[BRUTAL64]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

Tuners don't count. Factory to factory OEM comparisons do. Or X$ comparisons are also relevant. Lingenfelter had Vette packages well beyond 800HP almost 10 years ago.

To be honest, I won't buy anything from any company taking public money to pay for private union legacy costs. I was really looking forward to buying a top of the line, factory delivery Vette for my 50th B-Day (yeah 16 years from now). But if they don't exist, or are taking public money I won't. If Ford isn't, I'd be happy to buy a Roush Stage 3 or something like that. They are fantastic. I'm a Vette guy because of what they are and because of their colorful history. But basically I don't "care" about any maker really.

FORD, Chevy or Mopar. They all have their good points. FORD just has a few more.


I do hope you will be able to get the Vette you want when you turn 50.
I don't want any of the Big Three fail.

[Douglas Mariani]

Originally Posted by BRUTAL64

Now Doug, you don't want to go there. Everybody here know FORDS are stronger, better and faster than any GM vehicle. That's why FORD doesn't need any "Bail" out money.
You know the way things are going, there may not be any Chevies built in the future.

Glenn GM needs Bail out money because of mismanagement and corporate executives who don't know their a$$ from their elbow. Granted Ford is managed much better than GM. Now on whos better,stronger and faster? I would have to say its been neck & neck for decades. Ford & GM both produced some great performence cars & some real $hit boxes.

[enkeivette]

If all of those primaries are open, I'll bet that BBQ gets real hot, real fast. I would think that would be too much airflow to cook anything thick well.

[Douglas Mariani]

Originally Posted by enkeivette

If all of those primaries are open, I'll bet that BBQ gets real hot, real fast. I would think that would be too much airflow to cook anything thick well.

I wonder if they could regulate the temp by the propane flow. I just noticed the Chevy Bow Tie in the middle of the grill.

[enkeivette]

Originally Posted by Douglas Mariani

I wonder if they could regulate the temp by the propane flow. I just noticed the Chevy Bow Tie in the middle of the grill.

Oh haha, I was thinking it was a charcoal grill. That makes more sense. Us po folk is still usin coal.

[enkeivette]

Originally Posted by BRUTAL64

FORD, Chevy or Mopar. They all have their good points. FORD just has a few more.


I do hope you will be able to get the Vette you want when you turn 50.
I don't want any of the Big Three fail.

These discussions are pointless, Ford vs Chevy, Jap vs American. It all depends on the model. There aint an intelligent Ford lover out there that would take a Taurus over a ZR1. And there aint an intelligent Chevy lover out there that would take an HHR over a Cobra.

The Jap vs American discussion gets a lil tricky, because there are a lot of older guys who dislike Japan on principle. But for those of us who are too cavalier to care, no die hard Ford or Chevy lover in here would take an Cavalier or an Escort over a Supra.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by enkeivette

Oh haha, I was thinking it was a charcoal grill. That makes more sense. Us po folk is still usin coal.

Prepare yourself for nerdom:

SUBJECT: Grill vs. BBQ

Grill = Fast and Hot
BBQ = Slow and Low

Non-southerners have a tendency to lump everything into "BBQ" when in fact they are "grilling". Anybody who has had real BBQ knows there is a radical difference.

Don't get me started on the difference between propane, cheap charcoal, and "real" charcoal.

Bottom line. If you want an extraordinary experience of taste, a real Southern BBQ (never mind the differences between Texas, Mississippi, etc., here) is heads and shoulders above our somewhat lazy grilling typical of CA.

What's awesome about this? Real BBQ, the most awesome tasting, comes from the poor folks.

See Anthony Bourdain's "No Reservations" on the travel channel for an ongoing discussion of how the poor people of the world really can take chicken shit and turn it into chicken soup (as you're fond of saying). It's also great for a lot of social commentary and observation.

See Alton Brown's "Good Eats" on Food Network for the best cooking show in the world in my opinion. It is particular fantastic from a food science perspective.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by enkeivette

These discussions are pointless, Ford vs Chevy, Jap vs American. It all depends on the model. There aint an intelligent Ford lover out there that would take a Taurus over a ZR1. And there aint an intelligent Chevy lover out there that would take an HHR over a Cobra.

I kinda know where you're coming from and basically agree. Hell, it's the guts of what Motorgen is about to a certain extent.

But, I love challenging you to think a bit more precisely. You're mixing family functional cars with performance cars. It's a category mistake.

Taurus vs. HHR = rational
Taurus vs. ZR1 != rationl

The appropriate comparison is new Taurus vs. newish Malibu. Between the makes over time, heck I don't know. Certainly Ford can lay claim to a lot of early core technology, so can Chrysler. But wait, it was a Cadillac that was THE first car to be laid out like a car we would recognize.

The Jap vs American discussion gets a lil tricky, because there are a lot of older guys who dislike Japan on principle. But for those of us who are too cavalier to care, no die hard Ford or Chevy lover in here would take an Cavalier or an Escort over a Supra.

Indeed it is more tricky because of national identity. I'm just glad there all kinds of cars, because a world of just Corvettes, as much as I love them, wouldn't be all that interesting. I want the GT-R to be awesome almost as much as the Nissan fan-boys. I love racing against a strong Ford. In life, happiness comes from an honest hard struggle against worthy adversaries.

I also love Makes/Models that are long . . . long gone. Someday if I have real money, I'd LOVE to restore a Studebaker Starliner.

[enkeivette]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

What's awesome about this? Real BBQ, the most awesome tasting, comes from the poor folks.

See Anthony Bourdain's "No Reservations" on the travel channel for an ongoing discussion of how the poor people of the world really can take chicken shit and turn it into chicken soup (as you're fond of saying). It's also great for a lot of social commentary and observation.

Agreed and thanks for the clarification, although... I must admit I'm still confused as to what the difference is between a BBQ & a Grill.

And clean up the language Ben. Next time it happens I'll have to ban you.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by enkeivette

Agreed and thanks for the clarification, although... I must admit I'm still confused as to what the difference is between a BBQ & a Grill.

And clean up the language Ben. Next time it happens I'll have to ban you.

This is Grilling. High heat, short period of time (10 minutes range lets say). You grill burgers, hot dogs, vegetables etc.


This is a fancy BBQ with attached smoker. They are often made out of 55 gal drums. Low heat long time (many hours depending on the various factors.) You BBQ pork shoulder and other tough less desired cuts. This is what poor folks in the South figured out. You could take the cheap pieces of meat and with the right treatment, they become damn tasty. The point of real BBQ is that the long time at low temp with smoking breaks down all the sinew, connective tissue and collagen in the cheap cuts, which are then absorbed into the meat itself, and voila, greatness is achieved.

Most people call grilling BBQ but nobody calls real BBQ grilling (that I've ever heard.)