What is a street motor?

[jsup]

So....I'm having a discussion with someone off line. I am told that all the theory about building motors to race has no bearing in cars that require "street motors" in "street cars". They don't use 5000 Stall converters and don't need power in the mid-high RPM ranges.

I am told that a "street motor" makes most of its power between 5500 and tops out at 6000 RPMs and has a ton of torque down low. Sounds more like a tow truck to me.

My CTS has a redline of 7000, and most cars from the factory are redlined at least at 7000.

It is my opinion that TODAY's street motors are at least 7000 RPM motors, that 5500-6000 is antiquated thinking or for tow trucks.

Can you help me define what constitutes a "street motor".

Thanks.

[SeanPlunk]

So....I'm having a discussion with someone off line. I am told that all the theory about building motors to race has no bearing in cars that require "street motors" in "street cars". They don't use 5000 Stall converters and don't need power in the mid-high RPM ranges.

I am told that a "street motor" makes most of its power between 5500 and tops out at 6000 RPMs and has a ton of torque down low. Sounds more like a tow truck to me.

My CTS has a redline of 7000, and most cars from the factory are redlined at least at 7000.

It is my opinion that TODAY's street motors are at least 7000 RPM motors, that 5500-6000 is antiquated thinking or for tow trucks.

Can you help me define what constitutes a "street motor".

Thanks.

Hmmm, my short list(off the top of my head):

-has to run on 91 octane
-has to be able to be driven in traffic without overheating

[The1WhiteDevil]

Hmmm, my short list(off the top of my head):

-has to run on 91 octane
-has to be able to be driven in traffic without overheating

it also has to make girls want to throw their panites at you when they hear the rumble of a v8. i have to roll around with my windows up these days. :drink:

[enkeivette]

Street motor = 91 octane or less and can cool and charge itself in traffic. :judge:

I don't care if it spins to 10K rpm and makes 1200hp. But no blocks filled with gel and no race gas and alternators are a must. Electric water pumps are borderline race car territory, if it can stay cool without moving then it passes my test.

[SeanPlunk]

Street motor = 91 octane or less and can cool and charge itself in traffic. :judge:

I don't care if it spins to 10K rpm and makes 1200hp. But no blocks filled with gel and no race gas and alternators are a must. Electric water pumps are borderline race car territory, if it can stay cool without moving then it passes my test.

Holy crap, we actually almost completely agree :leaving:

I know a couple Cobra guys with the Mezuire Electric water pumps and they're most definitely street cars.

[BADDASSC6]

I don't think RPM has any real factor in determining whether a motor is street or strip.

My definition:
-Runs on 91
-Runs without overheating
-Minimal start-up time
-Managable in traffic

[Leedom]

I don't think RPM has any real factor in determining whether a motor is street or strip.

My definition:
-Runs on 91
-Runs without overheating
-Minimal start-up time
-Managable in traffic

:iagree: 91 and not overheating are my main factors. Electric this and that are not to much of a concern for me.

[jedhead]

I define a street motor as one that has a large area under the torque curve over a large rpm range. One example is a 183ci V6 with 185 or more ft-lbs of torque at the wheels from 2200rpm to 6200rpm.

Bob

[enkeivette]

So you would say a 1.5 CRX motor is not a street motor?

[94cobra69ss396]

You must be talking to an old time gear head. The reason he is saying 6000rpms is because the engines back in the day were larger and made more low end torque. Todays engines are less cubes with shorter strokes and because of that they pull to 6500-7000. But that is also why automatics today are 5 to 7 speeds with a 4.xx rearend gear instead of a 3 speed with 2.xx gears. They need more gear because they don't have the same grunt.

You will never be able to define a street engine because it's all a matter of opinion and what someone is willing to put up with. Lets use the 91 octane limit as an example. Most people will say that a street engine has to be run on 91 but what about the person who's willing to run their car on C16 all the time? Let's say that this person drove his car back and forth to work everyday but you didn't know what fuel he ran. By just knowing that he drove it everyday to work would you say his car is a street car? How about after you found out that he ran C16? Would it be any less of a street car?

[BADDASSC6]

Ron,
I agree with the matter of opinion statement, but the c16 example is probably not a good one. It would be hard to not know you are running c16 come fill up time.
CNJ

[enkeivette]

Lets use the 91 octane limit as an example. Most people will say that a street engine has to be run on 91 but what about the person who's willing to run their car on C16 all the time? Let's say that this person drove his car back and forth to work everyday but you didn't know what fuel he ran. By just knowing that he drove it everyday to work would you say his car is a street car? How about after you found out that he ran C16? Would it be any less of a street car?

Yes. If you can't drive your car cross country, or even to Vegas without a chase truck carrying race gas, it's not a street car.

Street car - Car than can be driven reasonably on the streets, not just some streets within a certain radius of your special fuel fill station, but all streets, irrespective of locale.

I suppose you could make the argument that a car made to run on 93 is an exception because 93 is the high octane fuel available on every street corner in most other states.

[enkeivette]

Adam, my reason for singling out electric pumps is only that many cars with electric pumps can't drive at certain speeds or even idle without overheating. Which is why I made it conditional, they're fine by me if they can keep it cool.

[enkeivette]

Yes. If you can't drive your car cross country, or even to Vegas without a chase truck carrying race gas, it's not a street car.

Street car - Car than can be driven reasonably on the streets, not just some streets within a certain radius of your special fuel fill station, but all streets, irrespective of locale.

I suppose you could make the argument that a car made to run on 93 is an exception because 93 is the high octane fuel available on every street corner in most other states.

And by driven reasonably I mean to include, at any throttle position.

[94cobra69ss396]

Yes. If you can't drive your car cross country, or even to Vegas without a chase truck carrying race gas, it's not a street car.

Street car - Car than can be driven reasonably on the streets, not just some streets within a certain radius of your special fuel fill station, but all streets, irrespective of locale.

I suppose you could make the argument that a car made to run on 93 is an exception because 93 is the high octane fuel available on every street corner in most other states.

So what your saying is corn feds EVO is not a street car? He runs E85 and you can't get it everywhere. I understand your logic but I disagree. If I drove the Chevelle everyday back and forth to work with a round trip of say 70 miles and just filled the tank everyday before I left how would that not make it a street car? It would be driven in traffic just like every other car on the road. What does it matter that I fill it with a mix of 110 and 91. If I lived in Aspen, CO I could run it on 93 pump gas. Would it then be considered a street car in your opinion?

[enkeivette]

So what your saying is corn feds EVO is not a street car? He runs E85 and you can't get it everywhere. I understand your logic but I disagree. If I drove the Chevelle everyday back and forth to work with a round trip of say 70 miles and just filled the tank everyday before I left how would that not make it a street car? It would be driven in traffic just like every other car on the road. What does it matter that I fill it with a mix of 110 and 91. If I lived in Aspen, CO I could run it on 93 pump gas. Would it then be considered a street car in your opinion?

I actually typed that I don't consider CornFeds car a street car, then changed my mind about posting it. Didn't want to make more people hate me than necessary. But yeah... He drives to LA to fill up tanks of corn syrup for his car. Not my def of street car.

If you burn through race gas just to take your Chevelle to work, you're hard core. More power to you. And don't get me wrong, I think that is way fucking cool. Just to me, you're driving a strip car to work. I saw this 1200hp GN driving around on the street with a parachute attached to his trunk. That's way cooler than driving my Vette around the streets IMO, but it doesn't make it a street car.

Here's the thing. In one weekend, I could bolt on a smaller pulley from ATI. Force 20 something lbs of boost into my motor and just fill up with 115 octane. 20mins of work and just under $100 buys me another... what, 200hp? So is my car then an 850hp street car? IMO... no. Now I've made it an ill-equipped strip car. IMO IMHO IMHMFO :beer:

[SeanPlunk]

I actually typed that I don't consider CornFeds car a street car, then changed my mind about posting it. Didn't want to make more people hate me than necessary. But yeah... He drives to LA to fill up tanks of corn syrup for his car. Not my def of street car.

If you burn through race gas just to take your Chevelle to work, you're hard core. More power to you. And don't get me wrong, I think that is way fucking cool. Just to me, you're driving a strip car to work. I saw this 1200hp GN driving around on the street with a parachute attached to his trunk. That's way cooler than driving my Vette around the streets IMO, but it doesn't make it a street car.

Here's the thing. In one weekend, I could bolt on a smaller pulley from ATI. Force 20 something lbs of boost into my motor and just fill up with 115 octane. 20mins of work and just under $100 buys me another... what, 200hp? So is my car then an 850hp street car? IMO... no. Now I've made it an ill-equipped strip car. IMO IMHO IMHMFO :beer:

For the most part, I agree.

[enkeivette]

And I do understand your point Ron, basically if a car can be run on the street legally, you consider it a street car.

If it doesn't need to idle at 2K rpm and it doesn't have slicks and open headers, it's not a track only car. Pretty much if there's tread and a yellow sticker on the license plate, it passes your test. I can see looking at things that way.

I try and determine the intent of the owner who created the car. When you removed your hood you probably weren't worried about hydrolock if you had to drive to work in heavy rain. When you stripped the car to save weight, you probably weren't keeping noise reduction in mind for the wifey, and when you installed that bottle... you probably were thinking about how many tenths you could shave off, not how fun it would be to pull on that Ferrari on the freeway.

When I bolted those 19s on my car, I wasn't thinking about how great a 30 sidewall tire would hook in the holeshot. I was thinking I'd give up some straight line traction for some cornering ability. When I pulled my timing from 34 to 24, I wasn't thinking about my trap speed, I was thinking about the 91 octane that I've committed myself to use.

[enkeivette]

For the record, I think a 10 second BB Chevelle is pretty f'n rad. Whatever it is. :beer:

[94cobra69ss396]

Like I said before, I didn't strip the car to save weight. I striped it because I was getting ready to have the paint and body work done and I didn't want to pay some to do it. I just ran out of money so I just started driving it without the interior. Same goes for the hood. The old one was broken and I just don't have an extra $500 to buy a new one so I drive it without one.

I do agree with you that it's not a practical car to drive daily but I do enjoy driving it around as long as it has fuel in it. My daughters love to go for rides in it too. Once I get the paint and body work done I'll build a pump gas engine with a centrifugal blower like yours. I already have a 4bolt 454 ready to be built.

[enkeivette]

Like I said before, I didn't strip the car to save weight. I striped it because I was getting ready to have the paint and body work done and I didn't want to pay some to do it. I just ran out of money so I just started driving it without the interior. Same goes for the hood. The old one was broken and I just don't have an extra $500 to buy a new one so I drive it without one.

I do agree with you that it's not a practical car to drive daily but I do enjoy driving it around as long as it has fuel in it. My daughters love to go for rides in it too. Once I get the paint and body work done I'll build a pump gas engine with a centrifugal blower like yours. I already have a 4bolt 454 ready to be built.

I read centrifugal BB and my eyes got wide. :nuts:

Let me know if you're going to sell that BB in the future. When that time comes I may have the funds to drop it into my boat. :D

[enkeivette]

Neon died last Sun (as you prob saw in my other post) at 11pm, had class 8:30am Mon morning. Jumped in the Vette last minute, drove to SD from OC. It's been down here with me all week, take it to school every day. Took me to buy my first suit today. = Streetcar

[jsup]

You must be talking to an old time gear head. The reason he is saying 6000rpms is because the engines back in the day were larger and made more low end torque. Todays engines are less cubes with shorter strokes and because of that they pull to 6500-7000. But that is also why automatics today are 5 to 7 speeds with a 4.xx rearend gear instead of a 3 speed with 2.xx gears. They need more gear because they don't have the same grunt.

You will never be able to define a street engine because it's all a matter of opinion and what someone is willing to put up with. Lets use the 91 octane limit as an example. Most people will say that a street engine has to be run on 91 but what about the person who's willing to run their car on C16 all the time? Let's say that this person drove his car back and forth to work everyday but you didn't know what fuel he ran. By just knowing that he drove it everyday to work would you say his car is a street car? How about after you found out that he ran C16? Would it be any less of a street car?

I think that's the case....:D

I'm told that "street cars" don't run over 6000 RPMs, IDK, I stop making power at 6400.

[enkeivette]

I think that's the case....:D

I'm told that "street cars" don't run over 6000 RPMs, IDK, I stop making power at 6400.

That's not arbitrary :rolleyes: street cars actually stop making power a 6167 rpm. :p

The Civic Si from the 90s spins up to 8K rpm. If the Civic Si is too much for your friend to handle, we can find a nice Corolla for him. :drink:

[jsup]

We're talking SBC for frame of reference.

[enkeivette]

We're talking SBC for frame of reference.

Then the solid LT1s in the early 3rd gen Vettes did over 7K, bone stock.

[jsup]

Then the solid LT1s in the early 3rd gen Vettes did over 7K, bone stock.

Good point.

[big2bird]

This topic is as meaningfull as "What constitutes tall?":judge:

[enkeivette]

This topic is as meaningfull as "What constitutes tall?":judge:

You do ya freak! I'm 6'1" and you make me feel like less of a man.

[enkeivette]

I think that's the case....:D

I'm told that "street cars" don't run over 6000 RPMs, IDK, I stop making power at 6400.

You could make the argument that solid SBCs aren't really street motors because they require constant adjustment. Not that I'm saying this... And hyd SBCs really stop making power around 6100-6200, as far as I can tell. I'm really not sure how far you can push it with heavy springs.

And the LS engines I'm pretty sure are good past that.

[Damian]

And the LS engines I'm pretty sure are good past that.

My LS2 does good up to 6500rpms.