[BRUTAL64]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

Don't gots one on my motor. I think 2000 was the last year and mine is setup like a 2001.

Ok, if you ARE sure.


Try and get me the milling specs.

I'll get started in the morning on this. We'll get it figured out. No motor has EVER stumped me.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by BRUTAL64

We may want to lower that if possible. Computer uses temp to regulate a number of functions. Don't know if lowering the therm temp is possible on this year with out major Computer changes. Any one???

The computer only controls the temperatures at which the fans go on. The thermostat is obviously "mechanical".

Ok, I'll work with that, but it would HELP to have gasket thickness.

I'll see what I can do.

Ok, being milled is going to be a BIG factor. How much was milled? We really will need to know this. Or, is the 66 cc after milling?

That is my understanding, after milling size is 66cc.

What I was hoping for was the intake lobe center line.

Mmm, could be difficult, unless I can find the model and work back.

[BRUTAL64]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

The computer only controls the temperatures at which the fans go on. The thermostat is obviously "mechanical".



I'll see what I can do.




That is my understanding, after milling size is 66cc.




Mmm, could be difficult, unless I can find the model and work back.

I'll work with this. I'm doing this at work, but should have something by the afternoon.

[BRUTAL64]

Originally Posted by BRUTAL64

I'll work with this. I'm doing this at work, but should have something by the afternoon.

I did a quick run thru on this. Even with the tightest specs it only comes to 10.52 to 1. I will need to have the other figures I asked for this to get your "real" compression. But, at this point it appears compression is not the issue. At least with the specs I have so far.

I can get it to almost 11 to 1 if I really tighten the specs up. This is taking into account that everything is as you said and is at smallest possible clearences with a "tight" headgasket.

Just for fun--- 399 hp with 476 ft lbs of tq. This is what I got with the numbers you supplied me so far.

If you can get me some flow numbers on your ported heads, I can refine the HP numbers

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by BRUTAL64

I did a quick run thru on this. Even with the tightest specs it only comes to 10.52 to 1. I will need to have the other figures I asked for this to get your "real" compression. But, at this point it appears compression is not the issue. At least with the specs I have so far.

I can get it to almost 11 to 1 if I really tighten the specs up. This is taking into account that everything is as you said and is at smallest possible clearences with a "tight" headgasket.

Just for fun--- 399 hp with 476 ft lbs of tq. This is what I got with the numbers you supplied me so far.

If you can get me some flow numbers on your ported heads, I can refine the HP numbers

Well, I know what my HP/TQ numbers are in the real world. 391HP@6,000~ 360 something torqe@4,000~ to the wheels. You where there home skillet.

I've been digging through receipts and records and can't find much more detailed info. The head gasket came from the kit PN 12499218. The heads flow (on paper 305cfm). I believe the cam is a rebadged, (maybe modified?) Comp Cams G2 224/224 114. However, according to comp cams that's 580 lift and my receipt says 566. Technically the Cam is a Morgan Motorsports VS3 LS1 Cam indicated as 224/224 114LSA 566/566

The heads are Morgan Motorsports Stage 2x. They are based on 4.8L Truck heads. Apparently this was a common trick earlier this century, before AFR and others started coming out with their off the shelf units.

Anywho, the original owner ran a race fuel mix and agressive tune, safely got 432 in a C5. I run a conservative tune with Torco for safety and get 391 HP. On my tune, it will run ok on straight 91, but will ping under certain conditions.

Basically I want to know what I can do to go back for an aggressive tune without, or at least minimizing, having to raise the octane or do alcohol injection etc. Hence the question about the oil cooler. Carlos has given some suggestions. What you go old timer.

[BRUTAL64]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

Well, I know what my HP/TQ numbers are in the real world. 391HP@6,000~ 360 something torqe@4,000~ to the wheels. You where there home skillet.

I've been digging through receipts and records and can't find much more detailed info. The head gasket came from the kit PN 12499218. The heads flow (on paper 305cfm). I believe the cam is a rebadged, (maybe modified?) Comp Cams G2 224/224 114. However, according to comp cams that's 580 lift and my receipt says 566. Technically the Cam is a Morgan Motorsports VS3 LS1 Cam indicated as 224/224 114LSA 566/566

The heads are Morgan Motorsports Stage 2x. They are based on 4.8L Truck heads. Apparently this was a common trick earlier this century, before AFR and others started coming out with their off the shelf units.

Anywho, the original owner ran a race fuel mix and agressive tune, safely got 432 in a C5. I run a conservative tune with Torco for safety and get 391 HP. On my tune, it will run ok on straight 91, but will ping under certain conditions.

Basically I want to know what I can do to go back for an aggressive tune without, or at least minimizing, having to raise the octane or do alcohol injection etc. Hence the question about the oil cooler. Carlos has given some suggestions. What you go old timer.

Old timer!!!!!?????. Fine I see how it is.

First thing that bothers me here, is that fact (with info you gave me) you do not have enough mechincal compression to ping with an all alum engine and the cam you have.

So why does it ping? Cylinder temps causes ping. So first we have to lower cylinder temp. I would start with lowering the overall engine temp.

I would run a water spray into the engine to clean all carbon deposts out.
Yes, you can do that with engine running. We'll talk about that Sat night.


Second is fuel air ratio. A lean condition will run the cylinder temps up.

Next is a lower (cooler) plug range. I'd drop two ranges down to start.


Since you have no EGR valve-----


I really want to know if the full advance (given) is correct. This is VERY suspect from what I've seen so far.


Lastly pull the heads and we'll clean and slightly reshape the chambers and smooth the piston tops. Yes, I said "we". I don't work on other people's motors anymore. But for you, I may just come out of retirement, to do the chamber shape correctly. Not pull the heads

Finally quench--I've actually raised compression to close the quench to .045 to get the pinging to stop. This is VERY true. Quench is a VERY big deal.

I'm not saying your info is incorrect-but any minor error could lead us in the wrong direction.
It is important that the specs you gave me are correct. This is the key to any mods we do in the future. This is a disclaimer or sorts.

BTW:
Do you have any pictures of the chamber shape of your head?

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by BRUTAL64

Old timer!!!!!?????. Fine I see how it is.

I meant that with the deepest of respect yo. I grew up around old people, namely my pa who is 80 now. Not only do they say the darndest things, they know stuff from being around that I don't. That's what I meant.

First thing that bothers me here, is that fact (with info you gave me) you do not have enough mechincal compression to ping with an all alum engine and the cam you have.

That's why I'm quite suspicious about the real specs on the heads. All I know is that they were 4.8L truck heads that were milled and majorly ported. I don't know the mill specs.

So why does it ping? Cylinder temps causes ping. So first we have to lower cylinder temp. I would start with lowering the overall engine temp.

I would run a water spray into the engine to clean all carbon deposts out.
Yes, you can do that with engine running. We'll talk about that Sat night.

I've run Sea Foam (nasty solvent) into the running engine right through the intake. I've done this on some cars like my brothers Tacoma, and holy mother of god the crap that came out the tail pipe for like 30 minutes was amazing, and it absolutely ran better after. On the Vette, almost nothing. Given the nature of water and heat and the nature of aluminum, water spray scares me a bit, I ain't gonna lie.

Second is fuel air ratio. A lean condition will run the cylinder temps up.

I'll look for my sheet from the last pull. It's on Vettemod I think. It's totally in line with Gen III idealized A/F curves . . . according to the pointy heads that saw it. Certainly leaner than the olden days of carburated iron blocks Imma guess'n.

Next is a lower (cooler) plug range. I'd drop two ranges down to start.

What's two ranges lower than Iridium?

I really want to know if the full advance (given) is correct. This is VERY suspect from what I've seen so far.

I'll see if I can call the tuner and have him pull up the program. I just remember that he was fairly surprised that's all he could put in. I want to say he expected to put in like 32 degrees???

Lastly pull the heads and we'll clean and slightly reshape the chambers and smooth the piston tops. Yes, I said "we". I don't work on other people's motors anymore. But for you, I may just come out of retirement, to do the chamber shape correctly. Not pull the heads

This sounds great. I was planning to put headers on next year, maybe spring or so. If I'm going to pull the heads, I think I'd like to put the Sodium Filled valves I have in, change the rockers to some gucci ones and maybe even the lifters to those trick Caddy ones developed for their racing team. Poof, we're talking some scratch now. I'll pay you in all the beer and pizza you can handle . . . after working.

NOTE: The tuner offered to retune my Vette for free. To be honest, the place we used was having some screwy issues with its A/F equipment. It took all day and he said usually he can dial in an LSx in a couple hours and like 5 pulls. I did over 20. He said he got the best it could be at that time, but offered a free re-tune cuz he's a swell guy. When we dynoed at Dynamax, Richard said it had been well tuned so I don't suspect bad tuning, but something fundamental with the engine setup itself, namely higher than advertised compression . . . My point is that I wanted to do these other mods like headers, rockers and maybe lifters, before retuning. I'm also running Torco now, and that's ok. I wasn't running it during the original tune. I'd love to get to 450WHP on my N/A 346 so I can harass Sean and his pullied Cobra even more.

Finally quench--I've actually raised compression to close the quench to .045 to get the pinging to stop. This is VERY true. Quench is a VERY big deal.

Ruh-roh. Que es quench?

I'm not saying your info is incorrect-but any minor error could lead us in the wrong direction.
It is important that the specs you gave me are correct. This is the key to any mods we do in the future. This is a disclaimer or sorts.

Hell, I'm saying that it's at best incomplete.

Do you have any pictures of the chamber shape of your head?

I'll check but I don't think so. I remember they were gal durned big and rectangular. The assembler and installer of my swap (ls1z28) said they had gone absolutely as far as they could with the porting as I recall.

[BRUTAL64]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

I meant that with the deepest of respect yo. I grew up around old people, namely my pa who is 80 now. Not only do they say the darndest things, they know stuff from being around that I don't. That's what I meant.




That's why I'm quite suspicious about the real specs on the heads. All I know is that they were 4.8L truck heads that were milled and majorly ported. I don't know the mill specs.



I've run Sea Foam (nasty solvent) into the running engine right through the intake. I've done this on some cars like my brothers Tacoma, and holy mother of god the crap that came out the tail pipe for like 30 minutes was amazing, and it absolutely ran better after. On the Vette, almost nothing. Given the nature of water and heat and the nature of aluminum, water spray scares me a bit, I ain't gonna lie.




I'll look for my sheet from the last pull. It's on Vettemod I think. It's totally in line with Gen III idealized A/F curves . . . according to the pointy heads that saw it. Certainly leaner than the olden days of carburated iron blocks Imma guess'n.



What's two ranges lower than Iridium?





I'll see if I can call the tuner and have him pull up the program. I just remember that he was fairly surprised that's all he could put in. I want to say he expected to put in like 32 degrees???




This sounds great. I was planning to put headers on next year, maybe spring or so. If I'm going to pull the heads, I think I'd like to put the Sodium Filled valves I have in, change the rockers to some gucci ones and maybe even the lifters to those trick Caddy ones developed for their racing team. Poof, we're talking some scratch now. I'll pay you in all the beer and pizza you can handle . . . after working.

NOTE: The tuner offered to retune my Vette for free. To be honest, the place we used was having some screwy issues with its A/F equipment. It took all day and he said usually he can dial in an LSx in a couple hours and like 5 pulls. I did over 20. He said he got the best it could be at that time, but offered a free re-tune cuz he's a swell guy. When we dynoed at Dynamax, Richard said it had been well tuned so I don't suspect bad tuning, but something fundamental with the engine setup itself, namely higher than advertised compression . . . My point is that I wanted to do these other mods like headers, rockers and maybe lifters, before retuning. I'm also running Torco now, and that's ok. I wasn't running it during the original tune. I'd love to get to 450WHP on my N/A 346 so I can harass Sean and his pullied Cobra even more.



Ruh-roh. Que es quench?




Hell, I'm saying that it's at best incomplete.




I'll check but I don't think so. I remember they were gal durned big and rectangular. The assembler and installer of my swap (ls1z28) said they had gone absolutely as far as they could with the porting as I recall.

Quench= is the distance between the top of the piston to flat portion of the head. If it is too wide you will get detonation. .045 is considered optimum, but I have .052 and I have NO issues.

I was hoping to get a picture of the CHAMBER not the ports.



You are going to be there Sat nite? We could converse then.


If you ever compare me to old people again.................you get the picture.

[Vettezuki]

Originally Posted by BRUTAL64

Quench= is the distance between the top of the piston to flat portion of the head. If it is too wide you will get detonation. .045 is considered optimum, but I have .052 and I have NO issues.

I was hoping to get a pciture of the CHAMBER not the ports.



You are going to be there Sat nite? We could converse then.


If you ever compare me to old people again.................you get the picture.

See you tomorrow. I'm trying suck Jeff and some of the other local Vettemod/DC boys in.

[BRUTAL64]

Originally Posted by Vettezuki

See you tomorrow. I'm trying suck Jeff and some of the other local Vettemod/DC boys in.

Just tell them I'm going to be there. Then they won't come for sure.