http://www.paintwithpearl.com/Pearls/pwp221/bluehood.gif

We could also do a violet or a red pearl, or even a gold pearl over the white. For a very subtle look, you can do white pearl over white, but I imagine the theme of this car will not be subtle.

I was thinking that we could get a large dark blue vinyl cut out of a logo, maybe something like this. And lay it on the hood, over the white base before we clear it. By the way if you guys want to save time and money, we could also do that with the large motorgen logos on the side. Have some large neon orange vinyls made, put them on the white base after it dries for a few hours, then clear over vinyl. That's a great clean way to get a custom look.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2wexn5y.jpg

If you guys like this idea, we should have Steve photoshop a nice one.

This guy cleared over an autobots logo on this motorcyle. You can't even tell that it was vinyl.

http://i34.tinypic.com/2myog7m.jpg

[joedls]

Sean said he'd give you a big hug.

No, thanks. He can give it to you instead.

[Vettezuki]

With a tight budget in mind we could use all paintwithpearl.com stuff.

Candy Orange for the lettering. (Motorgen.com on both sides, in huge letters.)

. . .

Blue Pearl over a white base.

. . .

We could also do a violet or a red pearl, or even a gold pearl over the white. For a very subtle look, you can do white pearl over white, but I imagine the theme of this car will not be subtle.

I was thinking that we could get a large dark blue vinyl cut out of a logo, maybe something like this. And lay it on the hood, over the white base before we clear it. By the way if you guys want to save time and money, we could also do that with the large motorgen logos on the side. Have some large neon orange vinyls made, put them on the white base after it dries for a few hours, then clear over vinyl. That's a great clean way to get a custom look.

. . .

If you guys like this idea, we should have Steve photoshop a nice one.

This guy cleared over an autobots logo on this motorcyle. You can't even tell that it was vinyl.

. . .


I think we'll go blue pearl over white with the candy orange lettering. I'd like to paint the engine bay and interior as well. Gentleman, get ready to sand and prep, this bit will be labor intensive.

I also really like the direction of the RX Snake logo you mocked up. My only concern would be the IP rights to the snake. :huh: Especially considering Ford's penchant for going after enthusiasts for your using their trademarks. It's a touchy area.

[Leedom]

Here is a very rough concept for the RX-Snake Logo. Let me know what you guys think.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/639/RxSnake-01.jpg

[enkeivette]

It's cool. I vote for mine over that one... but nicely done. Make one that looks like mine and let's make a poll. :D

http://i44.tinypic.com/2wexn5y.jpg

I think it's funny that RX was supposed to stand for rotary experimental, so we're getting rid of the wrong part of the model name. Not that 7 is any more an indication of the car than RX, I think 7 denotes the 7th attempt?

[Vettezuki]

I actually like them both. But whatever we do, can we make it so we don't get sued by Ford. Thanks.

[Leedom]

That was my reasoning for doing the snake the way I did it, don't want motorgen to get sued. I will have to do some more rough concepts for people to possibly vote on and then make a really good one.

[SeanPlunk]

It's cool. I vote for mine over that one... but nicely done. Make one that looks like mine and let's make a poll. :D

http://i44.tinypic.com/2wexn5y.jpg

I think it's funny that RX was supposed to stand for rotary experimental, so we're getting rid of the wrong part of the model name. Not that 7 is any more an indication of the car than RX, I think 7 denotes the 7th attempt?

I'm voting for Leedom's. Ford is really going after people and I'm afraid if we use the SVT snake they might come after us....

[BRUTAL64]

I also really like the direction of the RX Snake logo you mocked up. My only concern would be the IP rights to the snake. :huh: Especially considering Ford's penchant for going after enthusiasts for your using their trademarks. It's a touchy area.


I would not worry about it. If FORD doesn't like it, they will send out a letter wanting money. :sm_up_there:

[Vettezuki]

I would not worry about it. If FORD doesn't like it, they will send out a letter wanting money. :sm_up_there:

If it's more than $20, we're on sketchy ground. If we stylize the snake and make it our own, it becomes more and more a grey area. Then only a real prick in their legal department would make an issue of it, which is still possible. I wonder what joedls's preference for direction is?

[94cobra69ss396]

I'm voting for Leedom's. Ford is really going after people and I'm afraid if we use the SVT snake they might come after us....

I thought that they were only after people who were selling unlicenced merchandise. We would not be selling anything therefore we wouldn't be violating the copyright. Enkeivette, this is your field can you confirm?

[Vettezuki]

I thought that they were only after people who were selling unlicenced merchandise. We would not be selling anything therefore we wouldn't be violating the copyright. Enkeivette, this is your field can you confirm?

In the field of IP, if you display a trademarked image, you as the licensee, or sublicensee (having bought a shirt, hat, etc.) will have paid for the right to use licensor's trademark. The fact we aren't selling a product is irrelevant to them. We would be publicly displaying their trademark without having licensed the use of the trademark.

Here's what most likely would happen. We could use it, potentially for a long period of time. Then eventually Ford Legal somehow finds out. Their most likely first course of action would simply be to send a cease and desist order, which means remove the trademark. Even I (and I'm super strict about this stuff) wouldn't expect to be sued for any monetary compensation since as you stated, it is not our intent to profit directly from the sale of merchandise using their trademark. It's just that ultimately, that it isn't what makes it legal or illegal.

[BRUTAL64]

In the field of IP, if you display a trademarked image, you as the licensee, or sublicensee (having bought a shirt, hat, etc.) will have paid for the right to use licensor's trademark. The fact we aren't selling a product is irrelevant to them. We would be publicly displaying their trademark without having licensed the use of the trademark.

Here's what most likely would happen. We could use it, potentially for a long period of time. Then eventually Ford Legal somehow finds out. Their most likely first course of action would simply be to send a cease and desist order, which means remove the trademark. Even I (and I'm super strict about this stuff) wouldn't expect to be sued for any monetary compensation since as you stated, it is not our intent to profit directly from the sale of merchandise using their trademark. It's just that ultimately, that it isn't what makes it legal or illegal.

Do you really think FORD is going to raise a stink about you using the Snake on the vehicle? We sell a number of licensed products (GM) here. I have never seen GM go after anyone for their use on a Vehicle.No matter how they used them.:motorsmile:

[Vettezuki]

Do you really think FORD is going to raise a stink about you using the Snake on the vehicle? We sell a number of licensed products (GM) here. I have never seen GM go after anyone for their use on a Vehicle.No matter how they used them.:motorsmile:

I would guess that's entirely a function of how exposed the car becomes. Additionally, since the car is connected to an entity (Motorgen.com) and not just a private individual, it raises the possibility of them raising a stink. BTW, I'm not saying forget it, just raising a flag and discussing risk aversion. I think keeping the basic design and stylizing the snake will substantially reduce the probability of possible trouble. Let's go ahead and one with a couple of variants of these two designs and see which one everyone likes the most on pure aesthetics. Then we can talk about it in concrete terms.

[BRUTAL64]

I would guess that's entirely a function of how exposed the car becomes. Additionally, since the car is connected to an entity (Motorgen.com) and not just a private individual, it raises the possibility of them raising a stink. BTW, I'm not saying forget it, just raising a flag and discussing risk aversion. I think keeping the basic design and stylizing the snake will substantially reduce the probability of possible trouble. Let's go ahead and one with a couple of variants of these two designs and see which one everyone likes the most on pure aesthetics. Then we can talk about it in concrete terms.

Since you are using the term "Snake" and not "Cobra" I'd say use it. ;)

[BRUTAL64]

Here is a very rough concept for the RX-Snake Logo. Let me know what you guys think.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/639/RxSnake-01.jpg

I like this one. I'd just say make the snake a little bigger. :thumbs_up:

[94cobra69ss396]

I like this one. I'd just say make the snake a little bigger. :thumbs_up:

I agree with Glenn. I like the way this looks better than having the snake on top of the RX.

[94cobra69ss396]

http://i44.tinypic.com/2zq7fk9.png

That one looks good too.

[enkeivette]

My new favorite, I stole Leedoms lettering.

http://i39.tinypic.com/seuc94.png

[enkeivette]

I remember reading somewhere that "x" type of cars were only allowed to be driven on the road for purposes of driving to and from automotive events/ car shows. Which would be pretty much perfect.

By the way, yall need to vote for the last logo. It's a hybrid of both logos, sticking with the theme of the car. :D Plus, it's siiick.

[Leedom]

I remember reading somewhere that "x" type of cars were only allowed to be driven on the road for purposes of driving to and from automotive events/ car shows. Which would be pretty much perfect.

By the way, yall need to vote for the last logo. It's a hybrid of both logos, sticking with the theme of the car. :D Plus, it's siiick.

The future lawyer thinks he is a graphic artist! :laugh:

[enkeivette]

The future lawyer thinks he is a graphic artist! :laugh:

Ouch, my pride. :o

I know it's not nicely done, and it would need to be redone by someone who knows their way around photshop, not someone who spends an hour in paint with a pencil and eraser in zoom mode.

But, I really like the idea of a cascading graphic. I invision a large logo on the center of the hood, underneath the clear coat. And a cascaded graphic will make better use of the space and therefore can be much larger. Plus it's way cooler. :D

A left to right graphic, like my 2nd or your first especially, would need to be about 6" tall by 48" wide. Whereas a cascaded graphic could be more like 36" tall by 36" wide. I think it would go better with the gigantic motorgen lettering on the side of the car.

[SeanPlunk]

Ouch, my pride. :o

I know it's not nicely done, and it would need to be redone by someone who knows their way around photshop, not someone who spends an hour in paint with a pencil and eraser in zoom mode.

But, I really like the idea of a cascading graphic. I invision a large logo on the center of the hood, underneath the clear coat. And a cascaded graphic will make better use of the space and therefore can be much larger. Plus it's way cooler. :D

A left to right graphic, like my 2nd or your first especially, would need to be about 6" tall by 48" wide. Whereas a cascaded graphic could be more like 36" tall by 36" wide. I think it would go better with the gigantic motorgen lettering on the side of the car.


For the record I like all the logos so far :judge:

[enkeivette]

Ben! Reset the poll and tell everyone to vote again, people have yet to see the glory of my revised non-copyright infringement logo. :D

[enkeivette]

By the way Adam, do I have your consent to use your awesome art work in my sig? I'll pay you 10 cents on the dollar for every dollar that it makes. :smack:

[Leedom]

By the way Adam, do I have your consent to use your awesome art work in my sig? I'll pay you 10 cents on the dollar for every dollar that it makes. :smack:

Make is 50 cents and it is a deal.:sm_laughing:

[Leedom]

Ouch, my pride. :o

I know it's not nicely done, and it would need to be redone by someone who knows their way around photshop, not someone who spends an hour in paint with a pencil and eraser in zoom mode.

But, I really like the idea of a cascading graphic. I invision a large logo on the center of the hood, underneath the clear coat. And a cascaded graphic will make better use of the space and therefore can be much larger. Plus it's way cooler. :D

A left to right graphic, like my 2nd or your first especially, would need to be about 6" tall by 48" wide. Whereas a cascaded graphic could be more like 36" tall by 36" wide. I think it would go better with the gigantic motorgen lettering on the side of the car.

Adam, I do understand the reason for your design and I do not think it in itself is a bad design. We could realistically use both. My design can be more of the side emblems and yours the hood graphic. Once I get some pictures of the profile of the car and such I got some paint ideas that would mirror Motorgen's design style. The first concept that I am thinking of would be easy for you to do.

[enkeivette]

Make is 50 cents and it is a deal.:sm_laughing:

:beer:

Maybe ditch the - and have the snake head closer and curve over the X. That would help keep it compact, and make the head bigger (that's what she said) to make Brtual happy.

[BRUTAL64]

:beer:

Maybe ditch the - and have the snake head closer and curve over the X. That would help keep it compact, and make the head bigger (that's what she said) to make Brtual happy.

Yes, you need to keep Brutal Happy!!!!!

Yes, a bigger head (she said it was too big already) and heavier lines on the snake--other wise it it is nearly perfect. Even in the long layout as is. :thumbs_up:


Adam I wish I had your talent.:drink:


I had a thought (yea I know:sm_up_there:) how about for a "another" emblem
You could use the top half of body and head and put the "RX" --each letter "R" on left side "X" on right side--in each back flap of the Cobra. I hope that made sense.

[joedls]

You must all cease and decist from produving any logos, emblems, badges, decals, etc. using the name, likeness, or any interpretation of "RX-Snake". I have not provided anyone with a license to use this "idea". If you would like to proceeed, I GOTTA GET PAID.

[Vettezuki]

. . . Once I get some pictures of the profile of the car and such I got some paint ideas that would mirror Motorgen's design style. The first concept that I am thinking of would be easy for you to do.


I'm all ears, but I also sort of have it on the brain for the car to be a blue pearl over white base with candy orange Motorgen lettering. See enkei's reference pics.

[Vettezuki]

You must all cease and decist from produving any logos, emblems, badges, decals, etc. using the name, likeness, or any interpretation of "RX-Snake". I have not provided anyone with a license to use this "idea". If you would like to proceeed, I GOTTA GET PAID.

Sean will give you two hugs.

[Leedom]

Yes, you need to keep Brutal Happy!!!!!

Yes, a bigger head (she said it was too big already) and heavier lines on the snake--other wise it it is nearly perfect. Even in the long layout as is. :thumbs_up:


Adam I wish I had your talent.:drink:


I had a thought (yea I know:sm_up_there:) how about for a "another" emblem
You could use the top half of body and head and put the "RX" --each letter "R" on left side "X" on right side--in each back flap of the Cobra. I hope that made sense.

Had to read it like 4 time but I got what you mean.

[Leedom]

You must all cease and decist from produving any logos, emblems, badges, decals, etc. using the name, likeness, or any interpretation of "RX-Snake". I have not provided anyone with a license to use this "idea". If you would like to proceeed, I GOTTA GET PAID.

I did not know that Joe worked for Ford too! :rolling:

[joedls]

I did not know that Joe worked for Ford too! :rolling:

I don't work for Ford, but I am the author of this copyrighted idea.

How about RX Snake?

[BRUTAL64]

Had to read it like 4 time but I got what you mean.

See, I told everyone you were smart. Now, you just proved it. :laugh:

[enkeivette]

Adam, connect the dots.

http://i44.tinypic.com/14b2bmb.jpg

Joedls, Adam has already claimed 50 cents on the dollar, that leaves you with... let's see, math... "Mom, what's 100 - 50?" "Oh sweetie, those are two completely different numbers."

210cc Pro Comp, expensive but I didn't look for very long.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pro-Comp-210CC-Heads-for-Small-Block-Ford-289-302-351_W0QQitemZ120358926439QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors _Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item120358926439&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318


351 Heads (Not sure if these will fit, what's the compatiability rule for SBFs?)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/REBUILT-5-8-351W-SMALL-BLOCK-FORD-CYLINDER-HEADS-E7TE_W0QQitemZ270325651380QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotor s_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item27032565138 0&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

[keithc]

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/506/snake.jpg
I like this one too.

[enkeivette]

Adam or somebody would need to redo this on the computer. But you get the idea.

http://i42.tinypic.com/omle.jpg

[Vettezuki]

Adam or somebody would need to redo this on the computer. But you get the idea.

http://i42.tinypic.com/omle.jpg

I like this evolution. Keep developing guys. You're doing great. :thumbs_up:

FYI - I going to make a section for Motorgen project cars and break out the threads and posts into main subjects. It's obvious this is going to get totally out of control trying to do it in one thread.

[enkeivette]

Nah, I'm done. I need to do more hw. Yes, I have hw before school starts, and lots of it. How awesome is that?

[Vettezuki]

Nah, I'm done. I need to do more hw. Yes, I have hw before school starts, and lots of it. How awesome is that?

Sounds like you might actually learn something. :judge:

[enkeivette]

Sounds like you might actually learn something. :judge:

It will definitely be a change of pace not to be able to open the text book (if I even buy it) the day before the final exam and ace the test.

BTW, if we're going to be putting crazy snake logos all over the car, you might want to consider a green pearl over the white. It wouldn't look as sexy, but it goes more with the snake theme. Just a thought.

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/7079/aobg2008co5.jpg
If you look at the lower panel (looks like green pearl over black) this is why I decided against blue pearl over black. The black will sometimes take on the color the the pearl.
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3712/aobgr2008un2.jpg

Flares, not what I was thinking, but possible.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k93/SlideAllianceTouge/photo-3-5.jpg

[enkeivette]

Universal type. I could mold these in and smooth them out to the body, they'd be much easier to do. But I could do it either way, well leave that for the polls.

http://www.re-amemiya.co.jp/gallery/fc3s/fc_satou_go/all.jpg

I'd kinda like to make glass replicas of the bumpers and customize them to be more flat and hang lower to the ground. Nothing fancy, just more Nascar like. That would definitely be a process though, because I would be venturing into new waters, deep waters. But I'm sure I could make it happen given enough time.

[enkeivette]

http://www.motormint.com/ProductImages/fullsize/XNCJJ1.jpg

[Vettezuki]

. . .

BTW, if we're going to be putting crazy snake logos all over the car, you might want to consider a green pearl over the white. It wouldn't look as sexy, but it goes more with the snake theme. Just a thought.


If you look at the lower panel (looks like green pearl over black) this is why I decided against blue pearl over black. The black will sometimes take on the color the the pearl.


Flares, not what I was thinking, but possible.


There won't be crazy snake logos all over the car. We'll place a couple carefully and thoughtfully. Plus I think lizard when I hear green not snake. :smack:

[Leedom]

Here is the logo enkeivette did. I was thinking about something along these lines as well. I think that the scales were a little too much so I removed them This is just a rough concept drawing.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/639/RX-Snake-Rough.jpg

[BRUTAL64]

Here is the logo enkeivette did. I was thinking about something along these lines as well. I think that the scales were a little too much so I removed them This is just a rough concept drawing.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/639/RX-Snake-Rough.jpg

That works for me also. I'm easy. I still think the first one is the best so far. But, that's just me.:judge:


Remember we must keep Brutal happy. Yes, we do.

[94cobra69ss396]

That works for me also. I'm easy. I still think the first one is the best so far. But, that's just me.:judge:


Remember we must keep Brutal happy. Yes, we do.

I like the first one for the sides of the car but I think Adam is looking at putting it on the hood and not the sides. Also remember that there is most likely going to be a carb sticking up out of the hood so having a graphic there might not work.

[Leedom]

I like the first one for the sides of the car but I think Adam is looking at putting it on the hood and not the sides. Also remember that there is most likely going to be a carb sticking up out of the hood so having a graphic there might not work.

Good point Ron. Did not think about that. The hood will almost definately have a scoop of some sort. I will play round with some stuff.

[Leedom]

I'm easy.

We know Glenn, your reputation proceeds you. :farley2::creepy_thumbsup:

[enkeivette]

Looks good Adam. How about with the snake in front of the x?

http://i41.tinypic.com/2dbrucj.jpg

[BRUTAL64]

We know Glenn, your reputation proceeds you. :farley2::creepy_thumbsup:

Well, that doesn't make me happy.:barf:

[Leedom]

Well, that doesn't make me happy.:barf:

In spite of knowing, we still love you though. :bigthumbsup:

[BRUTAL64]

In spite of knowing, we still love you though. :bigthumbsup:

Hugges and kisses????????????:nuts:



:confused::bang::leaving:

[Vettezuki]

Looks good Adam. How about with the snake in front of the x?

http://i41.tinypic.com/2dbrucj.jpg

This is getting quite good. I'm assuming the orange is a place holder for the candy orange that we'll also use on the lettering. I might like to a see a version with blue for the eyes and tounge. A vibrant "cobalt" sort of blue.

[keithc]

Here is the logo enkeivette did. I was thinking about something along these lines as well. I think that the scales were a little too much so I removed them This is just a rough concept drawing.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/639/RX-Snake-Rough.jpg

I think this looks better overall, but I prefer the font in the first rendition. This one looks pretty cartoony.

[enkeivette]

I think this looks better overall, but I prefer the font in the first rendition. This one looks pretty cartoony.

You're cartoony.

Ya, I agree, a more serious font would do the trick. I did it by hand because I had a hard time finding an R that was thick enough to be a snakes tail.

[Vettezuki]

Flares, not what I was thinking, but possible.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k93/SlideAllianceTouge/photo-3-5.jpg

I definitely prefer this style of flare to the standard skirt. Let's have some style.

[Vettezuki]

I'd kinda like to make glass replicas of the bumpers and customize them to be more flat and hang lower to the ground. Nothing fancy, just more Nascar like. That would definitely be a process though, because I would be venturing into new waters, deep waters. But I'm sure I could make it happen given enough time.

http://www.motormint.com/ProductImages/fullsize/XNCJJ1.jpg


I like this idea. I'll support you however I can and we can begin soon. Check the development phases in the main thread. I'm trying to keep the whole project within six months.

[enkeivette]

I think this looks better overall, but I prefer the font in the first rendition. This one looks pretty cartoony.

Gettin warmer, minus the R now being black. But Adam will fix it. :bigthumbsup:

http://i43.tinypic.com/2v0o602.jpg

[kameleongt]

well guys if you decide with anything from House of Kolor I can get you a great price on everything from paints sandpaper and all that fun stuff. :)

[Vettezuki]

well guys if you decide with anything from House of Kolor I can get you a great price on everything from paints sandpaper and all that fun stuff. :)

enkeivette, who's the lead on the body/paint may be talking to you. :) We'll see how the budget shakes out in the next couple months.

[enkeivette]

I've been thinking about this, if we don't need a paint job that will last 20 years on this car, it would be best not to strip this thing down to bare metal/ plastic. (Just in the places that it needs to be, for body work).

Skipping this step will allow us to save many hours stripping (and dollars on sand paper and chemical strippers), and more importantly it will allow us to skip the primer surfacer phase (which will save another $100, more sand paper, and many, many more hours guide coat/ block sanding). I vote to feather edge scratches and simply scuff the factory paint with 400 (maybe cover with epoxy if funds allow) or maybe 600 if we dont prime and take down only the places to receive body work to bare metal. This will save A LOT of time.

Fender flares! There are a few routes. If someone wants to cough up $150 for these:
http://i15.ebayimg.com/06/i/001/12/28/538c_1.JPG We can do it the easy way, I would outline where they are to be mounted, cut the metal fenders off the car, and glue/ screw/ mold these in place. (I should have enough of that $50 glue left to do this) This will buy us about 2 1/2" of track width, not very much. Or, I could space these out, and fill in the gap with glass, then mold them in transition smothly. (Unless these are bolt on replacements, that would be too easy.)

Or we could do it the hard way. :D I was thinking that I could lay some foam on the car, and cut away till we get the shape that we like. Then lay out a set of our own in glass, cut away the metal, bond them in place, and spend lots of time with filler shaping them to get it looking good. This will obviously take A LOT longer, but we would be able to make them as wide as we want and I should be able to do it for about $40 (Since I should have enough resin already).

[Vettezuki]

I've been thinking about this, if we don't need a paint job that will last 20 years on this car, it would be best not to strip this thing down to bare metal/ plastic. (Just in the places that it needs to be, for body work).

Skipping this step will allow us to save many hours stripping (and dollars on sand paper and chemical strippers), and more importantly it will allow us to skip the primer surfacer phase (which will save another $100, more sand paper, and many, many more hours guide coat/ block sanding). I vote to feather edge scratches and simply scuff the factory paint with 400 (maybe cover with epoxy if funds allow) or maybe 600 if we dont prime and take down only the places to receive body work to bare metal. This will save A LOT of time.


In principle this is fine with me. There are a couple spots where the body is down to bare metal. Most notably the passenger front quarter panel because of something I did. Would a little bare metal here and there cause any problems to using this strategy?

Instead of a 20 year quality paint job, would this be a good 5 year durabilty? How about other issues like final finish? Could it still be color sanded to at least slightly better than OEM orange peel?

BTW, what bout touch ups on pearl paint job. I'm thinking maybe to just go with a flat arctic white and candy letters. THe pearl would look great, but this car is gonna see a lot of action and I'm wondering how that pearl is going to look if it needs to be touched up several times.:huh: Or is it candy that's near impossible to match, I get confused.



Fender flares! There are a few routes. If someone wants to cough up $150 for these:
http://i15.ebayimg.com/06/i/001/12/28/538c_1.JPG We can do it the easy way, I would outline where they are to be mounted, cut the metal fenders off the car, and glue/ screw/ mold these in place. (I should have enough of that $50 glue left to do this) This will buy us about 2 1/2" of track width, not very much. Or, I could space these out, and fill in the gap with glass, then mold them in transition smothly. (Unless these are bolt on replacements, that would be too easy.)

In the pic these look fine, though if we go with a fuel cell instead of stock tank, I'd like to glass over the filler cap. An extra 2.5 inches track on each side should be plenty. I imagine something like a 255 - 275 max width. No need for anything wider on a 10 second car with this weight as far as I understand.

Or we could do it the hard way. :D I was thinking that I could lay some foam on the car, and cut away till we get the shape that we like. Then lay out a set of our own in glass, cut away the metal, bond them in place, and spend lots of time with filler shaping them to get it looking good. This will obviously take A LOT longer, but we would be able to make them as wide as we want and I should be able to do it for about $40 (Since I should have enough resin already).

Probably I'd prefer to use the off the shelf flares, then spend a little extra time on the idea you had for the front and rear bumper. I think that would have lot more visual impact.

[enkeivette]

Pearl are almost impossible to touch up, candies are worse. The best way to do it is to sand down the entire panel, mask the rest of the car, and touch up the base, blend the pearl, then re-clear. If you want to do it, we should do it, have no fear.

The problem with taking it down to bare metal is that we will wave the body, this will need to be reconciled with high build surfacer and careful block sanding. If you only scuff the factory finish, it is not an issue. We can just pay attention to getting the body work straight.

If you really want to take it down to the substrate, we can do it and the paint will last longer, much longer, but expect to spend at least another 3 weeks with 3 or 4 guys working on it. You could also try media blasting. I'm not so sure how this works, and if it will require surfacer afterwards, I can find out. But I have no experience with this.

[Vettezuki]

Pearl are almost impossible to touch up, candies are worse. The best way to do it is to sand down the entire panel, mask the rest of the car, and touch up the base, blend the pearl, then re-clear. If you want to do it, we should do it, have no fear.

The problem with taking it down to bare metal is that we will wave the body, this will need to be reconciled with high build surfacer and careful block sanding. If you only scuff the factory finish, it is not an issue. We can just pay attention to getting the body work straight.

If you really want to take it down to the substrate, we can do it and the paint will last longer, much longer, but expect to spend at least another 3 weeks with 3 or 4 guys working on it. You could also try media blasting. I'm not so sure how this works, and if it will require surfacer afterwards, I can find out. But I have no experience with this.


Thanks for the additional info. See my post about registration in the main thread. It looks like this will be a trailer queen. Please talk to your buddy and see exactly what he did.

I'm leaning towards scuff the paint and go with a non-pearl solid color with candy letters for this project. The next (yes, there will be more) maybe we could step it up with going down to the body and doing a more extravagant paint job. I think I'd like to use those off the shelf flares. But would, if you are down, go after the redone bumpers. I think this is focusing on a strong but manageable challenge. This is going to involve you A LOT, what do think of that direction?

[enkeivette]

Thanks for the additional info. See my post about registration in the main thread. It looks like this will be a trailer queen. Please talk to your buddy and see exactly what he did.

I'm leaning towards scuff the paint and go with a non-pearl solid color with candy letters for this project. The next (yes, there will be more) maybe we could step it up with going down to the body and doing a more extravagant paint job. I think I'd like to use those off the shelf flares. But would, if you are down, go after the redone bumpers. I think this is focusing on a strong but manageable challenge. This is going to involve you A LOT, what do think of that direction?

The blue pearl would only add another $15 (for the pearl flake). We could just mix it in with the clear instead of buying an intercoat clear. And then lay a few coats of straight clear over the pearl clear instead of spending another $100 on intercoat clear. But since I assume you and Sean are the main dudes funding this project, it's your call.

As you've seen my paint/ prep posts I'm sure you realize that the actual paiting does not take very long. So if you want to do the pearl, like I said, aint no thang.

I'm down for doing the body work, just like anything, I'm sure after a few minutes of watching you'll want to step in and try it out. Like all of this stuff it can be learned easily. The bumper will be difficult, but doable I think.

And I'll stop by my friend's house and see what's up with his Ranger.

[Vettezuki]

The blue pearl would only add another $15 (for the pearl flake). We could just mix it in with the clear instead of buying an intercoat clear. And then lay a few coats of straight clear over the pearl clear instead of spending another $100 on intercoat clear. But since I assume you and Sean are the main dudes funding this project, it's your call.

I'm responsible for underwriting the project car, but that does put more onto Sean's shoulders for other things, so yeah, we're funding it. I do need to control costs, but this doesn't sound like any real extra money or time, just a choice.

So here's what we're gonna do.

Scuff Factory paint, not go down to body
Blue Pearl over white, using cost effective method as described above
Off the shelf flares
Dedicated bumper work

As for paint supplies, kameleongt can hook us up. Please make a preliminary list of the amount of the materials you guess will be needed.

Primer
White Base
Blue Pearl
Clear
Orange Candy

Sand Paper and any other prepping supplies you think might be necessary.


As for the bumpers, I have a reasonably well equipped woodworking garage. My brother nad I can build a buck if that's a process you want to explore.

[enkeivette]

I've been thinking about the best way to do this... There are two options that I'm considering.

The ideal way to do it would be to remove the bumper, add on to it with metal and foam to get the shape that we want. Create a fiberglass mold. And lay out a piece in the mold. The problem with this is that we would need to buy a lot more resin and matte, molds need to be thick. And this would be a BIG one.

The other way, more cost effective (I'm thinking about $14 for some matte). Would be to cut the bumper in half (right at the seam) and make a fiberglass piece to replace the old piece (more like a nascar front end) and bolt it on to the remaining portion of the bumper.

Unfortunately since this is a plastic bumper, we can't mold into it. Unless I learn/ get creative with plastic welding.

[enkeivette]

This looks pretty cool, he trimmed the rear bumper and ditched the mouldings. I'd love to do this, but I don't see how we could fill the moulding on the rear bumper. We'd have to make a glass bumper for the rear also. And we'd definitely have to make one for the front, not just an attachment.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2m32s6w.jpg

[enkeivette]

Also the tail lights are ugly and need to be blacked out. Needs to happen, sorry. :judge:

[enkeivette]

Bump.

[Vettezuki]

Also the tail lights are ugly and need to be blacked out. Needs to happen, sorry. :judge:

Unless your Ranger pal sheds some magical light on the registration situation, we don't need any lights or license plate for that matter.

[enkeivette]

Drove by, didn't see his truck. I'll drive by again tomorrow. What did they tell you at the DMV?

I find it hard to believe that all of the cars (some of them being post 75 Corvettes) that attend the Tri City park car shows, sporting faux license plates with only the model year of the car displayed, are subject to smog tests.

Just because some dude behind the couter hasn't heard of it doesn't mean it's not in the books. I'll also check in the law library at school and see if I can get any info on this shizzle.



What do you feel like doing with the bumper by the way? Do you want me to make an entirely new front bumper out of glass?

[Vettezuki]

Drove by, didn't see his truck. I'll drive by again tomorrow. What did they tell you at the DMV?

I find it hard to believe that all of the cars (some of them being post 75 Corvettes) that attend the Tri City park car shows, sporting faux license plates with only the model year of the car displayed, are subject to smog tests.

Just because some dude behind the couter hasn't heard of it doesn't mean it's not in the books. I'll also check in the law library at school and see if I can get any info on this shizzle.


He was actually very helpful and spent some time and talked to others in the office. The closest we could come up with was form 17a, which included various classes of historical vehicle registration. In order to qualify you need to be a vehicle 25 years or older and of historical interest, subject to certification. Our chassis isn't old enough and of no particular historical interest. The other classes had to do with horseless carriage (ancient), Medal of Honor Winner, and the like.


What do you feel like doing with the bumper by the way? Do you want me to make an entirely new front bumper out of glass?

I think that'd be pretty awesome.

[enkeivette]

Damn. Sorry Ben, I guess my friend had his head up his ass.

These are the AWR flares, they're pretty sweet but $440 for the pair, plus shipping. http://www.awrracing.com/images/rxwide/rx7wide_01LG.jpg

We can make one out of glass, I'll stop by this weekend to check out the bumper.

[Vettezuki]

Damn. Sorry Ben, I guess my friend had his head up his ass.

These are the AWR flares, they're pretty sweet but $440 for the pair, plus shipping. http://www.awrracing.com/images/rxwide/rx7wide_01LG.jpg

We can make one out of glass, I'll stop by this weekend to check out the bumper.


Those flares are definitely more to my liking than the off-the-shelf skirt types. You think we can make our own variant from scratch?

The car is currently at 94cobra69ss396's house getting caged. Though I'd be happy to roll out there with you if you'd like to take a look. We can also check in on how things are going and chat about other issues.

[94cobra69ss396]

Those flares are definitely more to my liking than the off-the-shelf skirt types. You think we can make our own variant from scratch?

The car is currently at 94cobra69ss396's house getting caged. Though I'd be happy to roll out there with you if you'd like to take a look. We can also check in on how things are going and chat about other issues.

You're more than welcome to come by and check it out. Just let me know what day and time.

[enkeivette]

I can wait till the cage is done, no hurry on my end. I still need to tune the Vette and put it back together, just let me know when you want me to come by. It will need to be on a weekend obviously.

Laying out glass pieces is simply a matter of getting the shape that we want first. I have no experience working with foam but I imagine the way that we would need to do this would be with foam. We need to spray it out over the stock panels, and cut away at it till we get the shape that we want. From there we can cover the foam with wax, and lay out the mold. Then lay out the piece. After drying and trimming we will need to smooth it out with filler and lots of sanding, then more filler and more sanding, then primer and glaze and more sanding...

I would probably trace out the new panel over the stock fenders, cut away the stock fenders for weight and tire clearance, then glue and screw the panels in place. Then grind a groove, fill and blend. Primer, sand, glaze, sand... you get the drift.

For the front bumper, since it will be a simple nascar style nose, we can just screw sheet metal right into the factory bumper, and lay out our mold.



I'm up for whatever you want to do, but keep in mind this will take a LOT of time and a LOT of resin/ matte. Remember we're not just making new panels, but for this sort of thing we'll be making molds which will take 2 or 3 times as much glass as the panles themselves will. And to make it worse, I will only be in OC on the weekends. But since we'll have multiple people working on this it shouldn't take forever like my Vette did. We can try to use plaster to make these molds to save money but I have no experience with plaster, and I'm not sure that they'd be strong enough being as large as they would need to be. Any kindergarden teachers in the house?

To recap, this can be done, but it ain't no Saturday afternoon project using only Adam's left over resin.

[Vettezuki]

I can wait till the cage is done, no hurry on my end. I still need to tune the Vette and put it back together, just let me know when you want me to come by. It will need to be on a weekend obviously.

Laying out glass pieces is simply a matter of getting the shape that we want first. I have no experience working with foam but I imagine the way that we would need to do this would be with foam. We need to spray it out over the stock panels, and cut away at it till we get the shape that we want. From there we can cover the foam with wax, and lay out the mold. Then lay out the piece. After drying and trimming we will need to smooth it out with filler and lots of sanding, then more filler and more sanding, then primer and glaze and more sanding...

I would probably trace out the new panel over the stock fenders, cut away the stock fenders for weight and tire clearance, then glue and screw the panels in place. Then grind a groove, fill and blend. Primer, sand, glaze, sand... you get the drift.

For the front bumper, since it will be a simple nascar style nose, we can just screw sheet metal right into the factory bumper, and lay out our mold.



I'm up for whatever you want to do, but keep in mind this will take a LOT of time and a LOT of resin/ matte. Remember we're not just making new panels, but for this sort of thing we'll be making molds which will take 2 or 3 times as much glass as the panles themselves will. And to make it worse, I will only be in OC on the weekends. But since we'll have multiple people working on this it shouldn't take forever like my Vette did. We can try to use plaster to make these molds to save money but I have no experience with plaster, and I'm not sure that they'd be strong enough being as large as they would need to be. Any kindergarden teachers in the house?

To recap, this can be done, but it ain't no Saturday afternoon project using only Adam's left over resin.

Thank you for your realistic assessment. My brother will have a lot more time from February and is very interested in getting involved with the body & paint. Maybe he's learned some tricks from industrial design for how to do molds and stuff.

[Leedom]

What are we planning on doing with the inside of the doors? Re-installing the originals or making a cover plate out of aluminum or something?

[Vettezuki]

What are we planning on doing with the inside of the doors? Re-installing the originals or making a cover plate out of aluminum or something?

We won't be reinstalling much of anything. Probably sheet metal.

[94cobra69ss396]

We won't be reinstalling much of anything. Probably sheet metal.

Aluminum covers are easy to make and clean up the look inside. I made some for the Chevelle and it made it look a lot better inside.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/690/medium/2008_0107Image0031.JPG

[Leedom]

I can wait till the cage is done, no hurry on my end. I still need to tune the Vette and put it back together, just let me know when you want me to come by. It will need to be on a weekend obviously.

Laying out glass pieces is simply a matter of getting the shape that we want first. I have no experience working with foam but I imagine the way that we would need to do this would be with foam. We need to spray it out over the stock panels, and cut away at it till we get the shape that we want. From there we can cover the foam with wax, and lay out the mold. Then lay out the piece. After drying and trimming we will need to smooth it out with filler and lots of sanding, then more filler and more sanding, then primer and glaze and more sanding...

I would probably trace out the new panel over the stock fenders, cut away the stock fenders for weight and tire clearance, then glue and screw the panels in place. Then grind a groove, fill and blend. Primer, sand, glaze, sand... you get the drift.

For the front bumper, since it will be a simple nascar style nose, we can just screw sheet metal right into the factory bumper, and lay out our mold.



I'm up for whatever you want to do, but keep in mind this will take a LOT of time and a LOT of resin/ matte. Remember we're not just making new panels, but for this sort of thing we'll be making molds which will take 2 or 3 times as much glass as the panles themselves will. And to make it worse, I will only be in OC on the weekends. But since we'll have multiple people working on this it shouldn't take forever like my Vette did. We can try to use plaster to make these molds to save money but I have no experience with plaster, and I'm not sure that they'd be strong enough being as large as they would need to be. Any kindergarden teachers in the house?

To recap, this can be done, but it ain't no Saturday afternoon project using only Adam's left over resin.


I would love to learn how to work with glass. I have been wanting to make the front fenders on my truck "fit" better with the body panels or even make my own. Let me know when and where and I will be there.

[Vettezuki]

I would love to learn how to work with glass. I have been wanting to make the front fenders on my truck "fit" better with the body panels or even make my own. Let me know when and where and I will be there.

This too is going to be a serious part of the project. We're making whole new parts. I've been chatting with my brother about how to do this correctly. It ain't trivial.

[Leedom]

Some months back they had a show on Spike's Muscle Car where they were making flared fenders for a street track 60's mustang and they kind of did a watch and learn on the fiberglass fenders and making your own. I will try and see if I can track that episode down. They used some type of foam to get the shape they wanted and they glassed over that. The foam was easily shaped the way they wanted it.

[Vettezuki]

Some months back they had a show on Spike's Muscle Car where they were making flared fenders for a street track 60's mustang and they kind of did a watch and learn on the fiberglass fenders and making your own. I will try and see if I can track that episode down. They used some type of foam to get the shape they wanted and they glassed over that. The foam was easily shaped the way they wanted it.

You can mix your own high density foam. There various release agents. What the body kit guys do is the get the part to the shape they want on the car by adding and carving. Then make a mold of that. Then make the new part from that mold.

[Leedom]

That is exactly what they did. I have been know to shape some sand in my day. I would love to help with the shaping.

[94cobra69ss396]

That is exactly what they did. I have been know to shape some sand in my day. I would love to help with the shaping.

Ah, how cute. Adam wants to leave the sand box and play with the big kids.:rolling:

[Leedom]

Ah, how cute. Adam wants to leave the sand box and play with the big kids.:rolling:


Actually when I was playing in the sand it was at the beach and I was "scultpting" a female sunbathing on the beach (was in college). I was not good enough to do hands, feet, or the head but the rest of the body I think I did well. A guy came up to me and asked if I was doing pornography when I was almost finished with the bust of the female. I said no I was doing a whole girl and I was an art student (graphic design is close enough). I used seaweed for the bathing suite. Right after he was satisfied I was not trying to be pornographic he went back to his area and his kid (probably like 8 to 10) was like "nice tits!" I just laughed and kept doing my work.

[enkeivette]

Ah, how cute. Adam wants to leave the sand box and play with the big kids.:rolling:

Ya I'd hate to have a professional artist help form the body. :D

You didn't call this weekend Benny, I waited up all night by the phone and everything. If you want to buy the foam and have some stuff ready, we can actually get this bitch rolling when we do get together. Depending on how cheap the foam is, I may want to use it for the front bumper too. Also, don't know much about foam, but from what I've read, laytex foam would be preferable to urethane foam.

[Vettezuki]

Ya I'd hate to have a professional artist help form the body. :D

You didn't call this weekend Benny, I waited up all night by the phone and everything. If you want to buy the foam and have some stuff ready, we can actually get this bitch rolling when we do get together. Depending on how cheap the foam is, I may want to use it for the front bumper too. Also, don't know much about foam, but from what I've read, laytex foam would be preferable to urethane foam.

Don't you read every single post on this project! If so, you would have known tat Ron was unavailable on Saturday. The next two Saturdays are out for me. Probably it'll wait til it comes back to me in a couple/few weeks. Then you, me, Adam and my brother can discuss method, technique and design and form a game plan. My brother has studied some of this molding stuff in industrial design and is eager to try it out in a real world application.

[enkeivette]

Sounds good benni hanna, I'm excited to get started on this though, she's gonna be a bad motha fu(k@!

I'll be busy next weekend too... Very busy. :D:D:D

[enkeivette]

FYI I have midterms in the beginning of March, so the weeks before... praaabably aint gonna work. But I have Spring break March 23-27... and my main squeeze is working that week, so that could be the monster body week for me. I can show up at noon and leave at midnight.

[Vettezuki]

FYI I have midterms in the beginning of March, so the weeks before... praaabably aint gonna work. But I have Spring break March 23-27... and my main squeeze is working that week, so that could be the monster body week for me. I can show up at noon and leave at midnight.

All right, if you can handle commiting to that week, I'll even plan to take it as vacation. In the meantime I'll push ahead on as many other fronts as I can. Maybe by the end of that week we can have something ready to drop and fire.

[Leedom]

Ya I'd hate to have a professional artist help form the body. :D

I never claimed to be a professional artist. :sm_laughing:

[enkeivette]

All right, if you can handle commiting to that week, I'll even plan to take it as vacation. In the meantime I'll push ahead on as many other fronts as I can. Maybe by the end of that week we can have something ready to drop and fire.

Don't you dare take time off of work for this, I'm not very good delegating work and I don't work well with people looking over my shoulder. If you don't need to be there, I don't need you there, if you trust me not to fornicate with your air compressor again I can do this alone or with a few others. But really don't take time off of work. Someone needs to bring the bread for RX Snake, and it ain't this in debt law skool student.

And if you're uncomfortable leaving your garage open during the day I can even work in the driveway, that's where I did my Vette.

...This car is gonna be sooo mean. I'm excited. I wanna work on it now!

[Vettezuki]

Don't you dare take time off of work for this, I'm not very good delegating work and I don't work well with people looking over my shoulder. If you don't need to be there, I don't need you there, if you trust me not to fornicate with your air compressor again I can do this alone or with a few others. But really don't take time off of work. Someone needs to bring the bread for RX Snake, and it ain't this in debt law skool student.

And if you're uncomfortable leaving your garage open during the day I can even work in the driveway, that's where I did my Vette.

...This car is gonna be sooo mean. I'm excited. I wanna work on it now!

I'm going to work on it too numb nuts not just watch you and say . . . "wow, I wouldn't have done it that way." There is tons in the way of just body prep, even I know that, that is simply labor intensive. I also want to weld up all the holes in the engine compartment and make it smooth as I have no intention of returning it to street use. Or at least that's what I think at the moment and that alone is probably a couple days of labor.

PS I'm looking at possibly using a sequential shifter mechanism for the Top Loader. That outta get you excited . . . banging straight through the gears.

[enkeivette]

I'm going to work on it too numb nuts not just watch you and say . . . "wow, I wouldn't have done it that way." There is tons in the way of just body prep, even I know that, that is simply labor intensive. I also want to weld up all the holes in the engine compartment and make it smooth as I have no intention of returning it to street use. Or at least that's what I think at the moment and that alone is probably a couple days of labor.

PS I'm looking at possibly using a sequential shifter mechanism for the Top Loader. That outta get you excited . . . banging straight through the gears.

Weld up the holes in the engine compartment? Ha! If we set a rough timeline for completion, we will have stuff like that on our list, but come the night before we have it scheduled for paint, we won't be worrying about stuff like little holes here and there, we'll be saying to ourselves "sh*t! we still need to sand the door jambs and remove the windows!" At 2am!

This ain't a show car, set realistic goals. We're making custom panels, I don't even want to think about the hundreds of man hours and bloody sand paper that it's going to take to get them somewhat straight. (I don't mean bloody in the British sense, I mean bloody like my type A and that aids infested fluid that leaks slowly out of a dead hooker.)

But really don't take time off of work. I'm sure I'll spend the first half of the day scratching my head and getting setup, by the time you get home from work I should be ready to hammer shome shtuff out.

[enkeivette]

Also, not sure if I mentioned this, but if you intend for the front bumper to be Daytona like and kiss the ground. It might be wise to have the engine (or at least shortblock) installed along with the front springs.

[BRUTAL64]

:popcorn:

[Vettezuki]

Also, not sure if I mentioned this, but if you intend for the front bumper to be Daytona like and kiss the ground. It might be wise to have the engine (or at least shortblock) installed along with the front springs.

No I don't think so. While I'd like to attempt a ghetto all arounder (for shits and giggles AutoX), it's obviously more of a straight line car in any. Therefore a bunch of drag/downforce on the nose isn't so ideal.

[Vettezuki]

Leedom, enkeivette, DeathCult, how's Saturday March 21 for a first meeting of the minds on body and paint, as well as starting the actual work. Anybody can come and check it out, but I want to maintain some focus on doing actual work (Sean) and 3 to 4 people hovering around a car and tossing around ideas is about the max before clusterfuckation starts to set in.

Aaron, how about the materials list yo?

[enkeivette]

Saturday late morningish will be good for me son. Give me a call Friday if you remember, my mind is consumed with law skool stuff and girlfriend stuff. Remembering my name and things of that sort have become difficult.

[Vettezuki]

Saturday late morningish will be good for me son. Give me a call Friday if you remember, my mind is consumed with law skool stuff and girlfriend stuff. Remembering my name and things of that sort have become difficult.

Will do.

BTW, there are these things called calendars you can set up with appointments and reminders . . . just an idea. :smack:

[Death Cult Aaronmageddon]

I have the pleasure of working a day shift on Saturday. I can meet early evening. 6ish....

[SeanPlunk]

Leedom, enkeivette, DeathCult, how's Saturday March 21 for a first meeting of the minds on body and paint, as well as starting the actual work. Anybody can come and check it out, but I want to maintain some focus on doing actual work (Sean) and 3 to 4 people hovering around a car and tossing around ideas is about the max before clusterfuckation starts to set in.

Aaron, how about the materials list yo?

The offroad cruise is the 21st so I won't be there anyway.

[Vettezuki]

The offroad cruise is the 21st so I won't be there anyway.

That's right. I'm able to do this because a gig just got rescheduled which is I wasn't able to make that. I'd still like to focus on the project car though. You can get the camera though.

[Vettezuki]

I have the pleasure of working a day shift on Saturday. I can meet early evening. 6ish....

I think we'll be going a bit into the evening, according to enkei if he wants.

Anywho, how bout that materials list. . .

[Death Cult Aaronmageddon]

Well if you guys go into the night I can make it after work...

[Death Cult Aaronmageddon]

So I've been asked to provide the basic info for fiberglass and body work.

For Fiberglass we'll need.
1) Mold release wax.
2) PVA (polyvinyl alcohol) It's a barrier coat for the mold.
3) Gel coat.
4) Fiberglass in both fabric and chopped.
5) Resin
6) Polyester Fleece for for form building.

For paint and body.
1) Rage light weight body filler.
2) Glazing compound.
3) Self etching primer and poly primer.
4) Paint and clear coat.
5) Paint gun. I all ready own a good quality one but if someone has one of
those super fancy German ones and wants to let us use it then O.K.
6) Spray booth. I don't have one of those.

O.k. I'm pumped!!! Let's do this...

[Vettezuki]

So I've been asked to provide the basic info for fiberglass and body work.

For Fiberglass we'll need.
1) Mold release wax.
2) PVA (polyvinyl alcohol) It's a barrier coat for the mold.
3) Gel coat.
4) Fiberglass in both fabric and chopped.
5) Resin
6) Polyester Fleece for for form building.

For paint and body.
1) Rage light weight body filler.
2) Glazing compound.
3) Self etching primer and poly primer.
4) Paint and clear coat.
5) Paint gun. I all ready own a good quality one but if someone has one of
those super fancy German ones and wants to let us use it then O.K.
6) Spray booth. I don't have one of those.

O.k. I'm pumped!!! Let's do this...

Word. I'm guessing the only thing we don't need is the self etching primer, sionce I think we'll be going the scuff and paint route. Taking it down to bear metal appears to be massively more work. :huh:

What about method and technique of creating molds? I think you once told me the way places like Veilside worked was to start with the stock. Build up off of that,then mold the result, then create the new part from the mold. Process?

[Death Cult Aaronmageddon]

Word. I'm guessing the only thing we don't need is the self etching primer, sionce I think we'll be going the scuff and paint route. Taking it down to bear metal appears to be massively more work. :huh:

What about method and technique of creating molds? I think you once told me the way places like Veilside worked was to start with the stock. Build up off of that,then mold the result, then create the new part from the mold. Process?

Oh yeah I forgot were not going all the way down to metal route. So were good there.

Yeah, I think the build up method will work for most of what we want to do. We'll have to figure all that out as a group. It's gonna be a lot of work but if we do it right we should have a pretty awesome end result. I have a bunch of ideas all ready.

P.S. Your quote is awesome. Mainly cause our last name. So it's like we're droppin da bomb YO.

[enkeivette]

For Fiberglass we'll need.

1) Mold release wax.
2) PVA (polyvinyl alcohol) It's a barrier coat for the mold.

1 & 2 are the same thing. PVA is a bitch to locate, I've made my own in the past. I've also heard that you can use PAM.

3) Gel coat.

We can get away without gelcoat. We'd prob just end up sanding most of it off anyhow.

4) Fiberglass in both fabric and chopped.

The chopped stuff is much better. And if we're seriously going to make molds and not do it the ghetto way, then we don't really need the better shape holding fabric.

5) Resin
6) Polyester Fleece for for form building.

Don't forget the MEKP! Or the resin will be gooey... forever!


For paint and body.

1) Rage light weight body filler.

I hear this stuff is all the rage... :D We can use whatever's clever. But it might crack, I've used Fibertech and I'd feel safe using it again. The more lightweight stuff like Rage is going to be more prone to cracking... oh say like... where we mold the flares into the metal! Juuust a thought.

2) Glazing compound.

I should have enough left over. I know where we can get more if we run out, but I should have enough left over for this project.

3) Self etching primer and poly primer.

I don't know what self etching primer is, and get the thickest poly primer you can. With all this body work, it will be wavy, the thicker the primer, the more we can block and the less wavy it'll be. I used Slick Sand.

4) Paint and clear coat.
5) Paint gun. I all ready own a good quality one but if someone has one of
those super fancy German ones and wants to let us use it then O.K.
6) Spray booth. I don't have one of those.

I get mixed signals about the budget on this project. We can always spray down Ben's nice pretty garage with some water to trap the dust and get overspray all over his pretty tools. Or, Resurrection Rods spray booth rental = $150 a day.

P.S. We will be going to metal where we bond in the flares. Also, we need that metal to glass adhesive. I also know where we can get this stuff, but it's $40 a tube. So if Kameleon can hook it up...

[enkeivette]

On second thought, if you can score some gel coat for cheap, go for it. It should make life easier in the long run. Also, what is polyester fleece? Also also, we need foam.

[Death Cult Aaronmageddon]

Have no fear, I have sources for everything. I know where to locate everything we need for the fiberglass including PVA (we're not using Pam). We should defiantly use both chopped and cloth fiber for rigidity, unless we want finders that go all wobbly at speed. As far as the resin I thought I didn't need mention the catalyst seeing how it is commonly referred to as two part resin.

Foam, were still trying to figure out. The high density foam I typically use is very expensive and would cost a small fortune for the amount we're gonna use. That's where the fleece comes in. Yes, I'm talking fleece like the kind at Old Navy. You use polyester fleece to form around rigid frames. The fleece is made out of the same stuff as the resin (polyester).

As far as Rage is concerned, if we're doing anything that can't be accomplished with a good quality glazing compound (which I own) will want to use Rage. It's called light weight filler cause it's lighter then metal filler or lead, used in the olden times. If you want we can lead the body, I know how to do that to. Shock to any old timers, yes I have leaded a car before. I know weird, I'm so young.

Primer depends on the time line. There is no need to use a strong poly primer unless the car is gonna be in a primer state longer then a couple months.

Fiberglass to metal bonding shouldn't be necessary unless that's for the rear fenders. I'm under the impression we're making the front fenders.

Self etching primer. Believe it or not paint doesn't stick to raw metal all that well, so the surface has to be chemically etched. There are acid etching compounds but those add a whole extra step. I actually own some self etching primer that might still be good.

I think that covers everything.

[Vettezuki]

enkei

Re: Budget
Iti is to be restrained but doesn't have to be minimized at all costs. Because the expensive bit (labor) is being done by us, we're already saving a ton. To give a concrete example, yes, I'd rent a booth for $150 over shooting in my garage. I'd like to keep total body/paint in a <= $1,500 if possible, including bumpers and flares. But I'm just trying to get a picture of how much will cost to do properly in the first place. TCI (total cost involved) including all the little things like sand paper, scotchbrite, whatever.

[enkeivette]

Sandpaper! There something to add to the list. I spent about 10x as much on sand paper as I thought that I would.

Aaron, I've never heard someone say that cloth should be used for rigidity. But you sound experienced so I'll take your word. I've found that the other shit tends to be stronger, and the cloth is simply better for forming when you have little pre-existing shape to go off of.

I was thinking the opposite, that we'd be doing rear flares and not front flares. My idea was to foam up the rear fenders, carve away till it looks kewl, make some molds, make some glass with an added lip. Cut away the metal fenders leaving enough to screw the lip of the new fenders into, while epoxying the glass to the metal. Then griding a groove along the seam. Filling that groove and shaping the transition with something other than cheap lightweight filler that will most definitely crack, seeing as how we are bonding two dissimilar materials, as if bolting and bonding in flares wasn't difficult enough. If you want to use Rage to fill the seam of the bond, I'm going to make a big disclaimer before I start to work... plan for cracks.

As far as the self-etching primer... cool. From what I've read epoxy is the shit to use on metal. I had good luck with PPG black, others on the autobody forums seem to have the hots for SPI. But I'm just mainly concerned with the poly.

[enkeivette]

I found many pieces of dried up Fibertech, Lightweight and Evercoat adhesive/filler on my driveway. The lightweight stuff will crack like chalk if you try to bend it, the adhesive/filler is a little better but not much. The Fibertech will bend over backwards and never crack... juuust a thought.

[Death Cult Aaronmageddon]

I think we're talking about different uses for filler and that might be why we're confused. This is probably why we are meeting soon. haha Yeah I was talking to Ben some time ago and he said something about buying rear flares and making front flares. I was hesitant to mess with the rear considering it's a uni body and I don't wanna mess with the rigidity of the body.

So were you able to meet Saturday in the evening? I have to work till 5ish so I won't be over till later.

Let's get psyched :drink:

[Vettezuki]

I think we're talking about different uses for filler and that might be why we're confused. This is probably why we are meeting soon. haha Yeah I was talking to Ben some time ago and he said something about buying rear flares and making front flares. I was hesitant to mess with the rear considering it's a uni body and I don't wanna mess with the rigidity of the body.

So were you able to meet Saturday in the evening? I have to work till 5ish so I won't be over till later.

Let's get psyched :drink:

Point of clarification:

Front Falres: None
Rear Flares: Have slight preference to make (for cool factor, learning, etc.), but can buy and mold in
Front Bumper: Mold
Rear Bumper: Mold

[Leedom]

Leedom, enkeivette, DeathCult, how's Saturday March 21 for a first meeting of the minds on body and paint, as well as starting the actual work. Anybody can come and check it out, but I want to maintain some focus on doing actual work (Sean) and 3 to 4 people hovering around a car and tossing around ideas is about the max before clusterfuckation starts to set in.

Aaron, how about the materials list yo?

Shannon and I are going to be going to the Swallows Day Parade in San Juan this saturday (no comments from the peanut gallery) so I am not yet sure when I would be by. What is the plan of attack for the day? If I come in the morning the you would only probably get me till about 11. If I come later then I probably would not get there until 3 or 4.

[kameleongt]

ok guys I can get you anything on the paint body side if you prefer a certain brand just send me everything down to the part number and ill get it, I can get some of the fiberglass stuff, resin but it takes time usually and by time I mean a while because the warehouses we deal with don't carry that stuff. I could also possibly get a booth not the greatest but a booth none the less its in orange but I would need exact time it will be used and for how long<< and it should be a good price. send me a PM with the exact stuff you would want and I can get it same day or at least a price on the stuff :)

[Vettezuki]

Shannon and I are going to be going to the Swallows Day Parade in San Juan this saturday (no comments from the peanut gallery) so I am not yet sure when I would be by. What is the plan of attack for the day? If I come in the morning the you would only probably get me till about 11. If I come later then I probably would not get there until 3 or 4.

Haha, Swallows Day. :smack: OH, sorry.

My guess is enkei will show up around 11:00 and probably scratch his head for a good long time. My brother will swing by in the early evening after work, so really any time. I'm not sure how much real work we'll be donig. I'd certainly like to get it rolling as much as possible if it makes sense (like scuffing and whatnot).

[Vettezuki]

ok guys I can get you anything on the paint body side if you prefer a certain brand just send me everything down to the part number and ill get it, I can get some of the fiberglass stuff, resin but it takes time usually and by time I mean a while because the warehouses we deal with don't carry that stuff. I could also possibly get a booth not the greatest but a booth none the less its in orange but I would need exact time it will be used and for how long<< and it should be a good price. send me a PM with the exact stuff you would want and I can get it same day or at least a price on the stuff :)

Thanks. I think we'll stick to getting the paint and prep materials from you because of the short turn around. The other stuff we'll go off the shelf, Aaron seems to know a place.

[Vettezuki]

enkei,

How much of what kinds of prep materials should we get to start with. I mean sand paper (what grade(s)), scotch brite, etc.

[Leedom]

Haha, Swallows Day. :smack: OH, sorry.

My guess is enkei will show up around 11:00 and probably scratch his head for a good long time. My brother will swing by in the early evening after work, so really any time. I'm not sure how much real work we'll be donig. I'd certainly like to get it rolling as much as possible if it makes sense (like scuffing and whatnot).

I should be there around 4 or so.

[enkeivette]

80/100 or 120 on a DA should do the trick. Don't be afraid of the coarse stuff, it'll save time.

My Neon shifter cable just broke... cable sheered. I hate Dodge. Sooo much. I'm going to have to drive 100 miles to OC in 4th gear, and only 4th gear. Stop lights will be fun. My clutch will loves it.

Also, lost my laptop power cord, so call me if you need me.

[Vettezuki]

What's a DA? Are you bringing a District Attorney?

[kameleongt]

I can get you guys that I have 80/150/180/220/320/400/600/800 in d/a

[Vettezuki]

I can get you guys that I have 80/150/180/220/320/400/600/800 in d/a

Where's your place of business located?

[kameleongt]

in santa fe springs but I live in buena park, ill meet up with you guys ill just tell my boss its for me:) get it at my price he knows that i am working on a project with my friend and could use the supplies. I might even have some of those sizes in my trunk right now.

[Vettezuki]

in santa fe springs but I live in buena park, ill meet up with you guys ill just tell my boss its for me:) get it at my price he knows that i am working on a project with my friend and could use the supplies. I might even have some of those sizes in my trunk right now.

PM Sent.

[kameleongt]

I'll drop off a gal of rage extreme,what glaze did you guys want?, ill have a few rolls of each grit for you guys also

[SeanPlunk]

PM Sent.

What time are we starting? I really want to learn the body work stuff so I want to be there at the beginning.

[BRUTAL64]

What time are we starting? I really want to learn the body work stuff so I want to be there at the beginning.

It's suppose to be cold on saturday.:)

[SeanPlunk]

It's suppose to be cold on saturday.:)

LOL, I hate you :p

[BRUTAL64]

LOL, I hate you :p

You know I didn't mean any disrespect. Just watchin out for ya.:thumbs_up:

[SeanPlunk]

You know I didn't mean any disrespect. Just watchin out for ya.:thumbs_up:

I know buddy. You're coming tomorrow, right?

[Vettezuki]

What time are we starting? I really want to learn the body work stuff so I want to be there at the beginning.

I'd say no earlier than 11. Honestly the first parts are going to be a lot of setup and head scrtching, just getting it up in the air for easier working. A lot of cleaning . . . on second thought be there at 11 and get ready to be dirty. . .

[BRUTAL64]

I know buddy. You're coming tomorrow, right?

No, I had no plans to go anywhere on Saturday. Just what you guys need, me telling you are doing everything all wrong.:judge:

Anyway, it's going to be too cold.

[Vettezuki]

I'll drop off a gal of rage extreme,what glaze did you guys want?, ill have a few rolls of each grit for you guys also

I think we're good for glaze at the moment. We'll have a meeting of the minds tomorrow on what kind of filler we like to use according to the work to be done. enkei was voicing some concern about using rage on anything that flexes. I know nothing about this subject so it's all new to me. Tomorrow, we'll mostly just be setting it up, cleaning and beginning the scuffing process as well as thinking about what we really want the bumpers and flares to look like.

[BRUTAL64]

I think we're good for glaze at the moment. We'll have a meeting of the minds tomorrow on what kind of filler we like to use according to the work to be done. enkei was voicing some concern about using rage on anything that flexes. I know nothing about this subject so it's all new to me. Tomorrow, we'll mostly just be setting it up, cleaning and beginning the scuffing process as well as thinking about what we really want the bumpers and flares to look like.

You don't need any help from me? You know how I do body work. :drink:

[kameleongt]

I think we're good for glaze at the moment. We'll have a meeting of the minds tomorrow on what kind of filler we like to use according to the work to be done. enkei was voicing some concern about using rage on anything that flexes. I know nothing about this subject so it's all new to me. Tomorrow, we'll mostly just be setting it up, cleaning and beginning the scuffing process as well as thinking about what we really want the bumpers and flares to look like.


I have some rage gold with me and ill have it at my buddies house down the street incase you guys want to try it or need it

[Vettezuki]

I have some rage gold with me and ill have it at my buddies house down the street incase you guys want to try it or need it

Cool. My brother filled me in on Rage a bit.

Rage will be used for skim coating, filling in small imperfections, etc. Not for "bonding", major dings and certainly nothing structural.

When Aaron shows up around 5-6 we can review material usage and make sure we're all on the same page and have a common understanding.

So we'll focus on just the labor bits of cleaning, stripping, scuffing and the like. Then pondering what kind of bumpers we want. We'll hold off on "flare" discussion until Aaron gets there because he's had some other thoughts, but there's plenty to do until then for sure.

[kameleongt]

I will most likely roll by around 12 ish see if you guys are out there :x i will be at my buddies down the street at 8 in the morning working on some stuff with him. feel free to give me a call and ill roll by anytime after 10 numbers 7147206865 `Art

[big2bird]

I would also like to know when you guys are there. Maybe I'll loan you guys some air tools, and bring some surprise guests by.;)

[Vettezuki]

I would also like to know when you guys are there. Maybe I'll loan you guys some air tools, and bring some surprise guests by.;)

From about 11:00. :thumbs_up:

[94cobra69ss396]

So how did things go today? What did you discuss and do? Oh, and how did you like the cage now that you saw it in person?

[SeanPlunk]

So how did things go today? What did you discuss and do? Oh, and how did you like the cage now that you saw it in person?

Today we spent most of the day sanding the car down. Enkei then put the body filler on and we're going to sand it out some day this week.

Leedom popped out the sun roof and the dash. Vettezuki took the wheels off and ran things all day.

As for your fabrication work, well, it's incredible! The cage looks amazing in person and the motor mounts are a work of art. You are a master :bigthumbsup:

[94cobra69ss396]

Today we spent most of the day sanding the car down. Enkei then put the body filler on and we're going to sand it out some day this week.

Leedom popped out the sun roof and the dash. Vettezuki took the wheels off and ran things all day.

As for your fabrication work, well, it's incredible! The cage looks amazing in person and the motor mounts are a work of art. You are a master :bigthumbsup:

Thanks. Do you have any pictures of the work today? What are you going to do about the dent on the drivers rear quarter panel near the tail light? Are you just going to fill it or are you going to hammer it out (I hope this is the route you take).

[big2bird]

So how did things go today? What did you discuss and do? Oh, and how did you like the cage now that you saw it in person?

Very nice. The "old farts" were impressed.

http://vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3310

[SeanPlunk]

Thanks. Do you have any pictures of the work today? What are you going to do about the dent on the drivers rear quarter panel near the tail light? Are you just going to fill it or are you going to hammer it out (I hope this is the route you take).

Ben actually taped the action today with his camera via time lapse. He's going to post the video up here soon I think. As for the dent, Enkei pulled it out almost completely and then just had to use a very small amount of filler.

All things considered the body isn't in too bad of shape. We did find that it had a little bit of body work on the driver's side quarter panel, but that was about it.

[SeanPlunk]

Very nice. The "old farts" were impressed.

http://vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3310

Oh and I just want to go on record as saying the electrical work you did Bird is also incredible. The whole thing is amazingly clean :hail:

[94cobra69ss396]

Ben actually taped the action today with his camera via time lapse. He's going to post the video up here soon I think. As for the dent, Enkei pulled it out almost completely and then just had to use a very small amount of filler.

All things considered the body isn't in too bad of shape. We did find that it had a little bit of body work on the driver's side quarter panel, but that was about it.

Good to hear. I got a little scared when you said that you sanded it and then used body filler without mentioning pulling any dents. I should have know better than that going off Adam's previous body work. He seems to be as bad of a perfectionist as me.

[Vettezuki]

Good to hear. I got a little scared when you said that you sanded it and then used body filler without mentioning pulling any dents. I should have know better than that going off Adam's previous body work. He seems to be as bad of a perfectionist as me.

My brother an I continued on to about 10:00pm. I'll put up video in a day or two and fill in detail, but I'm a bit tired now.

[Leedom]

I agree with Sean Ron. The cage looked great. I love working on a car that I can break stuff on. Ben and I realized the dash was totally shot so we decided not to be gentle, we got to break stuff!!! gotta love that. We also ralized that tif I am going am going to be able to drive this beast we are going to have to get a new seat. My head sticks out through the roof as it stands now.

[Vettezuki]

I'll probably get the Time Lapse up latter tonight or tomorrow, but here's some additional pics and details about the way forward.

Sun Roof Removed.
http://motorgen.com/pic/data/500/BodyWorkDay1_4.JPG

Sun Roof. I'm going to disassemble this and weld just the metal part back into to make it a solid top.
http://motorgen.com/pic/data/500/BodyWorkDay1_5.JPG


Early in the day we were thinking to fill the part where the molding was, but later on, Leedom and Death Cult suggested leaving it as a design element. I agree. It actually gives a little dimensionality. Maybe we'll do something with paint of vinyl to do like a snake skin effect.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/500/BodyWorkDay1_3.JPG

However, we will fill in he molding on the front and very back. More welding, yeah!

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/500/BodyWorkDay1_2.JPG

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/500/BodyWorkDay1_1.JPG


No, that ain't smack, but enkeivette likes it almost as much. That's Rage, the green stuff you see on the car. It's like Bondo, but more better for filling in minor dings.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/500/BodyWorkDay1_9.JPG


Later on in the evening when Death Cult came by after work, the Rage had set up enough to work with. Don't have a pic, but he started the Glaze on the rear too.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/500/BodyWorkDay1_10.JPG


Leedom and I make a good team for using inappropriate force to get things done.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/500/BodyWorkDay1_7.JPG


enkeivette will make a new fiberglass bumper that will be a simple, but elegant, sheer line down making for a very clean rear, and who doesn't want a clean rear.

Death Cult is thinking about different ways to do the flares. He's interested in doing some old school metal working, but that could be opening up a can of worms. The other main methods are fleece molding in place (no molds, just working directly on the car) and making an actul buck and mold. The back up for the flares is buying a pair of off the shelf pieces. They're listed some posts back in this thread.

I'll weld the tops of the light covers to the hood to make a single one pice full hood. All lights are being removed. This will never be a street car again, or would require fabbing to do so (not so bad really). I just want to have a freer hand in making what we want instead of trying to preserve some possibility of a path it would never likely go down again anyway.

We'll keep the one light on the trunk lid as NHRA requires a light on the rear.

Two of the wheels have stripped lugs. I may have to drill them out and install new studs. Maybe not a bad idea anyway.

We'll be putting in a Kirky seat, pretty flush to the floor. I'll investigate banging out the floor as it's pretty dented in. We should be able to get a couple extra inches of head clearance pretty easily.


Thanks to big2bird for dropping off his brand new pneumatic inline sander to borrow for this project. It is AWESOME. Also thanks to kamelongt bring over a bunch of sand paper and rage. Mad props to one and all.

Like I told Aaron at around 10:30 when I was pretty spent. When we're done, I want everyone to think, "wow, I didn't know we could do that much, that well, that fast." Let's keep the hammer down.

[enkeivette]

By using the sander to remove the adhesive from the body groove in the way that I/we did, it's going to be wavy as shit. If you want to keep it, it will now need lots of blocking to not like like shit. Also, I'm sure I dented and scratched that area removing the molding. And to fill in the rear holes in the molding area and then fill/ sand those in, will be just as difficult if not more. Because rather than sanding the panel flat, we will have to sand in a groove, not much room to move.

I vote to fill it, or weld it and fill it. We need a clear plan of action before we begin to do things.

[big2bird]

By using the sander to remove the adhesive from the body groove in the way that I/we did, it's going to be wavy as shit. If you want to keep it, it will now need lots of blocking to not like like shit. Also, I'm sure I dented and scratched that area removing the molding. And to fill in the rear holes in the molding area and then fill/ sand those in, will be just as difficult if not more. Because rather than sanding the panel flat, we will have to sand in a groove, not much room to move.

I vote to fill it, or weld it and fill it. We need a clear plan of action before we begin to do things.

It's metal, not fiberglassglass. :judge:You can sand for days and not get it wavey.:thumbs_up:
I wouldn't touch that groove, nor fill the holes. (Weld holes shut and grind down if you wish). Just install some vinyl colored tape later and call it good. Bondo adds weight. I have thought about buying some Lexan, and removing all the windows to boot. Paint/body goes faster without glass also.:)

[big2bird]

For flares, I would think about using the flat black rubber crap 4x4's use. :bigthumbsup:

[big2bird]

My last thought. It's a RACE CAR. If it has NO FUNCTION, it GOES.:nutkick:

[big2bird]

Ben, Is it within the rules to leave the sunroof off?:pot_stir:

[Vettezuki]

enkei -

- We will weld and fill flat the rear and front molding areas.
- We will make the groove look nice.

Focus on design and method for the the bumper first, then we'll move forward.

bird -

- no 4x4 flares, those are for 4x4s :p
- lexan sounds cool, but it's not something that needs to be handled and because there's so many other small items to deal with we'll stick with glass

[Vettezuki]

Ben, Is it within the rules to leave the sunroof off?:pot_stir:

We were thinking about that. I don't know the exact rules but I know that NHRA requires a vert has its top up, and that a Vette have its T-Tops on. *Probably* they'd say we need to have it. We were thinking a net like Nascar side window would be cool, but playing it safe, and giving me more things to weld, I'll put it back in.

Function? To hall ass AND look good while doing it. :lhdevil:

[SeanPlunk]

We were thinking about that. I don't know the exact rules but I know that NHRA requires a vert has its top up, and that a Vette have its T-Tops on. *Probably* they'd say we need to have it. We were thinking a net like Nascar side window would be cool, but playing it safe, and giving me more things to weld, I'll put it back in.

Function? To hall ass AND look good while doing it. :lhdevil:

Have we established what day this week we're working next, or are we waiting until the weekend?

[enkeivette]

enkei -

- We will weld and fill flat the rear and front molding areas.
- We will make the groove look nice.

Focus on design and method for the the bumper first, then we'll move forward.

bird -

- no 4x4 flares, those are for 4x4s :p
- lexan sounds cool, but it's not something that needs to be handled and because there's so many other small items to deal with we'll stick with glass


Design method -> 10 parts foam + 1 knife + artistic talent = plan of action

Ugly body grooves -> Yes they will be wavy, metal or not. If you find the time Mon or Tues night, check them out real carefully and apply some filler where I fucked them up with the pry bar. This way we can block sand all the body work Wed. You will also need to find/ buy a mini rectangular block for the grooves. Durablock prob makes one.

Also, if you want we can mask and prime or at least spot prime Wed. If you don't have a gun let me know. For this we'll need blue or green painters masking tape, and masking paper. Or we can double up newspaper.

Final thought, if you buy paint. Get the slow reducer. Slow. Don't care what billy bob says at the paint supply store or what joe ass clown says on the other forum... slow reducer. :judge: Slooowww.

[enkeivette]

Second final thought :p welding that piece onto the roof, then spending hours filling and sanding and filling and sanding and priming and filling and sanding and priming and glazing and sanding and priming and sanding (Yes those are all necessary, in that order) is a whole hell of a lot of work to do to produce a very gay stock look.

I vote for lexan/ open/ or a net. It'll save time, weight, cost, and you can sell that top on e-bay for prob a decent amount.

[enkeivette]

If you want an example of wavy metal grooves, look at the drivers side door on my Neon. Wavy as all hell, why? Because I don't care about that car, because it's a Neon, and worse a Dodge. Ergo, it deserves wavy panels. Which is prob why Rice-Rocket-Hating-Bird is attempting to dissuade you. :D

[Vettezuki]

Second final thought :p welding that piece onto the roof, then spending hours filling and sanding and filling and sanding and priming and filling and sanding and priming and glazing and sanding and priming and sanding (Yes those are all necessary, in that order) is a whole hell of a lot of work to do to produce a very gay stock look.

I vote for lexan/ open/ or a net. It'll save time, weight, cost, and you can sell that top on e-bay for prob a decent amount.

A good rational point.

Open is almost certainly not NHRA legal, so I'm pretty sure that's out.

Net? I don't know
Lexan? Probably legal, but I don't know

Anybody know a NHRA rule guru? I'll set it aside for now. Plenty of other things to do.

[Vettezuki]

If you want an example of wavy metal grooves, look at the drivers side door on my Neon. Wavy as all hell, why? Because I don't care about that car, because it's a Neon, and worse a Dodge. Ergo, it deserves wavy panels. Which is prob why Rice-Rocket-Hating-Bird is attempting to dissuade you. :D

The groove will be exquisite when we're done. We can make an applicator for the groove (like a template) out of wood or plastic to make it easier to apply and smooth efficiently.

BTW, in case you didn't get my voicemail, you're open windows are

M-W-Th-F 1:00-8:00pm. Wednesday might open up as I think I'll try to take it off.

[enkeivette]

The groove will be exquisite when we're done. We can make an applicator for the groove (like a template) out of wood or plastic to make it easier to apply and smooth efficiently.

BTW, in case you didn't get my voicemail, you're open windows are

M-W-Th-F 1:00-8:00pm. Wednesday might open up as I think I'll try to take it off.

Get the foam yet?

[Vettezuki]

Get the foam yet?

No. What kind of foam from where and I'll get it. Or you can get what you need and I'll reimburse you for it.

Don't have a gun, tape or paper.

[kameleongt]

we can get a small sanding block that should fit in that groove.

[Vettezuki]

Here's (http://www.motorgen.com//vid/showphoto.php/photo/917) a lil Time Lapse from the day.

[BRUTAL64]

Well, not to complain. BUT. Too many ugly guys and only one cute girl. You need :smack: more women if you want me to watch these.

[Vettezuki]

Well, not to complain. BUT. Too many ugly guys and only one cute girl. You need :smack: more women if you want me to watch these.

We could put enkeivette in a dress if that works for you.

[SeanPlunk]

We could put enkeivette in a dress if that works for you.

:gay:

[Leedom]

We could put enkeivette in a dress if that works for you.

Of all the people there who do you think most fits into a dress... SeanPlunk? :nutkick: (Yes, Sean I know you hate me)

[BRUTAL64]

We could put enkeivette in a dress if that works for you.

Ask him if he would consider a Boob job.:nuts:

[enkeivette]

Of all the people there who do you think most fits into a dress... SeanPlunk? :nutkick: (Yes, Sean I know you hate me)

Plunkers was the one who did the most sanding as you can see in that time lapse. Looks like he gets to wear the daddy pants on this project.

Looks like Aaron does good body work. That makes me all fuzzy inside. :bigthumbsup: Was that white stuff you guys put on after the rage, glaze or just a different filler?

Thoughts about the rear bumper. I was thinking about how you want it to cut straight down from the rear deck, but the metal bumper looks like it extends slightly past it, so you need to spend time scratching your head now if you'd rather have the rear bumper bulge out slightly or if you want to ditch/ or cut and relocate further back (by just an inch) the rear metal bumper.

[Vettezuki]

Plunkers was the one who did the most sanding as you can see in that time lapse. Looks like he gets to wear the daddy pants on this project.

Who's your daddy? I'm your daddy, punk. ;)

Looks like Aaron does good body work. That makes me all fuzzy inside. :bigthumbsup: Was that white stuff you guys put on after the rage, glaze or just a different filler?

Glaze.

Thoughts about the rear bumper. I was thinking about how you want it to cut straight down from the rear deck, but the metal bumper looks like it extends slightly past it, so you need to spend time scratching your head now if you'd rather have the rear bumper bulge out slightly or if you want to ditch/ or cut and relocate further back (by just an inch) the rear metal bumper.

We'll check empirically tomorrow. I also had a thought. I wonder if this piece couldn't be worked in sheet metal and welded. It's not such a complicated piece. Just an idea.

[big2bird]

Who's your daddy? I'm your daddy, punk. ;)



Glaze.



We'll check empirically tomorrow. I also had a thought. I wonder if this piece couldn't be worked in sheet metal and welded. It's not such a complicated piece. Just an idea.

Yep. Just weld in a flat piece. (Or embossed daisys or pansys):rolling:

[enkeivette]

Who's your daddy? I'm your daddy, punk. ;)



Glaze.



We'll check empirically tomorrow. I also had a thought. I wonder if this piece couldn't be worked in sheet metal and welded. It's not such a complicated piece. Just an idea.

Good idea, metal would be cool.

And you can scratch your head today or tomorrow, fact remains the metal bumper sticks out too far. If it's within the rules, we should just ditch it. Otheriwse, weld in a bar to replace it or recess it.

[Vettezuki]

Good idea, metal would be cool.

And you can scratch your head today or tomorrow, fact remains the metal bumper sticks out too far. If it's within the rules, we should just ditch it. Otheriwse, weld in a bar to replace it or recess it.

Ok, just looked again. You and your "facts" are starting to pis me off. ;)

[SeanPlunk]

Are we working at all tomorrow, because if not I'm going to go help Heypal take the motor out of his Impala :bigthumbsup:

[Vettezuki]

Are we working at all tomorrow, because if not I'm going to go help Heypal take the motor out of his Impala :bigthumbsup:


You got the PM. From 1:00.

[Vettezuki]

enkeivette, SeanPlunk and Death Cult, worked through the day yesterday. We got fiberglass materials, disassembled the dash, took out the seat, removed the trans, sanded more, and started fabbing the pattern for the mold for the rear and front bumpers.

Here's (http://www.motorgen.com//vid/showphoto.php/photo/919) some more time lapse.

[big2bird]

enkeivette, SeanPlunk and Death Cult, worked through the day yesterday. We got fiberglass materials, disassembled the dash, took out the seat, removed the trans, sanded more, and started fabbing the pattern for the mold for the rear and front bumpers.

Here's (http://www.motorgen.com//vid/showphoto.php/photo/919) some more time lapse.

I love the foam. Looks like your getting ready to give it a shave.:rolling:

[Vettezuki]

I love the foam. Looks like your getting ready to give it a shave.:rolling:

Well in a sense, yes. ;) I you listen closely during the video, you can almost hear the banjos.

[BRUTAL64]

enkeivette, SeanPlunk and Death Cult, worked through the day yesterday. We got fiberglass materials, disassembled the dash, took out the seat, removed the trans, sanded more, and started fabbing the pattern for the mold for the rear and front bumpers.

Here's (http://www.motorgen.com//vid/showphoto.php/photo/919) some more time lapse.

Real men doing real men stuff that only real men can do when real men are alone together.:bigthumbsup:

[big2bird]

Real men doing real men stuff that only real men can do when real men are alone together.:bigthumbsup:

Now I hear the banjos.:smack:

[SeanPlunk]

It was a lot of fun yesterday :bigthumbsup:

I have scratches all over my arms and hands though. Stupid wiring harness :suicide:

[BRUTAL64]

It was a lot of fun yesterday :bigthumbsup:

I have scratches all over my arms and hands though.

Like I said:
Real men doing real men stuff that only real men can do when real men are alone together.:p

[Vettezuki]

It was a lot of fun yesterday :bigthumbsup:

I have scratches all over my arms and hands though. Stupid wiring harness :suicide:

One day, you'll figure out gloves, long sleeved shirts, and the like are your friends. The point is to work (which you did a lot of), not to get all dirty and scratched up . . . unless that's what you're into. In which case, well done. :thumbs_up:

[94cobra69ss396]

It was a lot of fun yesterday :bigthumbsup:

I have scratches all over my arms and hands though. Stupid wiring harness :suicide:

You'll get use to it if you keep it up. I pulled one of the heads on the Chevelle last night and while I was doing it I leaned my arm against the radiator support and noticed there was blood on it. I looked at my arm and it had a 1 inch scrape that was bleeding and I didn't even know it. You get us to the little one like that.

[BRUTAL64]

You'll get use to it if you keep it up. I pulled one of the heads on the Chevelle last night and while I was doing it I leaned my arm against the radiator support and noticed there was blood on it. I looked at my arm and it had a 1 inch scrape that was bleeding and I didn't even know it. You get us to the little one like that.

Yea, it almost funny how used you can get to getting cut. One time, I was working on an engine and walked across the shop, looked back and saw a blood tail behind me. I was leaking badly. Well, it was funny then.:rolleyes:

[enkeivette]

Ben, figured out what's cheaper than Bondo... drywall filler! Seriously. Also, Home Depot sells 16oz cans of foam for $4. Not sure what size cans we had, but they looked smaller than the 16ozers.

[Vettezuki]

Ben, figured out what's cheaper than Bondo... drywall filler! Seriously. Also, Home Depot sells 16oz cans of foam for $4. Not sure what size cans we had, but they looked smaller than the 16ozers.

I actually have dry wall filler in my shed, though it may be dehydrated now. WTF, if it doesn't work we can always start over. All it has to do hold the shape stable while casting the mold. :huh: Worth a go.

[enkeivette]

I actually have dry wall filler in my shed, though it may be dehydrated now. WTF, if it doesn't work we can always start over. All it has to do hold the shape stable while casting the mold. :huh: Worth a go.

Splash some water in there and let it sit overnight.

[SeanPlunk]

It sucks I have that conference today and can't work on the snake :(

[big2bird]

Ben, I dropped off a box of misc. paint you guys might be able to use. Just keep the box, use it, give it away. I don't care.:drink:

[Death Cult Aaronmageddon]

Yo where's time lapse 3. :thumbs_up:

[Vettezuki]

Yo where's time lapse 3. :thumbs_up:

Rendering as we write. I made a *real* time lapse from the hundreds of little videos which was about 100x more work. Gotta find a better way.

[Vettezuki]

Here tis (http://www.motorgen.com//vid/showphoto.php/photo/920). The music is not ideal, but something to give a pace.

The Day's activities:
I shaved the rear bumper and began stripping all the rubberized sound insulation in the cabin, as well as removing the harness from the engine bay. Aaron spent his time continuing with the pattern for the mold of the front bumper. At the end we foamed up the rear bumper again with insulating foam. We're sort of experimenting with two totally different methods.

[Death Cult Aaronmageddon]

Ben it's awesome. Not my favorite band for the music but I didn't have to spend the time making the video. Good work Ben.

As far as the two methods, we need to find someone to play the banjo while we do one of the methods. I'll bring my own soundtrack for the other. haha

[enkeivette]

Sorry I didn't call Ben, phone died. I was in AZ this weekend, sorry I couldn't make it. But like I said, I'm up in OC practically every weekend. Normally free all day Sat till night and Sun till about 4. Anyways it looks like you guys do just fine without :D That front bumper is looking snaaazy.

Shoot some primer before cancer sets in, just spot prime, cover up the glass. Or order some epoxy and I'll buy that gun and I'll do it.

[Vettezuki]

Sorry I didn't call Ben, phone died. I was in AZ this weekend, sorry I couldn't make it. But like I said, I'm up in OC practically every weekend. Normally free all day Sat till night and Sun till about 4. Anyways it looks like you guys do just fine without :D That front bumper is looking snaaazy.

Shoot some primer before cancer sets in, just spot prime, cover up the glass. Or order some epoxy and I'll buy that gun and I'll do it.

Oh yeah, Aaron dropped off his gun and welder. We just need some primer to protect.

[big2bird]

Oh yeah, Aaron dropped off his gun and welder. We just need some primer to protect.

What does the welder's nameplate say as to "Input circuit required." Or, "maximum fuse/CB size"?

[Vettezuki]

What does the welder's nameplate say as to "Input circuit required." Or, "maximum fuse/CB size"?

It's a Lincoln Electric Pro Mig 135. All it says on the front is:

For use on a 20A branch circuit. If used on a circuit protected by fuses, use time delay fuses marked (D).

[enkeivette]

Don't forget to weld up that front fender lip. And feel free to dremel away any welds that look like they'll rise up too high.

[big2bird]

It's a Lincoln Electric Pro Mig 135. All it says on the front is:

For use on a 20A branch circuit. If used on a circuit protected by fuses, use time delay fuses marked (D).

120 or 240v?

[Vettezuki]

120 or 240v?

Sorry. 120.

[Vettezuki]

What quality of primer do we need? In the near term the point is to cover any bare metal spots to prevent flash rust. Of course, there isn't much point in covering anything in a poor or incorrect primer that'll have to be sanded off just the flash rust would.

[enkeivette]

Epoxy is best for bare metal. For now I would hit it with some PPG black (epoxy primer). If you want to save money and only use one type of primer, we could prob get away with using only surfacer, which would be Slick Sand (Evercoat). We will need the surfacer either way to block out those grooves in the door that will be wavy regardless of how much we sand them.

[Vettezuki]

Here's (http://www.motorgen.com//vid/showphoto.php/photo/921) a wee lil' Time Lapse from the last few days of creating the buck for the mold for the front bumper.

[Vettezuki]

Just an FYI, I'm entertaining the idea of doing the dash in Carbon Fiber and using a Blue Pearl for the interior.

Aaron (Death Cult) and I are having fun with the fibergalss for the front bumper and the only real difference in making carbon fiber is that a) you have to pay attention to the weave, because you'll see it and b) you'll need a vacuum pump. But otherwise, not such a radically different process. I have enough wood working tools to make a buck, so that's covered.

[enkeivette]

Bumpers lookin good! Your brother's the shit, you guys don't need me at all. :thumbs_up:

[Vettezuki]

Bumpers lookin good! Your brother's the shit, you guys don't need me at all. :thumbs_up:

There is mountains of labor to do still and your skilled help will help keep moving things along. So finish up with that law school distraction and get back to work on the Snake. :smack:

[Leedom]

Looking good boys. :bigthumbsup: Was gonna come by yesterday but had to go with Shannon to her friend's house for a B-day party. Then on the way back I realized i forgot my phone and had to drive back to LA to get it. :mad:

[enkeivette]

There is mountains of labor to do still and your skilled help will help keep moving things along. So finish up with that law school distraction and get back to work on the Snake. :smack:

Ben, lay off the BET. :sm_laughing::nutkick:

[Vettezuki]

Ben, lay off the BET. :sm_laughing::nutkick:

Black Entertainment Technology? :huh:

[enkeivette]

Black Entertainment Technology? :huh:

Yup. But I think it stands for Big Ebony Titties.

[enkeivette]

You might wanna go buy one of these Ben, I might pick one up down here tomorrow. Good to have, and at $12 even I won't cry about it.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/emails/1509/RetailA/Images/4.jpg
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/emails/1509/RetailA/Images/bottom.jpg

[Vettezuki]

You might wanna go buy one of these Ben, I might pick one up down here tomorrow. Good to have, and at $12 even I won't cry about it.
/bottom.jpg[/IMG]

I have Sawzall (sp?), Cutoff, and Dremel. Soon I'll get some quality sheers. My brother left his knock-off of a German gun.

[enkeivette]

Look above the saw.

[Vettezuki]

Look above the saw.

Is there a reason to get that since my brother left his gun?

[enkeivette]

If your brothers gun is nice, and you intend to use it for paint, then yes. Best not to get our paint gun clogged up with epoxy. Some even use a different gun for clear and color.

[enkeivette]

But if you don't want one, don't worry about it. I think I'll pick one up today.

[Vettezuki]

Say, since we need to cover some bare metal bits, which is best? My brother mentioned to use self etching primer, you've suggested PPG epoxy. Please to edumacate.

[kameleongt]

let me know what you guys want ill try to find it for you guys :) We carry only are own brand paint "northstar coatings" they make a great surfacer or epoxy primer. I can drop some off if you would like to try it I can try getting other stuff its just more difficult.

[Vettezuki]

let me know what you guys want ill try to find it for you guys :) We carry only are own brand paint "northstar coatings" they make a great surfacer or epoxy primer. I can drop some off if you would like to try it I can try getting other stuff its just more difficult.

Is the epoxy primer appropriate for bare metal? This is what I'm a lil confused about. Most of the car is just scuffed, but in several places it went down to metal and has begun to flash rust. Not a big deal, just want to clean it up and primer it to avoid repeating unnecessary work.

[enkeivette]

Epoxy is best for creating a barrier between the old and the new. It's... epoxy. According to the pros on the autobody forum it is best for shooting over rust (can lock it down and prevent it from spreading) or old paint (will lock it down and keep it from interacting with the new paint. Epoxy is not the best for sanding, possibly the worst, and it's too thin to use as a surfacer. But it does what it does well, lock down the old shit and provide practically a clean slate for your new coats. Also it sticks very well to bare metal, better than anything else.

Self-etching primer... don't know what it is, nor have I ever heard it recommended other than at Maaco. Your bro will need to inform about that.

[Vettezuki]

Epoxy is best for creating a barrier between the old and the new. It's... epoxy. According to the pros on the autobody forum it is best for shooting over rust (can lock it down and prevent it from spreading) or old paint (will lock it down and keep it from interacting with the new paint. Epoxy is not the best for sanding, possibly the worst, and it's too thin to use as a surfacer. But it does what it does well, lock down the old shit and provide practically a clean slate for your new coats. Also it sticks very well to bare metal, better than anything else.

Self-etching primer... don't know what it is, nor have I ever heard it recommended other than at Maaco. Your bro will need to inform about that.


The etching I understood better than the epoxy. I get the application of epoxy now and it seems appropriate to our task.

Etching
Paint does not stick to bare metal as it comes out of a die. The surface needs to be scored. This is done with a chemical process known as etching. My understanding is that at the OEM level this is done as its own process. The self etching primer is what is used with bare metal at the non-factory level.

Update
Did a little googling. Seems that it's really only needed for new metal, not even sanded bare metal. It seems the hard core way is to use a dedicated etcher, or better yet, to media blast, then epoxy. But epoxy by itself will not stick to brand, bare, un-"etched" metal.

If you ask the manufacturer like I did you can get the correct answer.

Self etch primer is for metal that has not been etched by some other means. So if you are building a something and weld up some brand new sheets of the steel and do not want to sand them you use the self etch primer. The job of self etch primer is to make a good surface for putting the next layer of paint on to the metal. If the metal is already a good surface for a direct to metal paint then you do not need (and do not want) an etching primer.

The etch primer has been improperly thought of as a way to prevent corrosion. I had the local dupont paint store guy try to sell it to me for that purpose.

For most of what we are doing the better solution is to etch the metal. Either with various chemical methods such as Pickle X or metal pre-treats the paint companies sell. We can also sand the metal or even better sandblast. Then put down a nice layer of epoxy to seal the metal from moisture.

Of course do not forget to use a proper wax/ grease remover before painting.

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/when-use-self-etching-primer-133847.html

[Vettezuki]

So, epoxy is correct for our use. However, if most of the car is going to have a white base, a black epoxy seems . . . :huh:

[enkeivette]

Makes sense, so self-etching has a chemical sanding agent in it for adhesion purposes. Since were not using the section of Ben's garage for pouring and stamping new sheet metal, guess we should go with epoxy.

Yes, white over black would suck, fortunately it also comes in gray. But since the epoxy will go under the surfacer, it's not a big deal. Here's the preferred order.

Sand, fill, sand, etc.

Epoxy prime. (Some say to epoxy prime before filling, I've seen tests that suggest otherwise.)

Poly primer surface. (If this is not done after 24 hours, we'll need to sand again. But you can't cover the epoxy the same day or it might not cure.)

Guide coat.

Block Sand.

Glaze, sand, etc.

Spot prime. (We can use whatever for this, I think urethane at this point is ideal.)

Sealer (Reduced epoxy.)

Coat.



But! If you want to be cheap and quick, if you care less about the long term and more about cost and your time, you can skip the epoxy, and even the urethane. Just shoot the surfacer, use it as spot primer, and finish with at least 400 grit.

Here's what I did on the Vette: Sand, fill, glaze, primer surfacer, sand, glaze, spot prime with epoxy, sand, full coat of epoxy, wet sand, sealer, coat.

Notice, I didn't lay out epoxy first because I took it down the bare substrate, but we're not doing that here. Also, my body is SMC and the poly surfacer has a hard on for SMC. Like epoxy has a hard on fo metal.

I decided to do the full coat of epoxy last min because I wasn't pleased with the way the car looked in the booth, saw too many waves and sanding scratches. Decided to do another 10 hours of block sanding.

[big2bird]

The etching I understood better than the epoxy. I get the application of epoxy now and it seems appropriate to our task.

Etching
Paint does not stick to bare metal as it comes out of a die. The surface needs to be scored. This is done with a chemical process known as etching. My understanding is that at the OEM level this is done as its own process. The self etching primer is what is used with bare metal at the non-factory level.

Update
Did a little googling. Seems that it's really only needed for new metal, not even sanded bare metal. It seems the hard core way is to use a dedicated etcher, or better yet, to media blast, then epoxy. But epoxy by itself will not stick to brand, bare, un-"etched" metal.

Correct answer.:thumbs_up:

[kameleongt]

I have white epoxy here if u guys wanna try that

[Vettezuki]

... Here's the preferred order.

Sand, fill, sand, etc.

Epoxy prime. (Some say to epoxy prime before filling, I've seen tests that suggest otherwise.)

Poly primer surface. (If this is not done after 24 hours, we'll need to sand again. But you can't cover the epoxy the same day or it might not cure.)

Guide coat.

Block Sand.

Glaze, sand, etc.

Spot prime. (We can use whatever for this, I think urethane at this point is ideal.)

Sealer (Reduced epoxy.)

Coat.


While we aren't going down to bare metal, I want to do it otherwise correctly, as you have outlined here.

But! If you want to be cheap and quick, if you care less about the long term and more about cost and your time, you can skip the epoxy, and even the urethane. Just shoot the surfacer, use it as spot primer, and finish with at least 400 grit.

I certainly appreciate you giving me economical options, but the object of the project is to learn processes and have a very good, if not ultra-max, result.

[Vettezuki]

I have white epoxy here if u guys wanna try that

Sounds good. Most of the car will be a white base with a light blue pearl. I'm thinking to do the interior in blue pearl. Is the white epoxy primer appropriate for a blue coat? Anyway, most while be a white base and I'm guessing a white primer is appropriate. :smack: So we know that for sure. How much? :huh: I have no idea how much is an appropriate quantity.

[enkeivette]

The immediate end result will be the same, car won't look different with or without epoxy primer. Epoxy will simply make the paint last longer.

Blue pearl on the interior would be cool if we spray the sub boxes to match. :rolleyes:

Don't lose focus my man, race car. The interior will be stripped, and although leaving it tan would be gay, I think we should try to hide it and all of the little ugly holes, and rough surfaces, etc. I'd shoot it with a black epoxy primer and be done with it. Solid color, durable, semigloss, that's what she needs.

Find out if that self etching stuff will etch old paint. If we could shoot the interior without sanding it... that'll save you guys hours of sanding. (Notice I removed myself from that noun)

[enkeivette]

Doood! We should totally throw in some glow pigment with the pearl to make this car glow at night! Haha. It's sort of blue too.

http://www.paintwithpearl.com/pearlstore.htm

I think the most tasteful way to do this would be to shoot over a high quality pure white, possibly a very fine metallic white, then shoot satin blue pearl in an intercoat followed by 4 or 5 coats of clear. Good clear, it would suck to ruin the effect with a shitty yellowish clear.

The satin pearl is more fine and will leave the car looking less like a glittered 60s Impala with bags and 12" wire spoke rims.



We need to do some test panels to see what effects work best, we should seriously throw in glow pigment btw. How rad would it be to have a radioactive looking snake flying down Fontana at night.

[BRUTAL64]

Doood! We should totally throw in some glow pigment with the pearl to make this car glow at night! Haha. It's sort of blue too.

http://www.paintwithpearl.com/pearlstore.htm

I think the most tasteful way to do this would be to shoot over a high quality pure white, possibly a very fine metallic white, then shoot satin blue pearl in an intercoat followed by 4 or 5 coats of clear. Good clear, it would suck to ruin the effect with a shitty yellowish clear.

The satin pearl is more fine and will leave the car looking less like a glittered 60s Impala with bags and 12" wire spoke rims.



We need to do some test panels to see what effects work best, we should seriously throw in glow pigment btw. How rad would it be to have a radioactive looking snake flying down Fontana at night.

:thumbs_up:

[Vettezuki]

. . . Don't lose focus my man, race car. The interior will be stripped, and although leaving it tan would be gay, I think we should try to hide it and all of the little ugly holes, and rough surfaces, etc. I'd shoot it with a black epoxy primer and be done with it. Solid color, durable, semigloss, that's what she needs. . . .

Who said it's just a race car? If that were the case I wouldn't bother with a lot of things we're doing. It's a project car to give opportunities to explore, learn, have some fun . . . and have something that is eye catching when done. Remember it supposed to do some promotion as well, and a ghetto hack job, unless world beating in performance, isn't going to perform this critical function. No person is required to perform any labor or bear any expense they don't want to on this project. So don't feel as though you're being sucked into paying in time anything beyond what you wish to.

[Vettezuki]

Doood! We should totally throw in some glow pigment with the pearl to make this car glow at night! Haha. It's sort of blue too.

http://www.paintwithpearl.com/pearlstore.htm

I think the most tasteful way to do this would be to shoot over a high quality pure white, possibly a very fine metallic white, then shoot satin blue pearl in an intercoat followed by 4 or 5 coats of clear. Good clear, it would suck to ruin the effect with a shitty yellowish clear.

The satin pearl is more fine and will leave the car looking less like a glittered 60s Impala with bags and 12" wire spoke rims.



We need to do some test panels to see what effects work best, we should seriously throw in glow pigment btw. How rad would it be to have a radioactive looking snake flying down Fontana at night.


Now you're talking. :thumbs_up:

[enkeivette]

Posted on the autobody forums about this. I really think you don't know what you're getting yourself into if you expect to sand the whole interior. But if you're set on that, here's the way to do it, hit everything you can with 320 or better (but more work) 400 grit or even just a scotch brite pad after it's all cleaned up and the rubber & crap has been removed, then shoot an adhesion promoter for all of the spots that you missed, then paint. Or if you broke through to the metal, spot prime, then paint.