[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by enkeivette

Considering our prison systems, do you really believe we are more violent than the mongols?

I didn't compare current US to the Mongols, I gave the Mongols and Vikings as examples of violent peoples who conquered arguably more civilized people. (The details are fascinating and complex, but way beyond a scope even I would try here.)

Maybe there are more gang wars and hooker/ drug murders today, but thats a relatively small percentage of the population. And our gov takes those people off the streets when they catch them.

It is precisely the actions of our state in making these things illegal that causes said underground economy wars and violence. The root cause is the state. Want an empirical example that proves even we understand this? What emerged and flourished during prohibition? What cash cow business ended when prohibition ended? Likewise, the horrorific drug wars in Mexico are a derivitive of the US "War on Drugs". Which incidentally imprisons hundreds of thousands of people for non-violent "crimes", and more than a few times people have been killed, without much consequence, by our beloved police in the course of "executing" current policy. Uncivilized.

Im sure in mongol times, you had to give up your lunch money when the bully came at you with a spear. There was no man in blue to save you.

Nonsense on two accounts. The Mongols won because they were physically superior at conquest by war, not because the victims had no means of defending themselves. Secondly, I'm delighted to pay for security (and do at my biz), but the extortion used to pay for Police really isn't necessary. The economic incentive structures that follow lead to grotesque distortions a market would never tolerate. I'll pay for police and most would. It'd be awesome to be able to fire them by taking my business elsewhere when I didn't like the service on offer. Now? STFU and pay. Uncivilized.

[enkeivette]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

Now? STFU and pay. Uncivilized.

Annnd there it is. Hahaha.


But I get your points.

I agree with all except your argument that making things illegal is what causes violence. Rape doesn't happen because it's illegal. Rape happens because some men are more like dogs than civilized humans.

I could agree with the argument that making drugs illegal creates an underground atmosphere that perpetuates violence as an example. But that isn't true for all crimes. And the laws and law enforcement do affect some good, and do stop some violence.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by enkeivette

. . I agree with all except your argument that making things illegal is what causes violence. Rape doesn't happen because it's illegal. Rape happens because some men are more like dogs than civilized humans.

Your honor, counsel is evading. I didn't say anything about some douche bags raping (an actual violent crime). I refereed to the sound economic principle of supply and demand. Make a supply illegal where demand remains, the equilibrium price rises and those willing to ignore the law . . . violently . . . in search of massive quick profits emerges. I also gave an empirical historical example to illustrate the principle. How something can be theoretically and empirically sound, yet ignored mystifies me. Lewis Black face please. Next.

I could agree with the argument that making drugs illegal creates an underground atmosphere that perpetuates violence as an example. But that isn't true for all crimes.

And I didn't say it was. I'm not a nirvana utopian. I am saying . . . .think.

And the laws and law enforcement do affect some good, and do stop some violence.

And I didn't say they didn't. I question the current mechanism as the only, the most efficient, and the most moral. I object on all counts. I'm 100% positive about the first and third, I'm 99% positive about the second. See, I'm a moderate.

As a side note, I had a lot more admiration for Police as "peace officers". Now they are Law Enforcement. Armed, dangerous, and apparently scared of their own shadows.

So what happens to a half deaf guy whittling some wood in public.

YouTube - Dashcam video of Seattle police...

If you're a member of the state, relatively little (and probably only if there is a public outcry), if anything, will happen to you. Meanwhile, if you use a gun to protect your own property, not actually harming anyone, just showing it to someone who ought not be on your property, you can go to jail for assault. Uncivilized.

I can do this all day. I only use the police and gun example because it's
more "intense". There are endless examples that are more "mundane" and technical.

Personally, I think we're (human beings) far closer to caves and trees than our potential and this is perhaps all just part of our development. Fine. Another 2,000 years from now, people look back wonder why we could have thought what we do. I'm just on the side saying some of the things most people think are necessary aren't, or there's at least a better way to solve the same problems.

[enkeivette]

Holy shit, did he kill that guy? Where did he shoot him?


You said "It is precisely the actions of our state in making these things illegal that causes said underground economy wars and violence. The root cause is the state."

Which means that you agree that making things illegal is what causes "gang wars, hooker/ drug murders." And as far as I can see, that is the main source of violence in our society, so, what other violence are you talking about that makes us less civilized?


Also, if someone comes onto your property maliciously, in Texas shooting them isn't illegal. It's called the castle doctrine. Someone breaks in, you can kill them. I think you'd like it better there.

[enkeivette]

His first shot was 4 seconds after his first request, then he unloaded 5 rounds.

[enkeivette]

Wow, he was killed.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/2...rican-seattle/

The guy was deaf and the knife was closed. That cop was a pussy, he couldn't have maintained distance and run around in front of the guy? That's murder.

[Small White Car]

State sanctioned murder in this case.


I like the idea of firing the cops and believe it or not, it can be done. My city police force contracts out to the next town over, Compton at one point fired the entire corrupt police force and brought in the sheriff. It isn't easy but it can be done.

[enkeivette]

Not only can you fire them, you can sue them personally, and you can charge them with crimes. It's a wonder the DA didn't charge him with murder.

Cops only have the same rights to kill that you do, self-defense and defense of others. If someone tries to kill or rape your gf, you have a complete defense if you need to kill them to stop them.

[enkeivette]

This cop was fired btw.

[Small White Car]

How much time did he get?