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Old 06-13-2010, 01:12 PM   #71
94cobra69ss39694cobra69ss396 is offline
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Originally Posted by SeanPlunk View Post
Glamis is public property. He has every right to cite him. If your friend wants to buy a piece of property and pee on every square inch he has every right. Now, if he's in the front yard of his property exposing his penis to kids walking by on the sidewalk, then we have a problem again.
So what you're saying Sean is that when I'm out 4 wheeling with my family in the middle of the desert or mountains that I should be sited for indecent exposure if I have to pee? How would you have felt if one of us were sited when we went on the Motorgen offroad trip a couple years ago just because a ranger drove up as someone was peeing? I can understand having the law so that someone doesn't expose themselves in the middle of a public place but not out in the middle of nowhere where there are no restrooms. The ranger who sited Adam's friend was just being a jerk and there are many of them out there.
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Old 06-13-2010, 02:09 PM   #72
VettezukiVettezuki is offline
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Originally Posted by SeanPlunk View Post
. . I've been to jury duty 6 times in the last 10 years. While it is a pain in the ass, it's necessary for our legal system. What's your better idea? Do you want to have professional jurors paid for by your tax dollars? Of course not, then you'd just be complaining about that. So how would you actually address this?
It isn't necessarry. We could have a professional jury system or a panel of judges system. It was a PITA because they called Reiko, the owner and operator of a small business whose presence is required at all times still. They didn't care. We'll have to close (because we only make money when we actually do something, apparently a unique concept to some.) We'll lose money and so will our employees. God help us if she gets put on a jury. That's why.


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This one is stupid and will change during the next state election. Besides, my friend who is a cop told me they won't arrest you for it unless you have a large amount. Do you advocate all drugs should be legal?
Yes. So do an increasing number of former drug enforcement. Having the laws hasn't stopped the problems anymore than making alcohol illegal did. It has enabled powerful cartels in South America though.



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You can open carry. Go ahead and do it. Why does it need to be concealed? If I saw you with a gun hanging out I'd for sure know not to mess with you.

Has to be unloaded. YOu yourself said "what's the point". Remember.



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I honestly have no idea on this one. I'll have to research to see why it is. Again, another thing that DOES NOT affect you daily. The FDA is necessary because it turns out you can't just give drugs to people without testing the effects first. If you want to go to the other country to have the treatment you have the right to do so.
The *rule* exists because whole milk has living agents, that if improperly handled can be dangerous. Apparently the Europeans are able to manage.As for being terminally ill, WTF does the government care if someone wants to try something. For the love of Christ, seriously? One more reason to become rich I guess. Many rules do effectively change at that point.



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The Postal Services loses money. It's a problem. I'll grant you this one.
The problem is that it's a government granted monopoly for a service. There should be no such thing.


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Nobody got the kit approved because it's a pain in the ass on the Camaro. You had to lower the K-member to get it to work. You have other options.
So California won't approve a kit on the grounds a K member has to moved? Brilliant.


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Not being able to accept euros must be a real burden in your life? How about get the dollars and then go to a currency exchange place and change them if you want. Perfectly legal.
I can't take foreign currency for payment of service. That's the law. More importantly I wouldn't mind taking silver for direct payment. I can't. These rules did not used to exist and many monies were used in North America. The law (legal tender) were created so the government has greater control over the use and value of money. Because, if they didn't have a monopoly on money, people would flee from their currency when their monetary policy was poor. It'd be an excellent hedge against bad monetary policy. It is in principle, the same reason we keep the Forex markets (a value hedge) and the reason some are particularly pushing for a single global currency, a completely free hand on money supply.


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I've seen hundreds of people fall behind on property taxes during my time at the credit union. Not once has the government taken their property. It almost always ends up with a tax lien against the property, but the person is still living their.
It's the law. It can and does happen. A lot, perhaps not. That it can happen at all is wrong.


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Eminent Domain is tough. I often times don't necessarily agree with it. Let me know when if affects you though.
The idea is to fight bloody murder long BEFORE anything gets to you. Duh.

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Overall you have produced a very limited list. Besides taxes the worst things you can say about the government are:

-they could draft you (even though they haven't and most likely never will)
Shouldn't exist.

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-you have to go to jury duty maybe once a year
Shouldn't exist.

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-you can't carry a concealed weapon (but can open carry)
Fairly pointless as you yourself have noted.

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-you can't buy pot (even though obtaining a card is easy and then you could)
Getting better!

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-the damn FDA won't let you take untested drugs
Serious. Stop protecting me from myself. Who are you, my mother?

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-the postal service occasionally botches something
It's a federal grant of monopoly power. Shouldn't exist.

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-you could only put on a tt kit or centrifugal blower, but not a roots
Not a big deal, but think about why there is a block.

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-they could take your property if you don't pay property taxes (but would probably just lien you)
*Probably* is really reassuring to those in those positions.

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-Eminent Domain could take your property someday, which again will 99.9% probably never happen
Shouldn't exist, or MASSIVELY limited. It's regularly abused.

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Oh, and you can't buy whole cheese.
You think it's funny, but it's related to a government that thinks it's a parent. That's not funny.

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These really don't seem like that big of a deal I have to say. It also seems things that do affect you on a daily basis like having paved roads, clean air, water, etc are a much bigger positives than not being able to buy whole cheese. The government is NOT that bad and really this just proves to me that it really doesn't impede you much.
As for how I actually live my life, they're mostly a nuisance, not a profound block. My biggest complaints against government are economic. They're fu*king that up bad. If they do it bad enough, it'll effect us all quite a lot.
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Old 06-13-2010, 02:15 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by enkeivette View Post
And I wasn't joking, did Sean think I was? I'm sort of lost at this point.
Yes he did. I knew you weren't. I enjoyed that part.
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:02 PM   #74
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We do have a panel of judges system sort of, if a judge believes no reasonable jury could conclude otherwise, he can take the case from them.

But I like the jury system, it's supposed to represent a random unbiased opinion of society. If we had professional jurors they would get used to the job, and form prejudices.

Juries decide facts, not law in case anyone was wondering.
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:13 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by enkeivette View Post
We do have a panel of judges system sort of, if a judge believes no reasonable jury could conclude otherwise, he can take the case from them.

But I like the jury system, it's supposed to represent a random unbiased opinion of society. If we had professional jurors they would get used to the job, and form prejudices.

Juries decide facts, not law in case anyone was wondering.
I wouldn't object if it were voluntary jury service. I've heard many people say they'd be curious to serve on a jury and see the system in action. Great. Put your name in a pool. Or possibly required as a function of receiving government benefits, like unemployment or something like that. That they snatch people out of productive lives against there will is nothing short of slavery. Period. How something can be immoral for one to do, but become moral for a group or government is beyond me.

You're worried they may form prejudices. They've already got those and I don't think we need to go into too much detail about that do we? On the other hand, they would form expertise and wouldn't have to have a million things explained to them on every case. It would, whether you agree with it or not., be a substantial increase in efficiency, something the court system could use.
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:21 PM   #76
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Basically I see a bunch of scarecrow arguments.

Ben, please show me:

-A developed country with no taxes (or even substantially lower than us).
-A developed country with no gun laws.
-A developed country without significant limitations on food and drugs.
-A developed country without it's own currency.

You won't be able to. The reason is that modern society dictates these things are necessary. The way you think it should be is simply not possible. You're taking human nature out of the equation and that's why you're wrong. The system you advocate can simply not exist for a large populous regardless of what you say.
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:23 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by 94cobra69ss396 View Post
So what you're saying Sean is that when I'm out 4 wheeling with my family in the middle of the desert or mountains that I should be sited for indecent exposure if I have to pee? How would you have felt if one of us were sited when we went on the Motorgen offroad trip a couple years ago just because a ranger drove up as someone was peeing? I can understand having the law so that someone doesn't expose themselves in the middle of a public place but not out in the middle of nowhere where there are no restrooms. The ranger who sited Adam's friend was just being a jerk and there are many of them out there.
No, I misread it. Indecent exposure in that case is insane. I thought it was for urinating in public.
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:35 PM   #78
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A few quick other points:

-If you think the FDA is unnecessary and drug makers should be able to sell whatever they want as long as people will take it, you're crazy. That might be their choice, but that's one of the most irresponsible things I've ever heard you advocate.
-You could make a CARB legal kit for the Camaro I'm sure. Nobody has done it because it's difficult. Why don't you make one and put it through? Nobody is stopping you just because it hasn't been done.

Seriously, if things were run the way you want them to be, the country would be a screwed place. I can only imagine what kind of food we would have with no regulation.
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:38 PM   #79
enkeivetteenkeivette is offline
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Originally Posted by Vettezuki View Post
I wouldn't object if it were voluntary jury service. I've heard many people say they'd be curious to serve on a jury and see the system in action. Great. Put your name in a pool. Or possibly required as a function of receiving government benefits, like unemployment or something like that. That they snatch people out of productive lives against there will is nothing short of slavery. Period. How something can be immoral for one to do, but become moral for a group or government is beyond me.

You're worried they may form prejudices. They've already got those and I don't think we need to go into too much detail about that do we? On the other hand, they would form expertise and wouldn't have to have a million things explained to them on every case. It would, whether you agree with it or not., be a substantial increase in efficiency, something the court system could use.
Since jurors decide fact, not law, you don't need to explain anything to them. And yes, everyone is biased in some way, but having random different biases is what makes it fair. Also, if juries were only voluntary then it's no longer random and representative of society. Because only certain kinds of people will opt to volunteer.
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:40 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by SeanPlunk View Post
No, I misread it. Indecent exposure in that case is insane. I thought it was for urinating in public.
That is urinating in public. How is it different from being on the beach at 2am? I've run into more people offroading in the desert than I have walking down the beach at 2 am.
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