Time For The Cobra To Get A New Engine - The 347 Build

[94cobra69ss396]

What started this build is when I broke another rocker arm and bent another pushrod on the Cobra. With 90,000 hard miles I figured the cause was weak valve springs. So I pulled the heads and and while I had them off ported them. I then took them to Pacific Engine (well Guy did) and had them machined and a valve job done. While doing so Guy discovered that AFR had way too much spring pressure and that some of the springs only had .500 lift before going into coil bind. My cam with 1.7 rockers has .530 lift so surprising they lasted 90,000 miles.

While the heads were being done I started cleaning the carbon off the tops of the pistons and noticed a nick in one of the cylinder walls. With that discovery I really didn't want to just slap the heads back on so I started looking into the cost difference of rebuilding the 302 compared to buidling a 331. The cost diiference was going to be very little so I'm building a 331. I've been saving up to buy the stroker kit from Coast High Performance and will likely be ordering it this week.

This weekend I pulled the shortblock from the Cobra and disassembled it to see what caused the nick. What I found is that two studs that hold a splash shield on the intake manifold had come out and fell into the pan. They must have been in there for a long time. There were nicks on the bottom of the pistons, cylinder walls, crank, rods and one lobe on the cam. Here are some pictures of the worst piston.

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp40/94cobra69ss396/20121009_083200.jpg
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp40/94cobra69ss396/20121009_083208.jpg
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp40/94cobra69ss396/20121009_083244.jpg

Before I discovered the damage this weekend I was planning to sell the pistons and cam to help offset the rebuild but now I don't know. The threw the cam out but I'm still considering selling the pistons. They've obviosly held up fine in the Cobra pushing 11-12 psi and the only damage besides the nicks on the bottoms is the wear marks on the skirt of the one pictured above. What do you guys think? Would you buy pistons with nicks like that?

[Shaolin Crane]

Oh sure, i've used pistons in worse shape then that. Those are cosmetic at best and wont effect longevity of the pistons. They're .030 over right? Those will sell no problem, hell if I didn't have 5 sets of forged pistons i'd probably grab them from you. Bring them down to the shop and i'll toss them in the washer, you'd be surprised at how little you'll be able to see them once clean.

Also dont toss that cam, it's still salvageable and can be refreshed for not too much money. Hell Joey might even buy it from you.

As far as 331, well, we've discussed that before :)

[94cobra69ss396]

I threw the cam in the trash and it was picked up yesterday. I do need to have Dick take a look at the block though to see if .030 will take care of the nicks. If not I have another block but the one that with the nicks is a much cleaner casting and I would really rather use it.

[Vettezuki]

I wouldn't care about nicks like that. Just put it in the ad and people can just choose for themselves.

[Shaolin Crane]

Pics of nicks?

[94cobra69ss396]

They are all in the same cylinder which is number 4. The dark spot in the first picture half way up the cylinder wall isn't a nick, it's just a stain. The deepest nick is the lower one in the top picture but I don't think it's .015 deep.

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp40/94cobra69ss396/20121009_103131.jpg
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp40/94cobra69ss396/20121009_103119.jpg

[Shaolin Crane]

Are those at the bottom of the bore? If so those are no big deal.

[94cobra69ss396]

Yes, they're at the bottom.

[Shaolin Crane]

Dont even worry about them, the rings dont go that far so they arent a problem. Most aftermarket blocks dont even have material that deep. On my dart motor we removed a 1/2" piece at the bottom of each cylinder to clear the rods.

[94cobra69ss396]

I ordered the kit today and as you can see from the change in the title I ordered the short rod 347 kit fro Coast High Performance. The original reason I was going to build a 331 instead of a 347 was because the 5.40 rod with the 3.40 stroke on the 347 puts the oil rings in the pin hole. This causes it to burn oil. With the short rod (5.315) it moves the pin lower to resolve that. So it won't burn oil and I'll have an additional 16 CI.

[Shaolin Crane]

:clap:

[94cobra69ss396]

You convinced me to go with it. They actually use the same piston as the 331 just with the shorter rods. Speaking of the rods, they also told me that they didn't have the rods in stock but they would upgrade mine to the 4130 I beam Scat rod. I looked it up on their website and it's only around $20 more than the Probe 5140 rods the kit comes with but it has a 5.325 length so the piston should only be down in the hole .010 or so and it uses cap screws instead of through bolts.

[Shaolin Crane]

I have the same rods, and they were kinda "meh" i'd prefer their rods but either way i'm sure you'll be ok. You should see if they wont upgrade you to h-beams, haha.

It's a great facility and everyone was really great, last time I was there picking up my kit the owner saw me trying on this shirt and told me to keep it.
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc322/ShaolinCrane/PICT0105.jpg
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc322/ShaolinCrane/PICT0106.jpg

[Shaolin Crane]

Oh BTW, saw this today
http://forums.corral.net/forums/suspension/1387719-maximum-motorsports-weld-adjustable-anti-roll-bar-non-adjustable-lower-control.html

[94cobra69ss396]

I'd love to buy that but with this build there is just no way I could.

[Shaolin Crane]

Just passing it along, I'd like to have it too but it wont work with my control arms. I'll probably hunt down some stock cobra ones.

[SkunkLookingCar]

Little late replying but I might be a bit hesitant reusing the pistons with nicks in them. Worst case scenario, if they are made of a high silicon alloy like hypereutetic castings or a 4032 forging, then they are brittle and you probably already have cracks in the pistons which will propagate over time. Best case scenario would be if they are a 2618 forging; it is a much tougher material and the nicks would only act as a stress riser. Blending out the damage would help but now you don't have a compressive layer from the shot peening process. It is tough throwing out parts that are 99% perfect but it is really just a coin toss without doing some sort of non destructive testing like sonic and penetrant inspection. By the time you get that done, you are probably better off dollar wise getting new slugs. My 2 cents.

[94cobra69ss396]

The old pistons are Probe SRS 2816-T61 and have been in my 471rwhp Cobra for 90,000 miles running 11-12 psi without any issues. I listed them on Craigslist with pictures of the worst looking piston. I don't think they will be an issue if someone buys them. If no one does though I'll take them to the scrap yard.

[Shaolin Crane]

Well if you're gonna scrap them....
;)

Those pistons aren't going to be a problem, this isn't on the deck its underneath, where there is the least amount of stress. If the valve reliefs or face or something was all nicked up then yeah i'd toss them. But not on the bottom side. Hell, we use forged 289 pistons all the time cause they're half the cost of the forged 302 pistons you just have to remove a tiny amount of material near the wrist pin. I've had 5 motors like this. One with well over 200k and no issues. Shawn has done countless like that.

[SkunkLookingCar]

Disclaimer: Please don't think I am trying to start an argument. Tone is a difficult thing to portray through he interwebs. Metal is just something that I am extremely interested in and I don't want my enthusiasm to give the wrong impression.

The only problem with the nicks being on the underside of the piston is that that side experiences predominantly tensile stresses versus compressive stresses. Cracks will propagate under lower tensile stresses faster than higher comperssive stresses. There is a good chance that the pistons will be fine for quite some time, but I'm worried about the collateral damage and time to replace if one of the damaged pistons let go. Also, you mentioned that they have 90K on them. Aluminum doesn't have a fatigue life. All aluminum will eventually fail under any sort of cyclic loading; higher stresses and higher temperatures will expedite that. I would be delighted if I got 90K@12psi especially considering there was damage to them.

[Shaolin Crane]

Not arguing, just stating my experiences. Probe extensively tests their pistons, something like 100k hours at red line. In some of the high winding motorcycle engine ive built I'd break a timing chain and the valve would leave its full impression on the piston. That bike is still going strong with the same owner who bought it from me 6 years ago. This was a 15:1 compression 36whp single cylinder thumper. Small impressions like that are nothing and have personally ran much worse for a similar amount of time. Gashed or grosh material removal anything where you can see that metal has been "moved" is the kind of stuff to look out for. Those are really no big deal. Its no difference then when a piston skirt has been shaved or valve reliefs have been cut or the dish has been opened up. I wouldnt worry about them even slightly. Hell the diesel guys take the 6.4 pistons and cut the dish open nearly 5cc then polish the edge and run 70-80psi on a hypereutectic.

[Vettezuki]

Plenty of light and not any heat in this thread. The metallurgic stuff is fascinating. Continue on. No one's taking a piss.

[SkunkLookingCar]

Not arguing, just stating my experiences. Probe extensively tests their pistons, something like 100k hours at red line. In some of the high winding motorcycle engine ive built I'd break a timing chain and the valve would leave its full impression on the piston. That bike is still going strong with the same owner who bought it from me 6 years ago. This was a 15:1 compression 36whp single cylinder thumper. Small impressions like that are nothing and have personally ran much worse for a similar amount of time. Gashed or grosh material removal anything where you can see that metal has been "moved" is the kind of stuff to look out for. Those are really no big deal. Its no difference then when a piston skirt has been shaved or valve reliefs have been cut or the dish has been opened up. I wouldnt worry about them even slightly. Hell the diesel guys take the 6.4 pistons and cut the dish open nearly 5cc then polish the edge and run 70-80psi on a hypereutectic.

Piston manufacturers typically have one as forged piston that can be machined into many different configurations. An area that has quite a bit of variability is the valve reliefs and so there is typically extra material in that area to accommodate all the different combinations. Having the valve hit in that area is one of the better ways to make contact with a piston. Unless you had huge reliefs because you had valves that barley fit in the head and a really high lift cam, you probably had some extra material. Also, that area is going to be predominantly in compression so that works in you favor too.

The OEMs are pretty well known to throw metal at pistons; it is cheap insurance. It doesn't surprise me the diesel guys are able to use their stock pistons in heavily boosted applications.

Machining aluminum is different than upsetting aluminum. Machining metal cuts and removes the material like when you opened up the valve reliefs or shaved a piston skirt. As long as a dull tool that generates a bunch of heat isn't used, everything is fine. Upsetting the material imparts strain into the part. That is when things get fuzzy. Different process conditions can produce vastly different results. For example, certain alloys will crack if they are upset at low temperatures versus high temperatures. Also, putting stain into a parts acts like an aging process. Aging is how you get the different -T8 or -T6 tempers after the same quench operation for the same alloy. The main reason that I get worried when I see damage is because I know of affects it MIGHT have but I don't have enough technical experience to be able to quantify if it happened or to what magnitude.

After all that hot air, the pistons are probably fine.

[94cobra69ss396]

I picked up my kit today. Next up is to clearance the bottom of the cylinders for the new stroke and then drop the block off at Pacific Engine for the machining.

[94cobra69ss396]

I clearanced the cylinders and dropped the block off at Pacific Engine. Of course I forgot the pistons so I'll be making another trip out there so they can machine the block for .004 piston to wall clearance.

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp40/94cobra69ss396/20121029_130059.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp40/94cobra69ss396/20121029_130048.jpg

[Shaolin Crane]

Checked my log book. Mine came in at .005 I got it confused with the spare forged internal motor that was already bored but wiped out the bearings. Came right under. 007

[94cobra69ss396]

When we did Eric's 331 I had it set to .0045. I'll run it by Dick when I drop off the pistons to see if he thinks .004 will be enough. I think it will be but I'll see what he says.

[Shaolin Crane]

Should be fine. He wanted to run a bit more because of the amount of boost. The other motor had some rust on the cylinder walls and he cleaned it up without boring it so thats why it has so much

[94cobra69ss396]

I dropped the new pistons off with Dick today and he had already bored half the block. We measured the bore on the other side as well as the old pistons and the clearance was .005 which worked well. I didn't have piston slap with the old combo and there weren't scuff marks on the skirts besides where the rivet hit. So we are clearancing this build at the same. Hopefully I'll be able to start assembling it this weekend.

[Shaolin Crane]

I'm going to call Joey today to see about the cam

[94cobra69ss396]

Cool, text me once you talk to him. Hopefully he will have it done so I can pick it up when the block is finished.

[Shaolin Crane]

He said friday

[94cobra69ss396]

Hopefully he sticks to it this time.

[Shaolin Crane]

I'm not holding my breath

[94cobra69ss396]

Call him tomorrow and tell him I'm picking the block up on Friday and that I will be by to pick up the cam. Maybe a little pressure will help.

[Shaolin Crane]

I've been putting pressure on him, every day, stressing how much I need the cam so I can assemble the engine. It's how he's always been.

[94cobra69ss396]

I picked up my block and cam today (thanks again for picking the cam up Guy!). The new Probe pistons measured 4.026 so the block was finished honed to 4.031 for .005 clearance. Cam specs for my American Custom Cams cam are .555 lift with my 1.7 rockers, 218 at .050 with a 114 LSA. Tomorrow I'm going to start building.

[Shaolin Crane]

Glad to pay back a favor

[94cobra69ss396]

I didn't get much done today because I ended helping my neighbor install the trans in his Chevy 1500 P/U.

I started on the pistons after though but only got 4 done. I'm smoothing out all the sharp edges. Believe it or not, it took about an hour per piston.
Before.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/P1030368.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/P1030367.JPG

After.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/P1030366.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/P1030365.JPG

[94cobra69ss396]

I worked more on Sunday. I started by washing the block. Then I chamfered the oil holes on the new crank and washed it. After that I measured all the journals. I then moved back to the block and installed the main bearings and then the crank. Main bearing clearance is .0025. I'm also using a Milodon windage tray so I had to tap the threads for 2 and 4 main caps and then installed the studs for the kit.

After I finished installing the crank I started assembling the pistons and rods. I know I mentioned this back when I help Eric build his 331 but I hate polylocks! So I got all the rods and pistons assembled and then start file fitting the rings. The CHP kit came with prefit Mahle rings (Perfect Circle) and I must say I'm glad that I don't just slap them on and install the pistons. They ranged from .008 up to .016 gap. There instruction sheet recommends .024 - .026 for both the top and second compression rings. So I set the top rings at .026 and the second at .024.

I didn't have much time tonight but I did finish file fitting the last four rings and then installed them onto the pistons. I also measured the side clearance which was .002.

Here are the only pictures I took.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/P1030375.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/P1030372.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/P1030371.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/P1030376.JPG
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/P1030379.JPG

[Shaolin Crane]

I would have like to run that windage tray but I couldn't with my oil pan choice.

[94cobra69ss396]

I wanted to run this Canton main support because it was cheap and you can buy the windage tray that bolts on for under $35 but then I read the instructions and the windage tray won't clear the stock pan. So I saved myself $150 and just bought the Milodon windage tray.

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/ctr-21-060_w.jpg
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/ctr-20-960_w.jpg

[enkeivette]

:thumbs_up:

[Shaolin Crane]

I wanted to run this Canton main support because it was cheap and you can buy the windage tray that bolts on for under $35 but then I read the instructions and the windage tray won't clear the stock pan. So I saved myself $150 and just bought the Milodon windage tray.

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/ctr-21-060_w.jpg
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/ctr-20-960_w.jpg

That's the one I have for the spare motor. Unfortunately the road race pan wont fit with a windage tray.

[94cobra69ss396]

I started installing the pistons tonight and was having a tough time keeping the rings in my cheap adjustable ring compressor. Then it happened, while installing the third piston I broke the lip on the second compression ring. F___!!!!!! I'm usually pretty calm and wouldn't let something like this bother me but I haven't been feeling well the past couple days and this just pissed me off. My wife calmed me down and told me to just order new rings and a better ring compressor so I did. She said it must have been a sign to get different rings because I was complaining about the fit of the Mahle rings that came with the kit. I'm a lucky man.

[enkeivette]

I know total seal allows you to order just one piston ring. Call them, get a part number and see if you can modify/ refund your order.

[94cobra69ss396]

I ordered Total Seal rings from Summit Racing already.

[enkeivette]

I know, Im saying keep them in the packaging. Call the manufacturer of the ring you broke, get a part number for one, order it for $20 and return the full set you just ordered.

Returning with summit is easy and they will even pay for shipping. They even include a return shipping label on the receipt now I think.

Or waste $200 and 7 rings if that makes you happy??

[Shaolin Crane]

Wtf? The rings set are like $20 and its always nice to have some rings on the shelf. Being honest and accepting responsibility is good too.

[94cobra69ss396]

I already file fit the Mahle rings so I wouldn't be able to return them anyways. The Total Seal CR rings were only $115 from Summit. I really want to gapless ring set but the only one they have with the 3mm oil rings are $300 and I'm not going to spend that much.

[Shaolin Crane]

Holy shit, why so much? I grabbed a set from dick for cheap.

[94cobra69ss396]

That's the same price that the Mahle rings were. The only ones for $20 were for a single cylinder.

[Shaolin Crane]

The set I bought were $22 from dick for the sealed power ones which are the same rings

[94cobra69ss396]

I received my adjustable timing set, new rocker arm and Summit cam degreeing kit yesterday. My new rings, ring file and ring compressor just arrived so I should be able to get a lot done this weekend.

[94cobra69ss396]

I was able to file fit the new rings, install them on the pistons and the install the pistons in the block tonight. The new Total Seal rings show to set the top ring at .0055 x bore, the second ring at .0035 x bore and the oil ring at a minimum of .015. So I set the top rings at .023, the second rings at .016 and the oil rings were .016 out of the box.

[Shaolin Crane]

Oil rings arent so important, mostly because of the size. Looked into mine, they were .022 and .018 BTW.

[94cobra69ss396]

These rings are so much nicer than the Mahle ones. The Mahle rings had a starting gap anywhere between .008 up to .015 out of the box. The Total Seal rings were .007 on every top ring, .005 on every bottom ring and .016 on every oil ring out of the box.

Oil rings arent so important, mostly because of the size. Looked into mine, they were .022 and .018 BTW.

What spec did they recommend for the brand you used? Mahle recommends a wider gap for their rings than Total Seal does.

[Shaolin Crane]

These rings are so much nicer than the Mahle ones. The Mahle rings had a starting gap anywhere between .008 up to .015 out of the box. The Total Seal rings were .007 on every top ring, .005 on every bottom ring and .016 on every oil ring out of the box.



What spec did they recommend for the brand you used? Mahle recommends a wider gap for their rings than Total Seal does.

Shawn recommended the gap since the pistons were used, they were also hastings rings, not sure if it it makes a difference.

[Shaolin Crane]

I tried calling you back but my phone died. When I went to charge it I realized i left my charger with Vanessa. I'll talk to Dick on monday about his methods.

[94cobra69ss396]

I pulled the cam and installed the stock Cobra one to check about the funky .002 on the intake and the stock cam stayed at 0 until the lobe started lifting it and once closed it stayed at 0. The exhaust lobe was the same. Then I installed the ACC cam and it still did the same thing. I checked the exhaust and it is also ground funky. It stays open .001 until a few degrees before TDC and then closes back to 0. I ended up installing it 2 degrees advanced for all the numbers below. This is what I came up with.

Intake Lift - .328
Exhaust Lift - .327
Intake CL - 116*
Exhaust CL - 114*
LSA 115*
IO - (-5*)
IC - 47*
EO - 43*
EC - 1*
Duration at .050 In 222* / Ex 224*

[Shaolin Crane]

Thats odd, those are no where near the numbers on the cam. I'm going to check with Dick and Joey monday to see whats up.

[94cobra69ss396]

Apparently the incorrect master plates (they were for an LS cam) were used which is why everything was off. The LS has a larger base circle which is why the lobe had the .002 dip. The new grind is completed and I'll pick it up tomorrow. I'm not sure what the final specs are but I'll post them after I degree it this weekend.

[Shaolin Crane]

It was for an LT cam which has a smaller base circle, so he didn't remove enough material when he ground the cam.

[94cobra69ss396]

You told me that but I mixed it up. Joey told me again today. So I picked the cam up and got it installed and degreed. Joey told me to install it 6* advanced and that the intake centerline should come in around 112-113. After degreeing it I came up with 112.75*. Though I still came up with different numbers than he said it should be. He told me that the lift should be around .552 which is about .325 at the cam and the duration should be 218*. I came up with .325 intake and .324 exhaust which is fine but for the duration I came up with 215* on the intake and 220* on the exhaust. It also still does the drop on the intake at about 12* only it is now .001 instead of .002. After what he said though I'm no longer worried about that. Anyways, I'm going to run it how it is.

After finishing the cam I bolted on a head with one of the old head gaskets and then check the piston to valve clearance. The intake valve had .306 clearance and the exhaust had .318. Plenty of room.

Tomorrow I'll finish up the bottom end and get the timing cover bolted on. I should also have the new head gaskets tomorrow so I'll get the heads bolted on as well.

Here are the only pictures I took from tonight.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121116_181859.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121116_183852.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121116_205357.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121116_205434.jpg

[Shaolin Crane]

I'm sure there's a snag in the testing procedure and the tolerance in the crank definitely isn't as tight as stock. As long as it's installed close i'm sure you're fine. Did you try installing it at 114 to see if it effected the duration numbers?

[94cobra69ss396]

No, I just installed it 6* advanced and left it.

[94cobra69ss396]

I received my head gaskets today and got the heads installed. I had to repair 4 stripped bolt holes (1 intake and 3 exhaust) so it took a while. I went with a .038 compressed gasket and with the 61cc combustion chamber, 14.2 dish and .015 deck that gives me a 9.24:1 compression.

The only pictures from today.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121117_19275811.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121117_1928181.jpg

[enkeivette]

So preeettttyyyy :)

[enkeivette]

Poor lil motor has no idea the hell that awaits it beneath Rons foot.

[94cobra69ss396]

Almost done. I should be able to finish cleaning everything up at night during this week and have it ready to drop in on Friday. I ended up porting the intake manifold more today because I didn't take enough off the bottom of the runners. They now match the heads nicely although I could get a picture of them.

Pictures from today.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121118_160204.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121118_160224.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121118_160249.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121118_160311.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121118_211151.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121118_211217.jpg

[Shaolin Crane]

I give my best regards for your block

[enkeivette]

Those rockers make my panties wet

[94cobra69ss396]

I give my best regards for your block

This is my engine, not yours. Did you forget how good mine ran even with two rivets bouncing around in the block. It'll be fine.

Those rockers make my panties wet

They're just the stock Cobra rockers which were made by Crane.

[Shaolin Crane]

This is my engine, not yours. Did you forget how good mine ran even with two rivets bouncing around in the block. It'll be fine.

I truly hope it lasts, but 45ci is a big steps up, sure, you wont be seeing 7k but you should be expecting it to happen.

[94cobra69ss396]

That's what the extra block in the garage is for but I don't plan on needing it.

[94cobra69ss396]

Did a little more tonight. First I took a couple pictures of the intake ports. They're not great pictures but good enough. They don't match perfectly but close enough.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_175802.jpghttp://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_175835.jpg

Next I installed the thermostat housing and then the headers. While doing the passenger side I discovered another bolt hole that needed repair so I pulled the header back off and fixed it.

Drilled
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_182841.jpg

Tapped
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_183157.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_183647.jpg

Insert
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_183721.jpg

Completed
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_184249.jpg

A couple with the headers installed. These are Bassani 1 5/8 equal length shorties.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_190714.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_190703.jpg

And here is the secret to making a Ford 302 last.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_190521.jpg

You have to have something from a Chevy.

[Shaolin Crane]

It's better to have helicoils on the heads anyhow, the big dollar race heads are completely helicoiled. I'm jealous that you're done before me.

[94cobra69ss396]

What do you mean done before you?

[Shaolin Crane]

The blue car won't be done until the new year. I've lost all motivation for it.

[94cobra69ss396]

The Cobra has been down for 5 months now. Hopefully I'll have it running this weekend. You need to figure out what's going on with the blue car and get it driveable.

[enkeivette]

I dont get it, whats from a chevy?

I ported my intake ports slightly smaller than my head ports. I read in an engine building book that it increases velocity, like a stepped header.

[94cobra69ss396]

You don't see the bow tie emblem on the two header bolts?

The ports on the intake are just a hair smaller except in the corners on that one cylinder. Those two were just the easiest to get a decent picture of.

[94cobra69ss396]

Here are pictures of all cylinders. It's hard to tell by the pictures because you can only see the floor and one side of the chambers but the sides either line up perfectly or are slightly smaller on the intake than on the head. The only cylinder that the floor looks little too big on is number 5 or it's is just that the gasket moved up a little, I can't tell. Oh well. I guess I'll see how it runs in a week or so. Another thing to remember though is that these are only 165cc intake runners so I don't think velocity is going to be an issue even if the ports on the intake and heads were to be the exact same size.


Cylinder #1
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_230935.jpg

Cylinder #2
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_230946.jpg

Cylinder #3
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_230953.jpg

Cylinder #4
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_231007.jpg

Cylinder #5
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_230847.jpg

Cylinder #6
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_230900.jpg

Cylinder #7
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_230908.jpg

Cylinder #8
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121120_230918.jpg

[Shaolin Crane]

The Cobra has been down for 5 months now. Hopefully I'll have it running this weekend. You need to figure out what's going on with the blue car and get it driveable.

I will eventually

[94cobra69ss396]

I picked up new motor mounts today and was planning on trying to drop the engine in the car but as luck would have it as I was torqueing the last bolt down it snapped. At the time I thought no big deal, I have easy outs so I'll just drill a hole down the center and use the easy out to pull it out. I've done it many times so I'm accustomed to pulling broken bolts. So I drill the center and then run the easy out in using my 1/4 ratchet. As it starts to get some resistance, snap! The easy out breaks. Now I've had that happen once before and the hardened easy outs are a pain to get out because my drill bits won't cut them. So I spent about 2 and a half hours getting to the point in the pictures below. I used all the stones and bits in the second picture plus some not pictured to slowly grind away at the easy out so that I can drill the rest of the bolt out and then retap the hole. Hopefully I haven't messed up the threads but if I did then I'll have to helicoil it. I'm hoping it won't ake too long and that I'll be able to drop the engine in the Cobra before heading to my brothers for Thanks Giving dinner.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121121_205710.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121121_205629.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121121_205647.jpg

[Vettezuki]

:popcorn:

[enkeivette]

Just order one or two pistons if youre worried, you dont need an entire set again.

But I think youll be fine. I got some love shrapnel in a nearby piston when one exploded. I filed down the nicked edge and just dealt with the scarring on top. I melted and cracked a second piston about a year later... but it wasnt the damaged piston. So its holding up to stress in there just fine.

[Shaolin Crane]

Did I miss the part about pistons?

[94cobra69ss396]

Umm, okay Adam. I'm not sure how that will help me get the broken bolt out of the motor mount bolt hole but I'll go ahead and order a couple pistons.

Now back to the real world, I was able to get the broken bolt out and got the motor mount on. After that I put the engine on the hoist and installed the rear main seal and then the new flywheel. When I went to install the clutch I realized the new one didn't come with dowels and I already recycled the old one. The new flywheel also uses a 5/16 - 16 bolt where as the stock one used an 8mm - 1.25. So I'll go to the local Ford dealer tomorrow (if they're open) and pick up the dowels and bolts.

Broken bolt removed.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121122_104602.jpg

Engine sitting on the hoist almost ready to go in the car.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121122_120846.jpg

[Leedom]

So I'll go to the local Ford dealer tomorrow (if they're open) and pick up the dowels and bolts.

They should be open, the one we went to yesterday to test drive the Explorer said they would be open at 6am on friday. Ford has a $1K cash back starting then too.

[94cobra69ss396]

$1000 cash back would be awesome on $1.29 dowels! Are you and Adam at the same Thanks Giving party?

[Shaolin Crane]

I think Leedom meant that Ford starts their $1000 Cash back promo for a new car.

[Leedom]

$1000 cash back would be awesome on $1.29 dowels! Are you and Adam at the same Thanks Giving party?

Mr. Funny guy.

I think Leedom meant that Ford starts their $1000 Cash back promo for a new car.
Correct sir.

[94cobra69ss396]

Went this morning and picked up the dowels at Fairview Ford in San Bernardino and then got the clutch and pressure plate installed. Then I dropped the engine in. It took a little while to get it all lined up by myself. Normally my wife would come out and help but she has been in Spain for the past week to watch her cousin play in a professional waterpolo tournament. Her cousin plays for France. Anyways I was able to get it installed. Below are a couple pictures I took right after I got it in. I don't have all that much left to do. I need to finish bolting up the exhaust, upper intake, TB, supercharger inlet and outlet tubing, radiator hoses, starter, distributor, etc. I should be able to finish it up in 3 hours or so. So it should be running tomorrow.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121123_135731.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121123_135749.jpg

[Shaolin Crane]

Man I still can't believe how much shit is in the engine bay of an SN

[enkeivette]

Little late replying but I might be a bit hesitant reusing the pistons with nicks in them. Worst case scenario, if they are made of a high silicon alloy like hypereutetic castings or a 4032 forging, then they are brittle and you probably already have cracks in the pistons which will propagate over time. Best case scenario would be if they are a 2618 forging; it is a much tougher material and the nicks would only act as a stress riser. Blending out the damage would help but now you don't have a compressive layer from the shot peening process. It is tough throwing out parts that are 99% perfect but it is really just a coin toss without doing some sort of non destructive testing like sonic and penetrant inspection. By the time you get that done, you are probably better off dollar wise getting new slugs. My 2 cents.

This was what my post was in response to, dick, guess I pulled up the first page and not the last page.

[94cobra69ss396]

I haven't been on because the car wasn't running on all cylinders and I was frustrated. I finished installing everything on Saturday which had it's own issues. When I went to bolt the upper intake to the lower two studs pulled out. So I had to take it back apart and drill, tap and install helicoils. It was dark by the time I finally fired the engine and after setting the timing it seemed to be idling fine.

On Sunday I took it for a drive and knew right away that something wasn't right. So I pulled all the new plugs and they looked okay and I ran out of time to do anything else to it that day.

This morning I pulled all the plugs again and did a compression test which came out fine. I also tested each plug by hooking it up to the Explorer to make sure it was sparking. They were all good too. Then I installed new plug wires. I had used the old ones because the new ones I ordered from Summit Racing hadn't arrived yet. The issue turned out to be the wires and it is running great. It has way more torque than it did with the 302. I've only given it half throttle but even with that it breaks the tires loose in second gear. I've also not taken it above 4500 rpms yet until I get it tuned. I'll drive it around easy until then. With Christmas coming up I may have to wait until after New Years.

I'll have to get some video up of it running. The new cam doesn't sound all that much different than the old one. It has less lope but it also pulls 6 inches more vacuum at idle.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121128_122922.jpg

[Shaolin Crane]

Nice. I like the cam as well. If you want we can hit up Steve to go down together, see if he wont be able to hook us up. Since the cobra has a day left on ebay I need to finish the blue car. I'll be assembling the body pieces today and then depending on how things go with Vanessa this week i'll be finishing most of the interior.

[94cobra69ss396]

Well hopefully things go well with Vanessa and you don't have time to finish the blue car until later.

[Shaolin Crane]

I agree, should they not however. Then i'll be finishing the blue car. If I can get her to talk to me then I'll be spending the weekend at least repairing bridges.

Cobra is being sold regardless so I don't have a whole lot of time to fart around.

[94cobra69ss396]

So I thought everything was good until last night when I drove the car to the store. About half way there it started to run a little rough again. This morning I took it for a drive and it was good for about 3 minutes and then started running rough again. I think that maybe one or two plugs might be bad and once they get some heat in them they start missing. I have a set of Autolite racing plugs that I ordered from Summit that I'm going to install tomorrow or Saturday and see if that is the issue. If it isn't then I'm at a lost.

[Shaolin Crane]

Sounds like the PIP

[94cobra69ss396]

What's the PIP?

[Shaolin Crane]

Basically the sensor inside the distributor. Could also be the TFI module on the fender.

[94cobra69ss396]

I have an MSD distributor so if you're talking about the magnetic pickup module inside it that has already been replaced not that long ago. I had an issue at one time where the car would cut out above 5000 rpms and I thought it was the pickup so I ordered a new one from Summit. One of the wires on the old one had worn through and I figured that was the issue. I still had the issue after replacing but it turned out to be because of the hole in the rubber elbow on the intake tube. Once I replaced it the car ran great.

I'll replace the plugs since I already have a new set and see if that resolves the issue. If it doesn't, what's the TFI module? Is it on the passenger side?

[Shaolin Crane]

Yeah, under where the stock intake was. A PIP module is in ever distributor, stock or otherwise. You need to remove the upper bowl of the distributor to get under the piece that the rotor set in.

[94cobra69ss396]

I had Phil test drive the Cobra tonight to see whether he thought what I was feeling was a missfire or a vibration and he says it's a vibration. My next step is to check the harmonic balancer to make sure the new one is 28oz and not 50oz. If it is then I guess from there the next step will be to check the flywheel. If both turn out to be correct then I guess the engine comes back out to have it rebalanced.

[Shaolin Crane]

If you had the wrong weight on there that thing would shake the vehicle apart. It would be nearly undriveable.

[94cobra69ss396]

It's not a horrible vibration. It just feels like a misfire but you feel it more under decel which I was too frustrated to notice before Phil drove it.

[Shaolin Crane]

Thats not the balancer then, I would still check, but if it was you'd definitely know.

I'd check the pressure plate, motor mount, trans mount or possibly the pullies.

[94cobra69ss396]

Motor mounts are new, trans mount is the old one but it's good, I reused the clutch and pressure plate that I had because the clutch only has about 15,000 miles on it. However, when I bought the dowels from Ford for the pressure plate they didn't press into the flywheel. They were a little small and I pushed them in by hand. So when I installed the pressure plate I was able to mave it slightly. I thought it was centered when I tightened it down but I guess it could have been off just a hair. However if that was the case wouldn't the vibration get worse the higher the rpms went? You can feel the vibration from about 1400-2000. Above that you don't feel it.

[94cobra69ss396]

The weight on the harmonic balancer is small than the old 50oz one from the old engine so I assume it's the correct 28oz one. I started the car up and watched the pulleys and they are perfect. I also felt the engine while I rev'd it a little and to me it feels like the vibration is towards the rear. So maybe the flywheel is incorrect or I don't have the pressure plate centered. So I'm going to pull the trans to take a look.

By the way, this sucks!

[Vettezuki]

Motor mounts are new, trans mount is the old one but it's good, I reused the clutch and pressure plate that I had because the clutch only has about 15,000 miles on it. However, when I bought the dowels from Ford for the pressure plate they didn't press into the flywheel. They were a little small and I pushed them in by hand. So when I installed the pressure plate I was able to mave it slightly. I thought it was centered when I tightened it down but I guess it could have been off just a hair. However if that was the case wouldn't the vibration get worse the higher the rpms went? You can feel the vibration from about 1400-2000. Above that you don't feel it.

If it were out of balance it WOULD get worse with higher rpm as the rotational inertia would be increasing. If it comes and goes through an RPM range, that's a harmonic thing.

[Shaolin Crane]

If it were out of balance it WOULD get worse with higher rpm as the rotational inertia would be increasing. If it comes and goes through an RPM range, that's a harmonic thing.

Not always, driveshaft, u joints and even pressure plate problems can all happen in a certain RPM range. Sometimes the rotation only effects them at a certain speed. I've dealt with it in one for or another on one of my vehicles at one point. I snapped 3 of the 4 joints in a u-joint on my driveshaft in my first f150. It would only vibrate in second at around 35mph then the rest of the time it was gone.

[94cobra69ss396]

I pulled the trans and the part number on the flywheel is for a 28oz imbalance. I going to take the flywheel and pressure plate over to Rancho Engine and machine and see if they have dowels that fit the flywheel so that I can locate it properly. Then I'll put it back together and see if the vibration is still there. If it is I'm taking the car to Coast High Performance to get their opinion. Guy, can you ask Dick a question though? I weighed my pistons before and after I smoothed out the sharp edges. Each piston ended up 1 gram lighter. All the pistons before were either 547g or 546g. After they were 545g and 546g. I also matched up the heavier pistons with the lighter rods when I assembled them because they varied by a gram as well. Can you ask him if taking a gram off each piston would be enough to cause the vibration?

[94cobra69ss396]

I took the flywheel and pressure plate down to Rancho Engine and they said that there isn't enough movement in the dowels to cause a vibration. So I called CHP and they want me to pull the harmonic balancer and bring it and the flywheel to them so they can check them for me.

[94cobra69ss396]

I just pulled the balancer and compared it with the old one. Of course one is a 50oz and the other is 28oz but that doesn't mean anything when comparing the timing marks to make sure the new one didin't spin a little. I stacked the old one on top of the new one and lined the key way slots up. As you can see in the photos the timing marks are dead on so it doesn't look like it spun. So hopefully it is just not balanced correctly or the flywheel isn't. If they are both good then the engine has to come back out and I have to take the rotating assembly back down to CHP to be rebalanced. If that happens I'm going to be pissed!

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121205_164437.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121205_164457.jpg

[Shaolin Crane]

Was it balanced for that actual flywheel and balancer?

[94cobra69ss396]

No, but that shouldn't matter as long as the manufacturer balanced them correctly. If they weren't balanced correctly and rotating assembly was balanced to them of I ever needed to replace either then the new ones would cause a vibration.

[Shaolin Crane]

It does matter, they go by records when they balance something as opposed to actually weighing the pieces. Most of the time it doesn't really matter. But its always better to have the actual parts balanced to one another. When I built the dart motor we had it balanced at a different company to my exact parts, instead of probe doing it. It sucks because replacement parts wont be matched correctly but such is horsepower.

[94cobra69ss396]

So even though they told me on Wednesday that they would have an assembly today to check the my harmonic balance and flywheel with, they didn't. So I had to leave them with them and they said they should be able to do it on Monday. They are going to ship them back to me after so I don't have to drive out there again. This sucks because now I have to wait another week before I know if I have to pull the engine out or if the hamarnic balancer and the flywheel were off. I could have either put it back together this weekend or pulled the engine and disassembled it. Now it'll be next weekend. Well at least I hope it will.

[94cobra69ss396]

I heard back from CHP today and thankfully it was the flywheel that was off. They corrected it and are shipping it and the harmonic balancer back to me today.

[Leedom]

Nice. That would have sucked had you needed to pull the motor back out.

[94cobra69ss396]

Yeah, I wasn't looking forward to it if I had to. I really glad that I don't.

[94cobra69ss396]

I got the flywheel and harmonic balancer back yesterday. Hopefully it won't rain tomorrow so I can put it all back together.

[joedls]

I know that's a load off your mind. Nothing worse than putting a lot of work into something and not have it work correctly.

[94cobra69ss396]

I got the trans installed and the vibration is gone but the car still wasn't running right. I had a new set of plugs so I installed those. While removing the old ones I found that cylinder 4 had a bad plug. It ran better with the new plugs but still wasn't right. So I bumped the fuel pressure up and that helped a lot. It still isn't perfect but I think it just needs to be tuned.

[Shaolin Crane]

Let me know when you're thinking about going, the blue car is insured now and ready to be driven on the street. We can go down there together and get em done at the same time.

[94cobra69ss396]

So we had Brendan (Ron's Friend on here) and his wife over for dinner tonight and I took him for a ride in the Cobra to see what he thought. He's an ASE certified tech like Phil is. His opinion is that it's a balance issue. I'm going to have Phil drive it again and if Phil feels that it's a balance issue as well then I'm going to pull the engine and tear it back down to have it all balanced again.

[94cobra69ss396]

Phil drove the car on Thursday and still thought that it's a balance issue so I called CHP Friday morning and told them that I was going to bring the car down to get their opinion. I picked Guy up and we headed down there. Eric felt it and listened to it and said that it's not a balance issue. Well at first he didn't even notice it. I had him sit in the car because that's the only way you feel it. He said that if it was a balance issue it would get worse around the 2800-3000 range. I asked him what he thinks it is and he said he thinks it's a tuning issue but I don't agree. I've not been driving the car because I was worried about the vibration doing damage but he said that even if it was a balance issue that it is so light that it wouldn't cause any engine damage and Phil agreed. So I'm going to wait until I have it tuned and see. Guy is going to talk to Steve next week when he is back at the shop to schedule and appointment and I'm going to try and see if I can come up with the cash to have mine tuned then as well.

[94cobra69ss396]

I pulled the upper intake off and tested the injectors with a tester I made. They all worked fine. Then I pulled the valve covers and checked all the springs, rockers and pushrods and they were all fine too. So I'm going to put it all back together and see how it runs after tuning.

Here's the tester.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121231_142723.jpg

[94cobra69ss396]

Thanks to Guy we will be getting our cars tuned this Friday.

[Shaolin Crane]

:thumbs_up:
Did you prefer 9am or 1pm? He hasn't confirmed fridays time yet. If we go early we sit in traffic on the way there, if we go late we sit in traffic on the way back.

[94cobra69ss396]

I prefer 1pm.

[Shaolin Crane]

Sounds good

[94cobra69ss396]

Well I have good news and bad news. First, the good news. The Cobra made 56 rwtq more than it did with the old engine even though Steve stopped the pull at 4000 rpms. He stopped it because the AFR went below 10:1 as soon as he went full throttle. So even with a very rich and short pull it still made 56 more tq. The biginning of the bad news is that the chip I have is Autologic and can no longer be programmed. So I have to buy a new chip so Steve can tune the car. Since I don't have the money to buy it now I'm going to have to wait for the tune.

The rest of the bad news is that Steve also says that the vibration is a balance issue and not the tune or a misfire. He hook up a scan tools and monitored everything and says the engine is running great. So I'll be calling CHP on Monday and see how they want to procede but the engine is going to have to come back out and torn back down.

Guy also had issues but I'll let him update them on his thread. However, Steve also made a pull on his and cut it off early as well. I think he cut it off at around 4800 when the supercharger belt slipped but by 4000 he was already making 10psi of boost. With our short runs I think he made 2 rwhp more than me and I made 22 rwtq than him.

[Shaolin Crane]

Well I have good news and bad news. First, the good news. The Cobra made 56 rwtq more than it did with the old engine even though Steve stopped the pull at 4000 rpms. He stopped it because the AFR went below 10:1 as soon as he went full throttle. So even with a very rich and short pull it still made 56 more tq. The biginning of the bad news is that the chip I have is Autologic and can no longer be programmed. So I have to buy a new chip so Steve can tune the car. Since I don't have the money to buy it now I'm going to have to wait for the tune.

The rest of the bad news is that Steve also says that the vibration is a balance issue and not the tune or a misfire. He hook up a scan tools and monitored everything and says the engine is running great. So I'll be calling CHP on Monday and see how they want to procede but the engine is going to have to come back out and torn back down.

Guy also had issues but I'll let him update them on his thread. However, Steve also made a pull on his and cut it off early as well. I think he cut it off at around 4800 when the supercharger belt slipped but by 4000 he was already making 10psi of boost. With our short runs I think he made 2 rwhp more than me and I made 22 rwtq than him.
He ran it to 4200 WOT and it kept spinning to 4500, I found out I have a throttle cable issue.

[94cobra69ss396]

I forwarded the email I received from Steve stating that the vibration is due to an imbalance to CHP yesterday asking what our next steps are and haven't received anything back yet. I'm going to give them until noon and then I'll call them.

[Shaolin Crane]

Interested to see what they have to say about Steve's information.

[94cobra69ss396]

I spoke to Eric at CHP today and they want me to try a shouldered pressure plate bolt to make sure that the pressure plate is centered and not the cause of it. The reason is because the holes drilled in the RPM flywheel are just a hair too big for the factory Ford dowel pins. So when I put mine together I used my digital caliper to line the pressure plate up and then used loctite on the dowels. I let it dry overnight and then double checked and they were still centered. They think that might be the cause and want me to try the shouldered bolts first before tearing the engine back out. So as soon as I have time and get the correct part number from them for the bolts I'll pull the trans and and give it a try. I hope that's it but I don't think it is.

[Shaolin Crane]

Not a chance.

[94cobra69ss396]

I know but that's the next step they want to take. I already ordered the bolts from Summit so I should have them by this weekend. If I have time I'll probably pull the trans during the week.

[Shaolin Crane]

I would just tell them you already did it, there's been enough bullshit already, why not add a little more.

[94cobra69ss396]

Because I'm an honest person.

[Shaolin Crane]

Yeah and they should be too. They know as well as we do that this is just a hail Mary because they don't want to stand behind their shit.

[joedls]

You ready to hurt someone yet?

[94cobra69ss396]

Not yet but I'm getting there.

[joedls]

Not yet but I'm getting there.


:thumbs_up:
You have much patience.

[94cobra69ss396]

I got some video of the car before I have to tear it back down.

Idle and revs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2gpVGTrzyY

Half throttle pull in 2nd and 3rd.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C0XhcsEAqo

[Shaolin Crane]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=249462658517706&set=vb.100003619214736&type=2&theater

[94cobra69ss396]

I pulled the trans this morning, removed one of the old bolts and then installed one of the new shouldered bolts by hand. It lined up perfectly so I did a good job at centering the dowels. I then pulled the flywheel and installed all of them by hand just to make sure none had an issue and they all went in fine.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20130113_154043.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20130113_154027.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20130113_154017.jpg

Since they all lined up perfectly I spent the rest of the day pulling the engine. I got it pulled and striped down to the short block. Tomorrow I'll call Eric at CHP and let him know. I need to check with him and see if they need me to take the pistons off the rods or if I can leave them on. I'm hoping they don't need to come off but I don't know. Tomorrow night I'll finish disassembling it and then take everything down to them. I'm going to weigh everything before I do and take pictures. I'm also going to check the size and depth of the holes that are already drilled in the crank so I know if they remove any material.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20130113_153957.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20130113_153946.jpg

[94cobra69ss396]

Dropped everything off today. They are going to call me when it's done.

[Shaolin Crane]

What are they going to do about your outted costs?

[94cobra69ss396]

They said that if the balance is off that they will supply me everything to reassemble the engine. I weighed all the pistons and rods and 6 were 1081g, 1 was 1082g and 1 was 1080g. I also took pictures and measured all the holes that were already drilled in the crank so that I know if they modify it. Eric said that if it's off they'll fix it and if it's not they will show me that it's not when I come back to pick it up.

[Shaolin Crane]

So. updates?

[94cobra69ss396]

I haven't heard back yet. I'm going to call Eric this morning.

Did your buddy make the video?

[Shaolin Crane]

Yeah, I thought I posted it?

[94cobra69ss396]

Where did you post it? It's not in your build thread.

[94cobra69ss396]

I just got off the phone with Eric and he said their balancing guy has been out and is just back today. Yeah, I believe that. :laugh: He said that he is checking it now and will give me a call in about an hour.

[Leedom]

I just got off the phone with Eric and he said their balancing guy has been out and is just back today. Yeah, I believe that. :laugh: He said that he is checking it now and will give me a call in about an hour.

and the verdict....:popcorn:

[Vettezuki]

. . . I weighed all the pistons and rods and 6 were 1081g, 1 was 1082g and 1 was 1080g.

What's the tolerance of your scale?

[94cobra69ss396]

I don't know what the tolerance on it is. However, the issue was the pressure plate. It was 42g out. They had to drill the weights to get it in balance. They also marked it for me so that I can install it in the same postion that they balanced it. I picked it up tonight and will be putting it back together this weekend.

[Leedom]

I don't know what the tolerance on it is. However, the issue was the pressure plate. It was 42g out. They had to drill the weights to get it in balance. They also marked it for me so that I can install it in the same postion that they balanced it. I picked it up tonight and will be putting it back together this weekend.

Good luck Ron. You need to hurry up and finish it. My dad has some $$ for you to drop his 428 into his Mach.

[94cobra69ss396]

Thanks Adam. I'm getting ready to start assembling it now and I'm hoping to have it built today and then drop it in tomorrow if the winds cooperate. Tell your dad I'm in and we can set up a weekend to do it as soon as I have the Cobra done.

[94cobra69ss396]

I have the engine done and ready to drop into the car tomorrow.

[94cobra69ss396]

I only worked on it for about 4 hours today but I got the engine and trans back in. I about another 2-3 hours worth of stuff to do before I'll be able to start it.

[94cobra69ss396]

It's done and no more vibration! I actually finished it last Monday but when I started it up it had a lifter tap and was missing. It was dark by then and I was pissed so I called it a night and went inside. With the rain I and other things I wasn't able to take a look at it until today.

So this morning I pulled the TB and elbow off so I could pull the valve cover. I found that the exhaust rocker on cylinder one had backed off so I torqued it back down and put it back together. I started it back up and the lifter tap was gone but it was idling a little rough. I took it for a test drive and it was misfiring.

I then pulled the plugs to see how they looked which they all looked fine and did a compression test. All cylinders were about the same and had good compression. So I put it all back together and took a look at the MSD box. I've had issue with the box before so I bypassed it and went for a test drive. Still had the misfire!

Out of frustration I decided I would try the old plugs. I just bought new ones when I put it back together this time because the old ones which only have 800 or so miles looked a little fouled. So I put the old ones back in and would do you know, it was the new plugs. I don't know which one is bad because they all look good but at least one is.

So the car is running great, well rich but other than that great. Now I just need to come up with the money to get the final tune and see what she puts down.

[Leedom]

Nice Ron. Congrats. Was it worth it?

[94cobra69ss396]

Not sure until I get it tuned. All I know is it feels a lot more powerful than it did before. I drove it over to Phil's tonight and getting on the freeway it broke loose at 3/4 throttle in third. There's bad news though. The check engine light came on and the codes are for EGR and coolant temp sensor. I'm not sure why because they are the same as they were before but it's been the theme of this build.

[Leedom]

Its the curse of the Santa Fe.:rolling:

[94cobra69ss396]

This is so much worse than the Santa Fe. I've already pulled the engine and trans twice as well as built the engine twice.

[94cobra69ss396]

I found a broken vacuum line inside some loom that was causing the EGR code. The coolant temp was working but the connector was a little loose so I crimped the connectors a little and that took care of that code.

[Vettezuki]

This is so much worse than the Santa Fe. I've already pulled the engine and trans twice as well as built the engine twice.

Ouch. :suicide:

[94cobra69ss396]

I emailed Steve this morning and just heard back. I have an appountment to have the Cobra tuned tomorrow at 1pm. I'll post up the results tomorrow.

[94cobra69ss396]

So I have good news and bad news. First the bad, we were not able to complete the tune due to maxing out the MAF at about 5200 rpms. I have an 80mm Lightning MAF and need to go up to a 90mm. Luckily Guy had an extra 90mm housing so I already have that. I just need to get the elbow and filter adapter for it.

Now for the good news. With Steve stopping the pull at about 5400 rpms the car still made 455rwhp. It made peak torque at 4300 rpms which was 474rwtq and at 5200 it was making just over 460rwtq. Steve said there is still some more in it because he's pulling a lot of timing out above 4000. He thinks peak will fall right between 470-480 on the pump gas tune and thinks that it will make 520rwhp and 500rwtq on race fuel.

[Shaolin Crane]

I quite literally live in a sea of mustang parts :/

[94cobra69ss396]

Now if you can just remember where you put everything.

[Shaolin Crane]

I have a loose recollection of where everything is.

[94cobra69ss396]

I have an issue ever since I put the engine back together that it has been using oil. A lot of oil lately, like a quart every 700 miles. I thought that maybe the intake gasket was leaking because I reused the gaskets. I was going to wait until I finished Andy's car before I tore it down only because I am also going to be installing a new cam but I decided to start on it today. I started pulling it apart and the intake gasket was leaking which I'm happy for but I also found sludge built up in the rear water passage on the head. I reused the head gaskets as well and I think they were leaking too.

I needed to finish lapping the valves on Andy's heads so that I had room on my work bench to put my heads. So I stopped working on the Cobra and finished Andy's heads this afternoon and then went back to pulling the Cobra apart. I finished around 7pm tonight but didn't take any pictures. We're supposed to be getting the crank, bearings and rings either tomorrow or Tuesday so I'll be building Andy's engine at night this week and then installing it this coming weekend. After that I'll get the cam changed in the Cobra and then pick up new gaskets to put it back together. I also have every thing I need to install the 90mm MAF except for an air filter so hopefully once I have it put back together I can get it to Steve to have the tune finished.

[Shaolin Crane]

I have an extra 4" filter if you need one. Do you mind if I have your old 80mm housing for the race car?

[94cobra69ss396]

I'll pick a new one up from GTR but thanks. You can have to 80mm housing once I install the 90mm.

[94cobra69ss396]

Ordered my FelPro MLS head gaskets today.

[Shaolin Crane]

I need to order some as well.

[94cobra69ss396]

I found a guy on ebay selling a pair for $130 so I bought them. Summit has them for $88.95 each.

[BRUTAL64]

:popcorn:

[Shaolin Crane]

I found a guy on ebay selling a pair for $130 so I bought them. Summit has them for $88.95 each.

Damn that's a come up. My cost it $80 each

[94cobra69ss396]

I know, plus he was offering free shipping.

[94cobra69ss396]

I worked on the Cobra Sunday and got the cam changed and the front end put back together. Then I spent a lot of time sanding the deck for the new gaskets. I received the new head gaskets but I need to lap the valves before I install the heads because I have a couple that are leaking now because of the lean condition with the intake gasket. I aslo found that almost all of the valve seals are off and they are Viton style seals. That would also contribute to the oil burning issue. These are the only pictures I took from yesterday.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130616_153834.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130616_153853.jpg

[Vettezuki]

Looking good. Curious to see where you end up power wise when done.

[94cobra69ss396]

Same here. I don't think it will be all that much different than the last time I went. The only thing that's changing is the cam, the rest of the issues shouldn't have had that much of an effect on the WOT pull.

[Shaolin Crane]

Bring me the can so I can t

[94cobra69ss396]

Bring me the can so I can t

What?

[94cobra69ss396]

Tonight I finished cleaning up the other head and lapped the valves. All I need now is the correct valve seals so that I can put them back togehter.

Disassembly.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130620_153201.jpg

Storage. The back set are the cleaned and lapped valves for the first head.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130620_153208.jpg

Dirty intake valve.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130620_154920.jpg

Dirty exhaust.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130620_154931.jpg

Clean and lapped intake.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130620_154940.jpg

Clean and lapped exhaust.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130620_154949.jpg

Dirty combustion chamber.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130620_155047.jpg

Partially cleaned.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130620_161851.jpg

Cleaned combustion chamber.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130620_155036.jpg

[Leedom]

Looking good Ron! See you sunday!

[94cobra69ss396]

I picked up the new seals today but unfortunately my home A/C stopped working tonight. So I'm going to see if I can figure out what's wrong with it and if I can't then I'll have to call a heating and air service so it might be a day or so before I can get back the the heads.

[Shaolin Crane]

i can help out with the a/c if you need it.

[94cobra69ss396]

That only works if you can come out tomorrow.

[94cobra69ss396]

Had time to install the seals and reassemble one head last night.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130625_222818.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130625_225220.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130625_230542.jpg
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130625_231501.jpg

[94cobra69ss396]

I took a half day from work today so that I could take a look at my ac. It was supposed to be almost 100 degrees and up to 106 by this weekend I needed to get it fixed quick. I was able to figure out what the issue (blown capacitor) was and picked a new one up this afternoon. Total cost was $31.62.

So after that I finished assembling the other head, then cleaned up the gasket surfaces and bolted the header back on. I was able to get that head bolted onto the engine before it started to get dark. Tomorrow I clean the gasket surfaces on the other head, bolt the header on and then install it and whatever else I can get done before it gets dark.

Here are the only pictures from today.

Cleaned head.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130626_182102.jpg

Head torqued down.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130626_190845.jpg

[Vettezuki]

:popcorn:

[94cobra69ss396]

Cleaned up the other head today and then installed it. I also got the pushrods and rocks on and adjusted as well as the front accessories and blower. Tomorrow I'll get spark plugs installed (should have done that before bolting the heads on), then the lower intake and valve covers and then drop the distributor in and run the wires. That's if I can finish it all before dark. Then I'll finish everything else up on Saturday and hopefully have it running.

The only two pictures from today.

Felpro MLS NASCAR head gaskets.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130627_153503.jpg

How it sits now.
http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130627_174638.jpg

[Shaolin Crane]

Jelly

[94cobra69ss396]

Almost there.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/20130628_180153.jpg

[Vettezuki]

Those HGs look for serious.

[94cobra69ss396]

These are what I was running on the 302 before, I just didn't want to spend $90 each on them when I built this engine. I was hoping the Mr Gasket MLS gaskets at $35 each would work. But decided to spend it now.

[94cobra69ss396]

She running again! It's so much nicer driving the car without the smell of burning oil. Now I just need to charge the A/C and then have the tune finished. I'm going to see if Steve has an appointment for this week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjSyJFeBn5E

[94cobra69ss396]

I have my appointment with Steve scheduled for next Tuesday the 9th at 9am!

[Vettezuki]

Sweet! :thumbs_up:

[94cobra69ss396]

Dyno tuning is done but the car isn't. It's good and bad when Steve tells you that you are making too much power! :rolling: To be more specific, he said that I'm making too much for not having an intercooler. He told me that I need to install methanol injection because the inlet temps are way too high for the power the engine is making and he's worried that it will pop a head gasket if I beat on it which we all know I'm going to.

So, what's it making? Let me start by saying that we again had trouble with it spinning the tires in 4th. When the car was cool it put down 476 rwhp and 470 rwtq but that was with the tires spinning. That was on the pump gas tune. In an attempt to keep the tires from spinninig Steve would go full throttle in 3rd to heat the tires up but then the IATs would rise so on the pull the horsepower would drop. After that Steve made the pulls in 5th but again the IATs were so hot that the car was making less power even though it made more torque. On the final pump gas pull it put down 467 rwhp and 490 rwtq. This was with a total of 15 degrees of timing. It was actually the last pass that he made for the session which was after he finished the race fuel tune.

For the race fuel tune I added 5 gallons of race fuel. Total timing ended up at 20 degrees on the race fuel tune but again because of the IAT the race fuel tune didn't pick up that much over the pump gas tune. The final pull on the race fuel was 494 rwhp and 504 rwtq.

Here's a printout of the last two pulls which are the fianl race fuel pull followed by the pump gas pull.

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp40/94cobra69ss396/IMG_20130709_0001_zps4b048f86.jpg

Video of a couple of the pulls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dZFbefWtwk

[Leedom]

Very nice!

[Damian]

Meth injection will help you get more octane as well. Im debating meth or air to air intercooler. What were your IATs?

[94cobra69ss396]

Steve didn't say. I'd love to have a liquid to air aftercooler but there just isn't enough room for one so I'll be using a 50/50 mix of water and methanol.

[Leedom]

Do you have an idea of what system you will be going with?

[94cobra69ss396]

I want to get the AEM Boost Safe injection system and I plan on installing the injector nozzle on the outlet of the volute of the supercharger. My Vortech has a predrilled and tapped hole already there that I can use for it.

[Shaolin Crane]

That's what it's meant for.

[94cobra69ss396]

Nice, that should make it easier to install when I finally get it.

[BADDASSC6]

First great to see your car together and putting down those great numbers. Second, I thought vortech made a air to water intercooler for sn95s? Regardless water meth injection is going to add a lot more power. I predict 580 hp

[Damian]

I like the AEM meth kit, that might very well be the kit I go with. Tons of cool features.

[94cobra69ss396]

First great to see your car together and putting down those great numbers. Second, I thought vortech made a air to water intercooler for sn95s? Regardless water meth injection is going to add a lot more power. I predict 580 hp

Thanks. Vortech makes an aftercooler for the Fox body but the SN95. At least not for the 94/95 5.0 ones. I won't be making any more power with the meth because I'm not changing the tune. I'm going to run the smallest jet size which Steve said would be perfect with the current tune to keep the IAT under control. I'm not looking to make any more, just to keep it together for as long as I can.

[Shaolin Crane]

First great to see your car together and putting down those great numbers. Second, I thought vortech made a air to water intercooler for sn95s? Regardless water meth injection is going to add a lot more power. I predict 580 hp

I have it on my car, but he'd have to convert everything specific to the SN back to fox stuff and would lose a bunch of stuff.

[94cobra69ss396]

You also have more room in your engine bay than I do and that aftercooler is tight in your car. I'm not sure I could make it fit. But I'm fine with running methanol. Besides, with methanol I might not need to buy race fuel to run it on a road course which would be nice.

[Damian]

Can you fit a front mount intercooler?

[94cobra69ss396]

I could fit the intercooler but not the tubing.

http://www.motorgen.com/pic/data/500/medium/20121128_122922.jpg

[BADDASSC6]

The 90 elbow on the discharge of the blower makes it hard. I would stick With the meth injection. It works and keeps it simple. At least you won't have to worry about blowing off intercooler hoses.

[Shaolin Crane]

You also have more room in your engine bay than I do and that aftercooler is tight in your car. I'm not sure I could make it fit. But I'm fine with running methanol. Besides, with methanol I might not need to buy race fuel to run it on a road course which would be nice.

Nah engine bays are identical,, I've installed them on SN cars, ton of work if you want to keep you cruise control and smog stuff, and I mean a ton of work so much so that most people dump it. Remember my cobra had the fox stuff on it but I lost the cruise control.

[Shaolin Crane]

Can you fit a front mount intercooler?

Not with a vortech kit and even the renegade pro charger kit requires some serious hacking to fit.

[Damian]

Yeah, looking at that pic, there isn't room for anything else. At least the nipple on the discharge makes it a great place to inject meth. Nice smooth injection direction. I don't really like injecting 90 degrees into a pipe, yours will inject in the exact direction as the air flow.

[BADDASSC6]

I had a procharger P1 SC on my 1996 gt. the intercooler was huge and required very little effort to fit. The only real problem I see is the elbow on the blower dis discharge.

[Shaolin Crane]

I had a procharger P1 SC on my 1996 gt. the intercooler was huge and required very little effort to fit. The only real problem I see is the elbow on the blower dis discharge.

Completely different kits with wildly different installs
OHC
http://www.holley.com/data/VirtualShow/Pictures/Large1501!2006-8-12!11H26M47S.jpg
OHV
http://owners.procharger.com/static/images/cars/415/photo-2236.jpg

[94cobra69ss396]

I knew that I could use the fox TB to install one and that I would lose my cruise control but I don't want to do that. I drive this car to northern CA and AZ to customers and really don't want to lose the cruise control. I'll be using methanol.

Speaking of long trips, back a few years ago we had a thread about MPG on boosted engines related to vacuum. I did some mileage tests in the Cobra and found that with the old engine combo that I got the best MPG at 60 mph which was 28 something. Yesterday when I left for your shop I filled the Cobra up near my house and reset the trip odometer. When I got home I filled up again to see what kind of mileage I got. I drove 70 the whole way to the shop and mostly 70 on the way home except where I ran into a little traffic that slowed to 60 for a couple miles. I was amazed to see that I pulled 30.235 MPG. I knew it was getting better mileage but I didn't expect that. Before I would get about 23 MPG at 70.

Is it possible that the stations fuel pump might be the reason I think it's averaged so much? The reason I ask is that when I filled up the first time I used a different station than I did when I the second time. The way I filled up the first time was I set the handle to pump at the slowest rate and let it click off by itself. I did the same thing the second time but it clicked off after just .6 gallons. I knew that wasn't correct because I had driven 52 miles. So I started the pump again but it clicked off right away. So the third time I held the handle by hand as slow as I could go and it clicked off at 1.72 gallons. Is it possible that the pumps at the second station are just more sensitive to the overflow?

[Vettezuki]

I have a hard time understanding how what you've done would increase mpg 30% @70mph.

[Shaolin Crane]

I knew that I could use the fox TB to install one and that I would lose my cruise control but I don't want to do that. I drive this car to northern CA and AZ to customers and really don't want to lose the cruise control. I'll be using methanol.

Speaking of long trips, back a few years ago we had a thread about MPG on boosted engines related to vacuum. I did some mileage tests in the Cobra and found that with the old engine combo that I got the best MPG at 60 mph which was 28 something. Yesterday when I left for your shop I filled the Cobra up near my house and reset the trip odometer. When I got home I filled up again to see what kind of mileage I got. I drove 70 the whole way to the shop and mostly 70 on the way home except where I ran into a little traffic that slowed to 60 for a couple miles. I was amazed to see that I pulled 30.235 MPG. I knew it was getting better mileage but I didn't expect that. Before I would get about 23 MPG at 70.

Is it possible that the stations fuel pump might be the reason I think it's averaged so much? The reason I ask is that when I filled up the first time I used a different station than I did when I the second time. The way I filled up the first time was I set the handle to pump at the slowest rate and let it click off by itself. I did the same thing the second time but it clicked off after just .6 gallons. I knew that wasn't correct because I had driven 52 miles. So I started the pump again but it clicked off right away. So the third time I held the handle by hand as slow as I could go and it clicked off at 1.72 gallons. Is it possible that the pumps at the second station are just more sensitive to the overflow?

Not sure if you had the T56 or not but that's a big part. Your new chip allows for much better tuning capability. Longer stroke helps alot too, along with the porting of everything, new cam with the 114 LSA and increased cylinder pressure. Makes sense.

[enkeivette]

I knew that I could use the fox TB to install one and that I would lose my cruise control but I don't want to do that. I drive this car to northern CA and AZ to customers and really don't want to lose the cruise control. I'll be using methanol.

Speaking of long trips, back a few years ago we had a thread about MPG on boosted engines related to vacuum. I did some mileage tests in the Cobra and found that with the old engine combo that I got the best MPG at 60 mph which was 28 something. Yesterday when I left for your shop I filled the Cobra up near my house and reset the trip odometer. When I got home I filled up again to see what kind of mileage I got. I drove 70 the whole way to the shop and mostly 70 on the way home except where I ran into a little traffic that slowed to 60 for a couple miles. I was amazed to see that I pulled 30.235 MPG. I knew it was getting better mileage but I didn't expect that. Before I would get about 23 MPG at 70.

Is it possible that the stations fuel pump might be the reason I think it's averaged so much? The reason I ask is that when I filled up the first time I used a different station than I did when I the second time. The way I filled up the first time was I set the handle to pump at the slowest rate and let it click off by itself. I did the same thing the second time but it clicked off after just .6 gallons. I knew that wasn't correct because I had driven 52 miles. So I started the pump again but it clicked off right away. So the third time I held the handle by hand as slow as I could go and it clicked off at 1.72 gallons. Is it possible that the pumps at the second station are just more sensitive to the overflow?

Where were you when I was arguing mpg with Sean Plunk years ago? Mpg relates to vacuum, simple.

Ya something is off, youre not getting 30mpg with a blown V8.

When I fill up my moms SRT, sometimes the handle clicks off before its full. It depends on the angle and temp when the fill tube will touch fuel.

[94cobra69ss396]

You mean this one? http://www.motorgen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=522

See page 7.

I drove the same 52 miles today but this time I was in stop and go traffic on the 26 mile return. I also had 4 full throttle blasts up to about 80 moving into traffic and the gas gauge moved a lot more today. I didn't fill up the tank to check it but I'm going to North Hollywood tomorrow so maybe I'll fill up after that and see what kind of millage I get in normal driving. The real test will be at the end of next month when I have to drive up to San Francisco. Then I'll have some good long miles to compare with. On that trip I normally get about 22-23 miles per gallon.

[Vettezuki]

The new LT1 gets about 30mpg on the freeway in the new C7 (using the EPA's current test circuits). It's lighter,has better aero, is direct injection, naturally aspirated, and shuts off half the damn engine at freeway cruise. I have heard of some guy getting up around 30mpg in stock C5s with a T56 and idealized driving/engine conditions.

If you want a solid idea, do a few phoenix loops and use a clock for trip average speed. With longer trips and if you're meticulous about where and how you fuel, the margin of error should be pretty small. Deep into the the 20s doesn't surprise me but I'm skeptical about 30.

[blackax]

The new LT1 gets about 30mpg on the freeway in the new C7 (using the EPA's current test circuits). It's lighter,has better aero, is direct injection, naturally aspirated, and shuts off half the damn engine at freeway cruise. I have heard of some guy getting up around 30mpg in stock C5s with a T56 and idealized driving/engine conditions.

If you want a solid idea, do a few phoenix loops and use a clock for trip average speed. With longer trips and if you're meticulous about where and how you fuel, the margin of error should be pretty small. Deep into the the 20s doesn't surprise me but I'm skeptical about 30.

Last trip to Vegas I got 26 mpg doing 80 all the way. And that in a car that is 3,850 pounds. I can get about 29 if i keep it around 60.

[94cobra69ss396]

I had to drive up to San Rafael this week for business. The 30 mpg must have been something with the pump not filling the tank all the way or something because I average 22.501 mpg driving between 75-77. That's still better than it got before by about .5 mpg. It's not huge but at least I'm getting better mpg while making more power.

[BADDASSC6]

I got about 26 in the vette with the old motor between SD and Phoenix at 90 mph. I would get 28 if I slowed to 60 mph.

[enkeivette]

I had to drive up to San Rafael this week for business. The 30 mpg must have been something with the pump not filling the tank all the way or something because I average 22.501 mpg driving between 75-77. That's still better than it got before by about .5 mpg. It's not huge but at least I'm getting better mpg while making more power.

That's pretty fantastic. I've been daily driving the Vette these past few weeks, and with my 6th gear my freeway mileage is relatively incredible. It has to be at least double my city mileage. The motor is sitting at about 1,500 rpm on the freeway, but my cam is way too big to shift down low like that. So in the city I need to rev it up to about 2,500.

[94cobra69ss396]

Well the Cobra failed it's smog test but just barely. I have a Magnaflow 2 cat H-pipe and I tested the cats after. The outlet is only about 100 degrees hotter than the inlet so it needs cats. I checked with a local exhaust shop about just adding the front cats to make it a 4 cat H-pipe like stock but they wanted about $400. I looked online and I can get a new Magnaflow 4 cat H-pipe for a little over $500. I've been waiting for Autozone to have a discount which finally they have a 20% discount code so I order it from them and saved about $130 with the free shipping. Hopefully this will make it pass.

[BADDASSC6]

I have two corsa 3" cats off the vette if you want them.

[enkeivette]

Too bad its not a year older.

I had a dream about your car Ron. It was weird. I sat in it and the interior looked super squared off and outdated. Thats when you told me it was originally an 80 something fox body and you converted it to a newer model... which would be especially difficult since its a unibody, haha.

[94cobra69ss396]

I have two corsa 3" cats off the vette if you want them.

My exhaust is only 2.5 inch and the new H-pipe is already ordered. Thank you for the offer.

[BADDASSC6]

Roger, just seeing if I can help. I have literally piles of random car shit right now.

[Shaolin Crane]

Too bad its not a year older.

I had a dream about your car Ron. It was weird. I sat in it and the interior looked super squared off and outdated. Thats when you told me it was originally an 80 something fox body and you converted it to a newer model... which would be especially difficult since its a unibody, haha.

What difference would it make if it was a year older?

[enkeivette]

What difference would it make if it was a year older?

It would be OBD 1, you could buy some highflow magnaflow cats for like $60 a pop

[Shaolin Crane]

It would be OBD 1, you could buy some highflow magnaflow cats for like $60 a pop

His car is OBD-1

[enkeivette]

His car is OBD-1

Oh nice, just before the cut off I take it

[94cobra69ss396]

95 was the last year for obd1 and the high flow Magnaflow cats are what I have now. But they are now about $130 for the CA ones with an E.O. number. I also found out from the exhaust shop that the two cat H-pipe that I have now that was legal two years ago is no longer legal. He said CARB changed that and I have to have all four cats. I hate CARB. I'm so glad the F100 is smog exempt.

[Shaolin Crane]

95 was the last year for obd1 and the high flow Magnaflow cats are what I have now. But they are now about $130 for the CA ones with an E.O. number. I also found out from the exhaust shop that the two cat H-pipe that I have now that was legal two years ago is no longer legal. He said CARB changed that and I have to have all four cats. I hate CARB. I'm so glad the F100 is smog exempt.

Great, which means I need all 4 cats too. We'll see if my car passes