Hey Ford, Build This

[Vettezuki]

Well, I love Corvettes a lot. But since they stole my tax money to prop up a failing business model and hand over ownership to the government and Union, they are dead to me. I'm truly sorry for all the good people in the organization, but having chosen this path I won't give them a penny voluntarily.

So, since I'm a red blooded American guy, Ford gets first crack and my scrilla next time around. Unfortunately, while the Mustang is a wonderful car in a lot of ways, it's not quite my cup of tea. So here's my build requirements and price tag.

<= 2,800 lbs
Foot print no larger than current base Vette preferably even smaller
400~ BHP
2 seater
Front Mid Engine
SLA with true coil overs all around
Brembo level brake package
Conventional 6 speed manual

Price $55k~

Name. I don't know. But how but dusting off Thunderbird and doing it right for once. Engine could be Coyote 5.0 or Ecoboost based.

There's your blueprint.

[SeanPlunk]

Well, I love Corvettes a lot. But since they stole my tax money to prop up a failing business model and hand over ownership to the government and Union, they are dead to me. I'm truly sorry for all the good people in the organization, but having chosen this path I won't give them a penny voluntarily.

So, since I'm a red blooded American guy, Ford gets first crack and my scrilla next time around. Unfortunately, while the Mustang is a wonderful car in a lot of ways, it's not quite my cup of tea. So here's my build requirements and price tag.

<= 2,800 lbs
Foot print no larger than current base Vette preferably even smaller
400~ BHP
2 seater
Front Mid Engine
SLA with true coil overs all around
Brembo level brake package
Conventional 6 speed manual

Price $55k~

Name. I don't know. But how but dusting off Thunderbird and doing it right for once. Engine could be Coyote 5.0 or Ecoboost based.

There's your blueprint.

It'll never happen. I don't think with the current crash standards it would be possible to get a mass produced car down to the 2800lb range. Hell, Ferrari doesn't even have any cars that weigh less than 3300lbs at this point...

[Vettezuki]

It'll never happen. I don't think with the current crash standards it would be possible to get a mass produced car down to the 2800lb range. Hell, Ferrari doesn't even have any cars that weigh less than 3300lbs at this point...

I know. It's just what I want. It is technically possible, but would require all carbon fiber monocoque, aluminum , magnesium . . . not a piece of iron or steel. With full-tilt yankee now how, I think it might even possible for less than $100k if engineered from scratch.

I'm only suggesting a direction. What I want, is Ford Corvette. :pot_stir:

Probably just end up with something nice like a Panoz, which is the closest to what I described.

[Leedom]

I don't think that unless you want a compact you are gonna find many if any cars less than 3K lbs with the crash standards of today unless you are paying a hell of a lot more than $55K

[Vettezuki]

You guys are getting stuck on one detail. Read between the lines. . .

[Leedom]

I really do not see Ford building anything remotely like what you have here. They do not want to create competition for the Mustang. I am all for the SLA though.

[Vettezuki]

I really do not see Ford building anything remotely like what you have here. They do not want to create competition for the Mustang. I am all for the SLA though.

That's my point. It would be a Ford Corvette, for lack of a better word. As Chevy has the Camarao (Mustang) AND the Corvette. Plenty of room, if done correctly. While the Camaro is doing well at the moment, and I certainly have no idea how things will play out over time, but if some trends (Ford down considerably less than GM) continue as they are, Ford will be able to extend its winning streak from people like me (yes there's more than one, I know, shocking) who regard GM as poison now.

[BRUTAL64]

Why don't your build you own? I have a catalog if you want.:bigthumbsup:

[eric97srad]

?That's my point. It would be a Ford Corvette, for lack of a better word. As Chevy has the Camarao (Mustang) AND the Corvette.

Think Ford GT - except FR, 200-400 lbs lighter knock it down about $75-100k MSRP and obviously more production...

Ultimately they tried the "Ford Corvette" idea and as far as performance is concerned they did pretty well... but as far as bang for the buck (which is why we choose Ford to begin with, right?) it was way too over-the-top.

I see what you're talking about - and I agree that this is a great time to do it with GM's current stats.. but I have to agree more with the other guys - Ford will not do it.. I obviously have love for Ford - but as good of an opportunity as it may be - they aren't capable of seizing that opportunity.



All IMO - so feel free to blast at will :bigthumbsup:

[BlacknBoostn]

my car is 2900 lbs... 100 lbs to go and then another 150whp/tq
just to make you happy i'll pull out the rear seats... oh and if you'll pay for it i'll swap it into a RWD monster. That'd be sick.

[Vettezuki]

my car is 2900 lbs... 100 lbs to go and then another 150whp/tq
just to make you happy i'll pull out the rear seats... oh and if you'll pay for it i'll swap it into a RWD monster. That'd be sick.

My list of things to pay for is rather large, but I'll keep it in mind. ;)

But honestly, I think Ford could kill with something like their version of a Vette. Bring back the Cobra in its original intent. Something like a slightly bigger MX-5 with more masculine styling and a Coyote motor. That should be in the very low 3,000 lb range.

[BRUTAL64]

My list of things to pay for is rather large, but I'll keep it in mind. ;)

But honestly, I think Ford could kill with something like their version of a Vette. Bring back the Cobra in its original intent. Something like a slightly bigger MX-5 with more masculine styling and a Coyote motor. That should be in the very low 3,000 lb range.


Like I said, why don't you build your own. Shouldn't take you longer that 6 months. Something like that , I would help you build it:judge:.

[Vettezuki]

Like I said, why don't you build your own. Shouldn't take you longer that 6 months. Something like that , I would help you build it:judge:.


I'm talking about new production cars. I can always roll my own if I don't like what's being offered in the future.

[Vettezuki]

I'm talking about new production cars. I can always roll my own if I don't like what's being offered in the future.

I'd also like to see Ford go straight for GM's jugular, no mercy, no compassion. Raise their villages to the ground, sew salt in their fields . . .corporately speaking of course. :judge:

[BRUTAL64]

I'd also like to see Ford go straight for GM's jugular, no mercy, no compassion. Raise their villages to the ground, sew salt in their fields . . .corporately speaking of course. :judge:

I agree with you completely. But, for some reason, FORD is not trying to cut GM off at the Knees. They have said that they would not--maybe not in those words---in some of their quotes that I have read.:confused:

[Vettezuki]

I agree with you completely. But, for some reason, FORD is not trying to cut GM off at the Knees. They have said that they would not--maybe not in those words---in some of their quotes that I have read.:confused:

Hopefully it's not some misguided sense of patriotism/nationalism. Now more than ever the United States desperately needs fundamentally strong companies, not leeches on the public coffers. As soon as a company takes loans from the government, that's one thing, as soon as they are forgiven it is no longer a business but a charity case by any accounting. We've gotten entirely too touchy feely about this, to our own eventual demise if we don't figure it out fast. As sad as it may be, thinning the herd will strengthen the remaining entities and make them far more able to compete in the fierce marketplace of tomorrow.

[BRUTAL64]

Hopefully it's not some misguided sense of patriotism/nationalism. Now more than ever the United States desperately needs fundamentally strong companies, not leeches on the public coffers. As soon as a company takes loans from the government, that's one thing, as soon as they are forgiven it is no longer a business but a charity case by any accounting. We've gotten entirely too touchy feely about this, to our own eventual demise if we don't figure it out fast. As sad as it may be, thinning the herd will strengthen the remaining entities and make them far more able to compete in the fierce marketplace of tomorrow.

In the Fifties and Sixties GM and FORD went at it tooth and nail. So now, no kicking when the other is down. Damn! Where have the real men gone?:crutches:

[BADDASSC6]

It'll never happen. I don't think with the current crash standards it would be possible to get a mass produced car down to the 2800lb range. Hell, Ferrari doesn't even have any cars that weigh less than 3300lbs at this point...

Bullshit! It can be done with modern crash standards! Cars in the U.S. are going to get much smaller in order to meet the new CO2 emissions standards. You put a LS2 in a Solstice and youare practically there. Add a few of the light wieght tricks used on the Z06 and it is very achievable. you don't need a carbon fiber monoque chassis for these wieght numbers.

[SeanPlunk]

Bullshit! It can be done with modern crash standards! Cars in the U.S. are going to get much smaller in order to meet the new CO2 emissions standards. You put a LS2 in a Solstice and youare practically there. Add a few of the light wieght tricks used on the Z06 and it is very achievable. you don't need a carbon fiber monoque chassis for these wieght numbers.

True, I believe the Mallet Solstice only weighs 3030lbs or something like that. I guess I was just thinking that if they can't keep a Z06 below 3200lbs they could never get a normal car below 2800lbs.

[Vettezuki]

True, I believe the Mallet Solstice only weighs 3030lbs or something like that. I guess I was just thinking that if they can't keep a Z06 below 3200lbs they could never get a normal car below 2800lbs.

I should have been a little more clear on size/weight. Something smaller than the current Vette would be just fine, I don't know about as small an MX-5, Solstice,etc., because such a short wheel base has it's own issues at high speeds.

What I really mean is simply somewhat smaller, light as reasonably possible for a production car, high power:weight, two door two seat coup in the $50k range. I don't think it'd compete with the Mustang in the Pony Car ragne, though it may present problems for the Shelby and KR range, that's for the brand people to figure out. Ford does a great job with these, but they don't currently offer a "sports car". I guess that's all I'm really asking for, or would be quite curious for. I can't imagine they aren't thinking about it at all. :huh:

[Vettezuki]

Also, let's remember that Ford has a much better image overall in Europe, especially the UK where it is regarded as almost a domestic brand. If they played their cards right on the design front, I think it could be more globally successful than Corvette.

[Vettezuki]

Let me make this live a little bit since we're stuck on abstractions.

See Photos Below:

Don't need lambo doors, polished aluminum, big V10 or other show car bits.

- Work around this styling direction
- Perhaps downsize a bit, roughly between Vette and Solstice footprint
- Coyote seems like a great powerplant base, no need for battleship engine
- Fully independent double wishbone (SLA) suspension with true coil overs
- Front mid-engine layout
- DO.NOT shortcut on interior. Euro standards are minimum. Clean simple, but quality materials and world class fit and finish. If you hear anybody saying "that's good enough . . . who cares" fire them immediately.

- Weight
-- 2,800 Holy Grail Ideal
-- 3,000 Awesome!
-- 3,200 Fine, reasonable target for large scale production IMO
-- 3,400 Kinda weak sauce, losing the plot
-- 3,600 Stick to Mustangs


Hey, looks like a Ford too. :nuts:

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/855/gr1concept05_02_1024_w800.jpg

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/855/gr1concept05_01_w800.jpg


This is a little ham-fisted to me. See Aston Martin for some great looking tails.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/855/gr1concept05_13_1024_w800.jpg

This interior shows potential, but is definitely a bit flat and too monochromatic.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/855/gr1concept05_inter_w800.jpg

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/855/gr1concept05_12_w800.jpg

Great nose.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/855/gr1concept05_03_w800.jpg

Now this profile has great potential for capturing a retro look and (slightly Daytona Coupe) and yet still modern.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/855/gr1concept05_09_w800.jpg


Gallery of GR-1 Concept. (http://motorgen.com/pic/showgallery.php/cat/855)


Get this right and it'll kill world round.

[eric97srad]

Make that a vertical rear window and I'm sold.

[BRUTAL64]

There is something wrong with the rear look. I'm not sure how to put it. Just not right.:p

[Vettezuki]

There is something wrong with the rear look. I'm not sure how to put it. Just not right.:p

It's disproportionately heavy compared to the front because of the slope from the roof line to the tail.

[eric97srad]

There is something wrong with the rear look. I'm not sure how to put it. Just not right.:p

like i said... vertical rear window... to the likes of 70ish(?) vettes...

[BRUTAL64]

like i said... vertical rear window... to the likes of 70ish(?) vettes...

You mean a "tunnel" roof line?

[eric97srad]

You mean a "tunnel" roof line?

yea - what you said. :bang:

[Vettezuki]

Here's something even a bit closer to what I was talking about for overall size and stance (though rear mid). The Germans (a new company formed from suppliers named Artega) are building it. Note weight at around 2,400- 2,500 lbs and 300BHP.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/870/artega-gt-1.jpg

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/870/artega-gt-11_48.jpg

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/870/artega-gt.jpg

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/870/Artega-GT-preview-1.jpg

[big2bird]

Let me make this live a little bit since we're stuck on abstractions.

See Photos Below:

Don't need lambo doors, polished aluminum, big V10 or other show car bits.

- Work around this styling direction
- Perhaps downsize a bit, roughly between Vette and Solstice footprint
- Coyote seems like a great powerplant base, no need for battleship engine
- Fully independent double wishbone (SLA) suspension with true coil overs
- Front mid-engine layout
- DO.NOT shortcut on interior. Euro standards are minimum. Clean simple, but quality materials and world class fit and finish. If you hear anybody saying "that's good enough . . . who cares" fire them immediately.

- Weight
-- 2,800 Holy Grail Ideal
-- 3,000 Awesome!
-- 3,200 Fine, reasonable target for large scale production IMO
-- 3,400 Kinda weak sauce, losing the plot
-- 3,600 Stick to Mustangs


Hey, looks like a Ford too. :nuts:

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/855/gr1concept05_02_1024_w800.jpg

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/855/gr1concept05_01_w800.jpg


This is a little ham-fisted to me. See Aston Martin for some great looking tails.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/855/gr1concept05_13_1024_w800.jpg

This interior shows potential, but is definitely a bit flat and too monochromatic.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/855/gr1concept05_inter_w800.jpg

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/855/gr1concept05_12_w800.jpg

Great nose.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/855/gr1concept05_03_w800.jpg

Now this profile has great potential for capturing a retro look and (slightly Daytona Coupe) and yet still modern.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/855/gr1concept05_09_w800.jpg


Gallery of GR-1 Concept. (http://motorgen.com/pic/showgallery.php/cat/855)


Get this right and it'll kill world round.

I illuminated that car at the last car show. Quite the head turner, and it sounds mean. Like Glenn said, the back sucks. Hell, even as a Vette guy, I think the C-5 and C-6 rear end sucks.

[Douglas Mariani]

I illuminated that car at the last car show. Quite the head turner, and it sounds mean. Like Glenn said, the back sucks. Hell, even as a Vette guy, I think the C-5 and C-6 rear end sucks.

I like the looks of the GR-1 Concept(except the rear end).......and me being a C6 owner I don't think the rear end sucks....but Chevy could/should have improved on it.

[Vettezuki]

I like the looks of the GR-1 Concept(except the rear end).......and me being a C6 owner I don't think the rear end sucks....but Chevy could/should have improved on it.

The bumble butt of the C5/6s never bothered me that much, just a bit big and plain. But hey folks, guess where some of the legendary Vette cargo space comes from. Seriously, it's like more than a Civic.

I just want ford to build a mid-size, light, good handling, genuine sports car.

[big2bird]

The bumble butt of the C5/6s never bothered me that much, just a bit big and plain. But hey folks, guess where some of the legendary Vette cargo space comes from. Seriously, it's like more than a Civic.

I just want ford to build a mid-size, light, good handling, genuine sports car.

They do. It's called a Jaguar.

[Vettezuki]

They do. It's called a Jaguar.

You think a Jag is mid-sized and light. :sm_up_there:

[BRUTAL64]

Jaguar Cars Ltd., better known simply as Jaguar is a manufacturer of luxury and executive motor cars, headquartered in Coventry, England, and now operated as part of the Jaguar Land Rover business owned by Tata Motors of India.

[big2bird]

You think a Jag is mid-sized and light. :sm_up_there:

When I was a kid, yes. I still like the new one.

[Vettezuki]

When I was a kid, yes. I still like the new one.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/jaguar-e-type1.jpg

:thumbs_up:

[big2bird]

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/jaguar-e-type1.jpg

:thumbs_up:

My childhood dream car, except a tad later. I liked the series 1 with the covered headlights. Very advanced for the time period.

[Vettezuki]

Okay, I've almost got it figure out.

Mazda, which is an affiliated company for Ford built the great RX-7, peaking with the FD. One of hte truly great engine swap cars in the world is an RX-7 with an LSx. They have EVERYTHING I'm asking for here. Maybe Ford/Mazda could do a modern take on this design. It couldn't be called the RX-7 because of that car's rotary history. But, the design, balance and handling is awesome. So, something like a current take on this design:

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/500/CleanRedFD.jpg


With Ford's new Coyotoe 5.0, and Bob's your uncle.

[SeanPlunk]

Okay, I've almost got it figure out.

Mazda, which is an affiliated company for Ford built the great RX-7, peaking with the FD. One of hte truly great engine swap cars in the world is an RX-7 with an LSx. They have EVERYTHING I'm asking for here. Maybe Ford/Mazda could do a modern take on this design. It couldn't be called the RX-7 because of that car's rotary history. But, the design, balance and handling is awesome. So, something like a current take on this design:

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/500/CleanRedFD.jpg


With Ford's new Coyotoe 5.0, and Bob's your uncle.

Yes, seeing those RX7's last night reminded me what a gorgeous car they are :hail:

[BADDASSC6]

Light american sports car discussion and no mention of the Solstice/Sky. I wish that GM would drop the v6 from the trailblazer in and stiffen the suspension. They dominated SCCA t2 or t3. Maybe the 5.3L v8 from the colorado.

[Vettezuki]

Yes, seeing those RX7's last night reminded me what a gorgeous car they are :hail:

That was my point of inspiration and as we know the all aluminum LS1 doesn't screw up their balance or total weight at all really. Poof 2,800lbs, 400+HP in an exceptionally well balanced and well proportioned car. They may have to use some expensive tech here and there to keep the weight down, and comply with current crash standards, but it really should be doable.

[Vettezuki]

Light american sports car discussion and no mention of the Solstice/Sky. I wish that GM would drop the v6 from the trailblazer in and stiffen the suspension. They dominated SCCA t2 or t3. Maybe the 5.3L v8 from the colorado.

GM is dead to me.

In purely technical terms your point out is an obvious direction but keep in mind the LQ truck motors are iron block, aluminum heads and weigh about 80lbs more than a similarly dressed LS motor. I'm not positive on the layout of those cars but I think a V8 installation is going to put some of that weight out over the front axle. Not the end of the world (Audi manages amazingly) but not "ideal".

[SeanPlunk]

That was my point of inspiration and as we know the all aluminum LS1 doesn't screw up their balance or total weight at all really. Poof 2,800lbs, 400+HP in an exceptionally well balanced and well proportioned car. They may have to use some expensive tech here and there to keep the weight down, and comply with current crash standards, but it really should be doable.

LS7 + 3rd Gen RX7 = WIN

[Chate]

Jaguar Cars Ltd., better known simply as Jaguar is a manufacturer of luxury and executive motor cars, headquartered in Coventry, England, and now operated as part of the Jaguar Land Rover business owned by Tata Motors of India.

I'll take an XK-R...and technically i could proclaim "indian pride" while doing it too! Take that, american muscle! Curry country aint no joke!! :bigthumbsup: