[eric97srad]

Disclaimer: this thread will almost certainly hit a few problems besides the traffic in the great state of California which have all been beaten to the ground with no solution in site.

Ben, I'm definitely looking in your direction for input on this topic too.

So, everybody in Southern California knows that the traffic is terrible (most of you probably know much better than I do, as I can generally avoid freeways in my day to day life). I feel there are countless issues contributing to the problem in some way or form and I figure this discussion might help me understand a bit more about it...

First - without doing the research for exact figures (because I'm only ranting at the moment) I would imagine that millions of dollars are spent just in the planning phases of freeway development and redevelopment. That being said, lets take a look at one of the many major problem areas - 15N to 91W interchange... terrible bottleneck even outside of rush hour traffic. How can an engineer look at a freeway interchange and think that it is effective to reduce to one lane just before merging into other traffic? I know that this is not the only bottleneck in the area - why the hell are there so many? how many retarded engineers does it take to design the California freeway system?

Second - probably the most obvious problem is overpopulation of the greater Los Angeles region. Again, without getting into too much detail (for now) - the car pool system almost makes it seem like somebody had started thinking at some point in time - but they never completed that thought. The car pool lanes are as much of a joke as the rest of the freeway. Further, it seems to me that in many of the problem areas, space is not efficiently used for the freeways themselves - the most obvious solution (adding more lanes) seems plausible in several areas... why hasn't that been done yet? And of course there is the related issue of immigration... Let me just say that I respect the hell out of foreign families that battle the bureaucratic bullshit that is the INS in order to come to this country the right way. I have a huge problem, however, with the people who think that they can get away with being here illegally AND think they have the same rights (or more rights in some cases) as our citizens. Despite my issues with the U.S. bureaucracy problem, Illegal immigrants are still ILLEGALLLL! In other words - GTFO and try doing it the right way.

Third - Assholes. Plain and simple - assholes... We are notorious assholes behind the wheel.. For example, if anybody has ever been to Germany, you know that drivers there have incredible lane discipline. Move to the right when you are going slow, use the left lane to pass and then move back to the right, have some fucking decency and be courteous to merging traffic, these are the kinds of things we don't do that cause the accordion effect of traffic, cause traffic accidents, and just piss the rational people off.

So - just scratching the surface of the issue we have:
1: Design (or lack thereof)
2: Too many people, too little space
3: Poor driving habits


What else?? any other observations on the situation?

[blackax]

I know that people can seem to drive up or down hills. On my way to work i slow down right at the 241 (going in to the oc) all because its going up hill and has a turn so people slow the f down for no reason. I know they fix hills in the 91 in riverside itself a year or so back and it did make it a lot better.

[Vettezuki]

Keep in mind my socio-political opinions are as radical as they get. I'm no longer convinced that government itself, at all, is essential to a civilized society. "Are you insane!? That's anarchy." No I'm not insane. Yes that is anarchy, but probably not at all what you're imagining. It's an enormous subject and WAY beyond the scope here, but I'm laying my POV on the table.

I'll begin with one of my favorite quotes:

The first law of economics is scarcity. The first law of politics is to ignore the first law of economics.

1 - PLANNING
Q: Who is responsible for the planning, construction and maintenance of freeways?

A: The government with the quasi-exception of leased land to toll roads.

Q: What are the objectives, risks and rewards for government to carry out said objective?

A: I think we could all agree that the proper objective is to serve the commuter so that their transit time and complexity is as minimal as possible; so that the user of a transportation corridor (note my language) can achieve their goals with maximum possible efficiency. I did not say tele-porting, or 24/7 free flowing traffic, I said maximum possible efficiency, and this will be a function of cost to users and the reality of scarce resources.

We're already in trouble in the case of government. Government does not need to operate in pursuit of profit and fear of total failure because of the way it is funded and because it lays claim to, and enforces a monopoly in providing a "public good." Many people feel this is not only good because the profit motive is in their opinion exploitative, but somehow essential; that otherwise "public goods" would be of inferior quality or not exist at all. Bollocks I say! You're experiencing the reality.

What, why and how should it be?

This is a high level, and more utilitarian perspective than my more radical and ideological POV. Still, betcha it resonates doesn't it?

YouTube- ‪Private Roads -- Stossel in the...

A little deeper, and in my school of thought.

YouTube- ‪Privatizing Roads (Walter...

With more history and implications for societal organization.

Public Sector, II: Streets and Roads - from "For a New Liberty"

The issues of population and culture either follow from here or are different subjects altogether. Let's start with this.

[eric97srad]

that settles it. I'm buying a helicopter. thanks Ben