25 is another magic number.

[enkeivette]

http://i33.tinypic.com/312vj29.jpg

Yes, most 16 year olds are morons. No, I wouldn't give the keys to a car with a limited slip differential to 99% of the 16 year olds out there. But driver skill is driver skill, there are professional race car drivers 21, 22 years of age that can drive better than anyone on this forum.

I'm 24, and I'd be willing to bet that I drive better than 95% of the 45 year olds out there. It's about reaction time and experience pushing cars limits, and the knowledge of how the car will react.

[Vettezuki]

....It's about reaction time and experience pushing cars limits, and the knowledge of how the car will react.

Mmm, I'd say it's about being mature enough not to push a cars limits on public roads, hence not giving such a car to a 16 year old, and perhaps taking it away from some 24 year olds. :smack:

[Durango_Boy]

I got my first Vette when I was 18. I think I was very responsible with the car, and rarely ever let my ego drive the car for me...except one night when I annihilated a Galant GTX, or whatever the turbo version is called. I had a full car length on him by 90 MPH and he gave up at a bit under 100.

It was 2 am, I had NOT been drinking, and there were no other cars around.

I look back, and it was stupid and I don't act that way on public streets at all anymore, but I have to admit it was a lot of fun I feel I learned a lot about myself as a driver that night.

Before that, the fastest I had been was 140, in a 1991 Taurus GL.

[enkeivette]

I've hit 140mph NA, and it was easy. I look forward to pegging out the speedo at 160 next time I get a safe straightaway.

I used to slam on the gas and get into a fishtail, rock it back and forth trying to get the car as sideways as possible.

Now when I step on the gas I will lose traction easily in the first 3 gears, I enjoy feeling the rear end slide out from behind me at 90 mph.

I frequent carbon canyon road and try to average 80mph, yes average.

I'll hit up parking lots when it rains, do some donuts, get bored, then practice drifting.

No I'm not mature, yes I waste lots of gas. But my reaction time and skill enables me to do so, without ever having been in an accident. I trust myself at 160mph motre than I trust 90% of the drivers on the road at 25 mph. I'm quick, I'm safe with my mayhem (I only do it when there are no other cars in sight) I push my own limits at a gradual rate, this is the only way to learn. But in rushhour traffic, you'll never see me on the side of the road with a smashed front end. I'd rather ride shotgun in an F1 car with a pro driver (if that were possible) than ride shotgun with my grandma driving to the super market, I'd feel safer.

There is a very small percentage of people that can control a car well, and if they have the control to push a cars limits, then it is safe. Most people, should not drive a car, in any condition, whether they're 16, 36, or 56.

[Sonic03SVT]

id be real careful on carbon canyon. I drive it a couple times a week and there has been a rather disconcerting number of black and whites with radar guns even at odd hours (like, after midnight even)

[Vettezuki]

id be real careful on carbon canyon. I drive it a couple times a week and there has been a rather disconcerting number of black and whites with radar guns even at odd hours (like, after midnight even)

It's because SoCal cities are going broke, I mean it's for public safety. :smack:

[Vettezuki]

. . .
There is a very small percentage of people that can control a car well, and if they have the control to push a cars limits, then it is safe. . .

You're kind of assuming the conditions are known and static. Say you're going blasting through Carbon Canyon, there was an accident earlier in the day on a curve, a bit of oil is left on the road. . . at this point it's up to fortune, not your skill. I can come up with an infinite number of plausible scenarios that you couldn't react to fast enough.

Michael Schumacher had some pretty awesome car control I'd say, drove under completely controlled conditions, and he occasionally (rarely) made mistakes and got out of shape. The notion you can often push a high performance car near it's limits under highly controlled conditions, let alone public roads, and never get into trouble defies the laws of probability plain and simple. Put me in your Will, I always wanted a Jet Ski. :judge:

[Durango_Boy]

It's because SoCal cities are going broke, I mean it's for public safety. :smack:


Don't we all just LOVE speed traps? (**)

[enkeivette]

id be real careful on carbon canyon. I drive it a couple times a week and there has been a rather disconcerting number of black and whites with radar guns even at odd hours (like, after midnight even)

I've noticed that, all around town. I was speeding in the Neon last week, and I saw that prick in the DARE SUV pointing the radar at me. I slowed down real quick, turned into the driveway that he was in and quickly got lost in the neighborhood behind him. The driveway was too tight for him to have made a u turn, he would have had to 3 point it. I don't know whether or not he followed me, I got lost fast, but I do know that I was hit with the radar while speeding and I don't have a ticket. He gave me a mean stare when I turned in front of him.

You're kind of assuming the conditions are known and static. Say you're going blasting through Carbon Canyon, there was an accident earlier in the day on a curve, a bit of oil is left on the road. . . at this point it's up to fortune, not your skill. I can come up with an infinite number of plausible scenarios that you couldn't react to fast enough.

Michael Schumacher had some pretty awesome car control I'd say, drove under completely controlled conditions, and he occasionally (rarely) made mistakes and got out of shape. The notion you can often push a high performance car near it's limits under highly controlled conditions, let alone public roads, and never get into trouble defies the laws of probability plain and simple. Put me in your Will, I always wanted a Jet Ski. :judge:

I could stop faster in my Vette going 80mph than my grandma could in her Oldsmobile going 50, easily. (Taking into account braking force, traction, and reaction time - that's the big one.) If you want to put a dead car in the middle of the road taking up both lanes around a blind corner at night with the lights off... then anyone is going to hit. You're talking about luck, I'm talking about control.

And yes, part of being in control of the car is knowing the track conditions and not pushing the road unless you can do so safely.

[Vettezuki]

. . . If you want to put a dead car in the middle of the road taking up both lanes around a blind corner at night with the lights off... then anyone is going to hit. You're talking about luck, I'm talking about control.

Sure, but the result of hitting it at 40mph vs. 80mph is catastrophic.

And yes, part of being in control of the car is knowing the track conditions and not pushing the road unless you can do so safely.

My point is, unless you pre-drive just before making a high-speed pass AND have spotters on a 2-way, you CANNOT know the "track" conditions. Listen, I push a little, but well below the limits of the Vette or even myself. That is what race tracks are for. Period.

[enkeivette]

Ben, we're never going to settle this. Let's race down carbon canyon, first one out wins the argument. :D

[Vettezuki]

Ben, we're never going to settle this. Let's race down carbon canyon, first one out wins the argument. :D

It'll be settled as soon as you realize I'm right. :smack: BTW, did you replace that bracket I welded for you?

[enkeivette]

It'll be settled as soon as you realize I'm right. :smack: BTW, did you replace that bracket I welded for you?

:leaving:

[Vettezuki]

:leaving:

Just put me in your Will . . . soon.

[BRUTAL64]

All this is real intersting, but also funny at the same time. You want people to THINK and DRIVE at the same............ It won't happen.:laugh:

[CorruptCulture]

But my reaction time and skill enables me to do so, without ever having been in an accident.

It only takes one accident for you to change you mind on that one... It's not always your fault. I think I am a fantastic driver and I have avoided a few situations that I believe most people would have gotten into accidents. But I've also been fucked in a situation where there's nothing left to do but brace for impact.

My point is, you're in for a humbling experience one day with that attitude.

[enkeivette]

It only takes one accident for you to change you mind on that one... It's not always your fault. I think I am a fantastic driver and I have avoided a few situations that I believe most people would have gotten into accidents. But I've also been fucked in a situation where there's nothing left to do but brace for impact.

My point is, you're in for a humbling experience one day with that attitude.

If you were rear ended, there's rarely a way to avoid that, and it's not your fault. You guys are really focusing too much on my cockiness and missing the point. The point is:

Driver skill, reaction time, and experience have more to do with being a good driver than being over 24 years of age. I was referencing my agressive driving to stress the point that it's really not about holding your hands at two and ten, some of the best drivers I know push their cars limits on a regular basis. Being a good driver has more to do with personal skill, and less to do with age and making a full stop at every stop sign.

Not to mention, pushing your cars limits (whether it be on a race track or on the street, the asphault doesn't care what you call it) will provide experience thereby improving driver skill.

K, done explaining this. This really isn't something I thought anyone would argue about.

[CorruptCulture]

I think you're just missing the overall point of what that guy was saying and when Ben was reiterating... it's more about maturity than any of those things you listed.

[enkeivette]

I think you're just missing the overall point of what that guy was saying and when Ben was reiterating... it's more about maturity than any of those things you listed.

http://www.formula1.com/photos/597x478/manual/gallery_image_main_30_8.jpg

vs.

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/53/94/22819453.jpg

Extreme example, but it illustrates the point.

[Vettezuki]

Extreme example, but it illustrates the point.

Grandma is way more mature than those two numb nuts.

[enkeivette]

Grandma is way more mature than those two numb nuts.

Exactly my point, and therefore she must be a better driver, right? :rolleyes: Those are F1 car drivers BTW.

[Vettezuki]

Exactly my point, and therefore she must be a better driver, right? :rolleyes: Those are F1 car drivers BTW.

Yeah, I follow F1. Can you name the race?

[Leedom]

I have to agree that maturity does not equate to safety on the road. Adam makes a good point in saying that driving skill, understand the cars limits, ect, have a lot to do with it. The problem is that most kids 16 to 23 think they are good drivers. Age is not exclusive to driving ability but the more hours, day, years you have behind the wheel to a point is important. Adam, the problem is that you always talk about exceptions to the rule. Most people 30-40 years old are beter drivers than kids in the teens. Statistics prove that. You may be a better driver than lots of people older than you but once again you are most likely the exception to the rule.

[enkeivette]

I have to agree that maturity does not equate to safety on the road. Adam makes a good point in saying that driving skill, understand the cars limits, ect, have a lot to do with it. The problem is that most kids 16 to 23 think they are good drivers. Age is not exclusive to driving ability but the more hours, day, years you have behind the wheel to a point is important. Adam, the problem is that you always talk about exceptions to the rule. Most people 30-40 years old are beter drivers than kids in the teens. Statistics prove that. You may be a better driver than lots of people older than you but once again you are most likely the exception to the rule.

Well put.