[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by Shaolin Crane

It would be cool to read in original japanese but i'm still in the hiraghana katakana stages. Its also been a few years since I even glanced at my school books for it.

I'll be going for JLPT level N2 next summer, which will probably be enough to read a memoir (though I'll constantly be looking up slang and idioms I'm sure). The gap between English and Japanese is fucking epic. The hardest part is the thinking. They really see and think about the world very differently and if you insist on seeing things through a Western lens you'll have at best a crude understanding, and possibly be very wrong. I'm married to a Japanese (from outside Tokyo),work for a large Japanese firm, conducting meetings in Japanese in my functional high-intermediate Japanese, and have studied a lot of their history and culture. It's.Not.Easy. But I love them dearly. In particular I'm happy to work for a Japanese firm in the position I do. I love my colleagues. I mean love very much in the sense of brothers at arms. Most Americans have no idea of what this is like at a company. High on the list is responsibility, and amazingly, a higher level manager/supervisor will take the blame for a mistake of a lower level employee. I've experienced this first hand with a fairly expensive fuck up. It's not all peaches and sunshine, but I love it.

[Shaolin Crane]

Some of my dearest friends are Japanese and it's they have a code of ethics and honor I much prefer over American thinking. I was raised in the arts which is the flip side to what you're talking about, but not really. Being that the reason they are the way they are is based on the thousands of years of martial heritage. I too love it and I am glad i have experienced what I have thus far. I look back and wish I took that month long trip to japan with my buddy instead of buying a shit load of car parts.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by Shaolin Crane

Some of my dearest friends are Japanese and it's they have a code of ethics and honor I much prefer over American thinking. I was raised in the arts which is the flip side to what you're talking about, but not really. Being that the reason they are the way they are is based on the thousands of years of martial heritage. I too love it and I am glad i have experienced what I have thus far. I look back and wish I took that month long trip to japan with my buddy instead of buying a shit load of car parts.

Especially at one point, the Japanese "salary man" very much considered himself a part of the Samurai tradition. The Book of Five Rings was standard.

I have one colleague who compares the great aspects of America and Japan as something like cowboy/pioneer for America and Samurai for Japan. I tend to agree.

[Vettezuki]

It is absolutely on my bucket list to walk the great walking roads of Japan, which are still there. Sort of like the Appalachian trail for Japan.

[Shaolin Crane]

My bucket list is to walk the grounds of Matsumoto castle and train with my sword in the Aoki forest. Twho of Japans old and richest portions directly linked with hundreds if not thousands of battles. And even visit the Sekigahara battle field, it's amazing to think that samurai fought for days in the largest battle of japan knowing if they won they would certainly all be eliminated as a common everyday entity. Yet the battle and the order was all they needed to perform their duties to the fullest as if nothing were changing.

[Shaolin Crane]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

Especially at one point, the Japanese "salary man" very much considered himself a part of the Samurai tradition. The Book of Five Rings was standard.

I have one colleague who compares the great aspects of America and Japan as something like cowboy/pioneer for America and Samurai for Japan. I tend to agree.

I'd love to be able to read The book of Five rings in original japanese. I've read it a few times by a few different translators and the book is always different.

However I dont see cowboys being on even the same plane as samurai, completely different ideals of honor, dedication, hardwork and trust.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by Shaolin Crane

I'd love to be able to read The book of Five rings in original japanese. I've read it a few times by a few different translators and the book is always different.

However I dont see cowboys being on even the same plane as samurai, completely different ideals of honor, dedication, hardwork and trust.

You can pretty much forget reading it in its original Japanese because not only is it Japanese, it's 17th century Japanese. It would take decades of intense study and living there, working with scholars, etc., to get really really close to what he was on about. But some of the basic ideas still come through in roughly in modern English.


Re: Cowboys, in no way was it even vaguely intended that Cowboys = Samurai, but that America has an inventive, individualist, frontier personality and the core Japanese spirit is very much a matter of belonging to a group. Something like balanced opposites. To make it more concrete, as an American part of the value I bring to the firm is a fairly aggressive individualistic push into new ideas, the value they bring is a batshit crazy attention to detail and fierce sticktuitiveness. Combine them so the weaknesses wash out and you really start to get something amazingly powerful .

As for Samurai. The Last Samurai, as far as mass consumption goes, really isn't such a bad presnetation of some ideas. (Obviously romanticized.) It's one of the few movies I went to see with my wife (not really movie goers) and she was teared up at some points. I can say this for absolute certain. Sometime the Japanese are considered as cold hearted and merciless. This is completely wrong. They're unbelievably passionate people, but it's highly internalized.

What I admire about the Samurai, at their very best (plenty of ugly shit), was an amazing depth or appreciation for each moment of life. In the warring era (pre-Edo) they very much lived with the expectation of dying in combat. Male children were carrying mockup swords from 2 years old and were nuckin futs baddasses by the time they were 14. The only thing comparable that I can really think of were the Spartans. However, unlike the Japanese who in a very peculiar way prized indiviuality and spirit, the Spartans strove to become a machine of sorts. Anyway, I can go on and on.

A little syrupy. Reality is almost always a bit harsh, but this idea of we're all dying and the idea is to know life at 100% before dying really was a Samurai goal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQooui1eRhw

[Shaolin Crane]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

You can pretty much forget reading it in its original Japanese because not only is it Japanese, it's 17th century Japanese. It would take decades of intense study and living there, working with scholars, etc., to get really really close to what he was on about. But some of the basic ideas still come through in roughly in modern English.


Re: Cowboys, in no way was it even vaguely intended that Cowboys = Samurai, but that America has an inventive, individualist, frontier personality and the core Japanese spirit is very much a matter of belonging to a group. Something like balanced opposites. To make it more concrete, as an American part of the value I bring to the firm is a fairly aggressive individualistic push into new ideas, the value they bring is a batshit crazy attention to detail and fierce sticktuitiveness. Combine them so the weaknesses wash out and you really start to get something amazingly powerful .

As for Samurai. The Last Samurai, as far as mass consumption goes, really isn't such a bad presnetation of some ideas. (Obviously romanticized.) It's one of the few movies I went to see with my wife (not really movie goers) and she was teared up at some points. I can say this for absolute certain. Sometime the Japanese are considered as cold hearted and merciless. This is completely wrong. They're unbelievably passionate people, but it's highly internalized.

What I admire about the Samurai, at their very best (plenty of ugly shit), was an amazing depth or appreciation for each moment of life. In the warring era (pre-Edo) they very much lived with the expectation of dying in combat. Male children were carrying mockup swords from 2 years old and were nuckin futs baddasses by the time they were 14. The only thing comparable that I can really think of were the Spartans. However, unlike the Japanese who in a very peculiar way prized indiviuality and spirit, the Spartans strove to become a machine of sorts. Anyway, I can go on and on.

A little syrupy. Reality is almost always a bit harsh, but this idea of we're all dying and the idea is to know life at 100% before dying really was a Samurai goal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQooui1eRhw

I know, some day i'd like to be at the level where I can appreciate something like that without needing 100 different explanations from different people.

It's funny you brought up the last samurai. When I saw the previews I vowed not to waste my time and that Tom Cruise should find better things to do, after finally giving in I was amazed at how well they hit the nail on the head.

A more modern concept but an older movie is Mr. Baseball.

Samurai and all Japanese have this attention to detail and diligence for that very reasoning of enjoying life. There's no reason that if you're spending time on something or with someone or experiencing something that you should give any less then 100% effort. And it's very true. If you're already in it, why half ass it? Do it right, take pride in the outcome and move on. What's more amazing is all that very same effort is done whether someone is expecting it or not and they would never begin to think of accepting a reward for a job well done because ALL jobs should be done that way. And most importantly their word. If something was said, it was carried out, not promise needed, no need for someone to ask a second time and a loyalty that went as deep as following any command to a "t" for trust that it's for their best.

I like to try and mirror this in my life and I definitely do with my Sensei's. I'm very grateful that I have had the opportunity to know and train under Toshishiro Obata. I get to experience first hand the life of a samurai without having to shit in the woods.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by fiveohwblow

OMG FAPPING!!!!

Classy. Well, how's this then?

Freud would have a field day psychoanalyzing this picture!

[fiveohwblow]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

Classy. Well, how's this then?

Freud would have a field day psychoanalyzing this picture!

How's faptastic? Classier?