[DJ Dep]

Originally Posted by big_G

Bad education is bad parenting. All my kids could do the "3 r's" before kindergarten. No pre-k, no day care. My wife and were always helping/explaining homework to my 2 sons. My daughter, who is now 14, seldom gets any homework. Now it is harder to know if she is having difficulty. Seems the teachers now think homework is out-dated and not necessary. I don't see any kids carrying books/folders to/from school anymore either.

LOL...look for the backpacks. That's where the books are. Or are supposed to be. And that is causing all kinds of physical development problems for some kids. Some kids look like the Hunchback of Notre Dame walking up and back to school. The answer is to not give homework and carry less books. Save their posture and keep them dumb. I remember looking like Mr. Nerd carrying a big leather briefcase up and back to school. But it sure made my arms and hands strong

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by SeanPlunk

Decaf for you my friend.

I went to public schools and never once was I taught that parents aren't necessary. In fact, I remember one of the first social studies lessons being about the nuclear family in 3rd grade.

Let's be honest, you went to public school in a pretty decent part of O.C., not far from such landmarks as the Nixon Library. Need I say more. That's your frame of reference. I have a friend who teaches grade school in Compton. Guess what? It's rather different. Lots of young idealistic teachers who've been trained with child psychology and development models that DO NOT WORK in those environments. I asked him once, "so, did what you learn during your credential program work." His response, "No. What works is almost the exact opposite of what we were taught." This a whole other subject. You're both right depending on context.

Finally, my wife and I don't have kids yet, but the reality is that when we do we will both have to continue working. We don't live in a giant mansion, but the reality of life in Southern California is that it most times does require two incomes. If both parents are doing their job though, this doesn't have to be a bad thing. Plenty of perfectly normal kids have come out of homes where both parents worked.

It drives me nuts when people say "I have no choice." That's rarely the real story. They choose. They choose to live in nicer parts of OC with insuffecient single incomes to support that life style choice. That's fine, but it's their choice to make that exchange. I have members in my family that followed that pattern, and some who explicity chose to live in less Gucci areas and not buy non-essential items, precisely so mom could stay home. That was the higher value for them, and they made choices to support that priority. You WANT to live where you live. You WANT to have a play car. That's 100% fine. But it's not a reality beyond your control.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by big_G

Bad education is bad parenting. All my kids could do the "3 r's" before kindergarten. No pre-k, no day care. My wife and were always helping/explaining homework to my 2 sons. My daughter, who is now 14, seldom gets any homework. Now it is harder to know if she is having difficulty. Seems the teachers now think homework is out-dated and not necessary. I don't see any kids carrying books/folders to/from school anymore either.

That's intersting. Must be an area, class choice thing. My sister is a Sophomore in HS. She's fiercely competitive and chose to take as many Honors/AP as possible and is constantly doing homework and projects. I graduated H.S.

[BRUTAL64]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

I graduated H.S.

I didn't know that.

[DJ Dep]

Vettezuki: You are on the money with location being an important factor to education. Public schools in Chicago are nothing but gang education centers.
Believe it or not so many kids were being shot on the way to school that there was talk of buying bullet-proof vests for them.

Most parents who can afford it (and give a shit) send their kids to parochial schools to actually learn things. However, go out to the (white) suburbs of Chicago and you will find some of the top-rated high schools in the country. And they are public high schools.

I also agree about the choice thing. Well said!!

Dep

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by DJ Dep

Geez!!! The mods scared the poop out of me!!! I thought I was back at CF and a thread had been "sanitized!!
Sure glad to see parts of it were just relocated.

Not a chance. Sean, myself, and a secret 3rd person are the site owners. You wanna see a real blood bath get me and him going about politics or economics. The funny thing is we agree more than disaggree, but it still usually ends with me calling him a commie-pinko-hippie-tree-hugger.

I have to agee with big_G 100%. Schoolbooks have been so distorted that I get scared looking at them. If I had kids (which I don't), I'm pretty sure they would be home-schooled. Or at the very least, I would have to look at what the books in the school had in them and "re-educate" my kids at home to correct all the errors. Way too much is expected from schools nowadays. Besides an education, schools are expected to teach morals, sex education, and discipline. Yet if a teacher whacks a kid, the teacher will be in court the next day. That's why so many kids are being sent to Catholic schools for their education. If a parent isn't going to take an active part in raising their kid, I think they should send him to a military academy. They can instill what public schools can't. Not sure what you would do for a girl, though. A convent?

I don't kow the current state of K-12 text books. Though some of the superficial things I read scare the crap out of me. There seems to be (particlarly in CA) tremendendous social indoctrination going on.

I can really . . . REALLY go off on the history of public education in the US. But it is not a new thing by any means. Go back to Wilson (one of hte most frightening Presidents in American history) who quite openly said, "it is our intention to make them as unlike their fathers as possible." That was almost a 100 years ago. Heck the modern concept of public education in the US traces back directly to Frederick the Great, whose basic concept was to create nice little automatons to fill the ranks of the Prussian Army. Public education is intended to create machines for the State. There is little concept of expanding true free thinking, adverserial systems, skeptical inquiry, expanding individual talent, etc. ["Full inclusion" under no child left behind is taking this poorness to new lows.] Think of it, rows and rows of children being spoon fed what the State wants them to learn and graded on how well they regurgitate it. Does that sound like education? Sounds like brain washing to me.

I don't have children. But if I did I'd almost certainly home school through a young age, maybe up to middle school or so, then send them to a private school unless I was lucky enough to live in a very good public school district.

On a less "Brave New World" note. I went to a Catholic School, Military Academy, and Public Schools. Without question the principle difference between the public and private, was the nature of the relationship between myself and the teachers. It was far more personal at the private schools and was exemplified by an expectation to succeed. The pubic schools in my anecdotal experience weren't wholly careless, but somewhat more ambivalent for sure.

[Vettezuki]

I broke out the 427 King Cobra Posts to their own thread.

http://www.motorgen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1015

[Death Cult Aaronmageddon]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

I can really . . . REALLY go off on the history of public education in the US.

I just wanna argue with Vettezuki.

Would you rather go to the German model of an educational system? Where your educational future is decided before your even in your teens. In Germany there are a number of what we would call High Schools. However your performance in your formative years decides your placement in said schools. The highest of these is Gymnasium (not what you think of in English) and is for the most part your only way to a University. If I was judged by my grades up till the age of 13 I would be a garbage man and would not be going to college.

This being said, I also went to a private military school. I also graduated high school. And most importantly, I'm in my 11th year of college. Haha I crack me up

[DJ Dep]

Originally Posted by Death Cult Aaronmageddon

I just wanna argue with Vettezuki.

Would you rather go to the German model of an educational system? Where your educational future is decided before your even in your teens. In Germany there are a number of what we would call High Schools. However your performance in your formative years decides your placement in said schools. The highest of these is Gymnasium (not what you think of in English) and is for the most part your only way to a University. If I was judged by my grades up till the age of 13 I would be a garbage man and would not be going to college.

This being said, I also went to a private military school. I also graduated high school. And most importantly, I'm in my 11th year of college. Haha I crack me up

Actually, I WOULD like the German model here. I think you are one of the few exceptions to the rule. I see absolutely NO reason to try and force scumbum gang bangers and other riff-raff into our schools to "get an education" (they don't) and penalize the honest, hard-working kids who DO want an education. All in the name of "equality" and "giving everyone a fair chance". Horsecrap. The reason our academic levels are some of the lowest in the world can be directly connected to this misguided idea that as long as you expose scumbags to education some of it will "rub off" on them.
If parents and teachers and "educators" would just realize that not every kid is an Albert Einstein or child prodigy, and that some kids actually ARE just plain dumb, we would be far ahead of the game.

[94cobra69ss396]

Originally Posted by DJ Dep

Actually, I WOULD like the German model here. I think you are one of the few exceptions to the rule. I see absolutely NO reason to try and force scumbum gang bangers and other riff-raff into our schools to "get an education" (they don't) and penalize the honest, hard-working kids who DO want an education. All in the name of "equality" and "giving everyone a fair chance". Horsecrap. The reason our academic levels are some of the lowest in the world can be directly connected to this misguided idea that as long as you expose scumbags to education some of it will "rub off" on them.
If parents and teachers and "educators" would just realize that not every kid is an Albert Einstein or child prodigy, and that some kids actually ARE just plain dumb, we would be far ahead of the game.

I agree with you to a point. There are some kids who are smart but are just lazy and need to be pushed to succeed which I think is up to the parents and not the teachers. I was one of those kids. I was a great basketball player and could have gone on to play in college. However, I was lazy in high school (I never did homework) and my grades were just average so no scholarship for me. I haven't done badly for myself but I believe that is because I wasn't lazy when I went into the job market.