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Old 02-25-2010, 07:49 PM   #11
VettezukiVettezuki is offline
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Your bold text says race cars and sports cars. Further, I don't see the difference. Still siding with Chrysler and GM on this one, sorry.
Of course there cars work just fine. But if you give a pencil and blank piece of paper to a race car (hyper sports car) designer and say, make this handle as well you can on a course without restrictions, you're going to get a rearward bias NOT a 50/50 bias. Fin.
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:04 PM   #12
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Front engine Ferraris also have the engine behind the front axle. This not only shifts weight to the rear but reduces the polar moment of inertia allowing the car to respond to steering inputs better. If you do any driving in a Porsche or a Corvair, it can be difficult to get the car to turn especially when you are accelerating and if the rear does come around too much, oversteer, it is difficult to get the rear end from swapping very quickly. Mid engine cars have both low polar moment and some rear bias to help with accelerating and stopping.

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Old 02-25-2010, 08:05 PM   #13
enkeivetteenkeivette is offline
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Originally Posted by Vettezuki View Post
Of course there cars work just fine. But if you give a pencil and blank piece of paper to a race car (hyper sports car) designer and say, make this handle as well you can on a course without restrictions, you're going to get a rearward bias NOT a 50/50 bias. Fin.
Fin? Going to try that in front of a judge someday. IMHO, if GM can put the motor up under the dash in a van, they can move the motor as far back as they want in the Vette. And they do have a blank piece of paper, they're GM.
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:29 PM   #14
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Fin? Going to try that in front of a judge someday. IMHO, if GM can put the motor up under the dash in a van, they can move the motor as far back as they want in the Vette. And they do have a blank piece of paper, they're GM.
I'll plead the 5th to a judge.

BTW, you may recall that ZAD, peace be eternally upon him, argued almost violently for a rear engined Vette back in the 60s. Just say'n. The marketing boys rightly or wrongly, insisted on sticking to the formula. Fiberglass. Front Engine. RWD. Two Seats.
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:39 PM   #15
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That Vette looked stupid. They tried to keep the hood longish and it just looked retarded. They also tried to put a rotary in it, doesn't mean it was a better engine than the piston engine.
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:43 PM   #16
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That Vette looked stupid. They tried to keep the hood longish and it just looked retarded. They also tried to put a rotary in it, doesn't mean it was a better engine than the piston engine.
You're thinking of the Aerovette. It was much earlier.
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:47 PM   #17
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Can't we all just get along?
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Old 02-25-2010, 10:04 PM   #18
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Can't we all just get along?
Nnnnnnnnno!
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Old 02-25-2010, 10:14 PM   #19
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Oh good times!!
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Old 02-25-2010, 11:36 PM   #20
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2010 Viper ACR: 49.5/50.5.
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Sorry guys, I believe the makers of these front engine rear drive supercars over yall when it comes down to what's best for a front engine rear drive car.

Seems simple enough to me, more weight in the front, more load on the tires, more understeer. More weight on the back, more load on the rear tires, more of a tendency to oversteer.

Equal weight distribution, neutral steer. Front engine rear drive cars always have slight oversteer. Putting more weight in the back would... make it worse.

Yes, Ferraris and Porsches have a rear weight bias, but they also have the engine and your fat ass back there. I'm surprised they don't have more of a rear bias.
"Sorry guys, I believe the makers of these front engine rear drive supercars over yall when it comes down to what's best for a front engine rear drive car."

Street cars, even spots cars, are full of compromises and may not be setup for absolute cornering performance in the name of stability and safety for their generally less than capable occupants. Compromise wise, front/rear weight balance is a trade off between passenger compartment space, car size, and available/designated engines. Safety wise, all street cars are built with a focus on under-steer because an under-steering car is safer and more controllable/recoverable than an over-steering car.

Sure you could jam the motor under a sports cars dash van style, but where are your legs going to go? how difficult is it going to be to service that motor? How are you going to deal with the added height needed for the clearance?

"Seems simple enough to me, more weight in the front, more load on the tires, more under-steer. More weight on the back, more load on the rear tires, more of a tendency to over-steer."

Obviously a cars over/under-steering tendencies are based on more than its CoG location. What the CoG's location dictates, and is harder to tune in with tires and suspension tuning, is its turn in behavior and how quickly it will rotate about tis center of gravity. This is mainly dictated by the cars weight and where that weight is carried relative to the the force used to rotate it (the deflection of the front tires)

"Yes, Ferraris and Porsches have a rear weight bias, but they also have the engine and your fat ass back there. I'm surprised they don't have more of a rear bias."

You have to consider the reason these 'money no object' sports cars are designed with the motor in the mid/rear. Its because of the ideal weight distribution for high performance handling and the easiest way (car design wise) to attain that distribution.

Porsche is kind of the oddity, they rear mount their motors just as much (possibly more) for nostalgic reasons as for performance.
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