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01-09-2009, 10:53 AM
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#91
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Fast & Filthy
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUTAL64
The reason I picked 190 to 210 is the difference between manufactures flow rates. Some 210cc flow about what a AFR 190cc does in the mid lifts. AFR around 190cc would be about perfect. But, you said cost was a factor.
Everyone has different ideas on what to use. Lets figure our cost factor and THEN we can pick our intake runner based on manufacture flow rates. 
Another thing to keep in mind is: An NA motor drags the air/fuel into the cylinder- a forced induction pushes the air/fuel in. Port velocity in small NA engines is VERY important. BUT, Forced Induction is pushed thru port and port size (to a limit) can be bigger than on a NA motor. |
Good points. |
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01-09-2009, 11:05 AM
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#92
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Neanderthal
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94cobra69ss396
Good points.
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Hey, thanks.
Every once in a while I get things right. 
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64 Vette Roadster 400 ci
1990 F150 351 ci SuperCharged
48 Harley Pan Head 76 ci
2016 Nissan Altma
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01-09-2009, 11:09 AM
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#93
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I, Vettezuki
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,754
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Joe has the intake with the blower, but does not have a carb for it anymore. He suggested a Demon Holly 750. Anyone, anyone?
I will begin looking for a smoking deal on AFR 190s~ to get a feel for how much they will likely be.
Or maybe just a pair of these, as BRUTAL originally suggested.
http://www.tristatecylinderhead.com/...roducts_id=106
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01-09-2009, 11:25 AM
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#94
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Neanderthal
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vettezuki
Joe has the intake with the blower, but does not have a carb for it anymore. He suggested a Demon Holly 750. Anyone, anyone?
I will begin looking for a smoking deal on AFR 190s~ to get a feel for how much they will likely be.
Or maybe just a pair of these, as BRUTAL originally suggested.
http://www.tristatecylinderhead.com/...roducts_id=106 |
AFR is the best for the cost.
These are the heads I actually suggested. Now these are China heads. They will probably need some work- quality may be an issue ( I haven't seen these head myself)--but the price is right. I know some of you guys don't like china heads. 
http://www.tristatecylinderhead.com/...products_id=29
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64 Vette Roadster 400 ci
1990 F150 351 ci SuperCharged
48 Harley Pan Head 76 ci
2016 Nissan Altma
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01-09-2009, 01:02 PM
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#95
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I, Vettezuki
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,754
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I just talked to Troy at Ford Performance in Anaheim. They're a speed shop in Anaheim that build motors of all types, but somewhat specialize in Ford. He helped me a bit during my Corvette build.
I talked to him about our build and he recommended off the shelf as cast Avenger Heads with 195 cc runners, Fully assembled including shaft mounted rockers: $859 for the pair. They were going for like $1199 and up recently, but the economy ain't so hot. They are brand new aluminum heads. He says he uses them on their crate NA 347 for 440HP. Plenty of head for our application.
This seems like the way to go, the AFRs are just a bit much. Any thoughts?
He had two questions. What are the pistons? Something about making sure they had the proper valve relief. He said as long as they were aftermarket pistons there should be no problem. Also, he wanted to know about the cam so he could set up the spring pressure properly.
Keep looking or pull the trigger? This represents the upper end of my budget for heads.
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01-09-2009, 01:30 PM
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#96
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUTAL64
Head bolts are different. 7/16s on the SBC and 1/2 inch on 351w. BUT, if I remember correctly, there are SPECIAL head bolts for that. Anyone??
"BTW, what about intake and carb, those seem important too. "
I though we were going blower? |
Yep, most aftermarket heads are interchangeable now. You just have to purchase the correct head bolts/studs.
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HP numbers are good and all, but they are like asking someone how much they can bench. What difference does it make if I can still kick your ass?
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01-09-2009, 02:09 PM
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#97
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vettezuki
I just talked to Troy at Ford Performance in Anaheim. They're a speed shop in Anaheim that build motors of all types, but somewhat specialize in Ford. He helped me a bit during my Corvette build.
I talked to him about our build and he recommended off the shelf as cast Avenger Heads with 195 cc runners, Fully assembled including shaft mounted rockers: $859 for the pair. They were going for like $1199 and up recently, but the economy ain't so hot. They are brand new aluminum heads. He says he uses them on their crate NA 347 for 440HP. Plenty of head for our application.
This seems like the way to go, the AFRs are just a bit much. Any thoughts?
He had two questions. What are the pistons? Something about making sure they had the proper valve relief. He said as long as they were aftermarket pistons there should be no problem. Also, he wanted to know about the cam so he could set up the spring pressure properly.
Keep looking or pull the trigger? This represents the upper end of my budget for heads.
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I don't remember and can't find the paperwork to determine what pistons I purchased for this engine. They are definitely aftermarket pistons. I'm pretty sure they have valve reliefs cut in them, but you'll be able to see that when you pull the heads anyway.
Again, I can't find any specs on the cam, but I would be very surprised if it had more than .540 lift on the exhaust side, and no more than ~230 - 240* of duration at .050 on the exhaust side. It would be less on the intake side. This was a pretty mild cam.
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HP numbers are good and all, but they are like asking someone how much they can bench. What difference does it make if I can still kick your ass?
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01-09-2009, 02:14 PM
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#98
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Neanderthal
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vettezuki
I just talked to Troy at Ford Performance in Anaheim. They're a speed shop in Anaheim that build motors of all types, but somewhat specialize in Ford. He helped me a bit during my Corvette build.
I talked to him about our build and he recommended off the shelf as cast Avenger Heads with 195 cc runners, Fully assembled including shaft mounted rockers: $859 for the pair. They were going for like $1199 and up recently, but the economy ain't so hot. They are brand new aluminum heads. He says he uses them on their crate NA 347 for 440HP. Plenty of head for our application.
This seems like the way to go, the AFRs are just a bit much. Any thoughts?
He had two questions. What are the pistons? Something about making sure they had the proper valve relief. He said as long as they were aftermarket pistons there should be no problem. Also, he wanted to know about the cam so he could set up the spring pressure properly.
Keep looking or pull the trigger? This represents the upper end of my budget for heads.
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That sounds fine to me. I won't know till I look at the head if they have possiblites. Even then I can only look for MAJOR problems with the Port shape and bowl area. Does he have some flow numbers? I can look at those (if the flow numbers are correct) and get an idea what it will do.
They are probably fine, your call. Like I said, we can make anything work here.
Just need a good starting point. They will be better than any stock head I could port. 
Saturday after the run I could give a Porting 101 class. Someone just needs to bring a pad (big) and pen.
__________________
64 Vette Roadster 400 ci
1990 F150 351 ci SuperCharged
48 Harley Pan Head 76 ci
2016 Nissan Altma
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01-09-2009, 02:25 PM
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#99
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUTAL64
That sounds fine to me. I won't know till I look at the head if they have possiblites. Even then I can only look for MAJOR problems with the Port shape and bowl area. Does he have some flow numbers? I can look at those (if the flow numbers are correct) and get an idea what it will do.
They are probably fine, your call. Like I said, we can make anything work here.
Just need a good starting point. They will be better than any stock head I could port.
Saturday after the run I could give a Porting 101 class. Someone just needs to bring a pad and pen. |
I couldn't find the 195cc version on their website, but I looked at the 185cc & 205cc. The 185 flowed 274 cfm on intake and 190 on exhaust @ .550 lift. The 205 flowed 290 cfm on intake and 223 on exhaust @ .550 lift.
http://www.avengercylinderheads.com/SBF185.pdf
http://www.avengercylinderheads.com/SBF205.pdf
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HP numbers are good and all, but they are like asking someone how much they can bench. What difference does it make if I can still kick your ass?
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01-09-2009, 02:33 PM
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#100
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I, Vettezuki
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUTAL64
That sounds fine to me. I won't know till I look at the head if they have possiblites. Even then I can only look for MAJOR problems with the Port shape and bowl area. Does he have some flow numbers? I can look at those (if the flow numbers are correct) and get an idea what it will do.
They are probably fine, your call. Like I said, we can make anything work here.
Just need a good starting point. They will be better than any stock head I could port.
Saturday after the run I could give a Porting 101 class. Someone just needs to bring a pad (big) and pen. |
These heads are "as cast". They need to be ported for maximum awesomeness.
We are going with 195 (I think).
Here are the flow numbers for his CNC Ported 185:
Lift:cfm-in:cfm-out
.100:69:59
.200:129:118
.300:188:153
.400:234:178
.500:269:189
.600:278:195
.700:281:210
.800:288:228
For his CNC Ported 205
.100:71:61
.200:142:124
.300:190:162
.400:252:200
.500:287:218
.600:300:225
.700:305:230
.800:309:235
So, I sort of infer that our flow numbers for a 195 and .550 lift would be
284:207
How's dat?
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