[enkeivette]

I feel like I've posted about this before, so forgive me if I have.

Consider this quick cell phone math I did with my friend (whose mom was considering a Civic Hybrid):

We figured that she drives about 12K miles a year, pretty average. A Civic Sedan gets 35mpg, so 35/12000 = 342 (gallons of gas a year) at $4 a gallon, call it $5 in favor of the Hybrid, that's $1720 dollars a year (in fuel). Now a Civic Sedan Hybrid gets about 45 mpg, so 45/12000 = 266 gallons, at $5 that's $1330 dollars (in fuel, every year). So the difference, 1720 - 1330 = $390 a year.

OK, now the base price for a Civic Sedan is about 15K, while the base price for the Hybrid is 22.6K. So the difference is $7.6K between the cars, now we take the difference in fuel savings every year ($390) and divide that by the difference in MSRP to find how many years you'd need to own the Hybrid to match the price difference in fuel savings. 390/7600 = 19.5 Yep, that's right. It will take almost 20 years to break even.

I know what you're thinking, the cost of gas could very well jump over $5 in the near future. OK, let's say it's $10 a gallon. That's still 10 years you need to own the car just to break even. And this is all assuming that you won't need to replace those Hybrid batteries.

Now, if you're buying a Civic to replace your V8 SUV, then it won't take nearly this long to appreciate the fuel savings. I know my Neon already paid for itself, getting 25-30 mpg as opposed to the less than 10 that my Vette was getting. But maybe a Civic would be a smarter choise for you than a Hybrid. Unless you drive way more than 12K miles a year. Well, you all have calculators, have at it.

[enkeivette]

Vette math, assuming only 8K miles a year. (I can do 20 on the highway in the Vette, but I only do city driving and realistically it does worse than 10 in the city).

8000/10=800 gallons at $4.50 a gallon (premium) 800x4.5 = $3600 a year. Versus, 8000/25=320 gallons (Neon city mpg) at $4 a gallon (87 octane) = $1280 a year. The difference 3600-1280= $2320 Now since I bought my Neon for 1.8K, it paid for itself in less than a year! Not to mention the Neon tires don't wear as fast, and they're only $50 a piece as opposed to my Vette tires which are $350 a piece. And oh yeah, the Neon has AC!!!

[CorruptCulture]

I've heard this very same thing from Sean when he found out my dad got a Prius.

Basically, from my point of view, it's more about giving the money to the right place and encouraging development of such technologies. Car companies need to realize via consumer response that fuel consumption is large factor in purchasing and hopefully they will continue to R&D new technologies.

My dad said it perfectly, "It's about kicking the oil companies in the crotch and rewarding the right companies."

**EDIT

In your case, as a college student and young adult, buying the Neon was definitely the best solution for you. Taking out a loan from any other car would have been foolish.

[enkeivette]

Originally Posted by CorruptCulture

I've heard this very same thing from Sean when he found out my dad got a Prius.

Basically, from my point of view, it's more about giving the money to the right place and encouraging development of such technologies. Car companies need to realize via consumer response that fuel consumption is large factor in purchasing and hopefully they will continue to R&D new technologies.

My dad said it perfectly, "It's about kicking the oil companies in the crotch and rewarding the right companies."

**EDIT

In your case, as a college student and young adult, buying the Neon was definitely the best solution for you. Taking out a loan from any other car would have been foolish.

Well put.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by CorruptCulture

I've heard this very same thing from Sean when he found out my dad got a Prius.

Basically, from my point of view, it's more about giving the money to the right place and encouraging development of such technologies. Car companies need to realize via consumer response that fuel consumption is large factor in purchasing and hopefully they will continue to R&D new technologies.

My dad said it perfectly, "It's about kicking the oil companies in the crotch and rewarding the right companies."

**EDIT

In your case, as a college student and young adult, buying the Neon was definitely the best solution for you. Taking out a loan from any other car would have been foolish.

Yeah, and if like the Mercury in compact fluorescents that has to be disposed of by using hazmat procedures (which nobody does) we have lead acid batteries that have to be recycled, to say nothing of the extra energy required to make these "technologies" to get only nominally better mileage than a good gas engine (e.g., Focus) to say nothing of inferior mileage to a well sorted turbo diesel (which we don't have in the States for other kinda dumb reasons), hey I'm sure the oil companies are crying themselves to sleep. Wait, no China is building about 1,000 gas burning cars an hour, with India coming on strong. I think they'll be just Peachy for the remainder of your life. I'm all for consumer choice though, so if that's what a person wants, no matter how misguided their reasoning, that's fine too. JMO.

[SeanPlunk]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

Yeah, and if like the Mercury in compact fluorescents that has to be disposed of by using hazmat procedures (which nobody does) we have lead acid batteries that have to be recycled, to say nothing of the extra energy required to make these "technologies" to get only nominally better mileage than a good gas engine (e.g., Focus) to say nothing of inferior mileage to a well sorted turbo diesel (which we don't have in the States for other kinda dumb reasons), hey I'm sure the oil companies are crying themselves to sleep. Wait, no China is building about 1,000 gas burning cars an hour, with India coming on strong. I think they'll be just Peachy for the remainder of your life. I'm all for consumer choice though, so if that's what a person wants, no matter how misguided their reasoning, that's fine too. JMO.

Every new technology has some issues at first. That doesn't mean we shouldn't focus on them anyway. It is of the utmost importance that our country move away from oil. The efficient gas engines you're talking about wouldn't exist if not for the constant move of technology. Early gas motors had as much, if not more downside than flourescent bulbs and batteries do now.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by SeanPlunk

Every new technology has some issues at first. That doesn't mean we shouldn't focus on them anyway.

Of course, especially if you have some concept of where you're going with it.

It is of the utmost importance that our country move away from oil.

It is of utmost importance that our country reduce dependence on foreign sources of energy. A far better abstraction of the fundamental problem. To that end, I'm all for lovely electrical energy production technologies, (i.e., wind, solar, geo-thermal, biomass, NUCLEAR (not so popular), etc.) AND developing our own sources of oil of which there are VAST reserves. Not doing so is about as smart as hitting ourselves in the head with a hammer. Which means it's probably what we'll do.

The efficient gas engines you're talking about wouldn't exist if not for the constant move of technology. Early gas motors had as much, if not more downside than flourescent bulbs and batteries do now.

My point is that people are often completely oblivious to the downsides, becoming self-righteous know-it-alls. (See: "Smug Alert" - South Park) Go ahead, ask someone if they know what's not so good about CFLs. Ask them if they know they shouldn't put them in the regular trash, or they may be poisoning future water tables. On the other side, people get twitchy about clean coal, knowing nothing about the effectiveness of current scrubbers, catalysts and sequestration technologies. In other words, opinions are based on a lot of superficial stereotypes and not a lot of fundamental analysis of the pros and cons of available technical solutions.

[enkeivette]

All that's nice and fine, but I'm just trying to spend less money.

I wonder if this guy will be cost effective, How cool would it be to just plug in every night and spend nothing on gas.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by enkeivette

All that's nice and fine, but I'm just trying to spend less money.

I wonder if this guy will be cost effective, How cool would it be to just plug in every night and spend nothing on gas.

The important part is the DIFERRENCE in cost per mile for energy used.

y miles of travel requires x amount of gas at cost n
y miles of travel requires x kilowatt hours of power at cost n

I'm punting on the other maintenance costs which should be quite lower on an all electric vehicle, but the Volt is not. Also, they're projected pricing has gone up quite a bit. Anyway, here in the people's republic of California we're supposed to fight global warming and "Flex our Power" by reducing our power consumption, because the grid apparently can't handle peak of hours of Fing A/C. . . And we're going to go to Plug-In electrics and all Electrics . . . . Riiiiigggghhht. Again, does anybody bother writing this down on paper to see just how badly we prepare?

[enkeivette]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

The important part is the DIFERRENCE in cost per mile for energy used.

y miles of travel requires x amount of gas at cost n
y miles of travel requires x kilowatt hours of power at cost n

I'm punting on the other maintenance costs which should be quite lower on an all electric vehicle, but the Volt is not. Also, they're projected pricing has gone up quite a bit. Anyway, here in the people's republic of California we're supposed to fight global warming and "Flex our Power" by reducing our power consumption, because the grid apparently can't handle peak of hours of Fing A/C. . . And we're going to go to Plug-In electrics and all Electrics . . . . Riiiiigggghhht. Again, does anybody bother writing this down on paper to see just how badly we prepare?

Global warming is a myth hippie.