[SeanPlunk]

Originally Posted by DJ Dep

Hope we can jump in soon...the level of bullcrap is getting higher than my hip boots.

Alright, go ahead. Thanks for giving me time. I think you guys could go back and forth forever, but what is clear is that the money is owed back.

[Durango_Boy]

Originally Posted by SeanPlunk

I read the whole thing now and while I understand what you're going through, unfortunately it is clear that you owe the money back. I'm not sure what your credit situation is, but perhaps you could get a credit card or small personal loan to return the funds? The whole thing sucks, I'll say that much. Somebody has to be responsible though and after reading over the facts I'd say that person is you. I'd definitely look into the loan option though just to get this resolved.

Oh I am very aware that I am responsible...never claimed the blame should fall on anyone but myself. I knew from when Mike confirmed the heads never arrived that I was going to be financially responsible. I have stayed in contact with Mike so he knows I taking responsibility.

Financially, lets just say that getting a loan is probably not going to happen. I'm doing what I can, as fast as I can, to put all this together for Mike.

[DJ Dep]

Originally Posted by SeanPlunk

Alright, go ahead. Thanks for giving me time. I think you guys could go back and forth forever, but what is clear is that the money is owed back.

Thank you sir

Let's do a little checking of the story:

"As soon as I damaged the set....

Problem #1 So we know that DB knows the responsibility rests on his shoulders. Why not call Mike IMMEDIATELY and offer a refund? That would be a quick/easy way to solve the problem. Mike might be a little pissed at not getting the heads, but at least people would be able to say DB is a stand-up guy...although maybe a bit clumsy. And Mike wouldn't still be out the $770. I already know what DB is going to say, though..."I wanted to please Mike and get him the heads he wanted". Well Mike sure ain't pleased and he's still out $770 AND has no heads.


...I was going to send Mike I got on the phone with that machine shop, and the owner who I have used before and considered a friend, and I told him I needed a set of the same heads, sent to a different address, and I was sending him money. His Paypal account was closed so I procured a money order from the Post Office and mailed it to the machine shop. He received the payment, and started on the heads."

Problem #2. When the machine shop cashed the money order, they immediately became responsible for supplying the heads. If DB still has the receipt for the money order, he can take the machine shop to small claims court and get a resolution rather quickly.

"The first big delay came from the machine shop not having enough valves to complete the set and they had to wait for more. I also had them machine the temp sender hole a bit bigger on one side so Mike could use his stock temp sender."

Problem #3. Is the machine shop in some kind of charity business? ANY additional machining is going to be added on to the bill. Is DB going to pay out of his pocket or is Mike going to get an additional charge or what????


"...I had originally told him I would machine a stock one down for him but decided to have the machine shop do it on their end while they were waiting for the valves.'

So the machine shop IS running a charity business. They do machining for free. Were they bored that day or were they afraid they were making too much money?

"Soon after, I couldn't get emails to or from them, and I only got the owner on the phone a few times."

Now I am wondering if you refused to pay for the machining for that temp sender and they are pissed at you?

"He did tell me the heads shipped and I had to get a hold of him later to ask for the tracking..."

And here we have a confirmation that the machine shop is aware of tracking numbers.


"when he told me there was no tracking and that his dock worker shipped them with nothing added to the basic shipping costs, which was about $40."

Problem 4. This is a biggie. Why was there no tracking numbers??? If the heads were shipped UPS or FedEX or even USPS, tracking numbers were automatic and free. Due to the weight and value and the way this item had to be shipped, USPS would have provided free tracking numbers. The value of the item and shipping costs doesn't affect getting tracking numbers anyway. If you need to buy a tracking number it is a flat fee of somewhere around $1.75.

"He told me he had no way to track or confirm. This also means that we don't know if they were lost, stolen, shipped to the wrong address, or just not shipped at all."

Problem 5 is DB BELIEVING this hogwash.

"Contact with the machine shop at this point is not possible, and completely my problem...just like the rest of it. I fully understand that Mike needs to be paid back but I can only go as fast as I can raise the money."


Why is contact no longer possible? And there have already been suggestions of selling your Vette to raise the money. Or at the very least, getting a title loan. So you can pay Mike and pay off the Vette title when you eventually get the money. It ain't brain surgery. Your excuse about having to buy the heater is ridiculous.

"To make this clear, despite all the accusations, I never intended to steal or scam Mike. I know he doesn't believe that and I would feel just like him if I were in his shoes. However I am in MY shoes, and it feels totally different on this end knowing what needs to be done but that I cannot JUST pay him back like it might be as easy. I don't have disposable income, to the point where I can just send Mike $770. I make no assumptions about HIS financial position, and maybe he's just as tapped, but my wallet is empty and I'm trying to gather the $770 as fast as I can."

Did Mike offer to pay you the $770 on a montly basis? Noooooo. So why should he be punished because you are clumsy and had a run of bad luck?
Get the frigging title loan, pay off Mike, and be done with the whole situation, and we can end this thread.

[Durango_Boy]

I DID contact Mike when I damaged the set and told him what happened. We almost canceled it all right there. But, I knew I could still get him the heads from the same guy for the same price and Mike would still get his good deal. He did approve the idea to have me send the money to the machine shop and have a new set sent to him directly.

Originally Posted by DJ Dep

Problem #2. When the machine shop cashed the money order, they immediately became responsible for supplying the heads. If DB still has the receipt for the money order, he can take the machine shop to small claims court and get a resolution rather quickly.

Very true, and I will hold them responsible as soon as I can, but that isn't Mike's problem, it's mine. I tossed the money order receipt when they received the money order, as I wasn't expecting any problems and the money order was received just fine.

Originally Posted by DJ Dep

Problem #3. Is the machine shop in some kind of charity business? ANY additional machining is going to be added on to the bill. Is DB going to pay out of his pocket or is Mike going to get an additional charge or what????

No, he did it because I was going to send him the money that Mike paid me to machine down a sender. He was going to have me send the money when his Paypal account was back up. This decision happened during the time that the valves were the delay, and he did the work because we were waiting. Remember, this is someone I was friendly with and he was trying to keep me happy.

Originally Posted by DJ Dep

"He did tell me the heads shipped and I had to get a hold of him later to ask for the tracking..."

And here we have a confirmation that the machine shop is aware of tracking numbers.

You read wrong, he didn't tell me to get a hold of him later for the tracking, I said that I had to contact him again to ask for tracking...which is when I found out there wasn't any.

Originally Posted by DJ Dep

Problem 4. This is a biggie. Why was there no tracking numbers??? If the heads were shipped UPS or FedEX or even USPS, tracking numbers were automatic and free. Due to the weight and value and the way this item had to be shipped, USPS would have provided free tracking numbers. The value of the item and shipping costs doesn't affect getting tracking numbers anyway. If you need to buy a tracking number it is a flat fee of somewhere around $1.75.

Look, I have shipped things USPS before where there was no tracking offered and none bought so I know it's possible to have an untracked and uninsured package out there. I know that they don't even ask you sometimes so I can see how someone else could misunderstand when you're used to automatic tracking through UPS.

Here's an angle that no one seems to consider. Mind you I am NOT, repeat, NOT, accusing Mike of doing anything of the sort, but no one has even asked or considered that maybe Mike DID receive the heads and they are hidden in his basement.

Without tracking or insurance, no one would be able to say if he did or not, and it's certainly possible if he knows he can cause a huge stink and he gets his money back.

I was assured they were sent...maybe they were, and maybe they were received.

Besides, the only problem is me trying to come up with the cash to pay back Mike. None of you guys are involved or have a say when Mike and I have communicated this. Is he happy? Nope. Would I be if I were in his shoes? Nope. Is there anything I can do about it now except pay him back? Nope. Am I doing that? Yep.

[Durango_Boy]

Originally Posted by SeanPlunk

Alright, go ahead. Thanks for giving me time. I think you guys could go back and forth forever, but what is clear is that the money is owed back.

Yep, and I have admitted that repeatedly.

Watch, they're still gonna continue.

[SeanPlunk]

Originally Posted by Durango_Boy

I DID contact Mike when I damaged the set and told him what happened. We almost canceled it all right there. But, I knew I could still get him the heads from the same guy for the same price and Mike would still get his good deal. He did approve the idea to have me send the money to the machine shop and have a new set sent to him directly.




Very true, and I will hold them responsible as soon as I can, but that isn't Mike's problem, it's mine. I tossed the money order receipt when they received the money order, as I wasn't expecting any problems and the money order was received just fine.





No, he did it because I was going to send him the money that Mike paid me to machine down a sender. He was going to have me send the money when his Paypal account was back up. This decision happened during the time that the valves were the delay, and he did the work because we were waiting. Remember, this is someone I was friendly with and he was trying to keep me happy.





You read wrong, he didn't tell me to get a hold of him later for the tracking, I said that I had to contact him again to ask for tracking...which is when I found out there wasn't any.





Look, I have shipped things USPS before where there was no tracking offered and none bought so I know it's possible to have an untracked and uninsured package out there. I know that they don't even ask you sometimes so I can see how someone else could misunderstand when you're used to automatic tracking through UPS.

Here's an angle that no one seems to consider. Mind you I am NOT, repeat, NOT, accusing Mike of doing anything of the sort, but no one has even asked or considered that maybe Mike DID receive the heads and they are hidden in his basement.

Without tracking or insurance, no one would be able to say if he did or not, and it's certainly possible if he knows he can cause a huge stink and he gets his money back.

I was assured they were sent...maybe they were, and maybe they were received.

Besides, the only problem is me trying to come up with the cash to pay back Mike. None of you guys are involved or have a say when Mike and I have communicated this. Is he happy? Nope. Would I be if I were in his shoes? Nope. Is there anything I can do about it now except pay him back? Nope. Am I doing that? Yep.

Where did you but the money order from? I work for a credit union and we can get copies of money orders going back pretty much forever. Maybe you could go back to where you got it and they could provide you a copy?

[Durango_Boy]

Originally Posted by SeanPlunk

Where did you but the money order from? I work for a credit union and we can get copies of money orders going back pretty much forever. Maybe you could go back to where you got it and they could provide you a copy?

I bought it from the Post Office. I asked about it and they told me without the receipt they wouldn't be able to help me.

[enkeivette]

DB, SeanPlunk is right, and as I've said, you need to pull out a small loan or a cash advance. Easy as pie.

Originally Posted by Durango_Boy

As soon as I damaged the set I was going to send Mike I got on the phone with that machine shop, and the owner who I have used before and considered a friend, and I told him I needed a set of the same heads, sent to a different address, and I was sending him money. His Paypal account was closed so I procured a money order from the Post Office and mailed it to the machine shop. He received the payment, and started on the heads.

The first big delay came from the machine shop not having enough valves to complete the set and they had to wait for more. I also had them machine the temp sender hole a bit bigger on one side so Mike could use his stock temp sender. I had originally told him I would machine a stock one down for him but decided to have the machine shop do it on their end while they were waiting for the valves.

Soon after, I couldn't get emails to or from them, and I only got the owner on the phone a few times. He did tell me the heads shipped and I had to get a hold of him later to ask for the tracking, when he told me there was no tracking and that his dock worker shipped them with nothing added to the basic shipping costs, which was about $40. He told me he had no way to track or confirm. This also means that we don't know if they were lost, stolen, shipped to the wrong address, or just not shipped at all.

Contact with the machine shop at this point is not possible, and completely my problem...just like the rest of it. I fully understand that Mike needs to be paid back but I can only go as fast as I can raise the money.

To make this clear, despite all the accusations, I never intended to steal or scam Mike. I know he doesn't believe that and I would feel just like him if I were in his shoes. However I am in MY shoes, and it feels totally different on this end knowing what needs to be done but that I cannot JUST pay him back like it might be as easy. I don't have disposable income, to the point where I can just send Mike $770. I make no assumptions about HIS financial position, and maybe he's just as tapped, but my wallet is empty and I'm trying to gather the $770 as fast as I can.

The machine shops needs to cover the loss if they put something in the mail without a tracking number. By the way if they have an account with a shipping company (Fed Ex. UPS...) (and they will, I do) then they should be able to look up their account history and pull out a tracking number. Even the most simple USPS shipping (although it does not come with a tracking number with details about checkpoint times and locations) comes with a a number on the original receipt (there are records I am sure) that can be used to confirm actual delivery.

Either way, the machine shop owes YOU a set of heads or a refund. Get over there ASAP and demand you heads, bring the receipt that they gave you or the work order (this is your proof) and demand a set of heads or PROOF of shipment. If they provide proof of shipment, you'll need to have them file a claim to with the shipping insurance to cover their costs to pay YOU back! Because it's on them in this scenario.

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

Let me get this straight. Just because I know what rape is, doesn't mean I am a rapist?

I know that you're a big boy Zuki, but believe it or not RodsKnockin actually needed this explained to him.

Originally Posted by Rodsknockin

Are the boys leaning on you?

The last person to send me an e-mail other than other mods was DB. So no, none of the "bad guys" are persuading me to do anything. They seem to enjoy freedom of speech as well.

Originally Posted by Rodsknockin

enkievette you need to ban me quick and shut me up.All this truthful information on the Drunken Brawl Cafe might undermine the Vettmod boys credibility.Wow almost 5000 views.

Those of you that really want the truth take a min and go to CF and sign up and go through the archives of the VM boys posts and see the hate they were spreading.If CF didnt like them they were going to make sure no one had any peace.Just check all the boys that have posted in this thread and let everyone know what you think.

As much as I don't like you, and as strongly as I believe that you are impersonating someone/ something that you are clearly not, I will not ban you simply because I don't like you. You have a right to stay as long as you don't break any rules...

[Durango_Boy]

Originally Posted by enkeivette

The machine shops needs to cover the loss if they put something in the mail without a tracking number. By the way if they have an account with a shipping company (Fed Ex. UPS...) (and they will, I do) then they should be able to look up their account history and pull out a tracking number. Even the most simple USPS shipping (although it does not come with a tracking number with details about checkpoint times and locations) comes with a a number on the original receipt (there are records I am sure) that can be used to confirm actual delivery.

Either way, the machine shop owes YOU a set of heads or a refund. Get over there ASAP and demand you heads, bring the receipt that they gave you or the work order (this is your proof) and demand a set of heads or PROOF of shipment. If they provide proof of shipment, you'll need to have them file a claim to with the shipping insurance to cover their costs to pay YOU back! Because it's on them in this scenario.

Agreed, however, they are not local...based out of TN, and none of the info I have on them comes up with anything. I might have to resort to my own legal actions to get anything from them, though I know that would cost me more than I will lose by paying Mike back.

Essentially when I say they are unreachable it means that I cannot reach or find them. Yes, I am trying, and I am looking into them as much as I can...but as I said that isn't the business of Mike or anyone here...it's all on me.

[mrharris32]

Obviously I'm "new" to your community. I am not much for forums, never have been. As an IT man by day I spend my share of time behind the bright light but never really found it worthwhile to spend time "posting" on, or for that matter wasting so much time assessing other peoples lives. In the real world those people are usually women who watch Soaps, gossip, and live off their husbands income.

I've read all 33 pages of crap here and am amazed, is this what people are spending their time on?

Now, for the biggie that should spark another 30 pages of wasted time and cloaked bitching from guys who wrench on their pet projects and have spent so much time reading GM tech data they believe to be "master mechanics". My name is Matt, and I am a personal friend of DB/Matt...I have been for many many years. Before you fall off your chair I stumbled on this thread during a conversation with DB, he simply recommended it as a good read.

I was there the day this man signed up for CF, he was in MY shop on one of the terminals we used to diagnose or obtain tech data for repairs. DB is not some half ass sitting behind a computer...this man has put in hundreds upon hundreds of hours turning wrenches. He was my partner for 4 years at a classic car restoration shop where we put together everything from a 77 Charger to an 87 Toyota Pickup...an interesting restore based on the truck shown in the movie "back to the future". The truck belonged to a young man who died, his brother wanted the truck as his brother did...DB being the asshole that he is spent hundreds of hours, 18 hour shifts, etc working on this vehicle so it would be done in time for a very special memorial service. What did he get paid? NOTHING.

Christmas last year we got a plea from a father wanting to give his daughter a vehicle on Christmas, a 99 Tahoe that had belonged to her deceased mother....a bent piston rod and severe bearing damage. This was a paying customer that found us about 7 days before Christmas...one that we provided a beautiful christmas to due to working non-stop for 3 days without a break. DB was there for all of it, sliced up, knuckle busted and still kicking for the sake of a young girl with a dead mother...we made a measly $750 on the job including the cost of parts/machine work.

I've seen the man build 2 trucks from spare parts that performed beautifully, I've witnessed and worked with him on hundreds of brake jobs, clutch replacements, tranny rebuilds, complete wiring (try doing a full rewire on a 65 Dodge A100 sometime)....you name it, DB and I did it together.

He's one of the most stand up guys I've ever known, guaranteed to be loyal 100% of the time....I can't count the number of times I depended on him when nobody else was willing to help.

With that said get off the dual alternators and dual washer systems, I've seen both with my own eyes and they're great. Who cares really? The dual alternator hurts nothing and the dual washer system is just neat....it's for FUN, it's unique. Lighten up...really. It may not be necessary but DB isn't building track cars.

The crap with the heads...for starters it's between 2 men, not a bunch of people who have nothing better to do on a forum. The heads to be sent were put in care of a machine shop who may or may not have fulfilled it's obligation. We've both used the shop in the past with mixed results, typically they turn out truly quality product and it's worth the wait.

Bottom line is you all know NOTHING about DB, the man gives away more auto parts than you probably have in your shop, if he had the money or credit to refund he would've done it. Apparently none of you have ever experienced hard times, I know most of the country is doing just peachy right now.

Be glad you have your jobs, quit wasting so much of your life trying to discredit someone else you don't even know (how many hours could you have spent volunteering to actually help someone instead?), and embrace all opinions on automotive maintenance, customization, and troubleshooting. None of us are right 100% of the time, most of the time we ALL have to try things 2, 3, or a 100 times before we get it right...particularly on a classic car. I don't recall any of the threads being referred to as "100% guaranteed accurate answers". We work on old cars, try new things, cuss, and aspire to build things other people cannot...leave it at that.

I welcome any questions on DB, and before any of you geek out I live in Arma, KS, Comcast provides my internet connection...feel free to check me out...you will not find me or pages of posts you can criticize.