It's about the money sucka
This is all about the money. My old Monte carlo and Mustang both felt like they had more than what was streetable with 350-430 rwhp. Both cars sucked. The vette is in the mid fives and very streetable. I can drive off in second or third off idle with no throttle.
Stay in school!:thumbs_up: |
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Oh, and it's not all about the money. I don't make a lot but I build my own and I have an 11 second dily driver and a 10 second fun car.
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I'm afraid the era of affordably tweaking out cars may be winding down. Parts themselves are considerably more expensive (I'm always stunned by what the old timers say they used to pay for stuff, and that's accounting for what people used to make), people have less discretionary income for a variety of reasons, and the next generation of cars (ODBIII) are going to be radically more difficult to do performance modifications on. Sure, there will always be big dollar kits and mods, but the "whack it with a hammer" days are closing I think. |
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It is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. The your cars are fast because of slicks and the effort you put into them. But we are talking horsepower not timeslips. There are big horsepower cars that are driven daily. <1000 is just not big power. |
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Those are nice motors that are built to make "ok" power for a very limited period of time. Road racing is more expensive. Shit has to handle heat soak and and extended use. Your friends motor is nice, but how long do you think it will last on a road course? Yes, I spent a lot of money for a 550 rwhp motor. I spent a lot of money on a motor that will last years racing. Can the motor handle more power?? Yes for the same money I could have gone with higher compression and a much more aggressive cam. But that would be self defeating. I am limited by the power to weight limits on TTU. I'm there with a motor that will last. Aren't you getting ready to start racing Ron????? Get ready it get's expensive with rules buddy. |
Carlos, racing the Chevelle isn't anything new for me, just racing in the PSCA is. I've been racing on this engine since 7/22/05. So I'm pretty sure I did an okay job of putting it together.
I built the current engine in the Cobra back in August of 2005 and it has over 70,000 miles on it. I did go through a set of Felpro head gaskets though and moved up to their MLS ones and I've had to fix little things here and there such as oil leaks and so forth but the long block is still the same. So I'd say I did an okay job on it as well. Do I think both of my engines would survive in a road race car? Yes, I do. As you already know I run track days with the Cobra and the temp never goes above the R in NORMAL (about 190) and that's without an aftercooler for the supercharger. It's all about keeping the rpms under control. I guess we'll also find out if I can build an engine for road racing as well since that's what I'm doing with my '83 Camaro. It'll have a 355 that should make about 460 at the flywheel with 9:1 compression, a hydraulic flat tappet cam and cast iron heads. |
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I wouldn't compare it to your LS motor as far as reliability, but it's no Indy motor. It's also been alive since 2005 and it shows almost no wear internally. And "ok" power? ...You must not be talking about my motor. Baddass, sub 1K hp is not big power? ...C'mon, be real. I know you're Mr. experienced baddass racer guy, but 500hp is big power, 700hp is really big power and 900hp is lunacy, I don't care who you are. |
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<1K is big power, but this thread is about max streetable power. The devil is in the details (you'll learn this when you start your second semester of law school), Not what you can do on a budget. The fact is you can buy a 100% production car with >1khp. DOZENS of tuners can build streetable 1khp+ motors. There are all reliable and fucking costly. Heffners Hennasy LG motorsports EVOMs EVO GMG Barbus VDP RPS Titan Norris Shelby supercars a bunch of Japanese shit I can't spell. Here is a challenge. Ron I never said that you couldn't build a 1khp motor (even though you feel challenged somehow), but I bet you can't do it for less than $10K reliably. |
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- Define your parameters of what's allowable (displacement, induction, NOS, etc.) - Define your parameters of what would constitute reliable. Th point of my original post was perhaps a bit too general. Here's my take. A well sorted car in the low 500s to the wheels, think Vette, Cobra, etc. can still have all these parameters: - affordable(ish) - reliable - comfortable - somehow acceptable mpg - usable, that is you can get on it from time to time These are the things I would consider desirable in a regularly street driven car. Every car I've seen beyond 600WHP blows one or more of these parameters out of the water. The Veyron is an awesome example of >1,000HP car that you could buy groceries in, take on long quiet drives, etc., but there's what, 200 of them in the world, and I bet not one of them is regularly driven on the road. It seems to me most cars making north of 600 to the wheels are going to have things like: - very touchy throttles, making a ton of power right off idle, not fun in traffic OR - big turbo -> big lag -> power hits like a wave, not fun in traffic - heavy clutches in the case of manuals to hold the power, or regularly fried lighter clutches I should have been more specific. I get your point Carlos. Money no object, you could build a street car that would be massively powerful. Then I have to ask the question, what for? Unless you're in the sticks, you aren't going to get anywhere near that massive power, which is the other implied part of my question. |
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What does my time have to do with how I built my engine? That has to do with the way the car is set up, not how much horsepower I have. As proof, how much did you put to the wheels with your old combo? Wasn't it around 460rwhp? Well, I put down 471. Does it matter that my best time was a 2:02? I'm still running all out for a 25 minute session just like you do in your Vette. Actually, it's probably harder on my engine than it is yours since I pushing 12psi of non aftercooled boost with IAT of about 300* and your N/A. And what does the EVO (which didn't walk me) have to do with anything? Didn't I beat your Vette in my Cobra when we raced? Quote:
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Ron,
The reason that I brought up the cal speedway times is because my car is running much harder. Yes you have a supercharger, but hey the extra weight up front doesn't hurt does it? My car sticks. After the warm-up lap it rarely sees anything less than 4500 rpms. You don't have the suspension to work your car that hard. So yes, your cobra made more power than my old motor. But you weren't using it as evidence in your lap times. I am so looking forward to the start of your road racing career. Give me a call and I will slow down so you can watch and learn. CNJ |
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Really, you think you are that much better of a driver than I am? What times did you run at CSW with your old Mustang? |
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You drop 5 seconds on your second visit to a track. Well I've only run at Fontana once but I dropped over 3 seconds from my best in the first session to my best in the fourth session. I went from a best of 2:05.827 in the first to a 2:02.509 in the fourth. I also found out that my rear brakes were barely working which explains why I had to give it everything I had to slow down from 128 going into turn 3. Quote:
Free, Terry TTU 548 85 85 90 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 90 1150 1st 1150 Carter, Christopher TTU 57 90 90 90 90 90 85 90 85 90 100 100 100 1100 2nd 1100 Jorge, Carlos TTU 754 90 85 90 265 3rd 265 Griffin, Darrin TTU 981 80 75 85 240 4th 240 Pinholster, Michael TTU 04 100 100 200 5th 200 Meynet, J.C. TTU 33 90 100 190 6th 190 Hope, Andy TTU 1 90 90 180 7th 180 McNett, TC TTU 33 85 80 165 8th 165 Groth, Claus TTU 218 100 100 9th 100 Evanson, Tage TTU 17 100 100 9th 100 Salvaggio, Karen TTU 28 90 90 11th 90 Bowles, Gian TTU 47 75 75 12th 75 |
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But it cost me $85 to replace that forged piston and $10 to recoat the MLS. Not a major catastrophy, just a PITA. And it had nothing to do with the quality of the build, just a lack of patience on my part. Shouldn't have put my foot into it till I knew what was going on. Your shop could have built your expensive LS motor and then blew it up on the dyno if they were as impatient as I was. That was my bad, not my motors. And it is a nice motor. I just got home from a drive, nailed it in 3rd. Damn that thing is fast. I don't know how you guys shift these high hp cars. I could shift at 5K one time and 7K the next, it revs up too quick, even in third. Quote:
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Baddass, you keep crying about my dynoing or dragging my car. If I do it this summer, I think you need to take me around a road course in your C6. So I can see that you're not all talk too.
Yeah, that's the reason I want to go. |
For the record I'm faster that all yall. Cuz I know how to double clutch and shift seven times in a drag race like Brain Walker did in Fast and the Furious.
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You didn't answer my questions about the C5. What was done to it and what time did you run? |
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Sure, I will give you a ride, but I don't have to prove shit. |
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I have a disease called realtimeitis. I'm only capable of seeing things first hand. But yeah, I just want a ride in your car. Who wouldn't? We have so many race challenges on this forum we just need to get everyone together with their cars and duke it out. I wonder what it would cost to rent a track for a party. And then we can add rankings above our avatars based on times, so there is no question who is top dog. But whatever happens, I'm still the prettiest. No question. |
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That's pretty consistent with the other first semester law students that I've seen.:barf:
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Ok, I had to. This was the gentle version. I really could have gone for it with some of the pics Carlos has on his FB page, but at some point even I have to exercise taste. . .
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