[enkeivette]

No no, higher protein/ lower fat/ carbs is always better. What I said specifically, you don't need 1 gram of protein for every pound that you weigh, everyday, unless you're bodybuilding/ hardcore working out. Because an average person does not need that much protein, and unused protein, like anything else, turns into fat.

So if you're 200lbs, but you're not very active, 3 steaks a day won't do you much good. Haha

[Shaolin Crane]

What i was saying that's pretty much what i said, i just have to go as detailed as possible since many of my students know nothing about eating right or exercising. However i disagreed with the body building weight lifting thing. If you're working out intensly you need protein, seems we were both arguing because of incomplete information on both our parts. I have though read conflicting data about excess protein, some say it turns to fat and some say the body just shits it out. Lately i've been reading more confirming the later. However its better to have too much protein then other things in your diet, the potential for it being used is greater.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by enkeivette

No no, higher protein/ lower fat/ carbs is always better. What I said specifically, you don't need 1 gram of protein for every pound that you weigh, everyday, unless you're bodybuilding/ hardcore working out. Because an average person does not need that much protein, and unused protein, like anything else, turns into fat.

So if you're 200lbs, but you're not very active, 3 steaks a day won't do you much good. Haha

Fat is NOT bad for general real world health. An excessively high protein diet is not only not needed, it's problematic because it is taxing on your liver to process out excess AIR. If you keep the protein moderate, and the carbs VERY low, meaning a high fat diet you can actually enter ketosis, a state your body metabolizes fat to ketones (rather than protein and carbs to glucose).

Saying ony 1 gram of protein per pound of weight (which is not a bad rule of thumb, less for most would be fine and a little more for heavy lifting, say in the range of 0.8 - 1.5 seems to work out) and keep carbs and fat as low as possible doesn't really tell you much. Protein is about 4 calories per gram, meaning for a 200 pound person 200 x 4 = 800. Assuming you're being even vaguely active at around 200 pounds hand have a moderately fast metabolism, you'll need around 2,500 calories a day to maintain your position, meaning 1,700 hundred calories need to come from somewhere else. This is where it gets pretty fascinating. About the only thing there is broad agreement on is that these should not be mostly simple carbs, after that for ratio between fats and carbs, there is not. Traditionally it has been that these should be complex carbs and less fat, and there is some sense in it perhaps for endurance athletes who have to build up their bodies capacity for storing glycogen and who also want to be basically light as possible. However, for most people a higher (animal) fat diet with activity is perfectly fine for health and strength. Among the two enormous benefits off the bat is that you won't be nearly as hungry all the time and probably more importantly you won't be having insulin peaks and valleys either. Beyond this more are beginning to say that fats are critical for proper neurobiological function, and many other internal processes. Like it or not, our bodies are optimized for eating what was available without processing for the majority of history and that means animals, nuts, fruits and vegetables. It means no refined grains and definitely not refined simple carbs. In other words a core of the modern Western diet is at odds with nature and hey look at all the physical dysfunction . . .

NOTE: Animal fats and oils from nuts and olives are fine. Hydrogenated oils are terrible!! In practical terms this means things like butter is fine, margarine is bad.

[Shaolin Crane]

IIRC it was the kidneys that took a beating not the liver. But any person who is moderatly active will benefit from the 1g per pound. When i was fighting in order to maintain my 205 weight i was eating 1.5-2g per pound. It was like a full time job, i just couldnt keep up with it and eventually dropped back to the 170-180lb i'm likely destined to be stuck in for some time.

A word to the wise, 90% of fast food, whether its marketed "healthy" or not is mostly hydroginated oils. Buy a mccrap mcflurry and leave it out in the sun, it will hold its consistency because of the 70% hydroginated chicken oil/fat. Fun stuff.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by Shaolin Crane

IIRC it was the kidneys that took a beating not the liver. But any person who is moderatly active will benefit from the 1g per pound. When i was fighting in order to maintain my 205 weight i was eating 1.5-2g per pound. It was like a full time job, i just couldnt keep up with it and eventually dropped back to the 170-180lb i'm likely destined to be stuck in for some time.

A word to the wise, 90% of fast food, whether its marketed "healthy" or not is mostly hydroginated oils. Buy a mccrap mcflurry and leave it out in the sun, it will hold its consistency because of the 70% hydroginated chicken oil/fat. Fun stuff.

Yeah I think 1g is a safe rule of thumb, 2g would be difficult. And yes, most fast food is a brew of shit. It's fine in small amounts, the human body is amazingly capable of handling bad things, but if you eat it regularly, you're in trouble, I'm probably around a couple times a month perhaps when it's the difference between eating something and going real hungry when on the road. And some is better than others. The chicken Fajita from Jack in the Box, for example, is better than what Mickey D's apparently thinks is a hamburger.

[enkeivette]

When I was at 220 grams of protein per day, lifting 6 days a week for about 2 hours every day, trying to maintain 215-220lbs, that was still too much, and I was still gaining fat.

If Arnold ate 1 gram per per pound, while on steroids even, and he makes you look like a thimble... that's enough. If you were eating more and not gaining weight its because all your slanty eyed hoo haa karate kept you super active and slim.

[Shaolin Crane]

That exactly it, different exercises, different needs. I have never been very large, mostly because of my very weird body proportions (ie my 80" reach) but this doesnt mean i wasnt strong. Muscle can be built in a variety of ways, body builders are buff but ask them to lift their leg above their head and hold it, or take constant repetative stikes to the bicep over and over. Regardless if you lift, or do dexterity training, you need lots and lots of protein.

I wasnt gaining size from the 2g per rule likely because of the above mention exercises, i can only image how much protein my muscle needed after hard body or dexterity training. I am also probably an exception since i'm a bottomless pit and have been thronw out of many a AYCE places. Ask leedom and John, they'll confirm as they saw it with their own eyes. And me being asked to leave