Fantasy SB build

[enkeivette]

I suspect Glenn will dominate this thread. Here are the rules, only OEM parts (ex. camel hump heads, NOT Trick Flows), not even aftermarket fuel pumps, pump gas required. Ford, Dodge, or GM.

Post your combo and your predicted hp.

[Vettezuki]

Any maching/porting allowed? What about cams? Do they have to be OEM street Cams or can they be "Hot Cams" or factory racing bits commonly available.

[enkeivette]

Hot cams are cool, head milling and porting is also cool. Just needs a factory casting number. You can oversize valves but they must be from the maker too!

[enkeivette]

Here's mine:

SBC (Go figure)

400ci, 2 bolt main caps (which are stronger than the 4 bolts for some reason)
LT1 Solid Cam & Lifters
LT4 1.6 rockers
Vortec Heads 11.5:1 compression & ported by Glenn :D 2.06& 1.78 BBC valves, would that work?
Single plane vortec manifold
4150 Holley carb (from a BBC) tuned by me!

450hp ish?

[enkeivette]

No welding a diesel blower base to a sb manifold to run a 10-71! That's too much 'machining.'

[94cobra69ss396]

I'd go with the same parts as Adam except I'd build a 383 using a 400 crank and 350 block with 10:1, the Vortec heads with 2.02/1.60 and a GM 30-30 cam. It should make about 450-475hp with 450-475tq.

[94cobra69ss396]

Another fun one would be the same parts only use a 283 crank for 302ci. It should still make the same HP but it would be at 7000rpms instead of 6000. It would also only make around 385-400TQ.

[enkeivette]

I don't think the LT1 cam would have balls up to 7K.

[94cobra69ss396]

I don't think the LT1 cam would have balls up to 7K.

Probably not but the GM 30-30 does. Both Crane and Comp Cams make new replacements for it and the Comp one shows an operation range of 2300-6900. It has 247/254 at .050 with .504/.498 lift with 1.5 rockers on a 112 LSA.

[94cobra69ss396]

By the way, when you say OEM parts does that include GM Performance parts and FRPP?

[BRUTAL64]

Here's mine:

SBC (Go figure)

400ci, 2 bolt main caps (which are stronger than the 4 bolts for some reason)
LT1 Solid Cam & Lifters
LT4 1.6 rockers
Vortec Heads 11.5:1 compression & ported by Glenn :D 2.06& 1.78 BBC valves, would that work?
Single plane vortec manifold
4150 Holley carb (from a BBC) tuned by me!

450hp ish?

Wrong cam-- the 70 to 72 LT1 cam is smog issued. Use the 346 30 30 cam that be 64 to 65 Vette fuelie or 67 to 69 Z/28.

[BRUTAL64]

I'd go with the same parts as Adam except I'd build a 383 using a 400 crank and 350 block with 10:1, the Vortec heads with 2.02/1.60 and a GM 30-30 cam. It should make about 450-475hp with 450-475tq.

I prefer the 400 bore of 4.125. Gives the valves a little more room to breath. ;)

[BRUTAL64]

I will post my engine when I have more time. But, I'll give you this-- it will be a FORD engine and in the 429 to 460 ci range.:laugh:

If you would prefer a small block then --money is an issue-- it would be a Chevy. If money is not an issue then world be 351 Cleveland followed by a 351 Windsor.

[BRUTAL64]

Here's mine:

SBC (Go figure)

400ci, 2 bolt main caps (which are stronger than the 4 bolts for some reason)
LT1 Solid Cam & Lifters
LT4 1.6 rockers
Vortec Heads 11.5:1 compression & ported by Glenn :D 2.06& 1.78 BBC valves, would that work?
Single plane vortec manifold
4150 Holley carb (from a BBC) tuned by me!

450hp ish?


The reason the 2 bolt is stronger than the 4 bolt is the out side main bolts on the 4 bolt (because of the larger mains) go into the water jackets--making them prone to cracking at the threads. :sm_up_there:

[SeanPlunk]

I will post my engine when I have more time. But, I'll give you this-- it will be a FORD engine and in the 429 to 460 ci range.:laugh:

If you would prefer a small block then --money is an issue-- it would be a Chevy. If money is not an issue then world be 351 Cleveland followed by a 351 Windsor.

I think I'd take a pontiac small block and bore it out to 468ci :D

[94cobra69ss396]

My Ford entry.

351W with 10:1
Z Cam part number M-6250-Z303
1.7 Cobra (Crane) roller rockers
Z Heads part number M-6049-Z304D
Single plane M-9424-V351
4150 Holley carb from a 427

It should make about 500hp at 6500 and around 475tq at 5000.

[94cobra69ss396]

I think I'd take a pontiac small block and bore it out to 468ci :D

So give us the build details.

[BRUTAL64]

I think I'd take a pontiac small block and bore it out to 468ci :D

There is no such thing as a Pontiac small block. :judge:

[enkeivette]

There is no such thing as a Pontiac small block. :judge:

Sure there is, it's also been referred to as a chevy small block. You could bore out a 400sbc and use pistons from some other Chevy, although I think all of the big block pistons would be waaay too big for this. You'd be into the water jackets and the pistons would be overlapping eachother.

Can't think of a stock sb crank with more than a 3.75 stroke.

[Vettezuki]

Hey kids, why don't you start putting some real world current prices on these bits.

[BRUTAL64]

Sure there is, it's also been referred to as a chevy small block. You could bore out a 400sbc and use pistons from some other Chevy, although I think all of the big block pistons would be waaay too big for this. You'd be into the water jackets and the pistons would be overlapping eachother.

Can't think of a stock sb crank with more than a 3.75 stroke.

A TRUE Pontiac engine is one size only--except the short deck 4.9. Chevy SB is not a Pontiac engine.:judge:

[enkeivette]

A TRUE Pontiac engine is one size only--except the short deck 4.9. Chevy SB is not a Pontiac engine.:judge:

What kind of engine do they use in first and second and third gen trans ams?

[BRUTAL64]

What kind of engine do they use in first and second and third gen trans ams?

First Gen--all Pontiac engines..including SOHC 6 cylinder

Second Gen--All Pontiac V8s till mid seventies. Then some T/As got (calif) Olds 403s. Then in 79 the 4.9 Pontiac short deck showed up.
The straight 6 was a Chevy till about 76 Then the Buick V6 was added.
Some Olds 307s were used and SBCs mid Seventies to 81.

Third and forth gen is all Chevy engines.

A Pontiac engine is the same out side diamention 55 thru 79--except for the short deck 4.9 L.:drink:

[enkeivette]

Well Sean and I both can't be wrong. So either there is such thing as a Pontiac sb, or they did use the sbc in the trans am. And from what you just wrote, it looks like both are true.

[94cobra69ss396]

Well Sean and I both can't be wrong. So either there is such thing as a Pontiac sb, or they did use the sbc in the trans am. And from what you just wrote, it looks like both are true.

What Glenn is trying to tell you is that there isn't small/big block Pontiac engines. There is only one.

Imagine that Chevy never made a big block and only a small block. That's what it's like. You would still have small displacements such as the 283 and large displacements like the 400 but they all use the same exterior dimensions.

[BRUTAL64]

What Glenn is trying to tell you is that there isn't small/big block Pontiac engines. There is only one.

Imagine that Chevy never made a big block and only a small block. That's what it's like. You would still have small displacements such as the 283 and large displacements like the 400 but they all use the same exterior dimensions.

Yea, what he said.:bigthumbsup:

[enkeivette]

What Glenn is trying to tell you is that there isn't small/big block Pontiac engines. There is only one.

Imagine that Chevy never made a big block and only a small block. That's what it's like. You would still have small displacements such as the 283 and large displacements like the 400 but they all use the same exterior dimensions.

OIC, I would still consider it a small block. Like I consider the LS1, a small block, or even the LS7 a small block. Even though GM isn't currently producing any larger V8s to my knowledge. But I would never call a mod motor, a small block.

[BRUTAL64]

OIC, I would still consider it a small block. Like I consider the LS1, a small block, or even the LS7 a small block. Even though GM isn't currently producing any larger V8s to my knowledge. But I would never call a mod motor, a small block.

The actual size of a true Pontiac motor is half way between a SBC and BBC.:p


No true Pontiac engine was called a SMALL BLOCK.:bang::bang:

[94cobra69ss396]

My Pontiac build.

455 with 10:1
Cam #9794041
6X Heads ported
'69-'70 R/A-IV or '71 455 H.O. intake manifold.
Rochester carb model 7041263 '71 A, F, G, 400/455 manual trans (high flow)

It should make about 400-420hp at around 5000 and around 500-520tq at about 3000.

[BRUTAL64]

My Pontiac build.

455 with 10:1
Cam #9794041
6X Heads ported
'69-'70 R/A-IV or '71 455 H.O. intake manifold.
Rochester carb model 7041263 '71 A, F, G, 400/455 manual trans (high flow)

It should make about 400-420hp at around 5000 and around 500-520tq at about 3000.

6x is not a good head. Edelbrock heads add 50 to 60 hp just bolting them on the 455. The Ram Air IV cam is a GREAT cam!

[94cobra69ss396]

6x is not a good head. Edelbrock heads add 50 to 60 hp just bolting them on the 455. The Ram Air IV cam is a GREAT cam!

Yes but the rule was to use factory parts.

[jedhead]

Sorry I couldn't resist this old thread. I found a picture of my bro's 1950 Phaeton while I am searching for a picture of my 240Z. His engine is my fantasy small block Chevy. 365hp 327 Corvette engine rebuilt .40 over, TRW 11.5 to 1 pistons, TRW anti pump up lifters. Mallory dual point ignition, rebuilt holley 650. The heads were ported and polished, glass beaded the intake and de-burred the block. The jeep had a super T10 4 speed and a pontiac firebird rear end.

Bob

[enkeivette]

Were TRW parts and Mallory parts available from Ford, Dodge or GM? I'm sure the Holley would fly.

[94cobra69ss396]

Were TRW parts and Mallory parts available from Ford, Dodge or GM? I'm sure the Holley would fly.

No, those are aftermarket parts.

[joedls]

Were TRW parts and Mallory parts available from Ford, Dodge or GM? I'm sure the Holley would fly.

I think the Boss 302 may have had TRW pistons, but I may be mistaken. Glenn?

[jedhead]

Were TRW parts and Mallory parts available from Ford, Dodge or GM? I'm sure the Holley would fly.
I remember we bought the Mallory distributor at Comier Chevorlet from the Chevy High Performance catalog. I don't recall where we got the pistons and lifters.

Bob

[BRUTAL64]

I think the Boss 302 may have had TRW pistons, but I may be mistaken. Glenn?

During the sixties and up TRW supplied most of the forged pistons for ALL the American manufactures. :thumbs_up:

Now, who knows--:huh:

[enkeivette]

I would say that build was legit, sans the dist. Sounds like an aftermarket purchase through the dealer.