[enkeivette]

Originally Posted by BlacknBoostn

HAH Bigger is not always better, why do you think it is that the American Club Racing edition has a smaller size rim? They look great too! but wider will be better, got my eyes on hopefully a 16x8 possibly a 17x8

i've always been more focused on handling personally, i can always throw on slicks for drag. it's not like i intend to be racing my car all over the city so handling is more important to me when it's properly balanced

Not sure what American Club Racing is. But it is poor judgement to assume that just because some manufacturer produces something or some type of racing adapts a rule, that it is absolutely the correct thing to do.

As an example, Nascars have power steering. Does that mean that power steering is always best for racing? Obviously not.

A lower profile tire (street tires) will always provide less roll and better handling. Ideally for a road racer, you'll want the tire width to be less wide than the rim (I think 2" is ideal). But having a wider tire (assuming we're comparing two like tires) will always provide more grip, that's pretty basic. Now if we're talking about drag racing, you'll want a slightly smaller diameter rim for less sidewall stiffness and less consequent tire spin. Or if you're using wrinkle wall slicks you'll want the tire diameter to be much smaller, so that the sides of the tire can actually wrinkle and allow the tire to grip. But street tires aren't made like this.

I see some 17x10s in your future bro.

[SeanPlunk]

Originally Posted by BlacknBoostn

Pictures will be coming on tuesday when I have enough daylight to take them!!! I only have limited pictures for the walkthrough so I'll write it up the best I can from memory. I'm pretty familiar so it should be no big deal...

Enkeivette, the understeer is fantastic, virtually none currently. it's gripping the road and holding. the only thing thats holding it back is my tires, need to upgrade to wider tires all around.

most noticeable difference in improved feel is responsiveness. The car feels incredibly agile now, moreso than before. Sway bars will be added eventually in addition to upper and lower f/r strut bars.

Another HUGE improvement is traction and shifting for launch. GOODBYE wheel hop HELLO tirespin! Spun tires through first and most of second at full throttle with no wheel hop. Shifting is crisper and more responsive. less of a lurch during the shift. Feels fantastic. Even my troublesome 3rd gear feels better now. Only on upshift haha.

When I get home from the auto show tonight their better be pics in this thread

[BlacknBoostn]

Originally Posted by enkeivette

Not sure what American Club Racing is. But it is poor judgement to assume that just because some manufacturer produces something or some type of racing adapts a rule, that it is absolutely the correct thing to do.

As an example, Nascars have power steering. Does that mean that power steering is always best for racing? Obviously not.

A lower profile tire (street tires) will always provide less roll and better handling. Ideally for a road racer, you'll want the tire width to be less wide than the rim (I think 2" is ideal). But having a wider tire (assuming we're comparing two like tires) will always provide more grip, that's pretty basic. Now if we're talking about drag racing, you'll want a slightly smaller diameter rim for less sidewall stiffness and less consequent tire spin. Or if you're using wrinkle wall slicks you'll want the tire diameter to be much smaller, so that the sides of the tire can actually wrinkle and allow the tire to grip. But street tires aren't made like this.

I see some 17x10s in your future bro.

In a different thread it was proven that the ACR (American Club Racing) Dodge Viper basically rules all. Built for handling, road racing, performance. I was referring to the Dodge Neon SRT4 ACR.

http://www.motorgen.com/forum/showth...p?t=739&page=2

that's the thread to back it up. When a car with the ACR performance package puts out numbers like that against cars with those price tags I'll trust their specifications. Not that they can't be improved upon. IMO the tires should always fit the rims for best all around performance handling. I have no reason to run slicks all day. When going to the drag track putting on wider tires is beneficial, but thats not the basis i'm building my car on. 17x10 may have some trouble fitting correctly without fender modification. I'm trying to keep it simple. I've always been more of an autocrossing road racing fan than drag, hence the smaller diameter rims. I will agree 100% that WIDER is better (as long as it is the correct size tire for the rim), but not the diameter. That is completely subjective to the form of racing one prefers to partake in.

I understand the different benefits that one may see from different size tires and stretching and whatnot, I just don't agree with them. A tire should always fit the rim for the highest level of safety and performance. stretched tires don't do any benefit, if i'm going to run a 17x10 inch rim for road racing, i'm not going to try to fit a smaller width tire than what is recommended. likewise, i will not try to fit a larger width tire than is reasonable. it just doesn't make sense.

Sean, Pix comin up!

[BlacknBoostn]

Sean, Pix Are Up

[BlacknBoostn]

Originally Posted by BlacknBoostn

Sean, Pix Are Up

What, I can't type in all caps?

[enkeivette]

Originally Posted by BlacknBoostn

In a different thread it was proven that the ACR (American Club Racing) Dodge Viper basically rules all. Built for handling, road racing, performance. I was referring to the Dodge Neon SRT4 ACR.

http://www.motorgen.com/forum/showth...p?t=739&page=2

that's the thread to back it up. When a car with the ACR performance package puts out numbers like that against cars with those price tags I'll trust their specifications. Not that they can't be improved upon. IMO the tires should always fit the rims for best all around performance handling. I have no reason to run slicks all day. When going to the drag track putting on wider tires is beneficial, but thats not the basis i'm building my car on. 17x10 may have some trouble fitting correctly without fender modification. I'm trying to keep it simple. I've always been more of an autocrossing road racing fan than drag, hence the smaller diameter rims. I will agree 100% that WIDER is better (as long as it is the correct size tire for the rim), but not the diameter. That is completely subjective to the form of racing one prefers to partake in.

I understand the different benefits that one may see from different size tires and stretching and whatnot, I just don't agree with them. A tire should always fit the rim for the highest level of safety and performance. stretched tires don't do any benefit, if i'm going to run a 17x10 inch rim for road racing, i'm not going to try to fit a smaller width tire than what is recommended. likewise, i will not try to fit a larger width tire than is reasonable. it just doesn't make sense.

Sean, Pix comin up!

I was joking about the 17x10s. I do think you should go wider, but not 10" wide for a DD. Saying that any car "rules all" is a definite statement. And once again, saying that just because ACR does something, that it is the thing to do, is a definite statement. And definite statements are almost always wrong. Especially when all you have is one example to back it up. To make it even worse, ACR is limited to producing DOT friendly cars. Who knows what they would have done had they not been restricted by Dodge and DOT. For one, they were probably restricted to rim width, for reasons such as: not putting excess load on the trans, and keeping the tire from rubbing the wheel well, and since they are unwilling to go with a wider (and better) tire (for fear of destroying the drivetrain) they decide to give up some sidewall stiffness for some traction. Dodge/ ACR is not going to produce a car that isn't perfectly idiot proof. Nevertheless, a tire that is a lower profile and wide enough to at least compensate for the increased sidewall stiffness will enable the car to perform better (assuming consistent material quality of course).

Take SVT for example, because they decided to go with a 4" (?) pulley on the Cobra does that mean that a 3.5" pulley wouldn't be better? No, obviously not, look at Sean's car. But they're not going to produce something that is capable of destroying its own reciprocating assembly and drivetrain parts. Ergo, you cannot say: SVT rules all, and whatever SVT does must be the thing to do. These guys are playing it safe, they have to.

Take that ACR SRT4, pull the 16" rims (225 50) off it, install some 18" x 9 1/2" rims with a 275 30 tire, some nice fat fender well rubbing tires that will make dealers cough up more warranty work due to blown up transmissions and I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that lap times would go down.

[BlacknBoostn]

Originally Posted by enkeivette

I was joking about the 17x10s. I do think you should go wider, but not 10" wide for a DD. Saying that any car "rules all" is a definite statement. And once again, saying that just because ACR does something, that it is the thing to do, is a definite statement. And definite statements are almost always wrong. Especially when all you have is one example to back it up. To make it even worse, ACR is limited to producing DOT friendly cars. Who knows what they would have done had they not been restricted by Dodge and DOT. For one, they were probably restricted to rim width, for reasons such as: not putting excess load on the trans, and keeping the tire from rubbing the wheel well, and since they are unwilling to go with a wider (and better) tire (for fear of destroying the drivetrain) they decide to give up some sidewall stiffness for some traction. Dodge/ ACR is not going to produce a car that isn't perfectly idiot proof. Nevertheless, a tire that is a lower profile and wide enough to at least compensate for the increased sidewall stiffness will enable the car to perform better (assuming consistent material quality of course).

Take SVT for example, because they decided to go with a 4" (?) pulley on the Cobra does that mean that a 3.5" pulley wouldn't be better? No, obviously not, look at Sean's car. But they're not going to produce something that is capable of destroying its own reciprocating assembly and drivetrain parts. Ergo, you cannot say: SVT rules all, and whatever SVT does must be the thing to do. These guys are playing it safe, they have to.

Take that ACR SRT4, pull the 16" rims (225 50) off it, install some 18" x 9 1/2" rims with a 275 30 tire, some nice fat fender well rubbing tires that will make dealers cough up more warranty work due to blown up transmissions and I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that lap times would go down.

I think you're taking this conversation way too seriously. Honestly. Have a beer , I did use the word BASICALLY and I'm not really a fan of the dodge viper. I'm an import guy through and through, you didn't know what American Club Racing was, so I gave you the best example I could think of.

My reasoning that the ACR rims and tire sizes are better is because they are BBS, The stock SRT comes with a 17 inch dodge wheel, why upgrade to a 16 BBS on the performance package if it wasn't beneficial? In addition the ACR model SRT4 uses Tokico Struts, DOT legal, but also not from Dodge.

without lookin back through the thread can you even remember what the basic argument is? Oh yeah, i wanted 16x8 inch rims. I'm not here to argue a whole bunch of opinions and facts with you because none of them really matter.

[BlacknBoostn]

BTW the BFgoodrich tires are not my choice, Although sticky those tires do NOT have the sidewall stiffness I prefer in a car. I prefer Falken personally.

Also, in regards the SVT comment, we're talking about handling and suspension not the drivetrain... I can't think of very many people who've modified the suspension on their Cobras, usually because it doesn't really need it. Same with the ACR, I know of quite a few ACR srt4s who keep their stock suspension and rims, simply because it's already packaged for performance directly from the factory. Why upgrade something that's already been upgraded?

[enkeivette]

I'm familiar with the acronym ACR, just not the full name.

I remember the point, that's why I was arguing. I'm trying to talk you out of buying smaller diameter rims, not just prove a point. It just seems silly to me to model your car after a factory option. I would never do that, I always look to the guy who has done insane things with a C3 for advice and inspiration, not what GM did for their L82 engine back in the 70s. Look at my car now, it would f*ck any special GM model or concept C3 in the ass.

If I were you, I'd cruise the SRT forums and model your car after the dude with a 600hp SRT4. F*ck the ACR model.

[BlacknBoostn]

I don't model my car after anyone, I do my own research and come to my own conclusions. I prefer a smaller rim size (depending on purpose and application) and a more subtle look on my cars. I could have gone with a 16 or 17in on my last car, I opted for a 15in. closer to factory specifications for mileage and handling purposes. I just hate rims that are too big, no offense because I think you have a great looking vette, i just much prefer a smaller rim size. Better for auto crossing etc.

I'm on the SRT forums all day long and the fastest SRT in california is on 17in wheels haha. Of course he doesn't auto cross, and drags only. and for that he runs slicks on 15s haha.

It may seem silly to you, but it's not to me.