Aluminum Radiators

[94cobra69ss396]

Second, Glenn, ditching the C3 fan shroud was a fantastic choice for me. That thing was more of a pain in the ass to get out than my heater core and brake pedal. Aluminum radiator with two electric fans mounted right to it, no shroud, car stays at 180 all day long.

What size radiator and fans are you using? Right now in the Chevelle I have a Be Cool radiator with a single 16 inch fan attached to it. I don't drive it very often but once I get it back together I plan on driving it every once in a while to pick my daugthers up from school. I've never had it get warm on me but I've never really sat in stop and go traffic for 20 minutes on a warm day either. I'm think about either running dual fans that will cover more area or getting a fan aluminum fan shroud.

[enkeivette]

No idea what size it is, stock C3 dimensions. Its 3" thick, made by Northern. Fans are two 12s. Thermostat is Painless. I tried a cheaper thermostat before and it broke.

If you already have a 16, maybe move it to one side and put a 10 at the other corner. Those fans are cheap on EBay and Amazon.

[BRUTAL64]

I guess I never gave you guys the truth about Alum rads....not a fan of them at all...only if you want to lose some weight.

[94cobra69ss396]

Mine works really good. I get the temp up to about 170-180 at the starting line and by the end of a pass it will drop down to 150-160 depending on the outside temp. On a really cold day (low 40's) I've had it drop down to 140.

[Vettezuki]

I guess I never gave you guys the truth about Alum rads....not a fan of them at all...only if you want to lose some weight.

Well, aluminum conducts heat much better than any steel alloy I'm aware of. What gives?

[94cobra69ss396]

Radiators are brass/copper.

[BRUTAL64]

Radiators are brass/copper.

See I know how smart you are...I had faith :judge:

[enkeivette]

Aluminum, brass, heat transfer rates blah blah who cares? I bought a brand new aluminum radiator when my stock one started leaking, for half the cost of an OE style replacement, with some cheap ebay fans. Now it's lighter, prettier, stays cool all day long, and reliable for going on a decade now. What's not to like?

[BRUTAL64]

Well, aluminum conducts heat much better than any steel alloy I'm aware of. What gives?

Rads are not made out of steel alloy...they are made out of copper/brass. Thermal elimination is better with copper/brass than alum. That is a fact of physics.

They are TWO real BIG problems with Alum rads...

class what are they??

class

class

anyone

anyone..:judge:

[enkeivette]

Mine works really good. I get the temp up to about 170-180 at the starting line and by the end of a pass it will drop down to 150-160 depending on the outside temp. On a really cold day (low 40's) I've had it drop down to 140.

Eek, thats cooler than my boat motor ran. Do you not run a thermostat?

[Shaolin Crane]

My massive aluminum radiator cost me around $100. Copper was 4x that

[enkeivette]

My massive aluminum radiator cost me around $100. Copper was 4x that

:iagree:

[Vettezuki]

See I know how smart you are...I had faith :judge:

I didn't know that. But brass is an alloy of copper and zinc, so how much better would depend on the alloy composition. From a thermal conductivity POV Copper > Aluminum > Zinc. But heck yes, if a radiator had a substantial portion of total copper it would be able to conduct more heat away from the coolant. But aluminum is very good as far as heat dissipation is concerned. It's also way more plentiful and cheap than copper.

[BADDASSC6]

I have a VERY large aluminum radiator int he vette runs 180 normal driving. 215 at the track.

[94cobra69ss396]

Glenn, aluminum corrodes. But aluminum also cools faster than copper.

Adam, I do have a thermostat but it's gutted so it really just a restrictor plate.

[Vettezuki]

Glenn, aluminum corrodes. But aluminum also cools faster than copper.

Adam, I do have a thermostat but it's gutted so it really just a restrictor plate.

Well, I unless I misunderstand the meaning of thermal conductivity, copper "conducts" far more heat than aluminum does.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/share/clip?f=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427ebahgudn978&mail=1

Copper sure as hell corrodes (copper oxide). It's usually regarded as aesthetically pleasing, like a patina. See all those green copper roofs in the old world. That's copper oxide. HOWEVER, brass, is an alloy with zinc, and is more resistant to being destroyed by oxidation, just kind of gets a tarnish. Aluminum almost instantly get's a layer of aluminum rust in the presence of oxygen, but it is very thin, non-destructive, and prevents further oxidation.

[94cobra69ss396]

Copper does absorb heat better than aluminum. The advantage of the aluminum radiator is in the tubes. Copper/brass radiators use smaller tubes like around a 1/2 -3/4 inch where an aluminum radiators uses wider tubes that are 1 to 1 1/2 inches wide which provides a larger cooling area. The radiator in the Chevelle has 1 1/2 tubes and seems to work fairly well even with the cheap electric fan.

[BRUTAL64]

Copper does absorb heat better than aluminum. The advantage of the aluminum radiator is in the tubes. Copper/brass radiators use smaller tubes like around a 1/2 -3/4 inch where an aluminum radiators uses wider tubes that are 1 to 1 1/2 inches wide which provides a larger cooling area. The radiator in the Chevelle has 1 1/2 tubes and seems to work fairly well even with the cheap electric fan.

That is true about the bigger tubes...but it can be a problem under CERTAIN circumstances.

[BRUTAL64]

Ok...Class there are two BIG problems with Alum rads...

What are they???

Waiting for an answer


Hint it is NOT that it corrodes:judge:

But it is similar.....actually it could be but not from water.

The other problem Kills the Alum Rad in seconds...

So boys and girls what are they?:judge:

[enkeivette]

Ok...Class there are two BIG problems with Alum rads...

What are they???

Waiting for an answer


Hint it is NOT that it corrodes:judge:

But it is similar.....actually it could be but not from water.

The other problem Kills the Alum Rad in seconds...

So boys and girls what are they?:judge:

They are:

Not relevant, because

a) They have proven themselves to last long without issue
and,
b) They have proven themselves to keep high hp mills cool, all day long.

What's wrong with copper brass radiators you ask?

They are:

a) Heavier,
b) More easily damaged and internally warped because they are softer,
c) More expensive,
d) Less aesthetically pleasing,
and,
e) More likely to corrode.

Class dismissed :p

[enkeivette]

Bigger tubes work with aluminum since it's a harder metal. I suppose there is minimally less surface area on the sides...

[BRUTAL64]

They are:

Not relevant, because

a) They have proven themselves to last long without issue
and,
b) They have proven themselves to keep high hp mills cool, all day long.

What's wrong with copper brass radiators you ask?

They are:

a) Heavier,
b) More easily damaged and internally warped because they are softer,
c) More expensive,
d) Less aesthetically pleasing,
and,
e) More likely to corrode.

Class dismissed :p


For a really smart guy..sometimes you can just......:rolling:


Ok...you guys don't want the info....fine by me:sm_laughing:

[enkeivette]

Let's hear it! Im curious now! I can still be humbled, Ben has done it before, haha

[enkeivette]

I want to make sure I dont accidentally fuck up and do this 'thing' to mine.

Btw, while we're on the subject, I think everyone should install one of those corrosion attracting plugs in their radiator. Saves your aluminum heads from pitting. Also, make sure there is a solid ground from your aluminum heads to your chassis. Helps prevent electrolysis

[Vettezuki]

I R Curious too. Have no real idea why all things considered I'd prefer a "traditional" over aluminum.

[BADDASSC6]

It's due to having two dissimilar metals in an electrolytic solution. It's Galvanic corrosion. Basically a non issue on LS motors since they are aluminum sleeved blocks.

This result in having to conduct a lot more maintenance.

[Vettezuki]

It's due to having two dissimilar metals in an electrolytic solution. It's Galvanic corrosion. Basically a non issue on LS motors since they are aluminum sleeved blocks.

This result in having to conduct a lot more maintenance.

Mm. Same idea as when someone repipes their house half assed with copper and leaves bits of it non-copper. Those joints corrode like a mofo. I guess aluminum + iron is worse than brass (copper+zinc) + iron is. But for aluminum + aluminum, no real problem. Got it.

[enkeivette]

Sleeves in the LS block are still cast iron. Ive never built an LS but I would think they protrude into the wet part of the block. Not to mention, the multitude of engines out there with iron blocks and aluminum heads from the factory.

Electrolysis is the result of dissimilar metals causing acidity in a solution (same way a battery works). In that respect, whether you chose to install an aluminum radiator (on any engine, because they all have iron somewhere) the choice is no different than installing aluminum heads or an aluminum water pump. Aluminum in the cooling system is still aluminum, no matter the function.

The thing in my cooling system is called a sacrificial anode.

[enkeivette]

Ya, look, LS sleeves touch, so the coolant has to flow around them. So even an LS setup has iron and aluminum in the cooling system.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/generation-iv-internal-engine/37105d1121542986-darton-large-bore-ls2-dry-sleeve-here-sleeves-installed-displa.jpg

[BRUTAL64]

I want to make sure I dont accidentally fuck up and do this 'thing' to mine.

Btw, while we're on the subject, I think everyone should install one of those corrosion attracting plugs in their radiator. Saves your aluminum heads from pitting. Also, make sure there is a solid ground from your aluminum heads to your chassis. Helps prevent electrolysis

Ok that is ONE of the problems that Alum Rads have...that is the fix..very good.:judge::judge:

Number two problem is a BIG one....If your thermostat sticks closed...it will cause all your tubes in the Alum rad to collapse. Yep..seen this a hundred times. Fix is to get a fail safe thermostat that only sticks open.

[enkeivette]

Ok that is ONE of the problems that Alum Rads have...that is the fix..very good.:judge::judge:

Number two problem is a BIG one....If your thermostat sticks closed...it will cause all your tubes in the Alum rad to collapse. Yep..seen this a hundred times. Fix is to get a fail safe thermostat that only sticks open.

:o.

[BRUTAL64]

:o.

I'm here to help....:judge: