What car do you think is fast!

[BADDASSC6]

I have been calling people out on the SD meets FB page for talking shit on American cars. Basically, I'm bullying to the mentally weak. Here is what I don't get. How people think some cars are fast.
For example:

-I have seen fast civic hatches both road racing and drag, but I've never seen a fast S2K other than on the internet.

-I have never seen a fast Subaru anything period. They are effectively Miatas; cool looking, trendy, and only competitive on autocrosses.

-I've only seen fast Supras drag racing.

-I've never seen a fast RX-8. Regardless of type of motorsport I've just have never seen it.

-The new SS suck dick. I've seen one fast one. and it had a very large blower.

-As much as I hate to admit it, GTRs are fast. You have to be on your A game to hang with them in a Corvette. It can be done and I've done it, but they are fast.

***The only disclaimer that I make is that these are observations that I have made at amateur racing events and I am obviously not including what I have seen on Youtube / Streetfire / TV

[Damian]

My only thing is that American cars are heavy beasts and have to have a lot of horse power to compensate. Granted the Vette isn't heavy though. The Evo can make some great power out of a 4 banger, I made great power in my Eclipse with a V6 turbo (was slow stock). When you look at a bone stock car, not too many American cars are fast. And the new Mustang Cobras are not stock.

[Vettezuki]

Do you run into any upper end Porsches or Ferraris at your level? I would think a GT3 RS would be pretty fast. :huh:

[Shaolin Crane]

I've seen a couple 9 Second SS maros before they closed fontucky. Never actually seen a fast supra, just big dyno numbers, I've seen plenty of 11 second subies.

[Vettezuki]

<< As much as I hate to admit it, GTRs are fast. You have to be on your A game to hang with them in a Corvette. It can be done and I've done it, but they are fast.

I don't know if you remember, but we sorta kinda met over at Digital Corvettes talking a bit of smack on the R35 AIR. And I feel the same generally. They obviously built something pretty damned effective in a variety of contexts. Apparently the new Nismo GT-R is going to be just over 2 seconds to 60 from the factory. Damn little on this planet has that kind of off the line explosion.

Within the plausible range of what I could afford (if I wanted to shift goals that is), if I were buying American I'd be all about the C7. I dig it. I just love NA V8s and the swagger of Vettes. If I were buying foreign it'd be a toss up between the GT-R and Turbo Porsche. I actually lean towards the Turbo Porsche as an all arounder because it's a bit smaller with excellent visibility and apparently rides pretty well, where the GTR is a little harsh, while obviously working in all weather and being on the whole "refined". Unfortunately it's fuck all expensive to maintain.

Anyway, the "fastest" drag car on Motorgen remains a Civic. Pure race car though. You're the fastest road course car that I'm aware of. Ron has the most impressive all arounder, including back seats and entertainment system(!). I'll probably keep futzing with my C3 and over the years turn it into something completely unique, relatively fast, functional. Lot's of cool niche stuff here among an otherwise small group. It's why I keep the bar open to be honest.

Sorry for the ramble.

[94cobra69ss396]

Anyway, the "fastest" drag car on Motorgen remains a Civic. Pure race car though. You're the fastest road course car that I'm aware of. Ron has the most impressive all arounder, including back seats and entertainment system(!).

I'm still gunning for that Civic with the Chevelle so that I have the fastest drag car on here but with the little I have planned I'm not going to beat it. I'm just hoping to break into the 9s.

As for the Cobra, I really don't consider it fast. Compared to most daily driven cars I guess it is but to me it's not. It is a fun all arounder though. Plus I don't have any idea what it'll run in a quarter mile now.

[Shaolin Crane]

I guess I can finally be in the running to take out that civic. I can just keep upping the boost until iI make it. Though my trans might not take it.

[94cobra69ss396]

Your car isn't going to run in the 9s.

[Shaolin Crane]

If it makes in the 700 HP range it might

[94cobra69ss396]

Not with the way it's set up it won't.

[Shaolin Crane]

No harm in trying, the trans is the weak link but there might be a 3link...

[BADDASSC6]

Evo X: 3,527 lbm 2013 Mustang GT Premium: 3,483 Lbm Just saying.

and

Yes Porsche GT3's and GT3's RS are very fast. I've seen ones that are WTC level of preparation run 1:47's at the Roval.

So here is my point.

-The fasted Drag car here is a Civic well guess what I've seen a lot of fast civics. Evo's came up. Everyone has seen a fast Evo. They are almost at the Vette Viper where you expect them to haul ass an you worry about what mod have been done. I still haven't seen a fast NSX or a fast Subaru not online. There maybe a couple of shops like AEM or GST that have them, but I haven't seen then in person and I haven't seen any on the street.

[BADDASSC6]

Now the GTR. The weakest link in motorsports for 99% of the population is the driver. I took the Mustang drag racing and dropped half a second on the 1/8 without changing anything including air pressure. I went autocrossing with it and in 4 runs went from a 51 sec run to a 46 second run. The GTR (and the Evo) really will drive itself. All the driver needs to do is know the line and braking points. As soon as the car is turned in bam, full throttle! Missed upshifts, no problem. Rev matching downshifts, no problem. Abrupt steering and throttle inputs, no problem.
I cant tell you the incredible amount of joy that I felt when that GTR spun in front of my in turn three at the Roval. That guy pushed it further than the computer could handle. FUCK YEAH MURICA!

[Vettezuki]

. . . That guy pushed it further than the computer could handle. . .

For now.

KAIZEN mothafuckas.

[Shaolin Crane]

I know of guys with fast NSX's. The problem is they baby them like no other, won't let mechanics drive them, won't let models touch them, etc etc

[Vettezuki]

I know of guys with fast NSX's. The problem is they baby them like no other, won't let mechanics drive them, won't let models touch them, etc etc

That's a princess, not a fast car. There are definitely fast NSXs in Japan though, both racing and Wangan etc. There's also obviously fast Subies in WRC.

BTW, Carlos, as you know the C7 Z51 is getting more sophoisticated with driver aids too. It has rev matching now, and apparently a pretty good e-diff. Stock vs. stock I'm sure the average guy would be considerably faster in a C7 than C6 for these (and other) reasons.

[Leedom]

Evo X: 3,527 lbm 2013 Mustang GT Premium: 3,483 Lbm Just saying.

I read that the next Mustang besides having the IRS will be about 400 lbs lighter. That would be pretty sweet.

[BADDASSC6]

There is no basis to say a car is fast if it hasn't been to the track. To many of these young bitches think just bolting up parts makes cars fast, but the cars never get sorted out. Again, I've never seen a fast NSX at the track. I've seen NSX's with Comptech Superchargers, mugen everything, and Endless brake get handled by EG civics with H22a or K20 motor swaps.
Yes the new vette has a lot more user aids than the C6. The base C7 pulls 1.08g on a skid pad, goes 60 in 3.8 secs, and traps 117 from the factory. The electronic differential is awesome. They first came on Evo's and GTR's, but now Ferrari and GM are using them. Huge difference. When the funds are available I will get a TORSEN for my Corvette. I instantly noticed it on the stang.
If the new Z model has a dual clutch transmission I will have to rob a bank.

[BADDASSC6]

I will go one step further. I've seen fast Miata's at an Autocross. Never saw a fast NSX.

[Vettezuki]

There is no basis to say a car is fast if it hasn't been to the track. To many of these young bitches think just bolting up parts makes cars fast, but the cars never get sorted out. Again, I've never seen a fast NSX at the track. I've seen NSX's with Comptech Superchargers, mugen everything, and Endless brake get handled by EG civics with H22a or K20 motor swaps.
Yes the new vette has a lot more user aids than the C6. The base C7 pulls 1.08g on a skid pad, goes 60 in 3.8 secs, and traps 117 from the factory. The electronic differential is awesome. They first came on Evo's and GTR's, but now Ferrari and GM are using them. Huge difference. When the funds are available I will get a TORSEN for my Corvette. I instantly noticed it on the stang.
If the new Z model has a dual clutch transmission I will have to rob a bank.

Ferrari has had e-diffs for a while (at least 430?), but the Japanese have had AWD trickery since the 90s that was pretty sophisticated AFIK.

[BADDASSC6]

Ferrari has had e-diffs for a while (at least 430?), but the Japanese have had AWD trickery since the 90s that was pretty sophisticated AFIK.

AWD since the 90's yes, but I haven't drank the Kool-Aid on AWD yet. Now electronic differentials are fairly new. Evo was the first that I know of. Subaru still doesn't us it.

Now having driven both. Evos rotate great and pretty much do what you tell them. Lets say you put some stiffer sway bars on an Evo. Still handles great first time out. The stability system measures the drivers inputs and senses the cars motion and make then match.

Subaru don't measure the drivers input. The mechanical differentials will do what ever they are going to do. Slap some sway-bars on a subaru and if they are good then the car will handle well if not it will go to shit. Regardless plan on having to adjust air pressures, alignment,...........

[BADDASSC6]

No harm in trying, the trans is the weak link but there might be a 3link...

You could get one of those fancy Nitrous kits that sprays off the line and automatically cut when the boost builds.

Running 9's is not easy though. Even with lots of money. Ron what mods are you doing to the Chevelle?

[Shaolin Crane]

You could get one of those fancy Nitrous kits that sprays off the line and automatically cut when the boost builds.

Running 9's is not easy though. Even with lots of money. Ron what mods are you doing to the Chevelle?

wouldn't need it. With how the blower is set up I made 11lbs by 3200. I'll use meth for the extra fuel though.

[BADDASSC6]

wouldn't need it. With how the blower is set up I made 11lbs by 3200. I'll use meth for the extra fuel though.

11lbm by 3200 rpm. Is that good? Hopefully you are making some decent power before 11 lbm a of boost.

[Shaolin Crane]

11lbm by 3200 rpm. Is that good? Hopefully you are making some decent power before 11 lbm a of boost.

Yes, peak boost is around 15psi so I won't need off the line grunt, we'll see exactly, last time we couldn't make a clean pass, had some timing issues and compression issues. However Ron and I made identical power, but he's a 347. it'll have less under the curve but much more HP

[fiveohwblow]

There is no basis to say a car is fast if it hasn't been to the track. To many of these young bitches think just bolting up parts makes cars fast, but the cars never get sorted out. Again, I've never seen a fast NSX at the track. I've seen NSX's with Comptech Superchargers, mugen everything, and Endless brake get handled by EG civics with H22a or K20 motor swaps.
Yes the new vette has a lot more user aids than the C6. The base C7 pulls 1.08g on a skid pad, goes 60 in 3.8 secs, and traps 117 from the factory. The electronic differential is awesome. They first came on Evo's and GTR's, but now Ferrari and GM are using them. Huge difference. When the funds are available I will get a TORSEN for my Corvette. I instantly noticed it on the stang.
If the new Z model has a dual clutch transmission I will have to rob a bank.

No basis from one mans perspective, not another's. many don't care to go to a timed event and would rather just enjoy the butt dyno or risk a street competition. In no way does this designate a car slow or "not fast"

That said, I sadly report the fastest cars I have been in were mostly mustangs from my local clubs. I've been in and driven variants of other cars from exotics to Gm's but none of them were wildly
Modified.

[94cobra69ss396]

Ron what mods are you doing to the Chevelle?

I'm currently running a 1.6 rocker ratio and will be going to a 1.8. With the 1.6 rocker my lift is only .585. With a 1.8 my lift will be .658. I'm also going with an X-pipe and better flowing mufflers. The final change will be tuning the nitrous kit on a dyno. With the 250 jets I think the AFR is too rich which is causing a slight bog off the line. I think I can pick up my .01 from those changes.


Yes, peak boost is around 15psi so I won't need off the line grunt, we'll see exactly, last time we couldn't make a clean pass, had some timing issues and compression issues. However Ron and I made identical power, but he's a 347. it'll have less under the curve but much more HP

That was before I fixed everything. I made 22 rwtq more than you when we both went and I'm making an additional 35 rwtq now.

[94cobra69ss396]

No basis from one mans perspective, not another's. many don't care to go to a timed event and would rather just enjoy the butt dyno or risk a street competition. In no way does this designate a car slow or "not fast"

That said, I sadly report the fastest cars I have been in were mostly mustangs from my local clubs. I've been in and driven variants of other cars from exotics to Gm's but none of them were wildly
Modified.

My Chevelle is the fastest car I've been in. My brother had a friend with an all steel '55 Chevy that use to run 9 flat up at LACR. It would pulled the front wheels on the street. He rode in it once and said the launch was like getting hit in the chest, it was hard to breath. And that was their slow car. His dad had a twin turbo Anglia that ran in the 7s.

[BADDASSC6]

No basis from one mans perspective, not another's. many don't care to go to a timed event and would rather just enjoy the butt dyno or risk a street competition. In no way does this designate a car slow or "not fast"

That said, I sadly report the fastest cars I have been in were mostly mustangs from my local clubs. I've been in and driven variants of other cars from exotics to Gm's but none of them were wildly
Modified.

And that's the problem. Perspective. Yup how many FAST cars with tons of horsepower have you seen go to the track and run shit numbers?

Way too many to count.

Perspective it bullshit. It's like saying you're the coolest man in you own tiny little world. Yeah you're cool, .........faggot. Butt dyno = Bullshit; Actual dynos are even bullshit to an extent. They are only an indicator of what a car is theoretically capable of, but it's not actually doing shit.

My actual point is though. When you bought your fox did you buy it because you read about it in a magazine or because you knew guys were running them at the track and they performed?

In the case of the NSX: guys swear by them, but when was the last time you went out and saw one do better than mid-pack? Guys like me will go to a car meet, car show, tuning shop and see a NSX all done up. I will say to the owner "Hey man nice car" they will say "thanks whats is your car". When I tell then it's a vette then here comes the I smoke those all the time bullshit. Same thing with the S2k crowd the Subaru's.

[Vettezuki]

What is "fast" at the strip?
What is "fast" at the Roval, Willow Springs, etc.?

[fiveohwblow]

And that's the problem. Perspective. Yup how many FAST cars with tons of horsepower have you seen go to the track and run shit numbers?

Way too many to count.

Perspective it bullshit. It's like saying you're the coolest man in you own tiny little world. Yeah you're cool, .........faggot. Butt dyno = Bullshit; Actual dynos are even bullshit to an extent. They are only an indicator of what a car is theoretically capable of, but it's not actually doing shit.

My actual point is though. When you bought your fox did you buy it because you read about it in a magazine or because you knew guys were running them at the track and they performed?

In the case of the NSX: guys swear by them, but when was the last time you went out and saw one do better than mid-pack? Guys like me will go to a car meet, car show, tuning shop and see a NSX all done up. I will say to the owner "Hey man nice car" they will say "thanks whats is your car". When I tell then it's a vette then here comes the I smoke those all the time bullshit. Same thing with the S2k crowd the Subaru's.



Wait, two things confused me from this post.

1. Perspective is bullshit? Isn't this thread asking everyone for their opinion which is directly correlated with perspective and a direct result of individual experience?

2. Did you just call me a faggot?

[Shaolin Crane]

That was before I fixed everything. I made 22 rwtq more than you when we both went and I'm making an additional 35 rwtq now.
I was referring to horsepower, we were only 1hp IIRC. You're always going to have the torque advantage, i'll have the HP advantage.

[Shaolin Crane]

And that's the problem. Perspective. Yup how many FAST cars with tons of horsepower have you seen go to the track and run shit numbers?

Way too many to count.
This is more from the owner not driving the car to it's potential cause they never do. Many car owners, even many forums members don't go out with the intention of fucking things up like we do. I've taken friends cars 2 seconds faster in drag events simply for this reason, many of them won't let me drive them any more either ;)
Perspective it bullshit. It's like saying you're the coolest man in you own tiny little world. Yeah you're cool, .........faggot. Butt dyno = Bullshit; Actual dynos are even bullshit to an extent. They are only an indicator of what a car is theoretically capable of, but it's not actually doing shit.
Many don't participate in sporting events, it in no way makes the car slow, power numbers or not, if I pull up next to an LP-640 i'm gonna have a hard time winning regardless
My actual point is though. When you bought your fox did you buy it because you read about it in a magazine or because you knew guys were running them at the track and they performed?
Justin and I are similar in why our foxes are what they are, I saw one as a kid and knew I would have one, my step mom had an 85 that I thought was ugly, ask anyone in my family and sadly I wanted a fox since I was a kid.
In the case of the NSX: guys swear by them, but when was the last time you went out and saw one do better than mid-pack? Guys like me will go to a car meet, car show, tuning shop and see a NSX all done up. I will say to the owner "Hey man nice car" they will say "thanks whats is your car". When I tell then it's a vette then here comes the I smoke those all the time bullshit. Same thing with the S2k crowd the Subaru's.

Maybe, most of my NSX buddies don't claim shit cause they won't drive them hard, stance nation auto show off bullshit. Driver makes the time more than the car does, we all know this.

Ron and I don't care if our cars get banged up while we use them, others and not so willing to use their cars that way. Ron and I have always made the joke that to beat the nicer car all you have to do is swerve a little too close, and it's true.

[BADDASSC6]

Wait, two things confused me from this post.

1. Perspective is bullshit? Isn't this thread asking everyone for their opinion which is directly correlated with perspective and a direct result of individual experience?

2. Did you just call me a faggot?

1) no I didn't call you a faggot. It would be very clear if I was calling you a faggot.

2) Read the OP again. The whole basis of the opening post is calling out cars owners that think they are fast with no basis. I'm not sure how you got it confused.

[Shaolin Crane]

1) no I didn't call you a faggot. It would be very clear if I was calling you a faggot.

2) Read the OP again. The whole basis of the opening post is calling out cars owners that think they are fast with no basis. I'm not sure how you got it confused.

He didn't get it confused, saying a car isn't fast cause it's never been to the track isn't exactly the end all be all. Would you say Adam's car is slow?

[fiveohwblow]

He didn't get it confused, saying a car isn't fast cause it's never been to the track isn't exactly the end all be all. Would you say Adam's car is slow?

This. I'm not confused at all. I was simply pointing out , as various others have, that's there is quite a bit of ambiguity due to perspective and bias. Hard to define fast as a standard.

[BADDASSC6]

Originally Posted by BADDASSC6
And that's the problem. Perspective. Yup how many FAST cars with tons of horsepower have you seen go to the track and run shit numbers?

Way too many to count.
This is more from the owner not driving the car to it's potential cause they never do. Many car owners, even many forums members don't go out with the intention of fucking things up like we do. I've taken friends cars 2 seconds faster in drag events simply for this reason, many of them won't let me drive them any more either

-Your logic is that cars don't perform because they are not driven hard. So why do 80% of the new 5.0s you see at the track run hard and 90% of the SS suck dick? By your logic it's because the 5.0 owners drive harder and are more willing to through caution to the wind and wad their cars up. By your logic Evo drivers are more aggressive and skilled drivers than STI drivers.
Here is reality: AN NSX is a slow POS. I have personally seen a COMPTECH SC NSX get smoked by a LS1 SS with the factory cam and longblock. Slap some chamber plates, springs and shocks on the SS and it will go faster than the NSX on the twisties. I know this because I have seen it. NSX is like the the new BRZ, all the value is placed on the driving experience. Lap times and numbers were not a priority. The 2.8L or 3.2 L makes N/A two rotor wankel torque. The FX motorsports NSX has a fully built motor on boost and spray with MASSIVE aero to be competitive. Not to mention the Ringer they use for a driver. I cannot believe some one let you drive their car. J/K. I an happy to hear that you have actually been to the track. I started to believe that all your knowledge was simply internet based.

Perspective it bullshit. It's like saying you're the coolest man in you own tiny little world. Yeah you're cool, .........faggot. Butt dyno = Bullshit; Actual dynos are even bullshit to an extent. They are only an indicator of what a car is theoretically capable of, but it's not actually doing shit.

Many don't participate in sporting events, it in no way makes the car slow, power numbers or not, if I pull up next to an LP-640 i'm gonna have a hard time winning regardless

-You just made my point: LP-640 is slow. You may think it's fast because of what you saw on the internet. At a track it's EVO IX fast (stock). Why there are so many 9-10 sec Gallardos, but how many 9 sec LP-640's are there? Because it's a piece. It was developed before Audi took over and it's a one trick pony. LP-640 are not quick and don't handle however they do top out like a champ.
-Not going to sporting events blah blah blah drivers blah blah you are just stating the obvious. I took the stang to the roval and smoked a Boss, ZL1 and a Superleggera only because of driving.
-In the other thread you thought your stang was going to run 9's and make 700 hp?? What happened.

My actual point is though. When you bought your fox did you buy it because you read about it in a magazine or because you knew guys were running them at the track and they performed?

Justin and I are similar in why our foxes are what they are, I saw one as a kid and knew I would have one, my step mom had an 85 that I thought was ugly, ask anyone in my family and sadly I wanted a fox since I was a kid.

You just told me when you knew you wanted a fox. You didn't answer the question asked which was why you wanted a fox? The "Basis" of your decision. When you were a kid did you know Fox's were quick? BTW, That was a question for Justin

So since we struggle with reading comprehension I will try to dumb it down. Motorgen is an Automotive enthusiast site. What ever from that takes for an individual. If guys talk about performance then logic leads me to believe that they purchased a vehicle to suite their performance needs. So why is this decision made by so many base on what youtube, magazines, forums tell them and not what they see kicking ass on the track, the streets, or the trail.

[BADDASSC6]

He didn't get it confused, saying a car isn't fast cause it's never been to the track isn't exactly the end all be all. Would you say Adam's car is slow?

Fuck yeah adams car is slow!!!!!!! It may be scary, but it's slow.:drink:

[BADDASSC6]

This. I'm not confused at all. I was simply pointing out , as various others have, that's there is quite a bit of ambiguity due to perspective and bias. Hard to define fast as a standard.

So in the OP I referred to many different types of motorsports Drag, road, auto-cross....... I intentionally said fast because it's descriptive enough to make the point. Why would you buy a performance car and claim it can perform if is just doesn't. I even made a the internet / youtube disclaimer because obviously with enough money you can make anything fast.
You guys are trying to take this down the what is fast rabbit hole. That's not what was written in the OP.

[fiveohwblow]

So in the OP I referred to many different types of motorsports Drag, road, auto-cross....... I intentionally said fast because it's descriptive enough to make the point. Why would you buy a performance car and claim it can perform if is just doesn't. I even made a the internet / youtube disclaimer because obviously with enough money you can make anything fast.
You guys are trying to take this down the what is fast rabbit hole. That's not what was written in the OP.

Not trying to take it the wrong way Carlos. In fact, I agree with you immensely and you are making the point I have always discussed in person with other enthusiasts but actually much better, so for that hats off.

As to my car, Guy was spot on. I bought it solely on looks. I realize some people might even have a visceral response to that and that's fine. When I was 7 years old in the 80's I thought it was the coolest car ever. I had no inclination of speed. It was only after purchasing one at the age of driving (15) that I realized its potential and began building and educating myself.

[Shaolin Crane]

-Your logic is that cars don't perform because they are not driven hard. So why do 80% of the new 5.0s you see at the track run hard and 90% of the SS suck dick? By your logic it's because the 5.0 owners drive harder and are more willing to through caution to the wind and wad their cars up. By your logic Evo drivers are more aggressive and skilled drivers than STI drivers.
I go to the track every week and see slow 5.0's, slow everything. I've also seen a 6 second Ice Cream truck, are ice cream trucks fast?
Here is reality: AN NSX is a slow POS. I have personally seen a COMPTECH SC NSX get smoked by a LS1 SS with the factory cam and longblock. Slap some chamber plates, springs and shocks on the SS and it will go faster than the NSX on the twisties. I know this because I have seen it. NSX is like the the new BRZ, all the value is placed on the driving experience. Lap times and numbers were not a priority. The 2.8L or 3.2 L makes N/A two rotor wankel torque. The FX motorsports NSX has a fully built motor on boost and spray with MASSIVE aero to be competitive. Not to mention the Ringer they use for a driver. I cannot believe some one let you drive their car. J/K. I an happy to hear that you have actually been to the track. I started to believe that all your knowledge was simply internet based.
I'm not arguing, I've stated the same thing many times. And whether you believe my knowledge is "internet" based. I went every thursday for years and dragged either my trucks or my car. That's where I met my ex, many close friends etc. Were they fast? Not particularly, but an 8.8 out a my dually and a 90mph trap speed in my 08 was pretty damn good. Stock motor fox I ran an 8.5. Fast nope, but I have a damn near perfect reaction time. That doesn't happen with internet knowledge. Do I prefer drag racing? Nope, but i'll take what I can get. Did I crash a ClubLexus car meet at irwindale in my truck and end up being the 5th fastest time and reaction time? Yup. I know what I know cause my hands have done it. I've stated many times I enjoy the build probably more than the use, doesn't mean I don't use them
-You just made my point: LP-640 is slow. You may think it's fast because of what you saw on the internet. At a track it's EVO IX fast (stock). Why there are so many 9-10 sec Gallardos, but how many 9 sec LP-640's are there? Because it's a piece. It was developed before Audi took over and it's a one trick pony. LP-640 are not quick and don't handle however they do top out like a champ.
It's fast, I've driven one. Though, I just have internet knowledge.
-Not going to sporting events blah blah blah drivers blah blah you are just stating the obvious. I took the stang to the roval and smoked a Boss, ZL1 and a Superleggera only because of driving.
-In the other thread you thought your stang was going to run 9's and make 700 hp?? What happened.
It should make 600hp but I said there's nothing stopping me from shooting for 9's and in excess of 700hp if I need do. My block was the weak link, no longer.

You just told me when you knew you wanted a fox. You didn't answer the question asked which was why you wanted a fox? The "Basis" of your decision. When you were a kid did you know Fox's were quick? BTW, That was a question for Justin
My step mom never took her car over 2000rpm. I wanted it because I like the car, I liked how it looked and liked the areo even more. I was 4 years old, I had no clue was fast was, or even what the car was for years. Just wanted it.
So since we struggle with reading comprehension I will try to dumb it down. Motorgen is an Automotive enthusiast site. What ever from that takes for an individual. If guys talk about performance then logic leads me to believe that they purchased a vehicle to suite their performance needs. So why is this decision made by so many base on what youtube, magazines, forums tell them and not what they see kicking ass on the track, the streets, or the trail.
I didn't buy my trucks for performance needs, neither my mustangs. They certainly didnt suit what I wanted them to do out of the box. Even slightly.

[Vettezuki]

. . I intentionally said fast because it's descriptive enough to make the point.

This is my only real objection, you're attempting an objective argument with subjective terms. Fast is an impression or experience of speed, not a measurement of speed. You're assuming we agree on the scope and nature of a subjective term. That no worky so good unless we happen to agree, which we kind of don't, but you seemed to have assumed we would maybe.

Basically you're telling us what you think, not "what is." The first clue is an interrogative sentence ending with an exclamation point!

Why would you buy a performance car and claim it can perform if is just doesn't.


Uhh, cuz they think it does . . .which is well understand by manufacturers and marketers.

[BADDASSC6]

I didn't buy my trucks for performance needs, neither my mustangs. They certainly didnt suit what I wanted them to do out of the box. Even slightly.

If you insist on answering a question asked to someone else at least answer the question asked. There are a million reasons why you didn't buy the vehicle you are struggling stating why you did. Whatever reason you purchased your truck, you for sure got a tune on it and started modifying it. When I met you, you were jabbering about how bad ass it was.

[BADDASSC6]

Not trying to take it the wrong way Carlos. In fact, I agree with you immensely and you are making the point I have always discussed in person with other enthusiasts but actually much better, so for that hats off.

As to my car, Guy was spot on. I bought it solely on looks. I realize some people might even have a visceral response to that and that's fine. When I was 7 years old in the 80's I thought it was the coolest car ever. I had no inclination of speed. It was only after purchasing one at the age of driving (15) that I realized its potential and began building and educating myself.

Roger all. Understand that you have wanted a fox before you new what was fast.That makes sense.

[fiveohwblow]

Roger all. Understand that you have wanted a fox before you new what was fast.That makes sense.

Sadly, I parted with it a couple of months ago and not by my choice :(

I now rely on others for any speed.

[Shaolin Crane]

If you insist on answering a question asked to someone else at least answer the question asked. There are a million reasons why you didn't buy the vehicle you are struggling stating why you did. Whatever reason you purchased your truck, you for sure got a tune on it and started modifying it. When I met you, you were jabbering about how bad ass it was.

But I didn't buy it because it was intended to be fast. I bought it because it wasn't a dually, it was a better suspension design, smoother ride, quieter/nicer interior, better fuel economy, and most importantly not a dually. The fact that I was able to break traction at the 1000' mark was a bonus. Badass, sure. Still would be if I had a place to put my lift to fix it, since I don't, just another paper weight.

Again, bought my car cause I wanted that car. I had no knowledge of the engine, transmission, horsepower, interior. I was 4-5 years old and liked the car. Through my own experience I learned how much of a piece of shit the car was and what it needed to perform. Wait, scratch that. Internet told me what I needed to do, wait scratch that, bought them this way.

[BADDASSC6]

This is my only real objection, you're attempting an objective argument with subjective terms. Fast is an impression or experience of speed, not a measurement of speed. You're assuming we agree on the scope and nature of a subjective term. That no worky so good unless we happen to agree, which we kind of don't, but you seemed to have assumed we would maybe.

Ben, the question was what do you think is fast. If the whole OP is read it very clearly states what do you think is fast based on what you've seen at the track. It's subjective and based experiences.

Basically you're telling us what you think, not "what is." The first clue is an interrogative sentence ending with an exclamation point!

Uhh, cuz they think it does . . .which is well understand by manufacturers and marketers.

I told you what I think and the basis why I think that way. The problem is that Manufactures and marketeers understand that people are stupid. So they are selling shitboxes and fools think they are fast.

[Shaolin Crane]

i don't think it's the auto manufacturers as much as people are stupd. all it takes is one youtube video of a car beating a termi or a vette for a car to be labeled fast regardless of the circumstances. I'm with you completely. I think the BRZ/FRS is a piece of shit and it got spanked by a 4 door non ecoboost focus in a test race. But it goes both ways too, there are cars that are fast that no one recognizes.

End of the day there will always be people running theirs mouths, or their cars. Just gotta make sure its the latter.

[Vettezuki]

This is what led me to believe you were trying make a defensible point as opposed to express an opinion.

"What car do you think is fast!

Here is what I don't get. How people think some cars are fast. "

As for manufacturers, marketers, and "stupid" people they are doing and getting what they want. You can't really make interpersonal comparisons of utility very well. It would be interesting to know how many people REGRET their purchase on grounds of "it ain't as fast as I thought it would be."


BTW, ever seen an Ariel Atom or Caterham (Lotus 7 knockoff), or any Lotus for that matter? I would think they would all be pretty fast on a track, especially tighter more technical ones.

[Vettezuki]

i don't think it's the auto manufacturers as much as people are stupd. .

Uh, that's pretty much what he said. :huh:

[Shaolin Crane]

Uh, that's pretty much what he said. :huh:

Sorta, there are plenty of cars that are labeled as "fast" that were never intended to be as such. And vice versa.

What I was getting at is it seems that Domestics are the benchmark for comparing vehicles. A new car comes out and it's immediately compared to domestic options

[94cobra69ss396]

BTW, ever seen an Ariel Atom or Caterham (Lotus 7 knockoff), or any Lotus for that matter? I would think they would all be pretty fast on a track, especially tighter more technical ones.

I haven't seen an Ariel Atom in person but I've run faster times then both a Caterham and a supercharged Lotus Elise at a CSW autocross. I'm not sure about the Caterham but the Elise could have been faster with a different driver. The owner was a really nice guy though and let Phil and I sit in the car. I was surprised how much room there was for such a little car. Even at 6'5" Phil had plenty of room. It was also one of the most beautiful Elises I've ever seen. It looked a lot like this one with a splitter and wing.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3632/3499184371_fefdce8d6c_b.jpg

[BADDASSC6]

I've seen Atoms at the track they were ok. Disclaimer is that I haven't seen the V8 atom.

Elise's are fast. I have a nice video at the roval with a 211 it was fast. They are faster than I am at the smaller tracks (really only buttonwillow).

Caterhams are fast. They are a dark horse because you never know what you're going to get. At Buttonwillow or the streets they pretty much dominate. They run with the Radicals.

I am not super fast at buttonwillow since I kinda stopped going. I'm planning of making some trips there since it puts a lot less strain on the car.

[Vettezuki]

The V8 Atom looks completely insane. Until very recently it had the fastest ET on Top Gear, which is now held by a Pagani Huyara. The Huyara is only about 1 second slower than the Aston Martin Lemans race car from a few years back!

I've never seen a Radical in the states. Unlike the UK, I think it's impossible for them to be street legal, though I don't know who would want to. The Caterham and Atom look like they'd be ok to drive on the streets at least in small amounts.

What about a Noble? They have all the parameters for being fast. I know you've mentioned GTM as being all around similar to Vettes right?

[BADDASSC6]

Their are actually a lot of radicals in the states. They are a fast and relatively affordable track car. GTM, Nobles, the new superlite are all the same. They are about on par with a track only vette. All of the kit cars vary greatly depending on how much $$$$ was dropped into them. Could be an LS2 COuld be a TT C5R block.

I have seen a noble at the track and the GTM. GTM was faster noble was slower than my car. The GTM was an actual race car though.

[Vettezuki]

So, Carlos shows up to a Phoenix International Raceway and there are

Vettes
GTRs
GT3s
GTMs
Nobles
Atoms
Elises
Caterhams
Evos

Without knowing anymore than makes and models, based on past experience, who would you pick as the likely No. 1 for ET?

[BADDASSC6]

Phoenix International Raceway doesn't have drag racing and it's much tighter than the Roval so:

1) GT3 RS 4.0 / Caterham
2) GTR
3) Regular GT3
4)Vette
5)Atom / Noble / GTM
6) Evo

If this was Drag racing:

1) GTR
2) Vette
3) GTM
4) Everyone else doesn't matter.

You would know who is serious pretty quickly even before the cars hit the track based on mods though.

[Vettezuki]

The GTM really seems like a great total performance value. For well under $50k in you can be stomping around pretty good at the track and strip. Look pretty cool too. Though you can get a C6Z in great condition for well under $50k too.

[BADDASSC6]

I would to with the c6z just because it's a known quantity. I will say that if you want to go racing the GTM is awesome because it comes with a NASA cert cage

[Vettezuki]

are you falling project 818 at all? that looks like it might be an extreme high value track car.

[enkeivette]

All new sports cars are fast. Yours is just fucking ridic.

What Civic on here is faster than Rons Chevelle? And is it street/ strip or strictly drag?

[enkeivette]

My only thing is that American cars are heavy beasts and have to have a lot of horse power to compensate. Granted the Vette isn't heavy though. The Evo can make some great power out of a 4 banger, I made great power in my Eclipse with a V6 turbo (was slow stock). When you look at a bone stock car, not too many American cars are fast. And the new Mustang Cobras are not stock.

False. The C6 weighs as much as your Eclipse, maybe less.

When you look at American MUSCLE, they are all fast. They're all in the 12s and 13s nowadays. When you look at Jap sports cars, a few of them are fast, in the 13s, but I can think of only one that's faster. And unless you go AWD, the FWD ruins the car.

I mean, my mom's SRT4 is a fun car no doubt about it. And I had fun driving my friends turbo avenger this last weekend (FWD eclipse motor) but neither of them would ever be able to hang with anything RWD on a race track.

And I can't think of any Jap cars other than the Evo, STI, and the GTR that are anything but FWD.

[enkeivette]

And as far as a Civic being fast. It will never be as fast as an EQUIVALENTLY tuned muscle car. Why? Because thrice as much displacement is a good thing.

Sure, compare a trailered stripped down Civic with slicks on the front and a 10K race motor to a street/ strip muscle car and the Civic may be faster and in the 9s. But an equally ridiculous GNX or Nova will be in the 7s or 8s.

[Vettezuki]

. . . What Civic on here is faster than Rons Chevelle? And is it street/ strip or strictly drag?

Strictly drag. Paul Ho's 1994 Civic. Runs 9s > 150mph. Saw it myself, though I didn't catch it on video. Here's a slow run. .

Motorgen - Videos - Run 16 California Speedway June 7, 2008@@AMEPARAM@@value="file=/vid/data/515/Run_16_CSW_060708.flv&@@AMEPARAM@@515@@AMEPARAM@@Run_16_CSW_060708.flv

[enkeivette]

No basis from one mans perspective, not another's. many don't care to go to a timed event and would rather just enjoy the butt dyno or risk a street competition. In no way does this designate a car slow or "not fast"

x2.

[enkeivette]

Strictly drag. Paul Ho's 1994 Civic. Runs 9s > 150mph. Saw it myself, though I didn't catch it on video. Here's a slow run. .

Motorgen - Videos - Run 16 California Speedway June 7, 2008@@AMEPARAM@@value="file=/vid/data/515/Run_16_CSW_060708.flv&@@AMEPARAM@@515@@AMEPARAM@@Run_16_CSW_060708.flv

Figured. Then it's not really fair to compare it to Ron's street driven Chevelle. Compare it to that GNX we saw in the high 7s low 8s at Fontana.

[enkeivette]

This is my only real objection, you're attempting an objective argument with subjective terms. Fast is an impression or experience of speed, not a measurement of speed. You're assuming we agree on the scope and nature of a subjective term. That no worky so good unless we happen to agree, which we kind of don't, but you seemed to have assumed we would maybe.

Basically you're telling us what you think, not "what is." The first clue is an interrogative sentence ending with an exclamation point!




Uhh, cuz they think it does . . .which is well understand by manufacturers and marketers.


Um, I'm the lawyer here you logical prick.

[Shaolin Crane]

Strictly drag. Paul Ho's 1994 Civic. Runs 9s > 150mph. Saw it myself, though I didn't catch it on video. Here's a slow run. .

Motorgen - Videos - Run 16 California Speedway June 7, 2008 (http://motorgen.com/vid/showphoto.php/photo/467/cat/515/ppuser/463)

I didn't know it was that Civic, i've seen it a ton of times, in my neighborhood too I think.

[BRUTAL64]

:popcorn:

[BADDASSC6]

are you falling project 818 at all? that looks like it might be an extreme high value track car.

It will be. A lot will depend on what motor mods are done. Subarus have asthmatic top ends.

[BADDASSC6]

All new sports cars are fast. Yours is just fucking ridic.

What Civic on here is faster than Rons Chevelle? And is it street/ strip or strictly drag?

Lawyer logic:rolleyes:! By your "lawyer Logic the BRZ is fast from the factory. The Veloster is fast (pretty sure the veloster is powered by the souls of aborted fetuses).

My car is not ridiculous. I put a lot of work to make sure of that. I runs straight, true, and most importantly does exactly what you tell it (at least before the last batch of mods). I do think it's fast, why because the work required to make use of the power it makes has been done and when I take it to the track it's one of the top performing cars.

You corvette is crazier than mine (slower too:nutkick:). You have way more power and WAY less tire, brake, and suspension. :censored: nuts.

You wanna race? LS3 stroker versus procharged 383?

[BADDASSC6]

Adam, what kind of law are you practicing? I'm taking the LSAT in October. Thinking of doing intellectual property law.

[enkeivette]

I meant crazy as in, your car is a street driven indy car. Ha. Crazy in a good way! Your Corvette is super-car humbling, and it has fucked up your perception of what is fast.

The BRZ is NOT a sports car. It's an economy car. It's not a sports car unless it makes power.

Sure we can race if you want, but from a roll in a straight line :) ...unless you found some slicks for me :D It would be a waste of time to do anything else I'm sure. My car is stiff as shit, and handles a lot better than most people realize, but I know it wouldn't keep up with a purpose built C6. A better race would be you versus me, me driving your car, you driving mine... give you the handicap :)

I'll send you a PM

[enkeivette]

And I wouldn't say that I have way more power. You are in 600hp territory ya?

[BADDASSC6]

Yes. I have a batch of repairs and mods that are just finishing up. I hope to get to the dyno soon. I really just want to make sure AF is right and the motor is ready for the track.

[Vettezuki]

Can't believe I forgot the ACR Viper. That oughtta be fast on both track and strip and street legal from the factory for a very competitive overall price. You see many of them?

[enkeivette]

Yes. I have a batch of repairs and mods that are just finishing up. I hope to get to the dyno soon. I really just want to make sure AF is right and the motor is ready for the track.

Just buy an LM2 and weld in an exhaust bung. That way you can map out the rpm with the afr in real world conditions and temperatures.

[enkeivette]

Can't believe I forgot the ACR Viper. That oughtta be fast on both track and strip and street legal from the factory for a very competitive overall price. You see many of them?

Winning. 97 GTSR. I will own one from that gen someday.

[BADDASSC6]

Can't believe I forgot the ACR Viper. That oughtta be fast on both track and strip and street legal from the factory for a very competitive overall price. You see many of them?

ACR's are the shit. They are the fastest street car on a road course out of the box. IMO at least. They are a big reason why I went with the KW coilovers.

[enkeivette]

I've seen a couple 9 Second SS maros before they closed fontucky. Never actually seen a fast supra, just big dyno numbers, I've seen plenty of 11 second subies.

I've only seen fast supras at Fontana. Every Supra I saw there was deep in the 10s.

[94cobra69ss396]

I've never seen a Supra run faster than an 11 on a street legal day. There was even a Supra club there once and I heard a few of them talking in the tech line to other people saying how they made 800 rwhp. I expected 9's but they only went 11's.

[BADDASSC6]

I've seen Supra's on beast mode only when roll racing. They fastest Supra on a Road course ran 1:52 at the Roval. In college I had a very good friend with a RPS single turbo kit, that put down 850. The fastest I saw him run was an 11.6 @ 135. One of his friends ran a 10.2 @ 152. Fast, but way off for the MPH. I am not a Supra fan. They are a one trick pony.

[94cobra69ss396]

Who was your friend?

[BADDASSC6]

Dennis Walsh. He is still a good friend. Doing more road racing now. He was big on Supra forum as the " Real Deal". We were both on Formula SAE at Arizona.

[fiveohwblow]

Slurpie ran 10's this Saturday at PIR (Portland international raceway) fairly effortlessly with a less than stellar launch. Happens frequently at pir, but 9's have not happened while I attend. I too dislike them, but if that's your bag they can be relatively fun with little effort involved.

[enkeivette]

I've never seen a Supra run faster than an 11 on a street legal day. There was even a Supra club there once and I heard a few of them talking in the tech line to other people saying how they made 800 rwhp. I expected 9's but they only went 11's.

It was a private night, Ben was there. I have video of one run when the black 10 sec Supra botched the 60 foot, but then my camera died

[94cobra69ss396]

Slurpie ran 10's this Saturday at PIR (Portland international raceway) fairly effortlessly with a less than stellar launch. Happens frequently at pir, but 9's have not happened while I attend. I too dislike them, but if that's your bag they can be relatively fun with little effort involved.

What's Slurpie?

[Shaolin Crane]

Slurpie ran 10's this Saturday at PIR (Portland international raceway) fairly effortlessly with a less than stellar launch. Happens frequently at pir, but 9's have not happened while I attend. I too dislike them, but if that's your bag they can be relatively fun with little effort involved.
Should be called curry

[fiveohwblow]

What's Slurpie?

My nickname for shitty supras. I highly dislike them.

[Vettezuki]

My nickname for shitty supras. I highly dislike them.

Shitty 10 second Supras. :/

[fiveohwblow]

Shitty 10 second Supras. :/

Not my thing. If I could I would throw em in the bag full of dicks and corvettes and dispose of all gayness I would. But that's just me. ;)

[Vettezuki]

Well, you're certainly entitled to your shitty opinion. ;)

[fiveohwblow]

Well, you're certainly entitled to your shitty opinion. ;)

LOL

[BADDASSC6]

Not my thing. If I could I would throw em in the bag full of dicks and corvettes and dispose of all gayness I would. But that's just me. ;)

Well you can't fix stupid.

[fiveohwblow]

^ living proof

[BADDASSC6]

Well, you're certainly entitled to your shitty opinion. ;)

.....

[enkeivette]

Well, you're certainly entitled to your shitty opinion. ;)

Disagree, he doesnt like Supras or Corvettes, but he has dreams of Fords rip off of the Le Baron.

Next he'll be talking about how boobs are disgusting, chocolate is gross, and Scarlett Johansen is ugly.

[enkeivette]

Preemptive argument: If you dont think Scarlett Johansen is hot... fuck you. Rip off your dick, and fuck you.

[fiveohwblow]

Preemptive argument: If you dont think Scarlett Johansen is hot... fuck you. Rip off your dick, and fuck you.

HAHHAHA I wouldn't kick her out of bed for eating crackers but I also wouldn't trade her for my wife.


Also, I don't like chocolate much because I don't bleed out of my mid section monthly. Boobs are in the top 3 things God invented. Also you missed where I sold the fox. I'm still bummed about it asshole.

Lastly, I've never liked them aesthetically and have always acknowledged their performance. I was just rustling some jimmies. Whenever you tell a car guy you don't like their choices it's almost equal to being caught in bed when their wife. I find it rather humorous.

[Vettezuki]

...

Nice . . .

Probably should bump this sub-thread to DA.

[mdpalmer]

lol at this thread. If you really want to compare, you need the same cars at the same place with the same driver on the same day. Measure lap times, acceleration, etc. Otherwise it's he-said-she-said BS 95% of the time.

Anyway. This guy/CAR is fast IMO, if you don't think so, you need to lay off the crack pipe!

:D

Another half a second: down to a 1:27.04 at Willow Springs. - YouTube

Sub 1:30s at Willow Springs big track. Obviously this guy can drive. Check out his other vids, he has a corner-by-corner guide to the track which is awesome.

1972 Porsche 911
272 CRANK hp
2700 lbs with driver

[BADDASSC6]

That is fast. He really went fast through turns 8 and 9. He went through at 120-130. I was 10 mph slower on Hoosiers. I do have him buy 15-20 mph on the front straight. That Porsche is a momentum car and he can drive.

[enkeivette]

100 mph around a turn? That takes balls. I think it would take me some time to get comfortable with that. Shit happens a lot faster at 100 mph

[BADDASSC6]

On that turn yes. it's completely flat and if you get in the dirt you will damage your car. A lot. He is making up a ton of time there. Turn 9 is the second worse turn I have seen. It's reasonable, but if you fuck it up you're done. There was a death there in HPDE back in 2007 when a Mini Cooper got sideways on the exit of 9 over corrected and shot into the infield and rolled. I also saw a M3spin on the same exit and ping pong ball off of the pit entrance walls.

California Speedway is so banked that if you are doing <120 and you manage to spin the car will actually come down into the grass instead of going up into the wall. Thats why I will rock 140 at Cal, but not at Willow.

I am planning on attending with the Stang.

[mdpalmer]

Yeah that guy has major balls. If u look at some his vids you'll realize he's pretty familiar with that track and his car... been doing it a while. Definitley something any sane driver would have to work up to.

And yes... his cornering speeds are ridiculous. I've only been there twice... but I hear you on turn 8 and 9. I talked to a lady at the diner and one of the corner workers last time and both mentioned how many really bad wrecks and injuries happen there at turn 9.. Scary shit for sure. And going off track in turn two will definitely fuck your car up as u said.

Great if u could make it, I don't remember if you're on the track day email list.