New gears!

[Leedom]

So the birthday has come and gone and the fruits of my birthday (Summit gift cards) are allowing me to get my gears. 4.10 (thought a lot about this and 4.30 are higher than I want to go) and a programmer. I need advice, or should I say confirmation on choice. Let me know if you see an issue or think I would be better served with another option.

Gears
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-4209-G410A/

Installation Kit (not sure on which one I would need here)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-4210-A/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-4210-B/

Programmer
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SDA-388-3015ST/?image=large

[enkeivette]

I think programmers are kind of dumb unless you have a boosted motor. What can it really do for you? Advance your timing 4 degrees and bring the AFR down to 12.5:1 WOT? There's maybe 20hp unless something was wrong before.

If you're willing to spend $550 total I'd get some long tubes and have a muffler shop fab up some dual 3" mandrel bent pipes... that or some NOS sucka!

[Leedom]

I think programmers are kind of dumb unless you have a boosted motor. What can it really do for you? Advance your timing 4 degrees and bring the AFR down to 12.5:1 WOT? There's maybe 20hp unless something was wrong before.

If you're willing to spend $550 total I'd get some long tubes and have a muffler shop fab up some dual 3" mandrel bent pipes... that or some NOS sucka!

The tuner is more for the code reading and gear correction, not that a little exrta power hurts.. I can get another unit that just does the gear correction but that is it for $100 or so. I would rather spend a little more $ and get the programmer so when I do get my blower I have one already.

[SeanPlunk]

I think the car should be pretty awesome - I'm excited to see the difference. I always thought the low end of the N/A DOHC modular engines was lacking but this should wake it up nicely.

[enkeivette]

The tuner is more for the code reading and gear correction, not that a little exrta power hurts.. I can get another unit that just does the gear correction but that is it for $100 or so. I would rather spend a little more $ and get the programmer so when I do get my blower I have one already.

Then why not continue to save for the blower. Half the time I will lose the rear end in 2nd gear from a roll with a 3.55, and I believe I have more tire than you. You're going to hate those 4.10 with the blower.

I tried launching last week. Ha! Bounced off the rev limiter all the way till I hooked and bogged in 3rd, and that was with feathering the pedal.

[Leedom]

Then why not continue to save for the blower. Half the time I will lose the rear end in 2nd gear from a roll with a 3.55, and I believe I have more tire than you. You're going to hate those 4.10 with the blower.

I tried launching last week. Ha! Bounced off the rev limiter all the way till I hooked and bogged in 3rd, and that was with feathering the pedal.

I could do that but the blower is about 3 to 4 years away unless a financial windfall comes my way. I have talked with a number of people who say 4.10s with a blower is a pretty impressive combo. The blower I plan on running is a Procharger so it will not have as much low end torque as a roots style blower and the gears should help get me up in the rev a little quicker and thus in the powerband quicker.

[enkeivette]

The blower I plan on running is a Procharger so it will not have as much low end torque...

:sm_laughing: Somehow I don't believe a lack of power will be a problem.

[SeanPlunk]

Looking at the thread (http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=51791), it looks like Adam should expect anywhere from 430-470rwhp and 400-430rwtq on the stock pulley. I think the 4:10's will be okay.

[94cobra69ss396]

A 4.10 will be a great gear for Leedom's car. Remember enkeivette, he only has 281 cubes not 383. He doesn't have the same low end torque that Cambria has so he needs more gear to get his car moving.

Adam, you only need installation kit FMS-M-4210-A but you will need to pick up new pinion bearing if you go with it. FMS-M-4210-B comes with everything you need as well as some things we don't such as the carrier bearings. If you have the extra $40 I would just get kit B.

Let me know when you have everything in and we can set up a day to install them.

[enkeivette]

Point taken. :drink:

[Leedom]

A 4.10 will be a great gear for Leedom's car. Remember enkeivette, he only has 281 cubes not 383. He doesn't have the same low end torque that Cambria has so he needs more gear to get his car moving.

Adam, you only need installation kit FMS-M-4210-A but you will need to pick up new pinion bearing if you go with it. FMS-M-4210-B comes with everything you need as well as some things we don't such as the carrier bearings. If you have the extra $40 I would just get kit B.

Let me know when you have everything in and we can set up a day to install them.

Thanks Ron. I got the $ so I think kit B should work. I am going to order them this week.

**Side note. I just saw a bunch of charges on my credit card that I did not make, about $800 worth. Ron I might be feeling some of your pain on this regarding account theft. Fortunately mine is a credit card and not my bank card. :uh:

[94cobra69ss396]

**Side note. I just saw a bunch of charges on my credit card that I did not make, about $800 worth. Ron I might be feeling some of your pain on this regarding account theft. Fortunately mine is a credit card and not my bank card. :uh:

Sorry to hear that. The ones on my debit card are all resolved however, now they have my wifes debit card number. Luckly because it just happened to mine the bank caught it and put a hold on her card. We discover it when she went to use it and it declined. We were in AZ so we couldn't follow up on it until today and they only got away with a little over $300 this time.

[Leedom]

Gears and install kit ordered today. Should have it before the end of the week.

[enkeivette]

My buddy's ABS light came on after the 8.8 install, is that because of the 4.10 ratio? Does he need a programmer to get rid of it?

[94cobra69ss396]

My buddy's ABS light came on after the 8.8 install, is that because of the 4.10 ratio? Does he need a programmer to get rid of it?

Does the new rearend have the reluctor gear mounted on carrier? Where was it on the old one? I'm assuming the answer is yes but if Throttle Crazy looks at this he could tell you for sure. I think what is happening is that the truck is reading a difference between the speed of front and rear because of the gear change. When I did my Explorer I disconnected the front because the new axle doesn't have ABS so my light came on because of that. I don't know what would have happened if I just did a gear change.

[joedls]

4.10s FTW!!!

[The1WhiteDevil]

4.10's will be nice. i went with 3.90's and am pretty stoked on them.:drink:

[SeanPlunk]

4.10's will be nice. i went with 3.90's and am pretty stoked on them.:drink:

Yours is an auto though, correct? I think 3:90's are about perfect for your transmission.

[Leedom]

Calling Steeda tomorrow and getting the XCal3!

[94cobra69ss396]

Calling Steeda tomorrow and getting the XCal3!

Get a price from them and then call Gonzalo at GTR to see if he can beat it. Most of the time he can.

[enkeivette]

Ron, no idea. I didn't take it apart. Filled it up with Redline and took it for a test drive. I know the sensor in the 8.8 is mounted in the same spot as the sensor in the 7.5, if that tells you anything.

[Leedom]

gears and install kit came. Just need to hear back from Gonzalo about the tuner.

[SeanPlunk]

gears and install kit came. Just need to hear back from Gonzalo about the tuner.

Wow, that was fast.

[enkeivette]

Summit is awesome, 2 days or less without fail.

[Leedom]

Was talking to Gonzalo at GTR and they sell the Diablo Predator. Anyone have experience with the Diablo or know anything about them compared to the SCT XCalabrator3?

[joedls]

Either device works well. If you plan on getting your car dyno-tuned, you need to make sure your tuner supports the device you have. I found that more tuners use SCT.

Also, I like the datalogging capabilities of the SCT XCal3. I can datalog with just the device and then download it to my laptop.

[Leedom]

Either device works well. If you plan on getting your car dyno-tuned, you need to make sure your tuner supports the device you have. I found that more tuners use SCT.

Also, I like the datalogging capabilities of the SCT XCal3. I can datalog with just the device and then download it to my laptop.

The place that I was going to buy the tuner from recommends Diablo because he liked the data logging better on it over the SCT.

[SeanPlunk]

The place that I was going to buy the tuner from recommends Diablo because he liked the data logging better on it over the SCT.

Greg @ RET uses SCT, I believe Joe is correct and it is more common.

[joedls]

The place that I was going to buy the tuner from recommends Diablo because he liked the data logging better on it over the SCT.


Maybe he used the XCal2. I've used the Diablo and the XCal3. In fact I switched to the XCal 3 because the guy I wanted to tune my car didn't use the Diablo. I like the datalogging on the XCal3 better because of the reason I previously stated.

[Leedom]

Maybe he used the XCal2. I've used the Diablo and the XCal3. In fact I switched to the XCal 3 because the guy I wanted to tune my car didn't use the Diablo. I like the datalogging on the XCal3 better because of the reason I previously stated.

Cool. Thanks Joe. Anyone esle? Sean find me some threads on the other boards already.

[joedls]

You may be interested.

http://www.orangecountyhorsepower.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4502

[Leedom]

You may be interested.

http://www.orangecountyhorsepower.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4502

Thanks for the heads up Joe, but I think I am going to go new and shiny! :sm_laughing:

[joedls]

Thanks for the heads up Joe, but I think I am going to go new and shiny! :sm_laughing:


I don't blame you. Plus it sounds like the XCal2 doesn't have the datalogging capabilities you want.

[enkeivette]

You party with Richard Simmons? I thought you had a girlfriend. :fruit::farley2:

[Leedom]

You party with Richard Simmons? I thought you had a girlfriend. :fruit::farley2:

She does not mind. Besides I only party with him so Sean can slip it in his back door!

[Leedom]

You may be interested.

http://www.orangecountyhorsepower.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4502

Thanks for posting this Joe. Art over on OCHP is in need of tires and I have a spare set lying around I have been meaning to get rid of and he is buying them off me. Tuner just got cheaper!!

[Leedom]

Ordered XCal3 today. Got is for a good price from GTR. Should have it Friday!! Hopefully I do because then I can upload a tune and see if I notice anything before I put my gears in.

[94cobra69ss396]

Ordered XCal3 today. Got is for a good price from GTR. Should have it Friday!! Hopefully I do because then I can upload a tune and see if I notice anything before I put my gears in.

I sent you a PM but I can't do it this weekend. We can do it during the week if you're up for that or maybe Thankgiving weekend if you'll be in town. I'll have to check with my wife to make sure she doesn't have anything planned if you want to do it on Thanksgiving weekend.

[enkeivette]

I sent you a PM but I can't do it this weekend. We can do it during the week if you're up for that or maybe Thankgiving weekend if you'll be in town. I'll have to check with my wife to make sure she doesn't have anything planned if you want to do it on Thanksgiving weekend.

You're going to need a business license if you keep helping board members out in your garage.

[Leedom]

You're going to need a business license if you keep helping board members out in your garage.

:rolling:

There is no room for rules and regulation here on Motorgen!

Ben, chime in here. Tell the government jackass to back off! :smack:

[enkeivette]

:rolling:

There is no room for rules and regulation here on Motorgen!

Ben, chime in here. Tell the government jackass to back off! :smack:

Ha, have you seen the motor I stuffed into my smog-required car?

[Leedom]

I was reading some stuff on Royal Purple's site and it said that if you use their gear oil that no friction modifier is necessary. Would you use it without friction modifier?

[94cobra69ss396]

I was reading some stuff on Royal Purple's site and it said that if you use their gear oil that no friction modifier is necessary. Would you use it without friction modifier?

No need for friction modifier if you are using Royal Purple.

[enkeivette]

Same for redline, it's already mixed in. Friction modifier allows the diff to slip more. Drive the car in a tight circle as fast as you can without breaking the rear end loose, if it locks up then you need to add some friction modifier. But only a tablespoon at a time, you don't want to give up traction if there's no need.

I have some friction modifier if you need some, bought a bottle when I did my diff but I didn't need any.

[SeanPlunk]

yea i was going to make a post on stangbangerz but the site was down. anyone know a price range or how long it will take?

Price range for gears or for install?

And then for time are you talking install time?

[Leedom]

yea i was going to make a post on stangbangerz but the site was down. anyone know a price range or how long it will take?

Gears: $150
Install Kit: $40 to $80
Gear oil (royal purple): $19/qt
Install (friend): Case of Mt Dew

If you have a shop do it you are probably looking at about $600 or so.

Time: Self about 3 to 4 hrs, shop about a day

[SeanPlunk]

I talked to Leedom last night - it turned out to be a 9 hour job! He seemed very happy with the results though, lol.

[94cobra69ss396]

I talked to Leedom last night - it turned out to be a 9 hour job! He seemed very happy with the results though, lol.

We ran into a few issues so it took longer than it should have. The most time consuming issue was when we got the carrier out we saw that one of the spider gears had some teeth chipped. We called Ford to get some new ones but they didn't have them in stock and they wanted $175 for them. So I called up Gonzalo at GTR to see if he had any used ones. He had a complete 8.8 that had bent axle tubes so Adam and I went to GTR to get the carrier. Turned out that the axles were so bent that we couldn't get the carrier out but we did manage to get the two spider gears we needed. When we got back to my place and started to put the carrier back together I noticed that the new (used) gears were smaller than the old ones. :bang: That was a waste of two hours. So we used the chipped gears but I debured the one that had the chips.

Other issues that took more time than normal were thing like the old ring gear not wanting to come off the carrier, having to add shims to increase the carrier bearing pre load, and getting the back lash down to .009 where I wanted it.

Once we were finished we took it for a test drive to make sure there wasn't any gear noise or vibration which I'm happy to say there wasn't.

[Leedom]

Took it for a little drive today up the 5 to the 55 then down the 405 back home. I am very happy with the install Ron and I did (mostly Ron). There is no noise or vibration. I stepped on it a few times and it felt a bit stronger. I now run about 2550 RPM at 75MPH, only a 350RPM increase. I loaded up the SCT tune last night when I got home and the few times I got on it under a little bit of load the car knocked slightly. I need to do some data logging and find out what is going on. Overall I am very happy with the gears. It took longer than it should have but what's new. We also installed a pinion snubber from Maximum Motorsports while we were under the rear and the harshness of the rear suspension over larger bumps in the road is a lot softer. Very happy about that.

[Leedom]

Well, I have updated all the software and the tune for my XCal3. Gonna go fill her up with gas re-tune and flogger her and see if I am still getting a knock. Wish me luck!! :drive:

Update: Still knocking!! Starts at heavy to WOT around 4K. :censored: :bang: :mad:

[94cobra69ss396]

Well, I have updated all the software and the tune for my XCal3. Gonna go fill her up with gas re-tune and flogger her and see if I am still getting a knock. Wish me luck!! :drive:

Update: Still knocking!! Starts at heavy to WOT around 4K. :censored: :bang: :mad:

So it's either got too much timing or the afr is too lean. How much timing is the ecu pulling? Does the tuner allow you to make adjustments to the timing or afr? If so, pull 2 degrees starting at 3600 rpms up and see if it helps. If you knew how much the ecu was pulling now it would help.

[joedls]

Are you running a 91 octane tune? You can datalog how much spark your car is pulling due to knock. You can adjust timiing, either globally, or in pre-determined ranges. I don't remember what the pre-determined ranges are, but I think they are from 2000-4000, 4000-6000, and 6000+.

[Leedom]

I understand what you guys are saying but I would rather not mess with that timing. I can bump the WOT AF up a bit and see if that help otherwise I would probably be making another trip up to see you and your family Ron. :sm_laughing: Who knows, I might get crazy with Sean this weekend and mess with the timing myself, with all you guy's input of course.

[joedls]

I understand what you guys are saying but I would rather not mess with that timing. I can bump the WOT AF up a bit and see if that help otherwise I would probably be making another trip up to see you and your family Ron. :sm_laughing: Who knows, I might get crazy with Sean this weekend and mess with the timing myself, with all you guy's input of course.

Retarding the timing a couple of degrees won't hurt anything. What tune did you load up?

[Leedom]

Retarding the timing a couple of degrees won't hurt anything. What tune did you load up?

I pretty much just loaded the tune that SCT provides. I have to use the 91 tune because that is the only tune my car runs on (91 stock for me). All I adjusted for was the gears.

[joedls]

Do you have a CAI on your car?

[Leedom]

CAI, intake spacer and flowmaster mufflers and a badass Shaker!!!!

[Leedom]

So it's either got too much timing or the afr is too lean. How much timing is the ecu pulling? Does the tuner allow you to make adjustments to the timing or afr? If so, pull 2 degrees starting at 3600 rpms up and see if it helps. If you knew how much the ecu was pulling now it would help.

Here are my adjustment options

Mach 1
91 Octane, Race Fuel, Speed Limiter, Idle Drive, Idle Neutral, Shift Point 1-2, Shift Point 2-3, Shift Point 3-4, Shift Firmness 1-2, Shift Firmness 2-3, Shift Firmness 3-4, Rev Limiter, Cooling Fans, Spark 0 - 2000, Spark 2000 - 4000, Spark 4000 - 8000, WOT FUEL, Axle Ratio, 30lb injector, 42lb injector, 90mm Lightning MAF

[joedls]

CAI, intake spacer and flowmaster mufflers and a badass Shaker!!!!

I'm not familiar with how the Mach 1 came from the factory. I know it came with a shaker. Was it functional? Is the CAI stock? If not, that could explain your pinging problem. If you have an intake that breathes better, but don't adjust the tune for it, your car could run lean. When did the pinging start?

[BRUTAL64]

:popcorn:

[Leedom]

I'm not familiar with how the Mach 1 came from the factory. I know it came with a shaker. Was it functional? Is the CAI stock? If not, that could explain your pinging problem. If you have an intake that breathes better, but don't adjust the tune for it, your car could run lean. When did the pinging start?

The shaker hood is functional (factory). I have a RAI (http://jlttruecoldair.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_8&products_id=57) (ram air intake) from JLT. The compression on my motor is 10.1:1 if that makes a difference.

[joedls]

The shaker hood is functional (factory). I have a RAI (http://jlttruecoldair.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_8&products_id=57) (ram air intake) from JLT. The compression on my motor is 10.1:1 if that makes a difference.


So, was your tune adjusted when when you installed the intake? When did the pinging start?

[Leedom]

I have had the intake on pretty much since I bought the car. I got the tuner when I did the gears so I could adjust the speedo pretty much, but thought the extra power would not hurt. Without the tuner I have no ping, with the tuner I ping. I am going to give it more gas at WOT and try and knock the timing a few degrees like you guys recommend.

[joedls]

I have had the intake on pretty much since I bought the car. I got the tuner when I did the gears so I could adjust the speedo pretty much, but thought the extra power would not hurt. Without the tuner I have no ping, with the tuner I ping. I am going to give it more gas at WOT and try and knock the timing a few degrees like you guys recommend.


Yeah, it sounds like the tune that you loaded doesn't take into consideration the intake you have. That 4" pipe you have probably breathes alot better than the stock intake.

[Leedom]

Yeah, it sounds like the tune that you loaded doesn't take into consideration the intake you have. That 4" pipe you have probably breathes alot better than the stock intake.

Standard pre-programmed tuning files are designed for vehicles with minor performance modifications such as; cold air kits, high-flow exhaust systems, and other basic modifications.

Straight from the manual!

[joedls]

Standard pre-programmed tuning files are designed for vehicles with minor performance modifications such as; cold air kits, high-flow exhaust systems, and other basic modifications.

Straight from the manual!


So, did you find the pre-programmed tune for your intake on your SCT?

[Leedom]

Nope, there were no options for the kind I got specifically.

[joedls]

Standard pre-programmed tuning files are designed for vehicles with minor performance modifications such as; cold air kits, high-flow exhaust systems, and other basic modifications.

Straight from the manual!


This language from the manual is referring to tunes designed for specific modifications. For example, mine has several different tunes for CAIs, depending on manufacturer. But each one has a different file. These tunes were pre-programmed on my device. You can get an email tune for your intake for like $50. You tell them the mods you've done and they email you a tune file to upload to your device.

What was the name of the file you loaded into your car?

[Leedom]

This language from the manual is referring to tunes designed for specific modifications. For example, mine has several different tunes for CAIs, depending on manufacturer. But each one has a different file. These tunes were pre-programmed on my device. You can get an email tune for your intake for like $50. You tell them the mods you've done and they email you a tune file to upload to your device.

What was the name of the file you loaded into your car?

Not sure the name of the file. It was just the one that comes with the programmer.

[joedls]

Not sure the name of the file. It was just the one that comes with the programmer.


Didn't you have a list of files to choose from?

[enkeivette]

Take the tune out, call Summit, let them know it's a POS, return it and make Summit pay for shipping. Get on the forums and find a tuner that will upload a program without hassle. Your motor is stock, there shouldn't be a problem. Then tell Summit you want that one. For problems there are only solutions.

My brother's Mustang GT had a programmer, never a problem.

[joedls]

Take the tune out, call Summit, let them know it's a POS, return it and make Summit pay for shipping. Get on the forums and find a tuner that will upload a program without hassle. Your motor is stock, there shouldn't be a problem. Then tell Summit you want that one. For problems there are only solutions.

My brother's Mustang GT had a programmer, never a problem.

I don't think it's the device. The device is pretty straightforward once you get the hang of it. It just sounds to me like he has the wrong tune in it. I use the SCT and have no problems with it.

[Leedom]

So I finally gave up with messing with the tuner to try and fix my problem and decided to contact SCT. They said I needed to select the JLT Intake option and then realized that I did not have a 05+, when they started including this feature. Their user manual said that their preloaded tunes will work with minor modifications such as cold air kits and more free flowing exhaust and other basic mods and now SCT is telling me to fix my problem I am going to need to go to a custom tune for my car. I spend all this money on a tuner and then for a basically stock car have to get a custom tune! That is bullshit in my opinion. I am not happy. I told them this and he said to fix the problem I should be able to bump up the WOT fuel and drop the 4K-6K timing 2-4 degrees and that SHOULD fix the problem (like has been recommended by you guys). Still not a happy camper, even if this works. Take that claim off your manual that an intake, muffler, and other basic mods will work with your preloaded tunes if they do not. :bang:

[Chuck]

That sucks good luck bud. They won't do a tune for you free? :)

[BRUTAL64]

Don't take any shit from them. Give them hell until you get what you want.

[Leedom]

I played around with it some more tonight. I bumped the WOT fuel up by 1 step and backed the 4k-8k timing back 4 degrees. The car still knocks for a split second when I get back on the throttle then goes away as fast as it came. I am going to try and back the timing down 1 degree at a time till that goes away. If I have to mess around with it much more I am going to ask for a free tune! JLT intake, air intake spacer and flowmaster muffler and the tune can't hang. that is ridiculous.:bang: