Subaru 216A

[SeanPlunk]

This is from another board. It looks really interesting...

Originally posted by Minty Fresh
:drool: DO WANT!!!


Just as soon as the Toyota FT-86 was born and came to this world at the Tokyo Motor show, it’s bigger, badder twin brother is about to hit the stage.

http://www.aww-kittah-aww.com/up/public/103990/216a-1.jpg]216a-1.jpg

It’s well known that Subaru and Toyota have been in the same bed developing the FT-86 but one question that remains on everyone’s lips is how, if they are developing the same car, can the two be different? Well it’s emerged that Subaru has been busy waving their wand over the 086A/FT-86 and is going to bring some very Subaru style magic to the table.

http://www.aww-kittah-aww.com/up/public/103991/216a-2.jpg]216a-2.jpg

The biggest news to come out of all this is that rumors of the car being turbo and all wheel drive are now in fact confirmed. However staff close to the Subaru development side of the project have revealed is that the first thing to differ will be the codes which the cars will be known by. While the version of the FT-86 to go on sale in Japan will be known by the code 086A and in the US and Europe as the 087A and 088A respectively, the Fuji Heavy Industries version will be branded as the 216A. This is to “clearly distinguish between the Toyota and Subaru version of the car”. Things get juicier from there though with the confirmation of what many have been suspecting all along. The car will be driven by a 2.0 liter turbo charged powerplant feeding power to all four wheels. This will either come in the flavor of a revised, lower power but more efficient 250ps and 34.0kg/m EJ20 from the Impreza 2.0 GT or the EJ20 Turbo from the current Impreza WRX STi pumping out 308ps and 43.0kg/m of torque. Our guess is the latter may well be used for an STi version of the car down the track. No pun intended.

http://www.aww-kittah-aww.com/up/public/103992/216a-3.jpg]216a-3.jpg

Body wise, the the Subaru version will be bigger and badder but at the same time tipping the scales to the tune of around 100kg more than the 086A. This seems to be a reasonable weight gain seeing that 4WD has been added and the dimensions have been increased in the region of 20mm all around. Total height and width will go from 1260mm to 1280mm and 1760 to 1780mm respectively. Wheelbase and total lengths have also been extended, with overall length reaching 4180mm and the wheelbase gaining 30 to 50mm, up to around 2600~mm from 2570mm. This is almost spot on to the current Impreza’s 2620mm so the possibility of them sharing parts or being very similar is undoubtedly high. The final distinguishing factor between the two? Well that will be the price. The increased performance, all wheel drive and pumped body will be adding around half a million yen to the tag bringing the car to around 3 million yen come 2011. This is not only to cover the extras over the Toyota but also to distinguish itself from the FT-86 version.

[SeanPlunk]

I really love the design actually - much better than the Toyota.

[Vettezuki]

Cool. But 100Kg more than what?

[BlacknBoostn]

i gotta say.. i am intrigued

this could possibly be my next brand new car someday. or an AWD mini S if they put one out

[SeanPlunk]

i gotta say.. i am intrigued

this could possibly be my next brand new car someday. or an AWD mini S if they put one out

I think an STi powered Subaru coupe would be awesome. I think an AWD Mini would be cool too, but I'm not sure they'll ever do it. I suppose they could try to use the 1 series BMW platform, but it would probably weight too much if they did that :suicide:

[enkeivette]

G37STI :idhitit:

[BADDASSC6]

Give me the turbo motor on the Toyota with a 85kg advantage over the Subaru "styling magic" any day.

[Vettezuki]

Does anybody know what the production weights of these cars are . . .

Carlos, I agree, while I personally slightly prefer the Subie styling, it isn't massive or categorical. Give me the Turbo 2l in a light as possible RWD. Of course 400+AWHP in a <3,000lb car (if the Subie is) wouldn't be too shabby. :smack:

[thisgirlkera]

I think an STi powered Subaru coupe would be awesome. I think an AWD Mini would be cool too, but I'm not sure they'll ever do it. I suppose they could try to use the 1 series BMW platform, but it would probably weight too much if they did that :suicide:

actually my brother knows a lot of the mini insiders and rumor is they are thinking about creating an AWD mini :pot_stir:

[SeanPlunk]

actually my brother knows a lot of the mini insiders and rumor is they are thinking about creating an AWD mini :pot_stir:

I've heard the same thing, but for the SUV, and not the Cooper :bang:

[enkeivette]

I'm down with the extra weight if it gives me twice as much drive traction.

[Vettezuki]

I'm down with the extra weight if it gives me twice as much drive traction.

Sticky tires will give you all the traction you really need. Though a hard core AWD launch is kinda a hoot.

[BRUTAL64]

Sticky tires will give you all the traction you really need. Though a hard core AWD launch is kinda a hoot.

And how many of those have you done?:sm_up_there:

[Vettezuki]

And how many of those have you done?:sm_up_there:

Zero. But I've witnessed a few. :)

[enkeivette]

It's so difficult to talk to you straight line guys sometimes...

Try pulling yourself out of a drift in a RWD car, then try it with an AWD car. When a RWD car loses traction, you're losing speed. On the brakes, out of the drift, and back in the race. When an AWD car loses traction, it's hardly done fighting. When those rear wheels kick loose it continues to pull you out with the front.

This is why an Evo pulls less lateral G force than a Viper, but gets through the slalom faster.

[Vettezuki]

It's so difficult to talk to you straight line guys sometimes...

Try pulling yourself out of a drift in a RWD car, then try it with an AWD car. When a RWD car loses traction, you're losing speed. On the brakes, out of the drift, and back in the race. When an AWD car loses traction, it's hardly done fighting. When those rear wheels kick loose it continues to pull you out with the front.

This is why an Evo pulls less lateral G force than a Viper, but gets through the slalom faster.

I'm not a straight line guy. You're supposed to flirt on the boundary of traction, not lose it. All of the worlds fastest road course cars, to say nothing of formula cars are ALL RWD. The GT-R and Turbo Porsche are up towards the top for Ring times, but even there, the fastest production cars are still RWD.

No question though. Nimrod vs. Nimrod, the Nimrod in the AWD wins every time.

Ralley is a whole different ball game because of all the surfaces other than tarmac they race on.

[enkeivette]

Agreed, a car with 18" slicks in the front will do better without the extra weight of a front diff. When it's a race car, and traction is not as much of an issue, I too would prefer a RWD platform. Less weight up front is always a good thing.

But in the real world, I'm not a pro race car driver, neither are you, and neither of us have a C3 like TTs.

This is sort of like my argument with Skunk, he was saying that you don't need a sway bar in a car, you can just up the spring rate. Yeah, ok, true... in a race car. But who here has a race car? Other than CobraSS. :nutkick: :sm_laughing: :surrender: :leaving:

I'm a sway bar loving, AWD loving, 91 octane, treaded tire sort of guy. :bigthumbsup:

[enkeivette]

http://www.vettemod.com/forum/imagehosting/24929a8033ee36.jpg

[enkeivette]

Like always we're getting too far removed. Driving preference aside, would you put your money on the stock red (toyota) concept or the stock blue (subaru) concept, on a road course?

[Vettezuki]

Like always we're getting too far removed. Driving preference aside, would you put your money on the stock red (toyota) concept or the stock blue (subaru) concept, on a road course?

The engines and outputs are different as well. Assuming the same outputs and average driver, no question the AWD wins 9 out of 10.

Carlos originally made the point and he races all the time. For him it is totally valid to go with the lighter RWD.

[Vettezuki]

http://www.vettemod.com/forum/imagehosting/24929a8033ee36.jpg

When he finishes that car in 2023, I bet you he puts it in a tree in under 15 minutes. :lmfao:


Actually I have no idea how well he drives or not. But that thing is going to be psychotic.

[enkeivette]

I don't think he really cares enough to finish it. I think he enjoys the tuning, not the driving.

Maybe I'll make him a serious offer someday and ship that thing over here.

[BRUTAL64]

The engines and outputs are different as well. Assuming the same outputs and average driver, no question the AWD wins 9 out of 10.

Carlos originally made the point and he races all the time. For him it is totally valid to go with the lighter RWD.

I drove the Pontiac Vibe and it was AWD. I was impressed.:ugh:

[BRUTAL64]

http://www.vettemod.com/forum/imagehosting/24929a8033ee36.jpg

Is that TT's vehicle?

[BADDASSC6]

I drove the Pontiac Vibe and it was AWD. I was impressed.:ugh:

Ben,
It depends on the engine output. It it's making less than 400whp then AWD is just too much more weight and parasitic losses then it's worth. For road racing I don't think AWD isn't worth much unless you are making more than 500 whp. Slicks get so much more grip when the have been heated a couple of laps that I can't see a 100 kg (220lbm) load being worth it. The Toyota is lighter, more compact in all dimensions. Less frontal area, less weight, less losses equal a faster more fuel efficient car. Just my $.02:drink:

[Vettezuki]

Ben,
It depends on the engine output. It it's making less than 400whp then AWD is just too much more weight and parasitic losses then it's worth. For road racing I don't think AWD isn't worth much unless you are making more than 500 whp. Slicks get so much more grip when the have been heated a couple of laps that I can't see a 100 kg (220lbm) load being worth it. The Toyota is lighter, more compact in all dimensions. Less frontal area, less weight, less losses equal a faster more fuel efficient car. Just my $.02:drink:

You meant Glenn. I'm reading from the same music as you, but get Adam's point.

[enkeivette]

Glenn, yup.

C6, Evo was 270, still beat the 500hp Viper in the slalom.

[BADDASSC6]

Glenn, yup.

C6, Evo was 270, still beat the 500hp Viper in the slalom.

Well, lets logical analyze this. The Slalom is a test were the the vehicle is forced to go back and forth between cones. The NARROWER the car is the less of and ARC the CAR has to trace. A Viper is a least 1 ft wider than the Evo therefore the viper has to trace a much wider arc. Evos come with much sticker tires. Finally, I have only done slaloms during autocross events which is the automotive equivalent to gay sex. Race tracks may have chicanes or switchbacks, but no slaloms.

At no point in a slalom is anyone going to go full throttle. therefore the fact the the Evo has less power than the Viper is pointless.

[BADDASSC6]

That TT C3 is awesome who's is it and what's the game plan????

[BRUTAL64]

That TT C3 is awesome who's is it and what's the game plan????

The game plan is on going for years. Twin Turbo(TT) is the lead/head guy at Vettemod.com. The guys there are the smartest bunch of Vette builders you will find anywhere.

[Vettezuki]

That TT C3 is awesome who's is it and what's the game plan????

It's a monument. . . Seriously though, Marck (TwinTurbo) is an absolute encyclopedia of automotive engineering information and ability. It's stupefying. :hail:

[enkeivette]

Maybe I should turn my 78 into a race car when I get out of school rather than selling it. But I'd hate to destroy my paint job for flares... heads in the clouds, school first, then job, then money, then cars.

Btw, TTs car is what I think of when I consider building a race car. Not a drag race car.

But I wonder if the C3 is really a decent platform to build off of if you're not a CAD expert with welders and a mandrel bender in your garage.

[Vettezuki]

. . heads in the clouds, school first, then job, then money, then cars.

Nothing wrong with daydreaming a bit. But yeah, that's the correct order. :drink:

Btw, TTs car is what I think of when I consider building a race car. Not a drag race car.

But I wonder if the C3 is really a decent platform to build off of if you're not a CAD expert with welders and a mandrel bender in your garage.

TT's car is a C3 looking custom. Of course you can make a gnarly road racing car froma C3, but no, it won't/can't be "refined" to current standards. You're talking about a chassis that was first conceived in the late 50s and implemented in 63', without many fundamental changes from then on. So it depends, do you want to bomb around in thumping old Vette in vintage racing (still plenty fast and hair raising I'd imagine) or get close to current levels of handling performance?

[enkeivette]

Vintage shmintage, I want to smash the passenger onto the door panel.

[st-evo-9*corn fed-8urvet*]

cool to see a more final product of these car's the differences in engine have been know's for a while. hmmmm i went to the steelership to almost buy a genesis coupe....i might hold out a lil more till these come out.

[SeanPlunk]

cool to see a more final product of these car's the differences in engine have been know's for a while. hmmmm i went to the steelership to almost buy a genesis coupe....i might hold out a lil more till these come out.

My buddy bought a genesis coupe - great car :thumbs_up:

[enkeivette]

I saw a Genesis last week, it was kiiinda sick.

[st-evo-9*corn fed-8urvet*]

ya i saw my first one actually driving on the street in west co about a week ago in silver...freakin sex i tell u!!!

so sean do u think ur friend would be down to give me a drive around :-D!!

also wat engine and trim model did he get?

[enkeivette]

My buddy has a T4 on order. I'll try to get him to bring it to the next meet.

[SeanPlunk]

ya i saw my first one actually driving on the street in west co about a week ago in silver...freakin sex i tell u!!!

so sean do u think ur friend would be down to give me a drive around :-D!!

also wat engine and trim model did he get?

Yeah, I'm sure he'd be willing. He has a 2010 3.8 Track loaded with everything. He's getting hooked up with a free exhaust from Megan Racing (http://www.meganracing.com/index.asp) here pretty quick as well.