[Sonic03SVT]

Most people dont have any clue what the old fox chassis can do with some work unless they've seen it firsthand. Let them laugh, then show em taillights on the track, they wont know what hit them.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by Shaolin Crane

Dont laugh too hard...

The original suspension is so dreadfully wrong for a track that you have to attach rather a lot of extra things (some of it partially unsprung weight) to get it track-like. It's impressive what can be done. But I seriously doubt that for equivalent cash outlay, starting from a raw Fox or raw Miata base, that they would even be vaguely comparable for handling feel. I'm not talking about ETs necessarily, but handling feel, which is a qualitative thing anyway. My Vette is substantially updated and hardened and handles quite well for what it is, and plenty fast. It's not at all in the same league as my wife's stock MX-5, which is the best handling car I've driven hard personally. If I were seirous about a track car and racing competively, and didn't have the money for a Vette . . or a Ferrari . . it would be a Miata for sure. Now for cost effective drag racing? A 5.0 Fox with a blower is hard to beat, that's why you see millions of them.

I salute you for doing something somewhat odd though. For the same money and doing something a little unusual, I'd go with Factory Five Type 65, with a Coyote motor or something like that.

[Sonic03SVT]

Tired of mustangs being sold so short in the handling department. We arent discussing stock, far from it. What is "feel"? Ill take a fox that runs faster laps over a ferrari that "feels" better. Its all in the results, and the fact is, the results that can be had with a fox, with minimal outlay really, are seriously impressive.

Coilovers, Subframes, a torque arm setup or sorted Fox4 IRS and a decent diet and you can get a fox chassis to be seriously competitive with some real high dollar cars. Its done regularly, youd be surprised what the results are. Much like "50/50 weight distribution" I think "Feel" is horribly overrated. My car has atrocious weight distribution. Still manages to be awful quick on a track. Drive his fox when its done. Youll be impressed.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by Sonic03SVT

Tired of mustangs being sold so short in the handling department. We arent discussing stock, far from it. What is "feel"? Ill take a fox that runs faster laps over a ferrari that "feels" better. Its all in the results, and the fact is, the results that can be had with a fox, with minimal outlay really, are seriously impressive.

Coilovers, Subframes, a torque arm setup or sorted Fox4 IRS and a decent diet and you can get a fox chassis to be seriously competitive with some real high dollar cars. Its done regularly, youd be surprised what the results are. Much like "50/50 weight distribution" I think "Feel" is horribly overrated. My car has atrocious weight distribution. Still manages to be awful quick on a track. Drive his fox when its done. Youll be impressed.

I'm not saying feel is quantitative, it isn't. So I don't really argue about it. If it's not important to you, that's fine. I'm sure Guy's Fox will be brutal on the track, I'm also sure I'd be fairly miserable and pissing blood probably if I drove to and from the track by the sounds of it. Give me the C6Z for equal/greater performance and a car I can drive in other contexts. For competitive racing, it's just a matter of class, objective, and budget. For least expensive serious competitive racing, it's spec Miata. Money no object, I'll take a track ready Ferrari thanks. In between there's a million options and ways to go, and a pimped Fox is one of them. Just for me, vaguely similar budgets, I'd still start with a Vette.

[Shaolin Crane]

I know ive said it before but here goes
With the stock motor, iron heads and all i came in at 2940 with driver perfect 50/50 side to side distributuion
F/R was 56/42, mind you that was with the iron heads and battery in the stock location with stock fan and radiator
Best cornerinfg ability using a autometer dpic was 1.3g4 on R6's well warmed
60-0 was 101'
And this relative "feel" is very under rated, it inspire confidence in any portion of the track

Now figure new engine, battery relocated, additional accessories removed i'll lose about 100lbs off the nose, that will bring it to near perfect 50/50 once the cage is installed.

Now the comfort, well thats gone. Yes, its a workout to drive it sparingly, but get it on a track and its smooth as butter, short turn rack is only 1 turn to lock and can make a 90* turn without overlapping your hands, quick responsivness is perfect, i offer for you to give it a drive with the new engine.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by Shaolin Crane

I know ive said it before but here goes
With the stock motor, iron heads and all i came in at 2940 with driver perfect 50/50 side to side distributuion
F/R was 56/42, mind you that was with the iron heads and battery in the stock location with stock fan and radiator
Best cornerinfg ability using a autometer dpic was 1.3g4 on R6's well warmed
60-0 was 101'
And this relative "feel" is very under rated, it inspire confidence in any portion of the track

Now figure new engine, battery relocated, additional accessories removed i'll lose about 100lbs off the nose, that will bring it to near perfect 50/50 once the cage is installed.

Now the comfort, well thats gone. Yes, its a workout to drive it sparingly, but get it on a track and its smooth as butter, short turn rack is only 1 turn to lock and can make a 90* turn without overlapping your hands, quick responsivness is perfect, i offer for you to give it a drive with the new engine.

Feel is important to me to for the reason you mention, plus just enjoyment of something that works without struggling against "weirdness".

A full loaded stock MX-5 is 2,400lbs. A race prepped earlier gen is about 1,800. That's with a cage. Throw on a turbo setup and you can have the same power:weight in a car with massively less total weight, which benefits everything. Of course the 5.0 has a lot of room to make massively more power, which can get the job done too.

It's smooth as butter on a smooth track. Live axles hop around like crack heads in the corners on rough tracks. Actually that's really the only area where an IRS is objectively superior to modern live axle setups. Otherwise the live axle has a lot going for it (simplicity, strength, weight). Think of how good just the bone stock current V6 Mustang is.

[AARP]

Shaolin, have you driven a race prepped first generation miata? I haven't driven a fox so my view is from the collective.

The stock miata's major shortfall is body roll. However, I run front and rear swaybars with a 6 point roll bar with door bars bolted to the frame. This eliminates most body roll and makes the car handle amazingly along with the 50/50 weight distribution.

In response to Spec Miata Ben, racing really isn't that cheap there either. You COULD have a legal spec miata for 10k, but things have gotten ridiculous and you need at least 30k to be competitive nowadays.

[Shaolin Crane]

Race prep is a relative term. I have driven well prepped miata and the lack of "oh shit" power makes for a dull drive, IMO. As far as a turbo, let me know how a turbo driven car feels on a road course vs. A n/a car, turbos are a pain and should be left for towing or drag racing. This coming from someone who drives the best designed turbo system ever (IMO). And still wouldnt want it in a handling scenario. I could have done a IRS but i wanted to have the dependability of a solid axle with a car that makes approx. 525bhp. An irs wont hold up to a 7k clutch dump.

[enkeivette]

Originally Posted by Shaolin Crane

No, a fox... can be had for as cheap as a miata and made to handle better
Or go buy a c5

This quote proves you either hate Jap cars, or are just a tad too gaga over Ford.

Aint no solid axle Mustang gonna handle like a Miata without tires that are worth more than the Miata.

[enkeivette]

Originally Posted by Shaolin Crane

An irs wont hold up to a 7k clutch dump.

Uh... yes it will ...Admittedly, maybe not with slicks.

But yeah, I'll have to agree about the Miata IRS. It looks like something you would find on an RC car.

This is why I suggested RX7 people, perfect balance of power and handling.