[enkeivette]

Yes, most 16 year olds are morons. No, I wouldn't give the keys to a car with a limited slip differential to 99% of the 16 year olds out there. But driver skill is driver skill, there are professional race car drivers 21, 22 years of age that can drive better than anyone on this forum.

I'm 24, and I'd be willing to bet that I drive better than 95% of the 45 year olds out there. It's about reaction time and experience pushing cars limits, and the knowledge of how the car will react.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by enkeivette

....It's about reaction time and experience pushing cars limits, and the knowledge of how the car will react.

Mmm, I'd say it's about being mature enough not to push a cars limits on public roads, hence not giving such a car to a 16 year old, and perhaps taking it away from some 24 year olds.

[Durango_Boy]

I got my first Vette when I was 18. I think I was very responsible with the car, and rarely ever let my ego drive the car for me...except one night when I annihilated a Galant GTX, or whatever the turbo version is called. I had a full car length on him by 90 MPH and he gave up at a bit under 100.

It was 2 am, I had NOT been drinking, and there were no other cars around.

I look back, and it was stupid and I don't act that way on public streets at all anymore, but I have to admit it was a lot of fun I feel I learned a lot about myself as a driver that night.

Before that, the fastest I had been was 140, in a 1991 Taurus GL.

[enkeivette]

I've hit 140mph NA, and it was easy. I look forward to pegging out the speedo at 160 next time I get a safe straightaway.

I used to slam on the gas and get into a fishtail, rock it back and forth trying to get the car as sideways as possible.

Now when I step on the gas I will lose traction easily in the first 3 gears, I enjoy feeling the rear end slide out from behind me at 90 mph.

I frequent carbon canyon road and try to average 80mph, yes average.

I'll hit up parking lots when it rains, do some donuts, get bored, then practice drifting.

No I'm not mature, yes I waste lots of gas. But my reaction time and skill enables me to do so, without ever having been in an accident. I trust myself at 160mph motre than I trust 90% of the drivers on the road at 25 mph. I'm quick, I'm safe with my mayhem (I only do it when there are no other cars in sight) I push my own limits at a gradual rate, this is the only way to learn. But in rushhour traffic, you'll never see me on the side of the road with a smashed front end. I'd rather ride shotgun in an F1 car with a pro driver (if that were possible) than ride shotgun with my grandma driving to the super market, I'd feel safer.

There is a very small percentage of people that can control a car well, and if they have the control to push a cars limits, then it is safe. Most people, should not drive a car, in any condition, whether they're 16, 36, or 56.

[Sonic03SVT]

id be real careful on carbon canyon. I drive it a couple times a week and there has been a rather disconcerting number of black and whites with radar guns even at odd hours (like, after midnight even)

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by Sonic03SVT

id be real careful on carbon canyon. I drive it a couple times a week and there has been a rather disconcerting number of black and whites with radar guns even at odd hours (like, after midnight even)

It's because SoCal cities are going broke, I mean it's for public safety.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by enkeivette

. . .
There is a very small percentage of people that can control a car well, and if they have the control to push a cars limits, then it is safe. . .

You're kind of assuming the conditions are known and static. Say you're going blasting through Carbon Canyon, there was an accident earlier in the day on a curve, a bit of oil is left on the road. . . at this point it's up to fortune, not your skill. I can come up with an infinite number of plausible scenarios that you couldn't react to fast enough.

Michael Schumacher had some pretty awesome car control I'd say, drove under completely controlled conditions, and he occasionally (rarely) made mistakes and got out of shape. The notion you can often push a high performance car near it's limits under highly controlled conditions, let alone public roads, and never get into trouble defies the laws of probability plain and simple. Put me in your Will, I always wanted a Jet Ski.

[Durango_Boy]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

It's because SoCal cities are going broke, I mean it's for public safety.

Don't we all just LOVE speed traps?

[enkeivette]

Originally Posted by Sonic03SVT

id be real careful on carbon canyon. I drive it a couple times a week and there has been a rather disconcerting number of black and whites with radar guns even at odd hours (like, after midnight even)

I've noticed that, all around town. I was speeding in the Neon last week, and I saw that prick in the DARE SUV pointing the radar at me. I slowed down real quick, turned into the driveway that he was in and quickly got lost in the neighborhood behind him. The driveway was too tight for him to have made a u turn, he would have had to 3 point it. I don't know whether or not he followed me, I got lost fast, but I do know that I was hit with the radar while speeding and I don't have a ticket. He gave me a mean stare when I turned in front of him.

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

You're kind of assuming the conditions are known and static. Say you're going blasting through Carbon Canyon, there was an accident earlier in the day on a curve, a bit of oil is left on the road. . . at this point it's up to fortune, not your skill. I can come up with an infinite number of plausible scenarios that you couldn't react to fast enough.

Michael Schumacher had some pretty awesome car control I'd say, drove under completely controlled conditions, and he occasionally (rarely) made mistakes and got out of shape. The notion you can often push a high performance car near it's limits under highly controlled conditions, let alone public roads, and never get into trouble defies the laws of probability plain and simple. Put me in your Will, I always wanted a Jet Ski.

I could stop faster in my Vette going 80mph than my grandma could in her Oldsmobile going 50, easily. (Taking into account braking force, traction, and reaction time - that's the big one.) If you want to put a dead car in the middle of the road taking up both lanes around a blind corner at night with the lights off... then anyone is going to hit. You're talking about luck, I'm talking about control.

And yes, part of being in control of the car is knowing the track conditions and not pushing the road unless you can do so safely.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by enkeivette

. . . If you want to put a dead car in the middle of the road taking up both lanes around a blind corner at night with the lights off... then anyone is going to hit. You're talking about luck, I'm talking about control.

Sure, but the result of hitting it at 40mph vs. 80mph is catastrophic.

And yes, part of being in control of the car is knowing the track conditions and not pushing the road unless you can do so safely.

My point is, unless you pre-drive just before making a high-speed pass AND have spotters on a 2-way, you CANNOT know the "track" conditions. Listen, I push a little, but well below the limits of the Vette or even myself. That is what race tracks are for. Period.