Baby's first 1911: RIA vs. Norinco

[Vettezuki]

Not quite there, but getting close to finally buying my own firearm instead of free loading all the time. Any of you anti-social threats to society have an opinion comparing these two foreign made cheapy entry level 1911s? They both are reviewed quite well. The RIA is still available new and the Norinco is now only available on the used market.

[Vettezuki]

There's also the Taurus PT1911 for a bit more, but it's roughly the same as the base model Springfield, so I'd probably go for the Springfield at that price. I'm really looking for <=$400, $500 if there is a killer used deal somewhere on a nicer one.

[Vettezuki]

I have a small temptation for a .40 S&W because I have a line on a virtually infinite supply of once fired brass. . . .

[Shaolin Crane]

If you're getting a 1911 there is no reason not to get a .45. I would stay away from the taurus. I've heard not so great things. Keep your eyes peeled on gun broker and cal guns. I bought my springer mil spec for $425 after fees on gun broker because the seller thought it wasnt on the roster.

[Vettezuki]

If I went with a .40 it wouldn't be a 1911, probably an XD.

[Shaolin Crane]

Well the nice thing about the 1911 is it can be chambered in any size for 199 or less. This way you have a .40 slide, 9mm slide, .22lr slide and it takes moments to swap out. .45 would be the first caliber to start with though

[Chuck]

Look at the Sig 1911 I got one and its great...

[Chuck]

Its about double the price range but you get what you pay for.

[Vettezuki]

Sell me yours for half and we'll call it even? I'll even let you shoot it sometimes. :jester:

[Chuck]

Okay... Wait NO!!!

I will never sale another gun I am still sad I sold my 500.

[Chuck]

I did get that membership to the range down the street from your house (Beach and Katella) whenever you want to go hit me up and ill bring some shit. You can rent some nice stuff there as well.

[Shaolin Crane]

Okay... Wait NO!!!

I will never sale another gun I am still sad I sold my 500.

Ditto, no more gun selling.

[mustangray]

for the price I say look for the used Norinco when they were available new I had nothing but good luck with them they are completely iterchangable with the Colt the only differance between the two is the Norinco is completely hardened where as the Colt isn't it also has a stainless steel match barrel.
In the old day (when I still had an FFL) I use to sell a ton of them with no complaints every one loved them . As for caliber .45 is the best indoor close combat round you are going to find (great wound ballistics) but if you want a .40 try looking at a 10mm Delta Elite I really liked it

[Vettezuki]

Okay... Wait NO!!!

I will never sale another gun I am still sad I sold my 500.

But you'll have visitation rights and if I want to sell I'll sell it back to you for full price. Whatta deal. ;)

Thanks Ray. That's good to now. Everything I've found about the Norinco's so far is that they really had their shit together.

BTW, I was just thinking the other day. Are there any Japanese made guns at all? I can't think of one (don't mean vintage WWII stuff, I mean current.)

[Vettezuki]

I was curious why Norincos are no longer available. Turns out they allegedly (FBI, BATF) were planning to bring in RPGs to the United States. Sweet!

[Shaolin Crane]

Freakin chinese

[Vettezuki]

Here's the real funny part. Recently the PRC (not Norinco), but the govenrment of China has indicated they think private firearms ownership in the US is a kind of human rights violation because of the dangers presented to the citizen population.

A bit fucking rich coming from a place that nobody is even quite sure how many 10s of millions were killed . . . . by the government. Or more recently if you prefer:

http://oi47.tinypic.com/obqg.jpg

[mustangray]

I was told (back in the old days)by ATF that when the U.S. did there investigation on the RPG's thats when they found that Norinco was orerated by China's military/secret police so we were basically funding them thus the ban on all Norinco products

[Shaolin Crane]

Here's the real funny part. Recently the PRC (not Norinco), but the govenrment of China has indicated they think private firearms ownership in the US is a kind of human rights violation because of the dangers presented to the citizen population.

A bit fucking rich coming from a place that nobody is even quite sure how many 10s of millions were killed . . . . by the government. Or more recently if you prefer:

http://oi47.tinypic.com/obqg.jpg

is this a human rights violation too?
http://www.catster.com/files/post_images/b40571f378aa8184a8b1c7c89b8de6b1.jpg

[Vettezuki]

I was told (back in the old days)by ATF that when the U.S. did there investigation on the RPG's thats when they found that Norinco was orerated by China's military/secret police so we were basically funding them thus the ban on all Norinco products

That's kind of a silly reason because if you buy anything Made In China (and there are couple things made there) it funds the PRC and therefore their police, and their military, just like when you buy stuff from any country. Their ruling mafias (a.k.a., governments) make sure they get a taste.

[Shaolin Crane]

I think it's more like that scene in Lord of War. The money from the "legal" guns sales goes directly to them, meaning more to spend sooner.

[Vettezuki]

I think it's more like that scene in Lord of War. The money from the "legal" guns sales goes directly to them, meaning more to spend sooner.

It's a fair point and may even be a way of concealing how much the government is spending on arms a tiny bit. But damn, it seems they made quite good pieces for quite little money.

[mustangray]

That's kind of a silly reason because if you buy anything Made In China (and there are couple things made there) it funds the PRC and therefore their police, and their military, just like when you buy stuff from any country. Their ruling mafias (a.k.a., governments) make sure they get a taste.

You Know it !

[Shaolin Crane]

It's a fair point and may even be a way of concealing how much the government is spending on arms a tiny bit. But damn, it seems they made quite good pieces for quite little money.

I'm sure they made quite a bit of money at .10c a day in labor.

[Gary Wells]

Hey, Shaolin, I might be talked into parting with my Wilson Combat Classic Super Grade for $5K. Oops, my bad, you posted 500, not 5K.
Anybody here shoot or membership at Huntington Beach Firing Line off of Talbert & Beach?

[Vettezuki]

Hey, Shaolin, I might be talked into parting with my Wilson Combat Classic Super Grade for $5K. Oops, my bad, you posted 500, not 5K.
Anybody here shoot or membership at Huntington Beach Firing Line off of Talbert & Beach?

I think GTTS>Some shoots there every Saturday or something like that.

[Ryridesmotox]

for the price I say look for the used Norinco when they were available new I had nothing but good luck with them they are completely iterchangable with the Colt the only differance between the two is the Norinco is completely hardened where as the Colt isn't it also has a stainless steel match barrel.
In the old day (when I still had an FFL) I use to sell a ton of them with no complaints every one loved them . As for caliber .45 is the best indoor close combat round you are going to find (great wound ballistics) but if you want a .40 try looking at a 10mm Delta Elite I really liked it

I have a 1911 Colt Delta Elite Gov. issue chambered in 10mm. I love that thing but its expensive as hell to shoot. I am probably going to get it chambered for .22 or .40cal soon. .22 is cheap and .40 is what we use at work so its freeeeeeeeee haha. I'm ready for the zombie invasion.

[Shaolin Crane]

Hey, Shaolin, I might be talked into parting with my Wilson Combat Classic Super Grade for $5K. Oops, my bad, you posted 500, not 5K.
Anybody here shoot or membership at Huntington Beach Firing Line off of Talbert & Beach?

Gary, I think you're getting me and Ben confused, I already have my well equipped 1911. as much as i'd like a super grade they're too much money for my taste.

[Gary Wells]

I was only kidding, Shaolin, but I did not know that you already had a well equipped .45 auto. As much as I love my Wilson Combat Classic SG, I think that the Ed Brown Executive Target at about $3k Republik of Kalifornication price might be a better deal. I love that one too.

[Shaolin Crane]

I do, it started out as a simple milspec that i installed a match barrel, did my own trigger work with billet short pull adjustable trigger, 2 piece stainless match guide rod with 10lb main spring,. I still have my parkerized lightweight skeleton hammer and dove tail to insall. Shoots quickly and has very low recoil when usues low grain loads. Trigger pull is about 5lbs and pull length 1/8", takes some getting used to but it performs for what I use it for.

[Ryridesmotox]

takes some getting used to but it performs for what I use it for.

Zombie apocalypse preparation? LOL.

[Gary Wells]

I do, it started out as a simple milspec that i installed a match barrel, did my own trigger work with billet short pull adjustable trigger, 2 piece stainless match guide rod with 10lb main spring,. I still have my parkerized lightweight skeleton hammer and dove tail to insall. Shoots quickly and has very low recoil when usues low grain loads. Trigger pull is about 5lbs and pull length 1/8", takes some getting used to but it performs for what I use it for.

Congrats, Shaolin, sounds like a very nice gun. Just out of my curiosity, what convinced you to use a 2 piece guide rod.

[Shaolin Crane]

Congrats, Shaolin, sounds like a very nice gun. Just out of my curiosity, what convinced you to use a 2 piece guide rod.

I got it for free and I like the ease of maintanence. Its still quite simple to tear the gun apart and I can do it just as quickly as before i touched it. IIRC it came out of a trophy match springfield. I like it over aftermarket 2 piece guide rods. When its threaded together its impossible to tell that its a 2 piece.

I wasnt going for a super hopped up 1911, just something that shoots a low grain load very quickly without fear of penetrating interior walls. Since its not a high end 1911 I feel better about tit going everwhere with me, I sleep with it, it goes on vacation with me, i house it in my serpa holster on motorcycle riding trips, hiking, etc. I have other handguns but this one i trust my life with the most.

[Shaolin Crane]

Zombie apocalypse preparation? LOL.

You know what they say, "there's no hunting like the hunting of man."

[Gary Wells]

Shaolin:
Are you sure that 2 piece guide rod came from a Springfield Trophy Match. I own a very early Springfield Trophy Match from about 95 or so, one of the very first ones out & when they were only blue over blue, and even though I also have a 2 piece guide for in mine, I don't remember it coming from the factory with it in there.

[Shaolin Crane]

Shaolin:
Are you sure that 2 piece guide rod came from a Springfield Trophy Match. I own a very early Springfield Trophy Match from about 95 or so, one of the very first ones out & when they were only blue over blue, and even though I also have a 2 piece guide for in mine, I don't remember it coming from the factory with it in there.

I could be mistaken about it being from a trophy match but i'm positive it came from a factory springfield model. IIRC it was a trophy match though, but its possible it was a national match since it has been a long time since I performed the work on it.

[Gary Wells]

It has been proven that FLGRs in general neither help nor hurt accuracy.

It is impossible for a .45 auto recoil spring to bind & / or kink inside the gun with a GI type guide rod unless it was kinked before installation.

2 piece FLGRs are considered inferior to 1 pc guide rods by many as they can come apart and / or loose, and require a allen wrench for assembly and disassembly.

.45 autos having 2 piece FLGRs in most cases are easier to assemble and disassemble than those that do not have a FLGR. Depends mostly on the experience of the shooter in which system he has the most time with assembly &/or disassembly. Heavier spring rates are more difficult.

FLGRs add a little weight to the muzzle end of the gun, thus reducing recoil tip-up and aiding in the back on target time.

FLGRs can and probably will smooth out the cycling a tad.

Some FLGRs are available in tungsten, increasing the weight at the muzzle a tad more.

Most of the gamers and competition shooters use them in one form or another.

They do remove the "twang" sound when cycling your .45 auto by hand if it does so. Some .45 autos have that "Twang" and some don't. That is the recoil spring rubbing against the frame recoil spring tunnel generally.

I neither recommend nor not recommend the use FLGRs. Regardless of what others tell you it is strictly a matter of personal preference.

FLGRs do have quite a few haters, that's for sure.

FWIW, I use FLGRs in all 5 of my 1911 platform .45 autos.

[Shaolin Crane]

FLGRs align the slide to the barrel sooner in the cycling action. I noticed a great improvement over the standard milspec bushing. Mine has never come loose but i dont let oil get on the threads either. Never had an issue and dont plan on removing it.

[Vettezuki]

Gary,

$500 for a 1911.

In your opinion: what, who, where?

[Gary Wells]

Gary,

$500 for a 1911.

In your opinion: what, who, where?

Sorry, Vettezuki, I guess I have been sleeping & not been on here for a while. I really don't know what to recommend in the $500 range. I would take a look at 1911Forum, M1911 forum, 1911 Addicts forum, & Firing Line forum. Most of those forums have a "Range Report" section, & you will see quite a few people asking about the same thing that you are asking. Sorry, not much help from my end.