Need feedback on engine choices
Hi , I'm Adams dad. I am looking to buy an engine to replace the 351 in my 72 Mach. I am looking at two engines. Would appreciate any advice or suggestions from the motorgen members. My two choices are:
1.Rebuilt 429, no intake 2. Used 460 out of Lincoln These sales end in the next couple of days so I would appreciate feedback as soon as possible. Thanks ________________ Andy 1972 Mustang Mach 1 |
Finally got my dad on here. Help him out guys. Some day when the car is running better I am going to drag him to the meets and cruises.
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How do you intend to use the engine when complete? What is your approximate budget for FINISHED and installed engine? The first one above looks pretty built at an appealing price, but the cam looks pretty large. That engine is going to lope fairly hard at lower revs I think. It would want to be revved to make it's power. Think screamer. The second one is going to have an unknown number of issues and therefore costs to finish, not to mention time. I have a friend who used exactly this block as the basis for his Cobra kit and it was an absolute beast when completed. For your reference, you might want to check Ford Performance Solutions. They're only about 10 miles from you and sell high performance ready to drop motors. http://www.f-p-s.com/ I'm sure Ron will be on here in no time will give you a lot more usable info. |
You know my thoughts on this. I've done a few 71 - 73 stangs with 429s. I like this engine combo in a light vehicle. 429s will rev to 7,000 rpm with big cam -no problem.
Low end torque is not brutal:sm_laughing:, The 460 is a good motor also. It has a longer stroke than the 429 and the same bore. Either will work well. 460 has brutal:sm_laughing: low end torque. It's not a bad thing --just hard on tires. Remember the 71-73 mustangs came with 429s.:) I have a set of early 429 close cambered heads and 4 bl intake at my shop that I have had for 25+ years.:judge: Just cause closed chamber is the best and are very hard to come by. Being either are early 70s style it comes to the heads. If either one has the small chambers then it's a toss up. If one is open chamber and one is closed chamber, the closed chamber is the one to get. Remember our little talk about FORD heads at the park? |
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You forgot about me--did you??:mad::nutkick: |
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The 429 looks like a better choice to me. |
Joel is right the cam is small. I looked it up on Summit's website and it only has 204 in./214 ex. @ .050 with a 112 LSA. In a 429 it will probably have a smooth idle with a ton of low end torque. The operating range shows 1500-4000 so it will only pull to about 5000 which will let the engine live a long time.
I don't know much about BBF and have never worked on them but if I were buying one of these I would definately go with the 429. Then pick up a dual plane intake for it. The Weiand Stealth model 8012 is the least expensive on Summit for just under $200. |
My dad can afford either choice. I think he is trying to stay $3K or under for the engine. His stang will be a weekend cruiser with the occasional spanking of his kid and his big mouth (me). :crutches: He wants something fairly mild, if a 429 or 460 can be called mild. He is not looking for a lopy cammed motor. He wants something with a little lope at idle and something that can scare the neighbors when stomped on. Originally he was thinking about 400 HP/TQ with his 351, but then started thinking what would a 429/460 be like? Personally I like his thinking.
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Can we call it on the mild side of larger, or bigger side of mild? ;) It's certainly bigger than any OEM cam I can think of. An interesting question might be, what was the size(s) of the original Mach1 cam? You're right though it's not a screamer, but 112 LSA is going to lope a bit. Whether that's ok for regular street driving is a matter of personal taste. |
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Do you know how big the original M1 cams were? |
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Maybe someone has already done this? Even though I'm not a fan of Edelbrock Performer (RPM is better) it should be low enough to fit in Mustang. But again, measure block to hood height. |
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Good low end street cam. |
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FTR, if the choice were between these two motors, I'd go with the 429. |
Seller said the pistons, rods, and crank are stock Ford parts.
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Would I be safe in calling the 429 option a "fairly" tame street motor?
I am assuming that this motor would be over 450HP and about 500 ft/lb? |
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Now let's see what the guys who know what they're talking about say. :) |
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I forget BB torque is so stout. |
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Edit: I see this has already been covered. Just disregard what I said. |
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So now it's my fault?????:leaving: |
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A stock 429 in a 1970 Mach 1 made 370 bhp and 450 lbs-ft of torque. They were 11.3:1 compression. |
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My 429 runs great on 91 octane. The bigger the cam the better the 11.1 works. A cam with .050 duration of about 235 degrees is a good start for the 429. Try to keep the lift down for a street engine. Guide wear is bad with a very high lift cam.:bigthumbsup: |
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Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet engines were not tame. When tuned correctly they were low 12s to high 11s in the Torino. |
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You run about 10 degrees more exhaust duration because of the port. ANY aftermarket head will be better than stock.:drink: |
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Engine choices
Thanks to all for your input. I think the majority opinion is the 429, which is what I was leaning to. And yes, the conversations in the park steered me toward the 429.
I' m probably looking for something in the mid 400s for hp and 500s for trq. I want something that will idle decent but have a little lope. Thanks again guys. |
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"What Ford did was study the BBC engine and correct all the problems."
"Any aftermarket heads are better than stock." Is it just me, or does this sound....................wierd?:pot_stir: |
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It's too hard to get the Cobra Jet heads so aftermarket is the way to go over the regular stock type head. I can port the BBF head to help flow, but you gain so much more with aftermarket heads. Next time I see you I'll explain what FORD did to improve over the BBC. It was all minor stuff . Unfortunately FORD improved on BBC but when it came to the exhaust port they kind of.....well........missed it some. Also, the STOCK FORD rods can be thought of as a little weak.:sm_up_there: With the right heads a BBF will match or (sometimes) exceed a BBC in power-- everything else being equal. Of course you can argue the point. :judge: It is still cheaper to build a BBC than a BBF.:drink: |
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Since the stock 1970 429 is 360/370 hp and up to 485 ft lbs, getting to 450 hp and around 500 ft lbs is not that difficult with the right cam, exhaust and intake. This can be done with the stock heads. :drink: |
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If you plan to do heads and cam, I'd go with the 460. If you plan to run the stock heads, I'd go for the motor that make more hp stock (which sounds like it's prob the 429). |
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The bore is larger than a 454 BBC (actually the same on both the 460 and 429) so you can put bigger valves in the BBF than the BBC. :pot_stir: |
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