Don't know why you can't edit, and neither does TT. He said he didn't change anything on VM. I'll look into it more, but it's weird. What exact browers are you using?

Ok. As for balancing I'll ask around and see how much balancing is. Maybe get a new set of pistons if we're going NA. :huh:

AT&T Yahoo

Should be $200-300. Used to be a place in Santa Ana. Ask Glenn.;)

Joe,

Before I go pricing balancing services, was this motor balanced when you had it assembled. I see you have an aftermarket Pro Street balancer. :huh:

That engine is balanced.

Ok then. If we can't fix the 174, and we go NA, we'll put in a gnarly flat tappet solid cam. I'll depend on you guys for proper break-in and learning how to check and maintain the valve train.

Joe,
Do remember the static compression of this engine with the E6 heads?

Drop Dead Date for 174
 

If we can't find the necessary parts to repair the 174 by the Feb. 8 LB Swap Meet, we'll be going down the high strung NA route.

Breaking in the engine is easy don't worry about it. If we do go N/A, we're going to want to add a little more compression. I think Joe said that the engine had around 9:1 which is on the low side for N/A. I think something around 12:1 would be right and we should run it on 100 octane. We will have to have the rotating assembly rebalanced if we change the pistons. I only paid $150 when I did the forged pistons in the Cobra.

$150 for the balancing or $150 for the pistons? It's not a big deal, just working out pricing for cost benefit for maximum ROI. The place where I bought the heads has their own fully balanced, fully forged stroker kits for about $1,400. This is the absolute outer limits of what I'd even consider, but if a set of pistons and balancing run up past $500, I'd at least think about it.

If we go hi-comp NA, I'd like to go E85. It costs nearly half what 100 octane does, has about 105 octane, and has other nice attributes. Quickfuel has conversion kits for 4150 Holley carbs. I *think* E85 means we could go even a little higher than 12:1. A big cammed, high reving 13.x:1 302 in a 2,500lbs car should move. :smack:

If you would consider $1400 for a rotating assembly, why not get a used blower. I only paid $1500 for that one on ebay. And if you can't find a roots, you can pick up a centri similar to this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts...1%7C240%3A1318

My order of preference would be.

Fix 174 - Clearly best ROI for power
High Strung 302 - Cost effective fun

Depending on the cost of doing a high strung 302, I might consider other options, like a stroker, or this kit, but would shy away from this price range. Still many other things to get, including a trailer . . .

I don't know Fords, but it looks to me like the block would have to be tapped for those.

Engines never put down as much power as you expect them to, why hold back? We can always limit the boost with a smaller pulley or by adjusting the wastegates if traction is an issue.

Don't know if I've used this example before, but when I hear about guys who want to limit hp, it reminds me of guys who ask for body building advice and start off with "I don't want to get too big." :sm_laughing: Don't worry bro, ain't gonna happen overnight! Don't hold back, we'll have enough unforseen issues limiting hp anyhow.

Ben, I'd base the solid vs hydraulic decision on the heads. If you buy some BIG heads, you'll want to spin this thing past 6500rpm for sheezy. If you go with some <200cc heads, the hyd will do fine. IMHO.

These are 195cc as cast. Glenn can port. See this post for ranges of flow numbers.

It was $150 for just the balancing. I don't remember how much my pistons were but I took a look on Summit and high compression forged ones go for $400-$650 for a set so that $1400 stroker is looking good. However, isn't it half that to fix the blower?

The one blower shop that said they didn't have parts, never responded to my second question of "can you fix this." I'll talk to PSE later today. Clearly if the blower can be fixed for that $600 range it is by far the cheapest option (could keep current cam, no need for different intake).

Yes, that is it.:thumbs_up:

Thoses are pretty simular to my China Chevy heads.:bigthumbsup:

Hey, you trying to give me more work? :sm_laughing:

I was trying but I'll do it if you don't want to. I just need to finish the cage, make the engine cross member, trans crossmember and motor mounts first.

I'm NOT going to hog these heads out. I will clean them up and work on contures and such. We have to watch what we (I) do here. It is best not to change the bias of the ports. I'll look at them soon. But, don't expect a GREAT change in the flow numbers. The 195cc will be plenty for what ever we do. These heads will be just fine. :drink:

Hey, not a problem if you want to do the heads. It's all yours. I've got plenty to do in my shop. If you want any input I'll take a look at them for you if you like. Should not be more than 8 to 12 hours of porting work for you.:bigthumbsup:

According to Ben when he picked up the heads they told him that they did some port work already. So hopefully they will just need to have the edges smoothed on the combustion chambers.

They said "bowl cleanup". I have no idea what that means. Curiously, they too said something to the effect of, unless you really know what you're targeting, I wouldn't port them.

Ron, you got's big plenty to do. :thumbs_up:

Glenn, I want to settle on engine config, then work with you on efficiently optimizing the intake -> heads -> exhaust. I'd like to get this engine work underway while Ron has the car for other fab. Concurrency is magic. But the 174 is the hang up right now. I'm happy to do the bulk of the real work once I have a clear understanding of what to do and a little practice.

Some interesting things are going on in my life right now. But, nothing more interesting than an engine that needs too be "figured" on!:smack:

The bowl is the section behind the valves which is what Glenn was taking about doing. If they have already cleaned them up that saves us a lot of time as long as they did a good job which I'm assuming they did. This means we would only need to clean up the combustion chambers and match the intake and exhaust ports if needed.

Something tells me most of your life has involved interesting things. The important thing is that you have the appropriate priorities for this project. :smack:

Why don't we do a Hiperf class on heads and stuff (porting also). It'd probably be 3 to 4 hours long--longer depending on the number of shots of Mexican Happy Juice.:p

Sounds great. Let me know a handful of times and locations that would work for you, and we'll set it up. My garage is fine if your shop isn't up and running yet.

How about two week ends from this week-end. Maybe I'll have my shop cleaned up enough by then. Well, actually you need the class as soon as possible. So I'm ready, really, anytime for the class. I don't need to prepare, just somethiing to draw on that everyone can see.:bigthumbsup:

All right let me look at my crystal ball and we'll come up with something.

What's the low down on this class? Can I go?:nuts:

Of course. I'll let you know when I figure out how to organize it.

Hey, I'm the one giving the class. I don't know about having Adam there. You know how he is.:rolling:











You know I'm just kidding Adam? Right? :p

Stroker
 

This is just for reference. I'm really hoping we can fix the 174 since it'll bang and potentially cost a lot less.

But my price on a fully forged, fully balanced 347 stroker is $1400.
4340 Crank
4032 FT Pistons
4340 H Beam Rods
CL-77 Bearings
Pro Moly Ring Set

They use this kit with pretty much the heads we have, a Victor Junior Style Intake, 750cfm carb, and moderate hydraulic cam to make 440bhp.

Plugs and Wires
 

I'm not taking anything for granted. Since these need to be bought, any concerns for plugs and wires. For example hot vs. cool plugs???

I promise not to hump anyone's leg this time.



Ben, why are you posting at 3am? Go to bed. And why are you building a new engine when you have a fully forged one sitting in your garage? You need to save your money for fiberglass materials for all of these one time molds that you want me to flash.

As for the spark plugs, get a recommendation from the head manufacturer and go one or two steps colder, depending on how crazy you want to go with the boost. Or if you want to run corn syrup, ask Cornfed what to buy.

If we go boost run Autolite 3923 if we go N/A run 3925 or 24. The 23's are 2 steps cooler then the 25's which are the stock replacement plug for a Mustang with a 5.0.

23 at minimum, if we pump it up 22 or even 21. I think I'm even running a 21 at this point.