7.1 or 5.1 surround sound?

[BRUTAL64]

Ok, boys and girls educate me on the "new" stuff. What I need to know, what's hot and whats not. The more power the better. I can figure out anything so blast away with specs and shit.:bigthumbsup:


This is a "possible" replacement for my KR 9600 home Stereo that I have beat hard for 30 years. :judge:

[Vettezuki]

Ok, boys and girls educate me on the "new" stuff. What I need to know, what's hot and whats not. The more power the better. I can figure out anything so blast away with specs and shit.:bigthumbsup:


This is a "possible" replacement for my KR 9600 home Stereo that I have beat hard for 30 years. :judge:

What do you want as an end result? Do intend to hook up >=6 speakers for that Home Theater surround experience or do you just want two good stereo channels?

Do you have or will you get a DVD/HDDVD/Blu-Ray wit discreet channel output, whether analog or digital?

Basically 5.1 is the more common "standard". But you can still get receiver/amps with just stereo channels.

[BRUTAL64]

What do you want as an end result? Do intend to hook up >=6 speakers for that Home Theater surround experience or do you just want two good stereo channels?

Do you have or will you get a DVD/HDDVD/Blu-Ray wit discreet channel output, whether analog or digital?

Basically 5.1 is the more common "standard". But you can still get receiver/amps with just stereo channels.

Ok, here goes: The KR 9600 was the Top of Line in 1977. I want to go Top of the Line again, it doesn't need to go 30 years. I'd be too old by then. I like my tunes loud and everywhere.


I already have 4 great speakers. Just tell me what is the best to have and what brand names are the best. Goodies I would need to have and specs to look for.

Yes, Blue Ray/HDDVD discreet channel out put ( not sure what that is yet).

Remember I've had the 9600 for 30 years and cranked it up to make your ears bleed. I want the same thing but in all up to date latest trick shit.

Throw the big words/works and specs at me and I'll sort it all out.


I catch up fast.:drink:

[Vettezuki]

Ok, here goes: The KR 9600 was the Top of Line in 1977. I want to go Top of the Line again, it doesn't need to go 30 years. I'd be too old by then. I like my tunes loud and everywhere.


I already have 4 great speakers. Just tell me what is the best to have and what brand names are the best. Goodies I would need to have and specs to look for.

Yes, Blue Ray/HDDVD discreet channel out put ( not sure what that is yet).

Remember I've had the 9600 for 30 years and cranked it up to make your ears bleed. I want the same thing but in all up to date latest trick shit.

Throw the big words/works and specs at me and I'll sort it all out.


I catch up fast.:drink:

Well, top of the line, goes into the stratosphere for cost, so what's your budget is the next good question.

[TimAT]

7.1 Surround? Holy kwap. You Kali guys get all the good stuff. I'm just getting my coconut wrapped around 5.1!!

And for the record--

Discreet output is what you get from that little cutie your significant other dosen't know about.:rolling:

[nordy racer]

if you blueray, you need the HDMI cable to get the full usage.. if your TV is not new, it won't have it.. i had to start from sq one with my home system..

50 flat screen panasonic..
sony blueray player..
sony head unit with 100 watts each channel (500 total)

i love my Bose cubes, that are the shit :).. i also have a 15 sub in the corner, kicking the bass..

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e265/nordyracer87/stuff/pics069.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e265/nordyracer87/stuff/pics063.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e265/nordyracer87/stuff/pics065.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e265/nordyracer87/stuff/pics059.jpg

[94cobra69ss396]

Forget 7.1 unless you have a huge room. It's a waist of money. I'm also using the Bose Acoustimass 15 in my family room but I'm not that happy with the sound. For one the cubes lack the briliant highs I enjoy. However, when I bought my house my wife wanted small speakers that we could mount up on the walls and they sounded the best out of the small speakers we listened to. They work okay for movies but not for music. Same goes for the subwoofer. Although it sounds fine with movies with music the 5 1/2 woofers tend to pop when turned up. I added a 500watt RMS Sony subwoofer with dual 10s behind my TV so that I could turn the Bose subwoofer down. That resolved the bass issue but not the highs. You also don't need a ton of power as 100-150 watts RMS will go pretty loud without breaking the bank.

In my loft I have a cheap KLH 5.1 speaker system that sounds decent for the cheap price I paid for it. They have the highrange that the Bose are missing but they also lack in the midrange where the Bose shine. They also have a 100watt RMS powered 10 inch subwoofer that again sounds pretty good for being a cheap sub.

What 4 speakers do you currently have, make and size? Do you have a powered subwoofer or non-powered subwoofer? If not, are you planning to add either to the system? The reason I ask is because some receivers have power for the subwoofer where others do not in which case the subwoofer would have to have it's own amp.

[heypal]

Whats your budget. I know of a set of speakers that go for 65k. Made of oak pissed on by a retarded monkey or someshit. CES show is awesome for crazy stuff like that. Its not at the convention center its in some guys hotel room. The whole hotel gets rented out and thats where you see the coolest most expensive stuff. And hookers.
BUT on a real note, what is your budget?

[enkeivette]

Unless you have a fiber optic or an hdmi or a digital coax connection to your amp, it will only be 2 channel anyways. Also, if you don't know how to setup the amp to play in 5 channel mode, which is common, you'll end up with 5 speakers playing stereo.

Keep in mind, few things are recorded in 5 channel or higher, and even fewer in 7 channel. If it comes down to sacrificing speaker quality for the extra two channels, I say forget it.

Then again, if you're buying your speakers at Best Buy or Circuit City, you have a 95% chance of ending up with shitty speakers, even higher if you buy what the salesman recommends.

Question to help your purchase: Does your satellite/ cable box have a digital audio out of some kind? Does your DVD player have a digital out of some kind? If not, you will get only stereo from that source.

[BRUTAL64]

Forget 7.1 unless you have a huge room. It's a waist of money. I'm also using the Bose Acoustimass 15 in my family room but I'm not that happy with the sound. For one the cubes lack the briliant highs I enjoy. However, when I bought my house my wife wanted small speakers that we could mount up on the walls and they sounded the best out of the small speakers we listened to. They work okay for movies but not for music. Same goes for the subwoofer. Although it sounds fine with movies with music the 5 1/2 woofers tend to pop when turned up. I added a 500watt RMS Sony subwoofer with dual 10s behind my TV so that I could turn the Bose subwoofer down. That resolved the bass issue but not the highs. You also don't need a ton of power as 100-150 watts RMS will go pretty loud without breaking the bank.

In my loft I have a cheap KLH 5.1 speaker system that sounds decent for the cheap price I paid for it. They have the highrange that the Bose are missing but they also lack in the midrange where the Bose shine. They also have a 100watt RMS powered 10 inch subwoofer that again sounds pretty good for being a cheap sub.

What 4 speakers do you currently have, make and size? Do you have a powered subwoofer or non-powered subwoofer? If not, are you planning to add either to the system? The reason I ask is because some receivers have power for the subwoofer where others do not in which case the subwoofer would have to have it's own amp.


I have stacked Advents. They have 8 inch woofers and custom tweeters.

They are very clear and crisp.

Will get a sub-woofer if needed.

[BRUTAL64]

Unless you have a fiber optic or an hdmi or a digital coax connection to your amp, it will only be 2 channel anyways. Also, if you don't know how to setup the amp to play in 5 channel mode, which is common, you'll end up with 5 speakers playing stereo.

Keep in mind, few things are recorded in 5 channel or higher, and even fewer in 7 channel. If it comes down to sacrificing speaker quality for the extra two channels, I say forget it.

Then again, if you're buying your speakers at Best Buy or Circuit City, you have a 95% chance of ending up with shitty speakers, even higher if you buy what the salesman recommends.

Question to help your purchase: Does your satellite/ cable box have a digital audio out of some kind? Does your DVD player have a digital out of some kind? If not, you will get only stereo from that source.


My cousin works for JBL.:p

I know what good speakers sound like. My Advents are the bomb.:rolleyes:

No, cable or satellite yet. I would be starting from the beginning.

[BRUTAL64]

Whats your budget. I know of a set of speakers that go for 65k. Made of oak pissed on by a retarded monkey or someshit. CES show is awesome for crazy stuff like that. Its not at the convention center its in some guys hotel room. The whole hotel gets rented out and thats where you see the coolest most expensive stuff. And hookers.
BUT on a real note, what is your budget?

I will build a system around the Home Hifi:p.

So I can spend what I need over time. Just need to get enough info to do it right. I can research this, but I trust most of you to have faith in what you people tell me. That way I will know enough to ask the right questions.:thumbs_up:

[BRUTAL64]

if you blueray, you need the HDMI cable to get the full usage.. if your TV is not new, it won't have it.. i had to start from sq one with my home system..

50 flat screen panasonic..
sony blueray player..
sony head unit with 100 watts each channel (500 total)

i love my Bose cubes, that are the shit :).. i also have a 15 sub in the corner, kicking the bass..

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e265/nordyracer87/stuff/pics069.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e265/nordyracer87/stuff/pics063.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e265/nordyracer87/stuff/pics065.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e265/nordyracer87/stuff/pics059.jpg


Nice system!:bigthumbsup:

Don't have my HD TV yet. I have a grasp on them so far.:smack:

[94cobra69ss396]

I have stacked Advents. They have 8 inch woofers and custom tweeters.

They are very clear and crisp.

Will get a sub-woofer if needed.

If you can, you need to get a matching center channel speaker to go with the four you already have. Otherwise as the sound moves from one side in the front to the other it will cound different between the speakers. As for a sub, with 8 inch woofers in the main speakers you won't need a huge one. A good 10 should fill the room nicely. You can also hide it easier so it's not out in the middle of the floor. That was one of my goals when I built my system. Both of my subs are hidden, the Bose is in a cabnet and the Sony is behind the TV. I'll take some pictures later to show you what I did.

[enkeivette]

If you can, you need to get a matching center channel speaker to go with the four you already have. Otherwise as the sound moves from one side in the front to the other it will cound different between the speakers. As for a sub, with 8 inch woofers in the main speakers you won't need a huge one. A good 10 should fill the room nicely. You can also hide it easier so it's not out in the middle of the floor. That was one of my goals when I built my system. Both of my subs are hidden, the Bose is in a cabnet and the Sony is behind the TV. I'll take some pictures later to show you what I did.

For once I disagree with you, 10s are too tiny for a living room. I have two 15" subs in my bedroom. We used to have an 18" sub in our living room and 2 15" woofers.

A 10 rarely has the balls to make good bass below 45hz. A good 12 could do it, but most 12 can't even handle making bass down to 30hz.

Also, bose speakers suck. Bose will not let anything out of their factory unless there is a 500% profit margin. And the frequency response is shit. They shock you with too much treble and too much mid bass to stun your ears and cover the fact that their 2" woofers sound like poopy.

Did I mention that my Dad is a speaker engineer who has also done work for JBL and that I worked as a speaker tech for a pro loud speaker company for two years? Then I worked at Best Buy for a year and began to realize how crappy the merchandise really is.

[Vettezuki]

For once I disagree with you, 10s are too tiny for a living room. I have two 15" subs in my bedroom. We used to have an 18" sub in our living room and 2 15" woofers.

A 10 rarely has the balls to make good bass below 45hz. A good 12 could do it, but most 12 can't even handle making bass down to 30hz.

Also, bose speakers suck. Bose will not let anything out of their factory unless there is a 500% profit margin. And the frequency response is shit. They shock you with too much treble and too much mid bass to stun your ears and cover the fact that their 2" woofers sound like poopy.

Did I mention that my Dad is a speaker engineer who has also done work for JBL and that I worked as a speaker tech for a pro loud speaker company for two years? Then I worked at Best Buy for a year and began to realize how crappy the merchandise really is.


I have no idea how it came to be that people think mountains of bass is a good thing, probably some sort of primal thing. If you're going for physical feeling with explosions from movies and whatnot, you're basically right about the size needed for woofers and subs. That is if the intention is to have something you more feel nearly as much as hear.

Unless you're pumping a lot of gansta rap and hip hop, I'm not so sure larger than 12 is required on your main stack and 10s would be fine. I guess what I'm saying is (depending on the room too!) 12s on your mains with a 15 sub would be plenty for bass in most typical house settings.

(You have two 15s in your tiny bedroom. Trying to turn your room into a vibrator or something? :laugh:)

[94cobra69ss396]

For once I disagree with you, 10s are too tiny for a living room. I have two 15" subs in my bedroom. We used to have an 18" sub in our living room and 2 15" woofers.

A 10 rarely has the balls to make good bass below 45hz. A good 12 could do it, but most 12 can't even handle making bass down to 30hz.

Also, bose speakers suck. Bose will not let anything out of their factory unless there is a 500% profit margin. And the frequency response is shit. They shock you with too much treble and too much mid bass to stun your ears and cover the fact that their 2" woofers sound like poopy.

Did I mention that my Dad is a speaker engineer who has also done work for JBL and that I worked as a speaker tech for a pro loud speaker company for two years? Then I worked at Best Buy for a year and began to realize how crappy the merchandise really is.

You must have a really big family room then. My Sony has dual 10's powered by 500 watts RMS and I had to turn it down some because it was too much bass and made the whole room shake. I do agree with you that the Bose stuff sucks but it fit my room the way I wanted and was as much as I could afford at the time. My personal preferrence would be to have 4 Polk Audio LSi25's for the front/rear R/L and Polk Audio LSiC for the center channel. Then use a Velodyne Optimum-10 subwoofer.

[BRUTAL64]

For once I disagree with you, 10s are too tiny for a living room. I have two 15" subs in my bedroom. We used to have an 18" sub in our living room and 2 15" woofers.

A 10 rarely has the balls to make good bass below 45hz. A good 12 could do it, but most 12 can't even handle making bass down to 30hz.

Also, bose speakers suck. Bose will not let anything out of their factory unless there is a 500% profit margin. And the frequency response is shit. They shock you with too much treble and too much mid bass to stun your ears and cover the fact that their 2" woofers sound like poopy.

Did I mention that my Dad is a speaker engineer who has also done work for JBL and that I worked as a speaker tech for a pro loud speaker company for two years? Then I worked at Best Buy for a year and began to realize how crappy the merchandise really is.


Speakers seem to be in the family. :drink:

This is the stuff I need to hear/read.:thumbs_up:



Do you run your system up till your ears bleed?:judge:

[BRUTAL64]

You must have a really big family room then. My Sony has dual 10's powered by 500 watts RMS and I had to turn it down some because it was too much bass and made the whole room shake. I do agree with you that the Bose stuff sucks but it fit my room the way I wanted and was as much as I could afford at the time. My personal preferrence would be to have 4 Polk Audio LSi25's for the front/rear R/L and Polk Audio LSiC for the center channel. Then use a Velodyne Optimum-10 subwoofer.

"My personal preferrence would be to have 4 Polk Audio LSi25's for the front/rear R/L and Polk Audio LSiC for the center channel. Then use a Velodyne Optimum-10 subwoofe"

This is that kind of thing I'm looking for. Stuff to check out and specs to work with.:bigthumbsup:

[BRUTAL64]

You guys can try and "TECH" me out here. I'll keep up.:thumbs_up::drink:

[BRUTAL64]

I have no idea how it came to be that people think mountains of bass is a good thing, probably some sort of primal thing. If you're going for physical feeling with explosions from movies and whatnot, you're basically right about the size needed for woofers and subs. That is if the intention is to have something you more feel nearly as much as hear.

Unless you're pumping a lot of gansta rap and hip hop, I'm not so sure larger than 12 is required on your main stack and 10s would be fine. I guess what I'm saying is (depending on the room too!) 12s on your mains with a 15 sub would be plenty for bass in most typical house settings.

(You have two 15s in your tiny bedroom. Trying to turn your room into a vibrator or something? :laugh:)

Main stack--I think I know what you mean--but????????????:drink:

[Vettezuki]

Main stack--I think I know what you mean--but????????????:drink:

I'm simply referring to your Main Stereo Left/Right speakers, as opposed to Center channel, or satellites.

[94cobra69ss396]

Main stack--I think I know what you mean--but????????????:drink:

He means your main speakers in your case an 8 inch woofer.

Here is my system.

RCA 54" TV. You can see the Bose front L/R up on the wall and the center in behind the black screen just above the TV in the cabinet. By the way if anyone is interested in a built in cabinet like this my uncles furnature store made this one.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0707.JPG

Sony sub. It has dual 10's one down firing and one front firing powered by 500 watts rms. I hid it behind the TV.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0706.JPG

This is the Bose subwoofer and it is hidden in the cabinet.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0710.JPG

Audio/video gear.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0708.JPG

Left surround.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0711.JPG

Right surround.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0712.JPG

[BRUTAL64]

I'm simply referring to your Main Stereo Left/Right speakers, as opposed to Center channel, or satellites.

You see this is what I need to know. You only need to tell me once. So define center channel and satellites...if you don't mind?:drink:

[94cobra69ss396]

You see this is what I need to know. You only need to tell me once. So define center channel and satellites...if you don't mind?:drink:

Read this. Speaker placement is very important to sound quality. I moved my front right speaker out about 15 inches from where I originally installed it and it made a huge difference in the balance of the system.

http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/learningcenter/home/speaker_placement.html

[BRUTAL64]

He means your main speakers in your case an 8 inch woofer.

Here is my system.

RCA 54" TV. You can see the Bose front L/R up on the wall and the center in behind the black screen just above the TV in the cabinet. By the way if anyone is interested in a built in cabinet like this my uncles furnature store made this one.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0707.JPG

Sony sub. It has dual 10's one down firing and one front firing powered by 500 watts rms. I hid it behind the TV.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0706.JPG

This is the Bose subwoofer and it is hidden in the cabinet.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0710.JPG

Audio/video gear.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0708.JPG

Left surround.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0711.JPG

Right surround.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/100_0712.JPG

Very nice!!! You do nice work!!:thumbs_up::drink:

[BRUTAL64]

Read this. Speaker placement is very important to sound quality. I moved my front right speaker out about 15 inches from where I originally installed it and it made a huge difference in the balance of the system.

http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/learningcenter/home/speaker_placement.html

I'm reading/watching your link. Thanks!:thumbs_up::drink:

[enkeivette]

Speakers seem to be in the family. :drink:

This is the stuff I need to hear/read.:thumbs_up:



Do you run your system up till your ears bleed?:judge:

No, I actually have very sensitive hearing. It's not aboot loudness, it's aboot depth, it's aboot respect! It's aboot dignity! ...Watching too much South Park.

Ben, yes, I am of the belief that when shit blows up in a movie, you should feel it. I'm all about that 20Hz material, when you can't tell if you're hearing it or feeling it. You can make more than enough loudness at mid bass frequencies in a room with a lil 10" but a 10" can't produce deep bass with sufficient volume for any size room. Sorry if I'm breaking any hearts.

[94cobra69ss396]

Very nice!!! You do nice work!!:thumbs_up::drink:

Thanks but I didn't have to do much. I bought this house new so I was able to have the speakers wires placed in the walls where I wanted them as it was being built. It worked out good except I had to move the one speaker to balance it better.

I just helped my father-in-law set up his though and it was a lot of work. We did the same thing in his house that I did in mine which is small speakers (he used Kenwood) mounted up on the walls. We first positioned the speakers to where we thought we wanted them and listened to how it sounded. Once we got the postioning down we mounted them on the walls. Then we had to run the wires though the walls up to the celling and back out. We then ran them along the wall at the celling over to the wall where the receiver was and then back down the inside of the wall to a box that we installed for the wires to connect to. We then installed crown molding to hide all the wires. It looks good and sounds good but it took a lot of time to complete but is well worth the effort.

[Vettezuki]

. . . Ben, yes, I am of the belief that when shit blows up in a movie, you should feel it. I'm all about that 20Hz material, when you can't tell if you're hearing it or feeling it. You can make more than enough loudness at mid bass frequencies in a room with a lil 10" but a 10" can't produce deep bass with sufficient volume for any size room. Sorry if I'm breaking any hearts.

About this you are correct sir.

[BRUTAL64]

Thanks but I didn't have to do much. I bought this house new so I was able to have the speakers wires placed in the walls where I wanted them as it was being built. It worked out good except I had to move the one speaker to balance it better.

I just helped my father-in-law set up his though and it was a lot of work. We did the same thing in his house that I did in mine which is small speakers (he used Kenwood) mounted up on the walls. We first positioned the speakers to where we thought we wanted them and listened to how it sounded. Once we got the postioning down we mounted them on the walls. Then we had to run the wires though the walls up to the celling and back out. We then ran them along the wall at the celling over to the wall where the receiver was and then back down the inside of the wall to a box that we installed for the wires to connect to. We then installed crown molding to hide all the wires. It looks good and sounds good but it took a lot of time to complete but is well worth the effort.


So are you up to help everyone on Motorgen to set up their stuff?:leaving:



Just kidding.:p