E92 M3 chipped dyno results

[MassAppeal]

Had a chance to put our buddys new M3 on the dyno to see what his chip would do (not sure what chip it is/ not familiar with German aftermarket)
everything else is stock
http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww260/hbspeedEVO/E92M3.jpg

[Vettezuki]

I thought those were rated at 400 BHP from the factor. Assuming a 17% driveline loss that should be 332WHP from the factory, give or take according to dyno and atmospheric conditions, etc.

[SeanPlunk]

I thought those were rated at 400 BHP from the factor. Assuming a 17% driveline loss that should be 332WHP from the factory, give or take according to dyno and atmospheric conditions, etc.

414hp actually. It seems like a lot of drivetrain loss, but it is going through a 7-speed paddle shift transmission and that could account for the extra loss.

[Vettezuki]

414hp actually. It seems like a lot of drivetrain loss, but it is going through a 7-speed paddle shift transmission and that could account for the extra loss.

That'd be more like 20% off stock. Possible I guess, but that's like AWD cars now.

[MassAppeal]

yah this is the isf we did which I think is rated at 416 flywheel, seems to have less drive train loss:thumbs_up:
http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww260/hbspeedEVO/LexusISF.jpg

[SoCalC55]

jesus... those are really really bad numbers IMO

for a 70K V8 M3.... wonder how much worse it is stock?

I know (for comparison purposes) I could pick up 13whp/15wtq with a basic chip alone


Stock Numbers(Motor Trend)
414 HP SAE @ 8,300 rpm; 295 ft lb @ 3,900 rpm
3700 Curb Weight

[SeanPlunk]

jesus... those are really really bad numbers IMO

for a 70K V8 M3.... wonder how much worse it is stock?

I know (for comparison purposes) I could pick up 13whp/15wtq with a basic chip alone


Stock Numbers(Motor Trend)
414 HP SAE @ 8,300 rpm; 295 ft lb @ 3,900 rpm
3700 Curb Weight

I agree, the hp does seem low. The tq is actually high though :huh:

[Vettezuki]

jesus... those are really really bad numbers IMO

for a 70K V8 M3.... wonder how much worse it is stock?

I know (for comparison purposes) I could pick up 13whp/15wtq with a basic chip alone


Stock Numbers(Motor Trend)
414 HP SAE @ 8,300 rpm; 295 ft lb @ 3,900 rpm
3700 Curb Weight

So Mr. AMG, ZO6 v. M3. What say you?

[SoCalC55]

Z06 > New M3 > Me (on paper the M3 has me by half a second to 60. I havent been able to mess with one in the real world however; yet :()

Although if I were to be more correct...

Z06 > C63 > M3


mmm Z06 :drool:

[Chate]

Any dyno #s for a Vishnu tuned 335? They claim 420hp???
If so thats probably more cost effective than an M3! No gas guzzler tax either :P

[SoCalC55]

I agree, the hp does seem low. The tq is actually high though :huh:Keep in mind it is already chipped, so i would agree if that was the stock TQ number, but adding in the chip gains...

I would just assume that a car like the M3, which is build to be a ultra-high performance sedan/coupe would have far less drivetrain loss vs a run of the mill car. I would expect no more than 15% loss out of any care of its caliber

[MassAppeal]

Any dyno #s for a Vishnu tuned 335? They claim 420hp???
If so thats probably more cost effective than an M3! No gas guzzler tax either :P

Ive seen 3 chipped vishnu 335 owners at a dyno day on a dyno jet getting 300-310whp. they had sad faces on them :sm_laughing:

[SeanPlunk]

Ive seen 3 chipped vishnu 335 owners at a dyno day on a dyno jet getting 300-310whp. they had sad faces on them :sm_laughing:

Wow, that sucks. The Juicebox seems to be much better. This guy put down 342rwhp (http://www.motorgen.com/vid/showphoto.php/photo/824/cat/527) I believe on the 2nd most aggressive setting.

[SeanPlunk]

Oh, and have you guys ever dynoed an R8 or a C63? I'd love to see a sheet on either of those.

[SoCalC55]

Oh, and have you guys ever dynoed an R8 or a C63? I'd love to see a sheet on either of those.If i remember right from my MB sites, the C63 pits down ~390whp stock

[Vettezuki]

If i remember right from my MB sites, the C63 pits down ~390whp stock

I always knew I could beat a C63, I put down 391. Ha!

[SoCalC55]

Plus im sure you weigh less than 4000lbs

[MassAppeal]

Oh, and have you guys ever dynoed an R8 or a C63? I'd love to see a sheet on either of those.
Have not seen any of those guys yet! would love to see what a R8 puts out:drink:

[Vettezuki]

Plus im sure you weigh less than 4000lbs

A bit. ;)

[Vettezuki]

Wow, that sucks. The Juicebox seems to be much better. This guy put down 342rwhp (http://www.motorgen.com/vid/showphoto.php/photo/824/cat/527) I believe on the 2nd most aggressive setting.

I'd like to see these with boost and A/F on the same dyno on the same day (same car even better). Starting from stock you DON'T go from 300~ to 340~ on chip alone. At least not without seriously shortening the lifespan of the engine.

[SoCalC55]

I'd like to see these with boost and A/F on the same dyno on the same day (same car even better). Starting from stock you DON'T go from 300~ to 340~ on chip alone. At least not without seriously shortening the lifespan of the engine.I know he had an intake aswell :huh: lol

[SeanPlunk]

I'd like to see these with boost and A/F on the same dyno on the same day (same car even better). Starting from stock you DON'T go from 300~ to 340~ on chip alone. At least not without seriously shortening the lifespan of the engine.

Actually you can. Here is a dyno chart on a complete stock 335i with the Juice Box from Burger Motorsports:

http://www.burgertuning.com/images/jbplus_beta_testing.jpg

If you'll notice on 91 octane he went from 273rwhp to 313rwhp - exactly 40rwhp.

[Vettezuki]

Actually you can. Here is a dyno chart on a complete stock 335i with the Juice Box from Burger Motorsports:[/IMG]

If you'll notice on 91 octane he went from 273rwhp to 313rwhp - exactly 40rwhp.

Yeah, except for the part where there's no boost or A/F or comparison to a Vishnu unit on the same car and day. :sm_up_there: I can see the top numbers are on 93 which makes a little more sense. A chunk of it is coming from the timing.

My point is this, it's hard for me to imagine BMW being that conservative with the stock tune. So much so that with still safe (close to ideal) A/F and timing you could pick up that much power at the wheels. That's more than the old days of the LS1s that came from the factory with VERY conservative tunes. Unless they just running very low boost fro the factory that can just get turned up and the fuel system can support it. :huh:

Is the JB a whole piggy back computer with lots parametric articulation than the stock unit?

[SeanPlunk]

Yeah, except for the part where there's no boost or A/F or comparison to a Vishnu unit on the same car and day. :sm_up_there: I can see the top numbers are on 93 which makes a little more sense. A chunk of it is coming from the timing.

My point is this, it's hard for me to imagine BMW being that conservative with the stock tune. So much so that with still safe (close to ideal) A/F and timing you could pick up that much power at the wheels. That's more than the old days of the LS1s that came from the factory with VERY conservative tunes. Unless they just running very low boost fro the factory that can just get turned up and the fuel system can support it. :huh:

Is the JB a whole piggy back computer with lots parametric articulation than the stock unit?

The JB is a piggy back unit AFAIK. The 335i runs relatively low boost stock and the fuel system is stout enough to handle the extra.

I don't know why you're so surprised by this. Remember, with a Cobra like mine you could easily make 60rwhp over stock with a pulley and tune only.

Factory forced induction FTW :bigthumbsup:

[Vettezuki]

The JB is a piggy back unit AFAIK. The 335i runs relatively low boost stock and the fuel system is stout enough to handle the extra.

I don't know why you're so surprised by this. Remember, with a Cobra like mine you could easily make 60rwhp over stock with a pulley and tune only.

Factory forced induction FTW :bigthumbsup:

A pulley is a mechanical alteration. I understand completely. The idea BMW would come out with something that only DATA could increase implies to me they must have had a model lineup problem. As you describe, a 335i working at it's potential starts to cut into M3 performance at nearly half the cost. So model branding issue that can be exploited by those in the know. :huh:

[gsteichen]

A pulley is a mechanical alteration. I understand completely. The idea BMW would come out with something that only DATA could increase implies to me they must have had a model lineup problem. As you describe, a 335i working at it's potential starts to cut into M3 performance at nearly half the cost. So model branding issue that can be exploited by those in the know. :huh:

:thumbs_up: It's a popular belief that BMW deliberately understates the 335"s HP to max the spread between it and the M3. Given the price spread it's in their interest (financially):judge:. If it's true that there is that much power left on the table with the stock tune, esp. with the weight difference, why pay double???

[Chate]

I think a lot of it might have to do with the lifespan too, even though BMW could have tuned it up to more boost/power, it probably wouldnt last the 5 years or whatever that it is covered under warranty!
I've been looking at BMW forums, most of the guys are super anal about removing piggybacks whenever they take their leased cars/bought cars into service...because the techs are told to inspect for ECU mods...which violate warranty/lease terms!!!

but going back to the m3, i see one on my walk to school sometimes...yum!!

[WagonSleeps]

i wouldnt be able to afford to mod a bmw...and like my co-worker, get the lemon law treatment. He had major Fuel pump issues..

[SeanPlunk]

i wouldnt be able to afford to mod a bmw...and like my co-worker, get the lemon law treatment. He had major Fuel pump issues..

Yeah, the high pressure fuel pumps on the first 335i's were a HUGE problem. My grandfather's had his fail on him at 9k miles.... It was a widespread problem.

[Vettezuki]

Yeah, the high pressure fuel pumps on the first 335i's were a HUGE problem. My grandfather's had his fail on him at 9k miles.... It was a widespread problem.

Are those motors direct injection?

[SeanPlunk]

Are those motors direct injection?

They are indeed. The high pressure pump was the one failing.

[BADDASSC6]

Yeah, except for the part where there's no boost or A/F or comparison to a Vishnu unit on the same car and day. :sm_up_there: I can see the top numbers are on 93 which makes a little more sense. A chunk of it is coming from the timing.

My point is this, it's hard for me to imagine BMW being that conservative with the stock tune. So much so that with still safe (close to ideal) A/F and timing you could pick up that much power at the wheels. That's more than the old days of the LS1s that came from the factory with VERY conservative tunes. Unless they just running very low boost fro the factory that can just get turned up and the fuel system can support it. :huh:

Is the JB a whole piggy back computer with lots parametric articulation than the stock unit?

You're right! A big parameter that is also missing exhaust gas temperature. Sure some tuners may make a big number and the motor may not grenade immediately. Give it six months and ring lands, rings, and the tops of the pistons will all start pitting. Even with the proper A/F you will introduce significant highly localized heat.

I had a long discussion with one my good friends about this very issue. You can see it all the time. The walking wounded. Supras, EVOs, and Cobras that still run strong because of all the boost, but bealch out black smoke when hammered and blowoff coolant lines on occasion due to "loose fittings".