RX-Snake: Transmission
 

joedls, or ayone else:

What are the ratios in the Top Loader:

1st ?
2nd ?
3rd ?
4th 1:1

I have a great spreadsheet for plugging this stuff into so you know what your mph/rpm curves are. I would really like to carefully consider the whole system for optimization, from engine through trans to axle and tire size

Depends on whether it's a close ratio or wide ratio. I'm not sure which one yours is.

Wide ratio: 2.78 1.93 1.36 1 2.78 reverse
Close ratio: 2.32 1.69 1.29 1 2.32 reverse

Here is a link to help you id the tranny to determine if it is a close or wide ratio: http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/idchart1.htm

Here's what the trans mission is identified as:
HEH-P 01526
1964 Mustang 289 wide ratio 25-spline
8/20/64 to 12/30/64

I've always prefered Wide rations over Close for the street. Now, on a Drag car the % of drop between gears should be ABOUT 19% per gear ( if my brain is working right ). Now that is what we used in the Seventies.

What is the current diff gear ration on the RX?

The Wide Ratio will be fine in most cases. We can make it work. We can not do better --as far as strenght for a 4 speed-- than that Top Loader.:thumbs_up:

Some poor anal restoration guy is looking for that trans for his 64 Mustang.:smack:

Yeah, and he might be willing to pay a stupid price for it. Though I don't know about the 289 model. It's the 427s that go for big bucks.

According to JOe the ratios are:
Wide ratio: 2.78 1.93 1.36 1 2.78 reverse

See the engine thread. I posted a graph of mph:rpm assuming this gear box, 255/60x15 tires and a 3.73 rear end, which I *think* is what's in there now, but I need to check.

I was offered $800 for that tranny from a guy that just wanted a toploader. It would be worth more to a guy that is looking for a correct date coded tranny.

$800.00??????? Damn, you must really LOVE Ben and the boys.:hail:

Nah, they're too damn ugly for me. I just wanna drive the car and I couldn't let them put a SBC in that car. :rolling:

Works for me. You going to be there Sat at Ricks????

Not sure yet. I'd like to go if I can get away. If I do, I'll drive my 07. Too cold for the convertible.

So, this trans which was for a 289, is going to hold up to repeated 400HP+ sticky tire launches? I'm not going to feel bad when the Mazda rear end goes boom, but I'd feel a little bad to grenade a vintage part.

Probably the weakest link is the output shaft. If it hasn't been converted to a 28 spline, then it probably should. Other than that, I don't think you can hurt it. And if you do, they're supposedly pretty easy to work on. I have never done transmission work myself, so I don't have any firsthand knowledge.

Oh, I know about that. :sm_up_there:

This is a little history of the Toploader from David Kee's website:



The Ford Toploader Transmission was introduced in 1964 to replace the Borg Warner T-10. This is the super-tough transmission built by Ford Engineers to stand up to just about anything demanded from it.

Internal parts of the Toploader are assembled through the top of the case instead of through a side cover, thus the name "Toploader." This design is actually stronger than a 4-speed box with a side cover. The shifter rails are mounted in bosses that are cast into the box itself, leaving the only function for the top cover to keep the lube inside.

The Toploader 4-speed transmission is of the fully synchronized type with all gears except the reverse sliding gear being in constant mesh. All forward-speed changes are accomplished with synchronizer sleeves instead of sliding gears. The synchronizers will enable quicker shifts, greatly reduce gear clash, and permit down-shifting into any forward-speed gear while the car is moving. All forward-speed gears in the transmission are the helical-type; however, the reverse sliding gear and the exterior of the first and second-speed synchronizer sleeve are spur-type gears.

The Toploader was used in production from 1964 to 1973 in almost every model Ford car and a few foreign cars.

A 1-1/16" input shaft was used in motors from the 200 c.i. to the 390 c.i. while the 427, 428 and 429 were available only with close ratio gears. The 1-1/16" input transmissions are available in both close and wide gear ratios.

The gear box was built in 3 case lengths. The 1964-65 Fairlane, T.V.R., Griffith, and Sunbeam Tiger case is 25-1/2" long. The AC Cobra with 427 and 428, all Mustangs, Falcons, Mavericks, Cougars, 1966-67 Fairlanes and Comets use 24 " transmissions, while all full size cars and the 428, 429 Cyclone and Torino use the 27" box. The 1964 Toploader used a small 4 hole maincase with the small O.D. bearing retainer. All 1965-73 cases were wide 8 hole cases with the large O.D. bearing retainer.

In 1964 and early 1965 a few transmissions used a 25 spline output shaft which proved to be defective. These were quickly dropped from production. Normally all motors 200 c.i. to 390 c.i. use the 28 spline output shaft. All 427, 428 and 429 motors use the 31 spline output shaft. There are a few exceptions to the above information. The toploader was produced in 133 different models.

We have the 28 spline.

"as far as strenght for a 4 speed-- you can not do better than that Top Loader".

That's what I said the other day.:sm_up_there:

Great news!!! I'd run it the way it is. I had no problems shifting that tranny before I pulled it from my convertible.

Say Joe, you wouldn't happen to have the shifter for this ting would ya?

Nope. Long gone.

Sequential Shifter
 

Oky doky, this is the kind of thing where some extra dough from the outside would make something at a higher level possible.

If we buy a new, basic Hurst shifter and install kit, it's about $300. However, there is a pretty slick sequential shifter setup for the Top Loader. Guess what? It's more. Like $700. But banging through gears sequentially with just a push or pull would be pretty awesome. Pretty much like this guy. :drive:

Check it out:
http://www.renagate.com/

Update
 

It looks like we're going to have a sponsorship that will allow us to use this shifter. Details to come shortly once worked out. :getdown:

So, you're going BIG TIME?:rolleyes:

In a very small way. :laugh:

Tiny steps.;)

I got the trans cross member done tonight but I hope it will work. Joe, can you tell me if this is how the trans lines up with the shifter hole on your Mustang? I bolted the engine and trans together and set them in the car then tried to line them up using the SBC/T5 cross members as a guide. I set the engine as far back as I could so hopefully it will all work well.

This is a picture looking down through the shifter hole in the floor.


Rear view of the cross member.


Another angle.


Passenger side of cross member.


Drivers side.


Tailshaft looking up.


Drivers side of trans.


Drivers side of engine.


Passenger side of engine.

Looking at the way these shifter attach to that plate, the stick ain't coming up through the hole. But never fear, we have hole expanding technology!

I centered the trans in the transmission tunnel. If the trans were a T5 the shifter bolt to the top of the trans. Do we know if the shift is off to the side on the Top Loader or does it bolt to the side and end up above the trans center on top? I can offset the trans to the passenger side but I would also have to offset the engine as well.

I have a T5 in my 65 Mustang and an automatic in the 68. To tell you the truth, I can't remember how the toploader lined up. It was too long ago, but I'm pretty sure it is centered in the tunnel. And actually that hole doesn't appear to be that far off. I think you'd have to open it up a little, but not much. Here's a pic of a shifter for a toploader on a 66 Mustang.

See post 21 in this thread for the way the shifter will mount.

It's official
 

We've concluded an agreement with Hall Fabrication and Racing who will provide us with a Renagate Sequential shifter for Ford Top Loader.

:bigthumbsup:

Renagate shifter received.

Clutch balancing
 

Despite lean times I've manage to rustle up some extra side work.

I know when I bought my McLeodd clutch/flywheel assembly for the Vette it was advertised as "balanced."

Thanks to Joe, we have a clutch w/Pressure plate for the Toploader and it looks in ok condition. We don't have a flywheel. If I go into McLeodd (local) and ask for a balanced steel flywheel to the clutch bits I hand them, are they going to laugh hysterically? I don't see what exactly they would balance . . . unlike an internal rotating assembly.

If George is still there, talk to him. Great guy. I've been using Mcleod since 78. I ONCE went to another company and that will NEVER happen again. Just go to the back and ask for George.:drink:

Make sure you get a 50 oz flywheel.

SFI approved.:thumbs_up:

We're scheduled to get this one when the dough flow opens up again

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MCL-463100-50/

Don't know if its SFI approved or not, have to check.

It is SFI 1.1 approved.

Excellent. I like my feet.:sm_laughing: