Ford Raptor not just a lifted Truck!
 

Lets see Chevy, Dodge, Toyota, or Honda put one of their trucks out there like this.

Go FORD!!!

http://www.race-dezert.com/home/ford...011-14108.html

I think the Raptor is prettier, but I'd trust a Duramax diesel and an Allison trans in a 4x4 Silverado to go the long haul over any Ford truck, any day.

Not saying the Raptor isn't a great truck, I'm sure it is. But Chrysler and GM both make worthy trucks aswell, whether they sponsor a truck in your race league of choice or not.

Ford put that new engine through a lot of performance testing along with their normal testing. I'd trust it.

Totally different categories. The Raptor is a "sports" truck, I mean it's dervived from racing competition, not built for working (i.e., towing, hauling.)

For 50k I'd buy a silverado and put 28k on mods for it and it would be top that any day.

I am saying that no other auto manufacturer out there has a Truck that could do what the Raptor does in "stock" form. Sure buy a Silverado for $35K and drop another $10K into is to get it to be as good or possibly better than the Raptor, but you can not drive a Chevy truck off the lot drop a cage in it and do what this truck does.

So you are saying that You could drive a Chevy Duramax 4x4 off the lot drop a cage in it and compete as well as the Raptor?

Well if I had that kind of money to bust a nut on a truck, sure I would buy a raptor. But it doesn't fit in the mold that I would need. I like the duramax/allison but the Raptor would kill any other stock truck off road. There was a bad ass episode of Top Gear on the history channel where Tanner Foust was killing the desert in one, I was waiting for it to break apart and it never did... props to Ford.

The best off the showroom off-road truck period. I drove it over at Barrett Jackson Las Vegas. I was surprised how soft the suspension was. I guess with all that travel, the suspension does not have to be so stiff.

Bob

Sport truck? The lightning is a sport truck, the raptor isn't. Performer? Well it isn't a 2wd truck, therefore it's too heavy to be a jump worthy performer, like the trophy trucks. And as far as being a practical truck to tow and haul, well it's not a diesel. So Duramax and Cummins and Powerstrokes win. So what good is it really? It's a Glamis cruiser. What else? Name a practical purpose for it.

Once again, great truck, top of its genre sure. But what genre? And who cares about that genre? No one in here has bought one... :judge: What would you, Leedom, do with this truck personally, that your Mustang or Chuck's diesel couldn't do better?

"Sport" as in "Autosports". Say, Baja racing for exmample, which has several decades of fierce . . . wait for it . . . wait for it. . . competition. The Raptor is clearly and intentionally derived from that form of AUTOSPORTS. The Lightning? Let's take the muscle car idea and put it in a truck. Fine. But calling the Raptor not a Sport Truck belies a substantial blind spot or simple bias IMO.

Fair enough observation. But as far as stock trucks go it seems to be pretty stout for very serious off roading including jumping. Clearly no competition.

It's not intended to be practical. Tell the truth and shame the Devil, how practical is a Vette in day to day life? Not much. A TINY fraction of owners ever get anywhere near a track of any kind. This is all about perceived value and "posing".

Fair enough. I wonder what the real vs. projected sales are?

Baja racing is not an argument, that is exactly why I brought up the AWD vs 2 wheel drive thing. Anyone seriously interested in owning a dezert race worthy truck following that genre of racing will go 2 wheel drive.

Notice anything missing? You just can't get enough travel out of a 4 wheel drive setup, it's too heavy, and for that sport, it is unnecessary.



Way better platform than the raptor for the genre you are talking about:



Not even a theoretical response to that one? :) :judge: As far at the vette being practical, well um, have you even heard of a Motorgen cruise? Piston aside, I could go drive my vette right now down the canyon and enjoy it. Chuck can tow my boat and do some four wheeling in the housing development tracts when it rains (don't ask how I got that idea). What can the raptor do right now? Drive 4 hours out to Glamis and cruise around quickly? Not as quickly as a 2 wheel drive truck bought for the same purpose.

I've given this issue a lot of thought. Before I bought the Jeep I was trying to decide whether I should pick up an AWD one or a 2 wheel drive one (which would have had less miles). With the two wheel drive one, I could build some extended arms, an engine cage and get some coilovers for it and be able to race it offroad. But I thought about it, thinking realistically, how often am I going to be able to jump it? Not very. And Glamis is no longer a regular thing for me. But offroading and towing a boat up a wet ramp would be. So the decision was clear AWD. So now that were looking at an AWD work truck, well maybe the Raptor is better than my Jeep (probably not because I doubt it has 4 low and a LSD front and center diff also), but Chucks diesel is certainly, without question better.

Additionally, if we're talking about 4 wheeling, the Jeep Wrangler is a better platform than the Raptor. So I ask again: Of what use is the Raptor? In what practical field is it the best? Or is it a sideways hat bro truck for Glamis cruising?

I want to emphasize one more time, the Raptor is a bad ass truck, and I would be proud to own one. But it is top of nothing, and it CERTAINLY has worthy competition from GM and Chrysler in all genres.

Ford is great at building awesome dual purpose cruiser vehicles. Look at the Mustang, a better race car than the Vette? Obviously not. But the Vette can't hold your whole family. Is the Raptor better than the Wrangler for four wheeling? No, but it's better for jumping. Is the Raptor better than a 2wd F150 with a factory lift for jumping? No, but it won't get stuck! It may be the best all around, but it doesn't take the cake anywhere.

What Ford should really do is build a lighter 2wd Raptor for the Baja crowd. I would give it the edge in that genre for a factory vehicle.

It's painful to say this. But you're basically right. :(

What the fuck? :boggled: Am I still sleeping?

I was gonna get picky on several details but it would have been more arguing semantics and nuance rather than fundamentals and I'm just not in the mood; so you get off easy . . . this time.

Adam's not right. If you think a stock 2wd F150 with it's 6 inches of suspension travel can come any where near a Raptor with it's 11.2 inches of front suspension travel and 13.4 inches of rear suspension travel you're crazy. The truck was specifically designed for running across the desert fast. Ford spent a lot of time working with companies like Fox Racing Shox to develop and tune the suspension to handle woops and jumps. There is not another factory truck on the market that can touch it in the area it was designed for.

You keep comparing it to a Wrangler but they are designed for different things. Have you ever gone out to the desert to prerun? Try taking a Wrangler out to Lucerne to prerun. They handle like crap over woops because of the limited suspension travel and short wheelbase. They're close in wheelbase to my brothers FJ and my Explorer leaves his FJ in the dust over the woops with only 10 inches of front travel and 11.5 rear travel and crappy shocks that fade after about 10-15 minutes. A stock Raptor would leave me in the dust.

Now even though it's designed for running fast over woops it's still a capable 4x4. It has 4.10 gears, electronic rear locker and a 2.64:1 low range along with the already mentioned suspension travel. It won't do as well in the rocks or tight trails as a Wrangler will but it will do fine on most of the trails that you would run a stock Wrangler through hear in So Cal.

Oh, and it also has a tow rating of 6000lbs and a tow mode for the transmission. Granted, that's not much but it's better than your Neon and enough to tow your boat.

I'd be more than happy if my Explorer would wheel like it does now and handle like a Raptor through the woops and jumps.

I don't think he ever said stock to stock. He said platform and concept, and design consistency to that concept. The Raptor is a mix of ideas in this regards on this I think he's basically right. Nor did he ever say it was a POS. But if a desert racer, tower, or wheeler is what you're after, $50k and a different starting point is a better choice. If what want a factory blend of the things a Raptor offers, there's nothing like it; that's clear. I've seen a grand total of one on the road, so I wonder if they missed the mark with demographic targeting. :huh:

Yes he did. I think you guys are missing the point. It's like someone saying why would you spend $150,000 on a Ferrari when you can make a Vette do the same thing for less money. Maybe they don't want to take the time it takes to design and build a prerunner. Take that picture of the truck Adam posted. Do you really think that truck has less than $50,000 in it?

Also, I've seen probably 10-15 of them running around so I think Ford hit their mark.

Fair enough. Ron, Adam, have at it. :)

I said factory lift option, much more than 6" of travel, and I also said platform to platform. You can buy a factory lifted F150 with a warranty that will out jump a Raptor. Adam is right.

Also, according to this source, sales are just peachy.

You didn't read my post carefully enough. I said that Wranglers are better for 4 wheeling (rock crawling) but Raptors are better for jumping (and woops)!

http://www.trucktrend.com/features/n...ass/index.html
Doesnt take the cake for anything?
3rd in the pro offroad truck class, off the lot save for required class modifications like lights, window nets, spare tire etc, no touches to the suspension or drivetrain, pretty fuckin impressive to me

Yeah, that's impressive. Ok, I've changed my mind, let's pile on eneki! :lmfao:

25k for a brand new not loaded silverado or f150 25k in suspension and supercharger = better truck any day. Okay off the lot 50k it is a great truck and Tanner drove the shit out of it and it was pretty bad ass also that was the Hennessey version (Velociraptor). I will give it credit for off road off the lot but dollar for dollar it is not the best option.

There is no such thing as a factory lift kit. Sure, there are dealer installed lift kits but those consist of drop brackets for the front and lift blocks for the rear. Go ahead and buy a new Silverado here's one http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false. Oh wait, that's $51,514 and you haven't even had the dealer add the lift kit. Well, then you'll need new rims and tires to go with it because those stock ones will just look silly. Now you've spent $60,000 just to have a lifted truck with the same 6 inches of travel. Why do you think I did a solid axle swap on the Explorer. I didn't just want the truck higher, I wanted more suspension travel.

Who says 4 wheeling has to be in the rocks. I'd say 75% of the wheeling I do isn't rock crawling. Go back and watch the video of the Motorgen offroad run and let me know how much time we spent rock crawling. Maybe I just don't really go 4 wheeling. A Raptor would be a great truck for that 75% of the time.

I am thinking something like this with the difference in upgrades.

Now go ahead and find a suspension system for it that you think can compete with the Raptor's in the desert. Then go ahead and try to get the power the Raptor has out of that 6 cylinder.

I'd buy this Long Travel Kit and this truck and 7k on a supercharger, rebuild motor and trans and still have 25k in my pocket for body paint cage wheels etc.

or this truck I think would be better to tear apart.

Would you really put a supercharger up against the raptor for reliability in desert heat conditions? Not likely.

Okay no SC, crate LS7 Done.

Whats a crate LS7, transmission, wiring assembly, rear end, swap parts going to cost?

Easy $20k I'd guess.

You could do a home brew H&C LS3 for easily that much power (more really) for a hell of a lot less money though.

FTR, except just for fun, it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense comparing stock to non-stock. You just end up with an endless stream of "but then you could spend X for YZ." It's a game we've all played (and play) but at that point we're sort of dancing in circles.

Wow. I did not see this thread blowing up like this. When I started this thread evidential I should have put more perimeters on the statement.

I was not saying that you could not buy a piece of shit truck and drop $30K into it and spank a Raptor. I was referring to the fact that someone drove a STOCK truck off a lot and dropped the safety equipment in it that was required and basically racing it in a competition and can hang in there. Name a truck right now from the mainstream auto manufacturers that can do this.

I am not saying break down every singular aspect of this truck and say well this can do this one thing better. That is a bullshit argument for what I posted and what the article was about. You are ignoring that.

I know I could go buy a Duramax and out tow that thing. No shit. That is what the Diesel it made for. Yes Chuck could take his Truck out to Glamis and have fun, hell I could take my truck out there too but that does not say it compares to the Raptor's off-road abilities.

No it won't. Try that "Lift kit" and see how long it would last and how your body would feel after a day in the jumps compared to the raptor. I will supply the ice packs for you.

The thought that nobody would drive that thing out in the desert because it is a 4WD is ridiculous. Can you get more travel out of a 2WD? Yes, but come on... find a stock truck that pulls more travel.

The Raptor is a truck that can be driven daily on the street and be comfortable to do so. At the same time is can handle the monthly trips for Joe Smith to home depot like a normal truck. It can town the quads, dirt bikes, sand rails out to Glamis just like other trucks. The big difference is that this truck will beat the living crap out of any other truck in the desert stock for stock. This truck was not built to be a trail rig, though I am sure it is more than capable for that type of fun as well. It was built to blast out in the desert and I have not seen an article that says it can not do that and do that is can not do it better than any other stock truck out there.

There is no truck out there on the market now that is stock (ie: without a aftermarket lift kit) that even comes close the this trucks abilities as a whole.

This is a great point. If memory serves me correctly, and it hardly ever does, Adam called me out when I said I would take the new mustang over the M3 and just invest that money I saved buying the Stang to make it faster than the M3 stating that was not a fair comparison.

Chuck, you buy a comparably equipped NEW Silverado and slap your Long Travel kit on it, good luck finding one and if you have one specially made your will probably be spending about $8-10K doing so, then add your new rims and tires, fiberglass fenders and engine power adders (to com up to the 411hp and 435lb the Raptor 6.2 has) and let me know what your final tally would be. Oh and then tell me how long you think your truck would last before you have to take it to the dealer for repairs on all that stuff that they do not cover.