Vettezuki
10-18-2007, 10:31 PM
Ok, bgn8711 thinks not only is the Turbo Buick a great straight line value, which it undeniably is, but that it can be made to handle for reasonable amounts of money. How well can it be made to handle you ask? According to him, enough to beat my somewhat built C3 Corvette for similar total investment. Ok, that's a hoot :laugh:
Bench Racing, like most hypothetical pondering, goes from vaguely interesting to jack-off territory very fast. Ultimately to get some satisfaction, you got to get it on.
So, why not a little competition? May take a while to set up, but would be at least an interesting point for discussing suspension and handling.
I propose something along the lines of:
BUDGET
$30k including original purchase price, all parts and labor. This is about how much I have into my C3 now give or take.
[NOTE: This is generous of me because knowing what I know now, I could achieve exactly the same level of performance I currently have for $20k total or perhaps even less. This is mostly because of the original purchase price. If I knew I was going to do a full tilt swap, I'd look for the body/chasis I wanted with shot engine and trans and spend like $3-5k instead of $13k for a fully functional car. Also, I'd buy a donor Camaro SS or WS6 and recoup some money on parting out the left overs. These two approaches would easily reduce my total cost by a third. If I were to spend $30k from scratch I'd be at a significantly higher level of handling. Nevertheless, I spent about $30k doing it the dumb way to get where I am, so we can pretend it's a fair comparison. I built my LSx C3 ad hoc as a kind of all-arounder, which gets great mileage, puts out minimal pollution, and is very mild on the street. While there is no way it would beat a Turbo Buick that had $30k total invested at the strip (probably a 9< second car), I believe it will still outperform at a road course; not to mention mileage, street manors and the like.]
CHASSIS
The chassis in the G-Body has to be original. In other words, no G-Body kit on a purpose built space frame if there is such a thing. (I don't know about the 80s' G-Body, but there are fantastic chassis packages for Tri Year Chevys, but then you're just using the body as a shell and it isn't that car any more.) I suppose fiberglass panels are okay since that's a pretty normal modification to a stock car for racing. Engine can be built to the max, but needs to be in the same class (i.e., Turbo V6). However, it can't be an off-road use only car, must be genuinely street legal in CA, as my LSx C3 Vette is.
Track times must be from a reasonably technical circuit, not just a bunch of straight aways. Willow Springs, Buttonwillow, Spring Mountain, or other similar tracks I could actually get to would be good examples. I believe this is more than fair.
As a point of reference for discussing suspension and handling, to my knowledge, in stock vs. stock form, even the C3 is ahead of the G body in virtually every category that matters most for handling.
- total weight
- weight balance
- weight centralization
- sprung vs. unsprung weight
- center of gravity
- roll centers
- basic suspension type (SLA/IRS vs. Strut and Live Axle)
- torsional rigidity (not positive about this one)
- manual vs. auto
- aerodynamics
- braking
Here's a little more about my Vette:http://www.motorgen.com/garage/showvehicle.php?vehicleid=58
Bench Racing, like most hypothetical pondering, goes from vaguely interesting to jack-off territory very fast. Ultimately to get some satisfaction, you got to get it on.
So, why not a little competition? May take a while to set up, but would be at least an interesting point for discussing suspension and handling.
I propose something along the lines of:
BUDGET
$30k including original purchase price, all parts and labor. This is about how much I have into my C3 now give or take.
[NOTE: This is generous of me because knowing what I know now, I could achieve exactly the same level of performance I currently have for $20k total or perhaps even less. This is mostly because of the original purchase price. If I knew I was going to do a full tilt swap, I'd look for the body/chasis I wanted with shot engine and trans and spend like $3-5k instead of $13k for a fully functional car. Also, I'd buy a donor Camaro SS or WS6 and recoup some money on parting out the left overs. These two approaches would easily reduce my total cost by a third. If I were to spend $30k from scratch I'd be at a significantly higher level of handling. Nevertheless, I spent about $30k doing it the dumb way to get where I am, so we can pretend it's a fair comparison. I built my LSx C3 ad hoc as a kind of all-arounder, which gets great mileage, puts out minimal pollution, and is very mild on the street. While there is no way it would beat a Turbo Buick that had $30k total invested at the strip (probably a 9< second car), I believe it will still outperform at a road course; not to mention mileage, street manors and the like.]
CHASSIS
The chassis in the G-Body has to be original. In other words, no G-Body kit on a purpose built space frame if there is such a thing. (I don't know about the 80s' G-Body, but there are fantastic chassis packages for Tri Year Chevys, but then you're just using the body as a shell and it isn't that car any more.) I suppose fiberglass panels are okay since that's a pretty normal modification to a stock car for racing. Engine can be built to the max, but needs to be in the same class (i.e., Turbo V6). However, it can't be an off-road use only car, must be genuinely street legal in CA, as my LSx C3 Vette is.
Track times must be from a reasonably technical circuit, not just a bunch of straight aways. Willow Springs, Buttonwillow, Spring Mountain, or other similar tracks I could actually get to would be good examples. I believe this is more than fair.
As a point of reference for discussing suspension and handling, to my knowledge, in stock vs. stock form, even the C3 is ahead of the G body in virtually every category that matters most for handling.
- total weight
- weight balance
- weight centralization
- sprung vs. unsprung weight
- center of gravity
- roll centers
- basic suspension type (SLA/IRS vs. Strut and Live Axle)
- torsional rigidity (not positive about this one)
- manual vs. auto
- aerodynamics
- braking
Here's a little more about my Vette:http://www.motorgen.com/garage/showvehicle.php?vehicleid=58