[BADDASSC6]

Alright peace. I will not slam your car again for the sake of open communication.

I know your car well. I know intake manifolds well. So your flat four has two heads, one on each side. The car really has one common intake location the Throttle valve.

What connects the two? The intake manifold. The different parts of the manifold are the intake runners, the plenum, and various connectors (i.e. vacuum hoses, idle bypass valves, fuel injector bungs etc...).

The larger the intake plenum the better the manifold performs on the top end. The smaller the plenum the better for low end. This is due to the pressure pulses and drops causes the the valve opening and closing events and how it is dissipated or not. I could get more specific, but I don't want to write that much. This is why 96-2001 Mustang Cobras had the valve in the intake manifold runners that shut in the low end to build low end torque.

Intake runners are the long tubes or short tubes that run from the plenum to the cylinder head. Longer tubes help generate higher air velocity which helps with cylinder filling and thus builds low end torque. Shorter tubes will minimize the distance that needs to be traveled and thus increase the maximum amount of air that can be pushed through which helps build top end power by not restricting flow.

WRXs and STIs have small plenums and long runners. Some of the characteristics are masked by the turbos.

Intake restrictors will allow a certain amount of flow when they hit their limit that's it regardless of RPM. That's why they limit power so well. A motor is a positive displacement pump that is moving a constant amount of fluid per revolution. So you have a limiter the restricts fluid flow per unit time and a pump that moves a set amount per revolution. As the revolutions per minute increase you go from the restrictors not playing much of a role to the restrictor becoming the major forcing function.

So that 300 hp 2.0L (not 2.5 for the real ralley cars) that makes 500ftlbs. is really capable of making 600+hp without the restrictor. I will concede that the cams and turbos have been optimized to spool quickly.

[Vettezuki]

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by WagonSleeps

. . . Some people do tgv deletes when they go to a larger turbo setup. As to rally cars, they do not restrict these area im sure.

Yes.They.Do.

Specifically the turbo inlet.

In case you missed it the first time.

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

. . . .

In principle the FIA mandates restrictors to force the technical "problem" that you are having.

See here for a concise overview:
http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/turbo_restrictors.html

To each rally car, has its own characteristics. dont assume these cars are the same as all other rally cars.

Correct. They are called groups. Here are the current FIA Sporting Regs.

http://www.fia.com/sport/Regulations/rallyregs.html


HISTORY
You've got to understand something. While our street cars are better and faster than ever, the world of Motorsport has been relatively tamed down from past eras. With the exception of some drag racing, the world of auto racing is no where near peak power or top speeds.

NASCAR was screaming past 200mph in the 60s before serious restrictions came in to slow them down.

Open cockpit Porsches were doing 240+!! at Le Mans in the 70s.

1.5L Turbo F1 motors were making 1,500HP in the 80s.

Group B Rally Cars from 80s. Well OVER 500HP. You NEED to watch this.

What do they all have in common? Death. Lots of it. Hence the safety rules from various governing bodies. Hence restrictions manifest in such things as restrictors. And that's about it.


DUMB PART
Here's the dumb part of this thread.

No Motorgen user thinks that a specific make model is better than every other make model just because. It's kind of the basic idea of this site. I own a Corvette and so does BA, but for fairly different reasons and purposes. I also own a truck, jeep, daily driver hatchback and motorcycle which is different than any car. They serve very different purposes according to their design. I'm sure my Vette will flat walk away from you at a roll, beat you soundly in the 1/4 and do just fine through canyon roads. So what? It's not a terribly practical car and certainly can't go off road. The MG project car is an RX-7 with Blown Small Block Ford. I've got a serious itch in my pants to do a Silvia Swap on a 240Z. BA built an E85 Turbo Spec racer as part of his engineering program and has considered an Evo for road racing.

MY POINT
Don't think that you have a couple domestic Corvette nut swingers ganging up on you just because you drive an import. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are, in our own caustic way, having some fun and attempting to communicate some knowledge about engine dynamics (which are true regardless of make/model) that may help you build something that is more of what you want. That's THE point.

[WagonSleeps]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

Yes.They.Do.

Specifically the turbo inlet.

In case you missed it the first time.





Correct. They are called groups. Here are the current FIA Sporting Regs.

http://www.fia.com/sport/Regulations/rallyregs.html


HISTORY
You've got to understand something. While our street cars are better and faster than ever, the world of Motorsport has been relatively tamed down from past eras. With the exception of some drag racing, the world of auto racing is no where near peak power or top speeds.

NASCAR was screaming past 200mph in the 60s before serious restrictions came in to slow them down.

Open cockpit Porsches were doing 240+!! at Le Mans in the 70s.

1.5L Turbo F1 motors were making 1,500HP in the 80s.

Group B Rally Cars from 80s. Well OVER 500HP. You NEED to watch this.

What do they all have in common? Death. Lots of it. Hence the safety rules from various governing bodies. Hence restrictions manifest in such things as restrictors. And that's about it.


DUMB PART
Here's the dumb part of this thread.

No Motorgen user thinks that a specific make model is better than every other make model just because. It's kind of the basic idea of this site. I own a Corvette and so does BA, but for fairly different reasons and purposes. I also own a truck, jeep, daily driver hatchback and motorcycle which is different than any car. They serve very different purposes according to their design. I'm sure my Vette will flat walk away from you at a roll, beat you soundly in the 1/4 and do just fine through canyon roads. So what? It's not a terribly practical car and certainly can't go off road. The MG project car is an RX-7 with Blown Small Block Ford. I've got a serious itch in my pants to do a Silvia Swap on a 240Z. BA built an E85 Turbo Spec racer as part of his engineering program and has considered an Evo for road racing.

MY POINT
Don't think that you have a couple domestic Corvette nut swingers ganging up on you just because you drive an import. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are, in our own caustic way, having some fun and attempting to communicate some knowledge about engine dynamics (which are true regardless of make/model) that may help you build something that is more of what you want. That's THE point.

as to what i can see, you guys arent trying to prove a point or anything. Only thing i see is you plainly talking shit in a polite manner. Like i said this THREAD IS For discussion, yet you still have to ramp on about how you will spank me, soundly beat me in the 1/4 mile?? WTF.......


Cool guy, how about you stop rambling about how your vett will spank me walk on me from a roll etc etc.. your saying this to a STOCK STi Turbo wagon........hahahahah holy cow. I Post a Dyno chart of my retune and all i get is this, im sure this is why i see the same 4-5 people posting and thats it......

vett and badassc6 there you go....youll own me in anyway possible.


Tell me when the next drag event is, im sure this guy named Steve with GT30r in a STi, 492whp will gladly come with me and open up a new asshole for you. Was that mature to say in a discussion like this???? NO. I never called you guys out or had said anything negative about your cars or saying you are slow until now. If you saying your car will spank me impress yourself? Good for you, hope that made you feel better about yourself and how cocky you are.


here you go buddy

you saying let me put on my Dr's is like me saying ohhh let me go put in my race gas and LC and FFS.......

bring your car as is, daily driven tires, and LETS DO A DIG. see how well you can launch all that power and some..

A ROLL is a ROLL, but can you DIG it??? harr harr harr..

[SeanPlunk]

Originally Posted by WagonSleeps

as to what i can see, you guys arent trying to prove a point or anything. Only thing i see is you plainly talking shit in a polite manner. Like i said this THREAD IS For discussion, yet you still have to ramp on about how you will spank me, soundly beat me in the 1/4 mile?? WTF.......


Cool guy, how about you stop rambling about how your vett will spank me walk on me from a roll etc etc.. your saying this to a STOCK STi Turbo wagon........hahahahah holy cow




Tell me when the next drag event is, im sure this guy named Steve with GT30r in a STi, 492whp will gladly come with me and open up a new asshole for you. Was that mature to say in a discussion like this???? NO. I never called you guys out or had said anything negative about your cars or saying you are slow until now. If you saying your car will spank me impress yourself? Good for you my buddy.


here you go buddy

There are lots of cars that would spank mine, but it doesn't mean I like them better. The Cobra handles marginally at best and is big and heavy - but I love my car. I thought about buying a C5 Z06 at the time (which stock for stock is faster than a Cobra through the quarter and easily quicker around a track) but I like the Cobra better. I like having a backseat, and I like the way they look better.

Comparing cars like this just gets silly. Corvettes are more expensive than the WRX and also not nearly as practical. I think the WRX Wagon is an awesome sleeper, I'd have a lot of fun in it

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by WagonSleeps

as to what i can see, you guys arent trying to prove a point or anything. Only thing i see is you plainly talking shit in a polite manner. Like i said this THREAD IS For discussion, yet you still have to ramp on about how you will spank me, soundly beat me in the 1/4 mile?? WTF.......


Cool guy, how about you stop rambling about how your vett will spank me walk on me from a roll etc etc.. your saying this to a STOCK STi Turbo wagon........hahahahah holy cow. I Post a Dyno chart of my retune and all i get is this, im sure this is why i see the same 4-5 people posting and thats it......

vett and badassc6 there you go....youll own me in anyway possible.


Tell me when the next drag event is, im sure this guy named Steve with GT30r in a STi, 492whp will gladly come with me and open up a new asshole for you. Was that mature to say in a discussion like this???? NO. I never called you guys out or had said anything negative about your cars or saying you are slow until now. If you saying your car will spank me impress yourself? Good for you, hope that made you feel better about yourself and how cocky you are.


here you go buddy

you saying let me put on my Dr's is like me saying ohhh let me go put in my race gas and LC and FFS.......

bring your car as is, daily driven tires, and LETS DO A DIG. see how well you can launch all that power and some..

A ROLL is a ROLL, but can you DIG it??? harr harr harr..

You have a very selective way of reading. Apparently you missed the "So what?" part. It precisely dose NOT matter that I could or could not beat you, they are completely different cars with different designs for different purposes. That is my point. It does not matter. Do you have what you want? That matters.

Let me reverse the order and make the same point. Your friend's built STi could probably thrash my Vette in every measurable way. How much do I care? Zero. Because the Vette's purpose in my life is not to beat built STis, or anything else for that matter (other than Sean.) It performs at a level and in a way I enjoy. I will continue to focus on and improve aspects over time with the help of people here who have knowledge I don't, or simply bring up an idea I didn't think of. A guy who is way into Turbo 4-cyl cars, but who knows the physics of chassis design, engine building, transmissions, or has knowledge about fabrication can provide a lot of useful information to me regardless of what he chooses to drive. Am I making myself clear?

Just trying to talk shit politely? Nonsense. You now have pages of technical information constituting a discussion on the specifics of the subject (that is an engine making power) that you posted about. Remember I first posted regarding the specifics of the torque curve in your dyno sheet, which looked a little peculiar to me the way it falls off. I was just trying to identify specifically what causes that and how it could be addressed . . . if you wanted to.

While you accuse BA and me of just riding your ass (partially true) and not discussing anything (completely false) you have made statements about Rally cars and restrictions that are absolutely false.

Are you interested in building your knowledge or did you just want some acknowledgment for your accomplishment? If it's the latter then my apologies for wasting your time.

[WagonSleeps]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

You have a very selective way of reading. Apparently you missed the "So what?" part. It precisely dose NOT matter that I could or could not beat you, they are completely different cars with different designs for different purposes. That is my point. It does not matter. Do you have what you want? That matters.

Let me reverse the order and make the same point. Your friend's built STi could probably thrash my Vette in every measurable way. How much do I care? Zero. Because the Vette's purpose in my life is not to beat built STis, or anything else for that matter (other than Sean.) It performs at a level and in a way I enjoy. I will continue to focus on and improve aspects over time with the help of people here who have knowledge I don't, or simply bring up an idea I didn't think of. A guy who is way into Turbo 4-cyl cars, but who knows the physics of chassis design, engine building, transmissions, or has knowledge about fabrication can provide a lot of useful information to me regardless of what he chooses to drive. Am I making myself clear?

Just trying to talk shit politely? Nonsense. You now have pages of technical information constituting a discussion on the specifics of the subject (that is an engine making power) that you posted about. Remember I first posted regarding the specifics of the torque curve in your dyno sheet, which looked a little peculiar to me the way it falls off. I was just trying to identify specifically what causes that and how it could be addressed . . . if you wanted to.

While you accuse BA and me of just riding your ass (partially true) and not discussing anything (completely false) you have made statements about Rally cars and restrictions that are absolutely false.

Are you interested in building your knowledge or did you just want some acknowledgment for your accomplishment? If it's the latter then my apologies for wasting your time.

Building my knowledge and some acknowledgment is practically whats expected in a forum discussion. Like i said, i am open to opinions without flaming and talking straight shit. I know this vf43 is a dinky turbo and i DONT know why that would be a reason for my car being SHIT???. i know my car lacks air flow and is restricted in certain areas, i know that my car is nowhere near comparable to a vett or any other high hp cars. But like Sean stated above, each person has their likings and nobody will ever come to a conclusion saying in each persons Opinion in what car is shit or not.



Vette i know we started getting into the torque curve discussion, did i not reply back with the info you needed to figure out why our cars have torque curves we do??? The questions you have discussed were partially answered from my tuner and gave you more of a understanding.

Then, we had gotten into this transmission discussion and all of a sudden you have a person, who really, really didnt know jack shit about usdm or jdm or 5 speeds or 6 speeds that subarus are equipped with. So how in the hell would they come to a conclusion or statement saying that our cars that claim being fast off the line and have good low end power without our trannys breaking down an opinion and not a fact??? Nearly bulletproof the 6 speed is a fact. Roadrace cars with 600+whp and tq still use sti 6 speeds. I never said BULLETPROOF, GO AHEAD TAKE A CRACK AT IT!

I never said 1 thing about anyones cars, but i shouldve assumed there would be some randoms who post on here with off the subject statements and facts that have nothing to do with MY car.

From reviewing this whole thread, questions were not even asked about my car to simply have some more knowledge. More just to post on this thread and say some smart ass remark as well as people starting to stay on the subject, but get so damn cocky, they start to get sidetracked and try to prove a point...


I will admit being false in the "Rally" discussion and my knowledge about these restrictors were not of a understanding to me fully.

If my wagon with the power it has, as well as being able to drive a/s tires without much tractions loss, going up in the snow without any chains/tires etc. being able to fit 3-4 snowboards and carry 3 people without racks? being able to drive in the rain without worrys of traction loss is weak and something you have no interest in. then keep it to yourself.

If you wanna talk about my future mods and things that could of help me out instead of calling my car SHIT with a quick conclusion, im more happy to discuss and vent about this.

My car was purposely bought for my recreational life and purposes. Like i really bought my wagon to build up power and come run my mouth??? F*** NO.

Shouldve titled the THREAD, NO FLAMERS

the 492whp STi is running on Stock internals, Stock clutch. C16 race gas 28psi......

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by WagonSleeps

. . . Vette i know we started getting into the torque curve discussion, did i not reply back with the info you needed to figure out why our cars have torque curves we do??? The questions you have discussed were partially answered from my tuner and gave you more of a understanding.

Correct and MassAppeal and BA added some details about heads and intake runners. So I have a pretty good idea of why it has the curve it does. And what, if I had the car and was interested in efficiently increasing power, what I'd do about it. Directly relevant to the post and inquiry.

From reviewing this whole thread, questions were not even asked about my car to simply have some more knowledge. More just to post on this thread and say some smart ass remark as well as people starting to stay on the subject, but get so damn cocky, they start to get sidetracked and try to prove a point...

I will not argue about perceptions. But I have a different one.

I will admit being false in the "Rally" discussion and my knowledge about these restrictors were not of a understanding to me fully.

Fair enough . . . but you were pretty cocky about it.

If my wagon with the power it has, as well as being able to drive a/s tires without much tractions loss, going up in the snow without any chains/tires etc. being able to fit 3-4 snowboards and carry 3 people without racks? being able to drive in the rain without worrys of traction loss is weak and something you have no interest in. then keep it to yourself.

EXACTLY. I have a hatchback and I love it. When its time comes, a Legacy STi is specifically high on my list to replace it for these precise reasons.

If you wanna talk about my future mods and things that could of help me out . . .

Indeed I have asked this exact question.

Shouldve titled the THREAD, NO FLAMERS

What about Sean?

[Vettezuki]

Clarification on trans.

Talked my colleague at work. He had an 02 WRX with various mods taking the stock turbo up to about 17.5psi. Estimated HP (based on ETs and weight) 350-375 BHP. He had a Palmdale adjusted speed of 12.7@104.

He had a car assembled in Japan, not TN. (Apparently a JDM 5 speed trans.) He says he beat the ever living hell out of that trans for a long time. Then it chipped a tooth in first gear. He then regretfully had it replaced with a USDM unit. It shredded 2nd gear at 1,000 miles. He replaced it again and it shredded 3rd gear at 1,000 miles. That was the end of the Subie for him. So apparently there is a difference between JDM and USDM 5 speeds. Probably all the STi 6 speeds are the same.

[BADDASSC6]

Wagonsleeps. I said peace in my last post. So lets drop the "open a new ".

Also, I will be at Buttonwillow at the end of June with NASA proracing. I would love to run your buddy. I will point out that "my buddies car" is even lamer than bench racing. But his car makes pretty much what my car makes so lets do something. I would love to talk about my friends cars, but I already smoked that 500+ hp 2003 Porsche Turbo). So I will continue to refernce my own car. I will try to be at the June 13th motorgen cruise too.

So if you read nothing else read this:

You are leaving a lot of power on the table in your intake. I felt like I wasted my time typing my previous post.

Finally, I am sorry I said your car is shit (mark this day on your calendars I have apoligized for making fun of someone's car). My college roomate had a 2 door impreza that I loved. That car left a long time ago and was replaced with an STI. I actually like them (EVOs are better)