Wrx Wagon Just Got Retuned!

[WagonSleeps]

Just wanted to show you all my new numbers after my retune.
its a 2007 wrx wagon with 6spd sti swap(SEAN I FINALLY DID IT!) and stock sti turbo with other mods.
Mods Before Retune
Vf43sti turbo w/ 08 sti Top mount
Full Turboback
Walbro255lph
TUNE=283whp/335tq

Mods ADDED FOR RETUNE
Turbo inlet hose w/ AEM CAI
BCS
NGK PLUGS 1 step colder.
TUNE with all the mods listed = 305whp/356tq and 335whp/372tq on 95 octane mix :)

This retune consisted of just a Turbo Inlet Hose and AEM Cold Air Intake and 1 step colder plugs.

My previous tune pulled 283whp/335Tq without inlet hose and intake.

here is my new retune! let me know what yall think!!! :drink:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/Getliftedgully/Vf43protune.jpg

This show my 91 Pump #'s as well as my 95 octane Tune!

[Vettezuki]

Is that fall off in torque a function of the stock turbo? It's hurting your peak power quite a lot. You're making slightly more peak torque at lower revs than my H&C LSx makes, but considerably less peak HP, just because of the torque curve. :huh:

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/515/BirdRunDyno1.jpg

[WagonSleeps]

Yes our cars have good low end torque, AWD = lots of drivetrain loss.
but your car doesnt rev up to 7k i see.
All cars are different?

if you see my pump 91 octane run, the torque dies off, but my HP holds a good 300whp up to redline.


its a possibility the turbo doesnt act the way NA motors do, Because the torque drop you see is nowhere near noticeable, just likes to keep pulling.

Here is a dyno chart on a GT65 TURBO UPGRADED e85 BEAST Pushing 507whp and butt loads of torque.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/Getliftedgully/gt65.png


as you can see the torque dies off on turbo upgraded cars also. The HP goes up, thats what matters in the end.


200whp/300tq against 300whp/200tq....which one would win????

Subarus have plenty of drivetrain loss, About 20% of loss.

305whp assuming i have 25% drivetrain loss would come out to 381 to the crank.
507whp assuming he has 25% drivetrain loss would come out to 633 to the crank.

[Vettezuki]

Yes our cars have good low end torque, AWD = lots of drivetrain loss.

if you see my pump 91 octane run, the torque dies off, but my HP holds a good 300whp up to redline.

That's what I mean. Without sounding like a complete a$$hole, I've raced many STis and Evos at the track. The pull hard out of the hole then I walk right on by. Simply my engine continues to do more work (HP) where these motors flatten out fast. I'm talking about stock or moderately modded ones up to about your level. Beasts are beasts, different story.


its a possibility the turbo doesnt act the way NA motors do, Because the torque drop you see is nowhere near noticeable, just likes to keep pulling.

. . .

as you can see the torque dies off on turbo upgraded cars also. The HP goes up, thats what matters in the end.

Exactly. The HP would go up a lot more if the torque were more stable. This is a big part of the design in a turbo car, depending on application, where it will spend most of it's time (rev vs. boost), etc.

My point is that I think your car may have a slight breathing problem for the torque to fall off quite that rapidly. Probably a turbo size/effeciency issue. I've seen similar things on stock GX-P turbo pulls. But I've also seen turbos that go to high torque and stay there, which means a more linear HP curve up to red line.

Let me ping our resident turbo guru.

[SeanPlunk]

Just wanted to show you all my new numbers after my retune.
its a 2007 wrx wagon with 6spd sti swap(SEAN I FINALLY DID IT!) and stock sti turbo with other mods.
Mods Before Retune
Vf43sti turbo w/ 08 sti Top mount
Full Turboback
Walbro255lph
TUNE=283whp/335tq

Mods ADDED FOR RETUNE
Turbo inlet hose w/ AEM CAI
BCS
NGK PLUGS 1 step colder.
TUNE with all the mods listed = 305whp/356tq and 335whp/372tq on 95 octane mix :)

This retune consisted of just a Turbo Inlet Hose and AEM Cold Air Intake and 1 step colder plugs.

My previous tune pulled 283whp/335Tq without inlet hose and intake.

here is my new retune! let me know what yall think!!! :drink:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/Getliftedgully/Vf43protune.jpg

This show my 91 Pump #'s as well as my 95 octane Tune!

Congrats - you finally did it :bigthumbsup:

305/356 is stout for 91 octane :judge:

How hard was the tranny swap?

[WagonSleeps]

Congrats - you finally did it :bigthumbsup:

305/356 is stout for 91 octane :judge:

How hard was the tranny swap?


Thanks Sean!
replying to the post above me, i am probably having breathing problems, lack of turbo size and my itty bitty 2.5 magnaflow axelback which is restricting free flow.


the 6 speed swap went smoothly, better than i expected.

all the 6spd parts, plus some new seals, new tranny oil, and waaalaah!
my axles mate up perfectly!

let me know when your next drag event is, iam very interested.

[WagonSleeps]

Congrats - you finally did it :bigthumbsup:

305/356 is stout for 91 octane :judge:

How hard was the tranny swap?


Thanks Sean!
replying to the post above me, i am probably having breathing problems, lack of turbo size and my itty bitty 2.5 magnaflow axelback which is restricting free flow.


the 6 speed swap went smoothly, better than i expected.

all the 6spd parts, plus some new seals, new tranny oil, and waaalaah!
my axles mate up perfectly!

let me know when your next drag event is, iam very interested.

Also, did you happen to see the e85 gt65 subaru torque curves?
I can show you a Evo chart or Subaru chart and the tq curves drop.
2 liter turbo cars? possibly the reason why.

Here below is a evoX with some mods, protuned. stock turbo.
Torque drops, but HP CLIMBS! boost drops, but the power climbs! .......................

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/Getliftedgully/ETSEVOX.png


id probably run a freakin 14 sec since ive never been to the drag strip :)

[WagonSleeps]

Let me ping our resident turbo guru.

good idea.

[MassAppeal]

Its because the Subaru has crappy heads and the STi turbo is still to dinky:laugh:

[WagonSleeps]

My tuners comments about this discussion

The reason TQ drops is 2 fold. 1-Boost drops. If you look at the dyno chart, boost and tq follow the same trend. 2-The subaru heads cannot flow for crap over 5500 due to the design of the ports. Evo on the other hand has better flow and with a turbo that can make flat boost to redline. It will hold TQ, but a V8 typically cant rev over 6-6500 where and evo can go to 9k+ and so can subies. Not to mention its HALF the displacement/Motor.

[MassAppeal]

dyno graph comparing the Wagon to a v8
http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww260/hbspeedEVO/wagonVSV8.jpg

[Vettezuki]

My tuners comments about this discussion

The reason TQ drops is 2 fold. 1-Boost drops. If you look at the dyno chart, boost and tq follow the same trend. 2-The subaru heads cannot flow for crap over 5500 due to the design of the ports. Evo on the other hand has better flow and with a turbo that can make flat boost to redline. It will hold TQ, but a V8 typically cant rev over 6-6500 where and evo can go to 9k+ and so can subies. Not to mention its HALF the displacement/Motor.

Well, the stock LS7 is 7k, lots of track V8s go to 8k and believe it or not NASCAR motors are built for continuous duty at 9-10k. When you say the evo "can go to 9k+", is that in a typical form, or easily done? What's the stock redline range on these Turbo 4s?

[MassAppeal]

My Evo rev limiter stock is 7600k its no problem taking it up to there but untuned its not really needed, now tuned I can go to 8100k which I see frequently:bigthumbsup:
subies usually do not go past 7-7200k, unless built for it

[Vettezuki]

My Evo rev limiter stock is 7600k its no problem taking it up to there but untuned its not really needed, now tuned I can go to 8100k which I see frequently:bigthumbsup:
subies usually do not go past 7-7200k, unless built for it

When do the EvoX heads stop breathing? Do they respond well to mild porting, or are they really pretty much a done deal stock?

[MassAppeal]

When do the EvoX heads stop breathing? Do they respond well to mild porting, or are they really pretty much a done deal stock?
They flow really really good. Don't have exact specs, have not really heard of people doing much porting yet. Car still to new, We are just starting to get some nice turbo upgrade options now:nuts:

[WagonSleeps]

jdm subaru motors run up to 8500 redline stock also.


we just get it bad in the u.s

[SeanPlunk]

jdm subaru motors run up to 8500 redline stock also.


we just get it bad in the u.s

8500rpm's stock? Sounds like a Ferrari :thumbs_up:

[heypal]

Nice number have a question for you though...Have I raced you?

[st-evo-9*corn fed-8urvet*]

cool beans just what i would expect outta that set up. :thumbs_up:

[MassAppeal]

Nice number have a question for you though...Have I raced you?

ummm...im not sure, what kind of car do you have?

[SeanPlunk]

ummm...im not sure, what kind of car do you have?

He has a FWD Turbo Impala. I think it's a 2003 but I could be wrong.

[heypal]

2001 impala with a turbo I raced a wrx wagon in brea before just wondering if its you...They guy I raced has come out to one of our meets before.

[WagonSleeps]

2001 impala with a turbo I raced a wrx wagon in brea before just wondering if its you...They guy I raced has come out to one of our meets before.

nope, wasnt me :)

[MassAppeal]

2001 impala with a turbo I raced a wrx wagon in brea before just wondering if its you...They guy I raced has come out to one of our meets before.
Well! did you win? :sm_laughing:

[heypal]

If I remember correctly I was ahead. But he had to turn so it wasn't anything big more of a short speed burst.

[WagonSleeps]

someone PM me this weekend if they wanna go do some 1/4 runs.


im really interested to see what the wagon can pull out.

[heypal]

I have a meet every sat...a street meet. pm me if your interested.

[SeanPlunk]

I have a meet every sat...a street meet. pm me if your interested.

Is your car up and running yet? I'd love to see it when I get home Sunday if so.

[heypal]

It's running can't keep driving it without a catch can but I'm tuning just got back from doing some scans. Looking okay so far.

[SeanPlunk]

It's running can't keep driving it without a catch can but I'm tuning just got back from doing some scans. Looking okay so far.

Excellent :bigthumbsup:

[BADDASSC6]

That's what I mean. Without sounding like a complete a$$hole, I've raced many STis and Evos at the track. The pull hard out of the hole then I walk right on by. Simply my engine continues to do more work (HP) where these motors flatten out fast. I'm talking about stock or moderately modded ones up to about your level. Beasts are beasts, different story.




Exactly. The HP would go up a lot more if the torque were more stable. This is a big part of the design in a turbo car, depending on application, where it will spend most of it's time (rev vs. boost), etc.

My point is that I think your car may have a slight breathing problem for the torque to fall off quite that rapidly. Probably a turbo size/effeciency issue. I've seen similar things on stock GX-P turbo pulls. But I've also seen turbos that go to high torque and stay there, which means a more linear HP curve up to red line.

Let me ping our resident turbo guru.

Concur, there is an intake restriction somewhere. Maybe you just need to turbo up. STI's have that turbulencevalve/resitictor that is often removed.

They are quick off the line because the owners rape their drivetrains not because of low end torque.

Ben when did you go with the heads and cam?

[SeanPlunk]

Concur, there is an intake restriction somewhere. Maybe you just need to turbo up. STI's have that turbulencevalve/resitictor that is often removed.

They are quick off the line because the owners rape their drivetrains not because of low end torque.

Ben when did you go with the heads and cam?

The engine he bought already had it done. I believe they are 4.8L truck heads that are milled and a smog legal 114lsa cam, but I could be wrong :huh:

[Vettezuki]

The engine he bought already had it done. I believe they are 4.8L truck heads that are milled and a smog legal 114lsa cam, but I could be wrong :huh:

You are correct sir. It's how I bought it:
Heads Milled & Ported (heavily), estimated 11:1 CR (methinks could be a bit higher)
CAM = 224/224 114LSA

390WHP on mild pump gas tune. Headers and 93-95 octane tune should put me well into the 400s :huh:

[WagonSleeps]

Concur, there is an intake restriction somewhere. Maybe you just need to turbo up. STI's have that turbulencevalve/resitictor that is often removed.

They are quick off the line because the owners rape their drivetrains not because of low end torque.

Ben when did you go with the heads and cam?

intake restriction is freed up, i have turbo inlet pipe to my cold air intake. and YES, bigger turbo would be better than STOCK of course. STi's do TGV deletes and the flow is optimized. We are quick off the line PERIOD...doesnt matter if we rape our drivetrains or not. Why do you think the rally cars have 300whp but 500tq????

FAQ.

STI 6 speed TRANSMISSIONS = NEARLY BULLETPROOF.
WRX 5 Speed = if modded, worry...

[BADDASSC6]

intake restriction is freed up, i have turbo inlet pipe to my cold air intake. and YES, bigger turbo would be better than STOCK of course. STi's do TGV deletes and the flow is optimized. We are quick off the line PERIOD...doesnt matter if we rape our drivetrains or not. Why do you think the rally cars have 300whp but 500tq????

FAQ.

STI 6 speed TRANSMISSIONS = NEARLY BULLETPROOF.
WRX 5 Speed = if modded, worry...


WRXwagon, not trying to spin you up, but the REAL ralley cars make 500ftlbs with only 300hp because they have an intake restrictor that is mandated.
HP= torque X RPM / 5250.

STIs have super long intake runners which while increase low end torque will cause flow restrictions up top, the same can be said about the baby turbo.

Bulletproof or being quick off the line are both matters of opionion and relative. STI based on my expierences and observations are niether:drink:.

[Vettezuki]

WRXwagon, not trying to spin you up, but the REAL ralley cars make 500ftlbs with only 300hp because they have an intake restrictor that is mandated.
HP= torque X RPM / 5250.

STIs have super long intake runners which while increase low end torque will cause flow restrictions up top, the same can be said about the baby turbo.

Bulletproof or being quick off the line are both matters of opionion and relative. STI based on my expierences and observations are niether:drink:.


You speak truth to power. However, to my knowledge, there is a HUGE difference in how tough the JDM trans vs. USDM so maybe that's what he means. :huh:

[WagonSleeps]

WRXwagon, not trying to spin you up, but the REAL ralley cars make 500ftlbs with only 300hp because they have an intake restrictor that is mandated.
HP= torque X RPM / 5250.

STIs have super long intake runners which while increase low end torque will cause flow restrictions up top, the same can be said about the baby turbo.

Bulletproof or being quick off the line are both matters of opionion and relative. STI based on my expierences and observations are niether:drink:.

hahah are you serious??? its all in the tune, we do not have only 300whp and 500Tq because of mechanical reasons on the RALLY cars, RALLY cars are tuned accordingly using certain mechanics and mods that arent on roadrace cars, add/pull timing, etc etc. your intake restrictor makes no sense if your talking about subarus in general. Rally cars maybe. NOW, if you read the other posts, our subarus have restrictive HEADS which hurts our cars, YES. my intake to turbo inlet to turbo is as free flowing as it gets with a intake. ALSO our cars have MAF sensor on our intake to read the air flow. Our cars can take in air as much as we want, its called tuner/tuning.............AFR?? more fuel, less air. less air, more fuel. etc etc...

not to burst your bubble, your statement above is totally incorrect, what is the point in having a "rally" car having 500whp in a back canyon dirt road where you cant even open up all that hp?????? As a rally cars tq is needed to pull out of those sharp turns and whatnot, you do not speak of the truth. Intake Restriction???? explain alittle more cause im totally confused. Intake to Turbo Inlet to Turbo.



JDM STI TRANNY OR USDM STI TRANNY OR NOT.

Being bullet proof or being fast off the line is not an opinion, its a fact my friend:laugh:

Obviously you have no knowledge in the history of STI 6 speeds. and what it can and cant do.

Thats why so many people on NASIOC, IWSTI, CLUBWRX forums consider PPG gears and STi 6 speed transmissions to be upgrades for people who run 400tq or more :). Thats why they have fully prepped Roadrace cars with STOCK 6 speeds...

if you had experiences where the 6 speed has failed, the DRIVER DEFINITELY FAILED, not the tranny.

[Vettezuki]

I don't know about BADDASS's personal experience, BUT:

Don't know what current (last year's) rally rules are but they have had to run various intake restrictors (34mm - 40mm) for years. The express purpose is limiting power. Same as restrictor plates on NASCAR, rev limits on F1, etc.

Don't know about your trans, but I have a friend at work who had a moderately built STi. He broke a couple transmissions. What years are you referring to as bullet proof? Maybe there was a design change at some point in recent history. :huh:

As far as the engineering of engine building, right down to the physics of combustion, thermal efficiencies, etc., I don't think there's anyone here that knows more than BADDASS.

[WagonSleeps]

^ i don't disagree at all. im sure he is filled with knowledge and im open to being taught some lesson :)

As far as the STi Trans.

Nearly Bulletproof was my statement. Indeed transmissions can go, but from the history and beatdown that these trannys have had on roadrace to rally to any other events, these trannys do no give out.

Even after LC and FFS on drag strips, time after time, these trannys do not go...Axles break before tranny.


5 speeds have nothing to do with the sti tranny. 5 speeds are anti torque, and will have a tendency to break a gear with the right amount of tq.

[Vettezuki]

^ i don't disagree at all. im sure he is filled with knowledge and im open to being taught some lesson :)

As far as the STi Trans.

Nearly Bulletproof was my statement. Indeed transmissions can go, but from the history and beatdown that these trannys have had on roadrace to rally to any other events, these trannys do no give out.

Even after LC and FFS on drag strips, time after time, these trannys do not go...Axles break before tranny.


5 speeds have nothing to do with the sti tranny. 5 speeds are anti torque, and will have a tendency to break a gear with the right amount of tq.

Ok now we're getting somewhere.

5 speed vs. 6 speed

You're saying 6 speed is the much tougher one. I'm assuming you mean 6 speed manual.

- This is a Subie trans right?
- From when was it stock (i.e., when did it replace the 5 speed).
- What are PPG gears? Are they stock or aftermarket gears that go into the Subie trans?

I'm pretty sure my colleagues trans that he broke a couple times was a 5 speed, but I'm not sure. It was a few years ago.

[SeanPlunk]

Ok now we're getting somewhere.

5 speed vs. 6 speed

You're saying 6 speed is the much tougher one. I'm assuming you mean 6 speed manual.

- This is a Subie trans right?
- From when was it stock (i.e., when did it replace the 5 speed).
- What are PPG gears? Are they stock or aftermarket gears that go into the Subie trans?

I'm pretty sure my colleagues trans that he broke a couple times was a 5 speed, but I'm not sure. It was a few years ago.

The STi has always had a 6-speed manual. As far as I know it has always been a robust unit with a good reputation. The normal WRX transmissions however (5-speed manuals) have a reputation for being fairly weak above stock power levels. I believe the 2002-2004 WRX 5-speeds were the worst and the newer ones are slightly better.

[BADDASSC6]

hahah are you serious??? its all in the tune, we do not have only 300whp and 500Tq because of mechanical reasons on the RALLY cars, RALLY cars are tuned accordingly using certain mechanics and mods that arent on roadrace cars, add/pull timing, etc etc. your intake restrictor makes no sense if your talking about subarus in general. Rally cars maybe. NOW, if you read the other posts, our subarus have restrictive HEADS which hurts our cars, YES. my intake to turbo inlet to turbo is as free flowing as it gets with a intake. ALSO our cars have MAF sensor on our intake to read the air flow. Our cars can take in air as much as we want, its called tuner/tuning.............AFR?? more fuel, less air. less air, more fuel. etc etc...

not to burst your bubble, your statement above is totally incorrect, what is the point in having a "rally" car having 500whp in a back canyon dirt road where you cant even open up all that hp?????? As a rally cars tq is needed to pull out of those sharp turns and whatnot, you do not speak of the truth. Intake Restriction???? explain alittle more cause im totally confused. Intake to Turbo Inlet to Turbo.



JDM STI TRANNY OR USDM STI TRANNY OR NOT.

Being bullet proof or being fast off the line is not an opinion, its a fact my friend:laugh:

Obviously you have no knowledge in the history of STI 6 speeds. and what it can and cant do.

Thats why so many people on NASIOC, IWSTI, CLUBWRX forums consider PPG gears and STi 6 speed transmissions to be upgrades for people who run 400tq or more :). Thats why they have fully prepped Roadrace cars with STOCK 6 speeds...

if you had experiences where the 6 speed has failed, the DRIVER DEFINITELY FAILED, not the tranny.

Dude, I am serious. They really do run intake restrictors on ralley cars, look it up:). Pulling boost timing doesn't work because it is impossible to enforce. When the race starts a different tune is less than a push of a button away.

There is no lesson to be taught here or any bubble to be burst. Older rally car had way more power, but there was a death toll associated with that power. Just like NASCAR, in the name of safety they added the restrictors. (might change now that the turbos are going away).

Yes you might have deleted the tumblers in the intake stream, but that diesn't change the fact that you have super long intake runners and a baby dick turbo:smack:. If the heads suck too then thats just one more reason as to why your car is shit. MAF are great! my truck has one, my vette has one, my old mustang had one, they have their limits as to what they can compensate for. That little heated element will peg high.

AFR can be changed, but if you knew as much about tuning as you speak you would realize that it is not something used to limit power. Stray too far from ideal and things pop.

Finally, I tried (a little bit) to not be a dick in my previous post. With that said your car is slow and you failed epicly at realizing that Vettezuki was trying to let you know that you were actually wrong and that they have restrictors.

If you need a lesson taught that can be done. I will be happy to comply just let me know if I need to dust off my old fluild flow analysis text books or mount the DRs on the vette. I'm sure you are not ready to deal with either of them.

[Vettezuki]

Jeez tough crowd. :sm_laughing:

WagonSleeps

I know we sound like dicks, and maybe we are a little bit, but more than anything we care about technical accuracy.

All I was really trying to do is to point out that while your ride is fairly stout, it seems there's quite a bit left on the table and it all comes down to the engine as an air pump; it's simply choking up somewhere. And in your specific case it seems to be a combination of of turbo size and head flow, hence the reason the torque falls off and the HP flattens out. Keep the torque up with better breathing and the HP is gonna climb considerably. Think your car pulls now, it'll be a different world if you address this.

In principle the FIA mandates restrictors to force the technical "problem" that you are having.

See here for a concise overview:
http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/turbo_restrictors.html

[WagonSleeps]

Dude, I am serious. They really do run intake restrictors on ralley cars, look it up:). Pulling boost timing doesn't work because it is impossible to enforce. When the race starts a different tune is less than a push of a button away.

There is no lesson to be taught here or any bubble to be burst. Older rally car had way more power, but there was a death toll associated with that power. Just like NASCAR, in the name of safety they added the restrictors. (might change now that the turbos are going away).

Yes you might have deleted the tumblers in the intake stream, but that diesn't change the fact that you have super long intake runners and a baby dick turbo:smack:. If the heads suck too then thats just one more reason as to why your car is shit. MAF are great! my truck has one, my vette has one, my old mustang had one, they have their limits as to what they can compensate for. That little heated element will peg high.

AFR can be changed, but if you knew as much about tuning as you speak you would realize that it is not something used to limit power. Stray too far from ideal and things pop.

Finally, I tried (a little bit) to not be a dick in my previous post. With that said your car is slow and you failed epicly at realizing that Vettezuki was trying to let you know that you were actually wrong and that they have restrictors.

If you need a lesson taught that can be done. I will be happy to comply just let me know if I need to dust off my old fluild flow analysis text books or mount the DRs on the vette. I'm sure you are not ready to deal with either of them.

When you speak of tumblers, are you talking about tgv valves? do you refer intake manifold as intake runners??? Ours cars have them stock. Some people do tgv deletes when they go to a larger turbo setup. As to rally cars, they do not restrict these area im sure. if anything they are left as is with the valves still intact. To each rally car, has its own characteristics. dont assume these cars are the same as all other rally cars. Teach me something when you...yourself have no idea about our cars specifically? Did you have any clue that any power mod on a subaru wrx/sti must need a tune or engine will fail? Did you know we run Flat 4 motor? If power is the only thing that impresses you and just cause a wrx wagon 2.5 liter turbo engine doesnt have as good flowing heads as other motors and that will justify my car being SHIT????? :bigthumbsup:

As goes for AFR? Correct air and fuel mixture used accordingly... i know buddy..not to limit power.........

as for baby dick turbos, yea the baby dick turbo has thousand and thousands of 1/4 mile registry posts running constant 11-13 seconds w/ 1.6-1.8 60fts. pending conditions and drivers and states.
vf43 vf39 series turbos.


First off, i didnt post this in the IMPORT section to have you talk shit about my wagon that you seem to be offended of, or seem to be calling me out?!?!?! I respect all cars and its own perks and good things and have nothing bad to say as Sean would know.

Seems as if your putting a conclusion just to my motor and that being said called shit? Im not offended in anything you have to say, just entertaining to see so much hate on a wagon that was never produced to compete with most of the cars out there, yet your badassc6.........


But if you want, in due time, ill gladly take my car out on a track/dragstrip/autox/canyon run and see if your cars power is as good as your driving skills. your gonna need abit more than just DR's. and 1/4 mile times to tell me my car is shit. Come play and then come to a conclusion. You better know how to really drive in all road courses.....

381 to the crank on a wagon that has handling that you have no idea about and your gonna say its shit??!?!?! 3100lb car im 400+ to the crank on 95 octane. all i can conclude about you is your just a straight hater.

as goes for transmissions.

04-08 sti 6 speeds all the same 07-08's came with longer 3rd 4th and 5th gears.

02-03 wrx 5 speeds are glass trannys.
04-07 wrx 5 speeds have a diff ratios but same gears. bit stronger but nowhere to not worry about if modified.
08+ wrx 5 speeds came with the LGT gears since the ratios were better matched, the power levels can hold better and less broken trannys.


if this is why i came onto this forum, then this is ridiculous.

[Vettezuki]

. . . . But if you want, in due time, ill gladly take my car out on a track/dragstrip/autox/canyon run and see if your cars power is as good as your driving skills. your gonna need abit more than just DR's. and 1/4 mile times to tell me my car is shit. Come play and then come to a conclusion. You better know how to really drive in all road courses.....

Ruh roh . . . . his Vette is set up for and he has 10x the experience at road courses as he does at the strip.

All in all, let's keep this focused on technical facts that can be supported with references for the purposes of actually learning something and having some fun. I don't want to have to push this into the Cafe.

For your reference:

NOT FACTS
"haha are you serious?????"
". . . your car is shit"

FACT
A drunken monkey can out shift Sean nine times out of ten.

Wagon,
Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread, but are you happy with where you are at? What plans do you have for this engine?

[Vettezuki]

. . . do you refer intake manifold as intake runners??? . . .

Intake runners are the channels the air follows within the intake manifold as the air is sucked/pushed towards the intake port on the heads. As a rule of thumb, longer runners equal more lod-mid torque at the expense of high rev HP. Short runners "breathe faster" at higher revs. Very sophisticated engines, like some liter bikes now days use variable length runners that adjust according to rpm to optimize engine performance across the rev range.

The effect is a function of the velocity the air is traveling. Note, the effect you are having as can be seen in your sheet is the same as what is caused by the turbo restrictor on rally cars. Those engines actually get about a 20% bump in peak torque at low revs at the expense of about a 40% drop in peak HP at high revs, because of the restrictor. Given the choice Rally drivers would much prefer higher peak HP. They are restricted by the FIA as a safety issue. HP is a measure of work being done, torque is just a measure of force. More HP simply means a greater capacity for acceleration and top speed.

Having a strong bump in peak torque in the low-mid range is very useful on the street and especially tight quarters (e.g., typical AutoX). It becomes less of a factor rapidly on Big Open Road Courses, at the strip, and basically irrelevant for top speed runs.

Many of the great race engines through history to present are not very "torquey". Using the current 2.4L NA V8 in F1 cars as an example, you make considerably more torque than that engine ever does (roughly 200 ft. lbs). . . but they spin to 18,000+rpm and keep breathing, hence the 700+ HP.

This is the best I can explain it in concise terms based on my devoted amateur understanding.

In conclusion, if you're happy with the response of an engine with a strong peak torque curve low in the rev range, then you already have what you want. If you want a faster top end, you will need to make more power, and to do that you'll have to address the problem of air flow through the engine system at higher rpms. That's about it. :)

[SeanPlunk]

as goes for transmissions.

04-08 sti 6 speeds all the same 07-08's came with longer 3rd 4th and 5th gears.

02-03 wrx 5 speeds are glass trannys.
04-07 wrx 5 speeds have a diff ratios but same gears. bit stronger but nowhere to not worry about if modified.
08+ wrx 5 speeds came with the LGT gears since the ratios were better matched, the power levels can hold better and less broken trannys.


if this is why i came onto this forum, then this is ridiculous.

I'm curious, do you know what the weak link is in the normal wrx tranmissions? Is it an input shaft, output shaft, or do they actually break gears? Don't worry about Badass, I think you're holding your own nicely :bigthumbsup:

Now that you have your tranny in, what are you looking at next as far as mods are concerned? Have you upgraded axles yet? I would imagine at your power level that would be something you'd have to deal with :huh:

[WagonSleeps]

^^ Im not a Guru, just a person whos willing to hear some facts and statements that are backed up as well. but all in all, im not here to start trouble, nor bagg on certain cars or leave a bad rep for myself.

But my car is good for NOW, comming from a car that only had 200whp or less from factory, to 305whp on pump is a good bump for me. Fishing, Snowboarding, and lots of outdoor recreation, helps to have a wagon like this.


Sean, as for the 5 speeds, case flex was determined to be the cause. since 02 bugeyes first appeared with a bump in power compared to the other subaru non-turbo models. the 5 speed transmission was a no go. Same 5 speeds used in the non-turbo subarus. The actual gear itself would shatter. 3rd was the lucky gear that would always blow out. My 5 speed with 9k had blown 3rd gear..Subaru called it abuse but they would give me half off on the parts and labor, after the new rebuild, i had put down 335tq on pump on the tune previous to the chart you see. 45k on the tranny with more torque than i had stock and it held up just fine. but many people realize the 5 speed case will flex under good amounts of torque, causing the gears to flex, putting loads of pressure on the gear and boom.


My conclusion is, 02-07 still have issues with high tq. Some people have 100k ok their 5 speeds and they are still fine. The gear ratios on a Legacy GT is 4.44(i believe)compared to wrx models 3.7 and 3.9 fd. far more better matched. the 3rd gear is breaking from good amount of load. a


then again, the Legacy GT models came with same exact 5 speeds with different gear ratios and a different FD. These models with the LGT 5 speeds rarely have issues with their transmission even under modified power.

All in all, when the 5 speed came out from my car...it was PUNY compared to the 6 speed, and put a big relief on my car and i once the 6 speedo came in.

As far as future mods?

Axles will eventually go if i launch night and day. but im sure it can hold since the car isnt driven aggressively off the line on a day to day basis.

when the power comes, im looking for quick spool with a good 350whp. Lot of different routes to take to hit that number but. Im looking towards meth injection or a e85 race map. only time will tell :pot_stir:

[SeanPlunk]

^^ Im not a Guru in terms of automobiles, but i know how they function and tend to learn more and more about the car i drive.


Sean, as for the 5 speeds. since 02 bugeyes first appeared. the 5 speed transmission was a no go. The actual gear itself would shatter. 3rd was the lucky gear that would always blow out. My 5 speed with 9k had blown 3rd gear..Subaru called it abuse but they would give me half off on the parts and labor, after the new rebuild, i had put down 335tq on pump on the tune previous to the chart you see. 45k on the tranny with more torque than i had stock and it held up just fine.


My conclusion is, 02-07 still have issues with high tq. Some people have 100k ok their 5 speeds and they are still fine. The gear ratios on a Legacy GT is 4.44 compared to wrx models 3.7 and 3.9 fd. far more better matched. the 3rd gear is breaking from good amount of load


then again, the Legacy GT models came with same exact 5 speeds with different gear ratios and a different FD. These models with the LGT 5 speeds rarely have issues with their transmission even under modified power.

All in all, when the 5 speed came out from my car...it was PUNY compared to the 6 speed, and put a big relief on my car and i once the 6 speedo came in.

As far as future mods?

Axles will eventually go if i launch night and day. but im sure it can hold since the car isnt driven aggressively off the line on a day to day basis.

when the power comes, im looking for quick spool with a good 350whp. Lot of different routes to take to hit that number but. Im looking towards meth injection or a e85 race map. only time will tell :pot_stir:

My brother has meth injection on his turbo buick and loves it. I think he's running 20psi with 91pump+meth.

As for the transmissions, it's very interesting to here. I'm surprised Subaru wouldn't put a stronger transmission in WRX's. I mean, they had to figure owners would run them hard after all.

Perhaps we should just swap in a unit from a Nissan GTR - we know those hold up to power well :thumbs_up:

[Vettezuki]

My brother has meth injection on his turbo buick and loves it. I think he's running 20psi with 91pump+meth.

As for the transmissions, it's very interesting to here. I'm surprised Subaru wouldn't put a stronger transmission in WRX's. I mean, they had to figure owners would run them hard after all.

Perhaps we should just swap in a unit from a Nissan GTR - we know those hold up to power well :thumbs_up:

If you're inclined to deal with locating E85, I'd vote for that route. Turbo setups LOVE E85. CornFeds difference in output on the same exact setup between Pump and E85 was massive across the whole curve. It really is a great performance fuel. If the tree-huggers make it a bit more available in CA, I'd probably go that route myself on a vicious NA setup.

[BADDASSC6]

Alright peace. I will not slam your car again for the sake of open communication.

I know your car well. I know intake manifolds well. So your flat four has two heads, one on each side. The car really has one common intake location the Throttle valve.

What connects the two? The intake manifold. The different parts of the manifold are the intake runners, the plenum, and various connectors (i.e. vacuum hoses, idle bypass valves, fuel injector bungs etc...).

The larger the intake plenum the better the manifold performs on the top end. The smaller the plenum the better for low end. This is due to the pressure pulses and drops causes the the valve opening and closing events and how it is dissipated or not. I could get more specific, but I don't want to write that much. This is why 96-2001 Mustang Cobras had the valve in the intake manifold runners that shut in the low end to build low end torque.

Intake runners are the long tubes or short tubes that run from the plenum to the cylinder head. Longer tubes help generate higher air velocity which helps with cylinder filling and thus builds low end torque. Shorter tubes will minimize the distance that needs to be traveled and thus increase the maximum amount of air that can be pushed through which helps build top end power by not restricting flow.

WRXs and STIs have small plenums and long runners. Some of the characteristics are masked by the turbos.

Intake restrictors will allow a certain amount of flow when they hit their limit that's it regardless of RPM. That's why they limit power so well. A motor is a positive displacement pump that is moving a constant amount of fluid per revolution. So you have a limiter the restricts fluid flow per unit time and a pump that moves a set amount per revolution. As the revolutions per minute increase you go from the restrictors not playing much of a role to the restrictor becoming the major forcing function.

So that 300 hp 2.0L (not 2.5 for the real ralley cars) that makes 500ftlbs. is really capable of making 600+hp without the restrictor. I will concede that the cams and turbos have been optimized to spool quickly.

[Vettezuki]

:drink:

[Vettezuki]

. . . Some people do tgv deletes when they go to a larger turbo setup. As to rally cars, they do not restrict these area im sure.

Yes.They.Do.

Specifically the turbo inlet.

In case you missed it the first time.. . . .

In principle the FIA mandates restrictors to force the technical "problem" that you are having.

See here for a concise overview:
http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/turbo_restrictors.html



To each rally car, has its own characteristics. dont assume these cars are the same as all other rally cars.

Correct. They are called groups. Here are the current FIA Sporting Regs.

http://www.fia.com/sport/Regulations/rallyregs.html


HISTORY
You've got to understand something. While our street cars are better and faster than ever, the world of Motorsport has been relatively tamed down from past eras. With the exception of some drag racing, the world of auto racing is no where near peak power or top speeds.

NASCAR was screaming past 200mph in the 60s before serious restrictions came in to slow them down.

Open cockpit Porsches were doing 240+!! at Le Mans in the 70s.

1.5L Turbo F1 motors were making 1,500HP in the 80s.

Group B Rally Cars from 80s. Well OVER 500HP. You NEED to watch this (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/The-story-of-Group-B-cars_147606.htm).

What do they all have in common? Death. Lots of it. Hence the safety rules from various governing bodies. Hence restrictions manifest in such things as restrictors. And that's about it.


DUMB PART
Here's the dumb part of this thread.

No Motorgen user thinks that a specific make model is better than every other make model just because. It's kind of the basic idea of this site. I own a Corvette and so does BA, but for fairly different reasons and purposes. I also own a truck, jeep, daily driver hatchback and motorcycle which is different than any car. They serve very different purposes according to their design. I'm sure my Vette will flat walk away from you at a roll, beat you soundly in the 1/4 and do just fine through canyon roads. So what? It's not a terribly practical car and certainly can't go off road. The MG project car is an RX-7 with Blown Small Block Ford. I've got a serious itch in my pants to do a Silvia Swap on a 240Z. BA built an E85 Turbo Spec racer as part of his engineering program and has considered an Evo for road racing.

MY POINT
Don't think that you have a couple domestic Corvette nut swingers ganging up on you just because you drive an import. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are, in our own caustic way, having some fun and attempting to communicate some knowledge about engine dynamics (which are true regardless of make/model) that may help you build something that is more of what you want. That's THE point.

[WagonSleeps]

Yes.They.Do.

Specifically the turbo inlet.

In case you missed it the first time.





Correct. They are called groups. Here are the current FIA Sporting Regs.

http://www.fia.com/sport/Regulations/rallyregs.html


HISTORY
You've got to understand something. While our street cars are better and faster than ever, the world of Motorsport has been relatively tamed down from past eras. With the exception of some drag racing, the world of auto racing is no where near peak power or top speeds.

NASCAR was screaming past 200mph in the 60s before serious restrictions came in to slow them down.

Open cockpit Porsches were doing 240+!! at Le Mans in the 70s.

1.5L Turbo F1 motors were making 1,500HP in the 80s.

Group B Rally Cars from 80s. Well OVER 500HP. You NEED to watch this (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/The-story-of-Group-B-cars_147606.htm).

What do they all have in common? Death. Lots of it. Hence the safety rules from various governing bodies. Hence restrictions manifest in such things as restrictors. And that's about it.


DUMB PART
Here's the dumb part of this thread.

No Motorgen user thinks that a specific make model is better than every other make model just because. It's kind of the basic idea of this site. I own a Corvette and so does BA, but for fairly different reasons and purposes. I also own a truck, jeep, daily driver hatchback and motorcycle which is different than any car. They serve very different purposes according to their design. I'm sure my Vette will flat walk away from you at a roll, beat you soundly in the 1/4 and do just fine through canyon roads. So what? It's not a terribly practical car and certainly can't go off road. The MG project car is an RX-7 with Blown Small Block Ford. I've got a serious itch in my pants to do a Silvia Swap on a 240Z. BA built an E85 Turbo Spec racer as part of his engineering program and has considered an Evo for road racing.

MY POINT
Don't think that you have a couple domestic Corvette nut swingers ganging up on you just because you drive an import. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are, in our own caustic way, having some fun and attempting to communicate some knowledge about engine dynamics (which are true regardless of make/model) that may help you build something that is more of what you want. That's THE point.


as to what i can see, you guys arent trying to prove a point or anything. Only thing i see is you plainly talking shit in a polite manner. Like i said this THREAD IS For discussion, yet you still have to ramp on about how you will spank me, soundly beat me in the 1/4 mile?? WTF.......


Cool guy, how about you stop rambling about how your vett will spank me walk on me from a roll etc etc.. your saying this to a STOCK STi Turbo wagon........hahahahah holy cow. I Post a Dyno chart of my retune and all i get is this, im sure this is why i see the same 4-5 people posting and thats it......

vett and badassc6 :hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail: there you go....youll own me in anyway possible.


Tell me when the next drag event is, im sure this guy named Steve with GT30r in a STi, 492whp will gladly come with me and open up a new asshole for you. Was that mature to say in a discussion like this???? NO. I never called you guys out or had said anything negative about your cars or saying you are slow until now. If you saying your car will spank me impress yourself? Good for you, hope that made you feel better about yourself and how cocky you are.


here you go buddy :hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail:

you saying let me put on my Dr's is like me saying ohhh let me go put in my race gas and LC and FFS.......

bring your car as is, daily driven tires, and LETS DO A DIG. see how well you can launch all that power and some..

A ROLL is a ROLL, but can you DIG it??? harr harr harr..

[SeanPlunk]

as to what i can see, you guys arent trying to prove a point or anything. Only thing i see is you plainly talking shit in a polite manner. Like i said this THREAD IS For discussion, yet you still have to ramp on about how you will spank me, soundly beat me in the 1/4 mile?? WTF.......


Cool guy, how about you stop rambling about how your vett will spank me walk on me from a roll etc etc.. your saying this to a STOCK STi Turbo wagon........hahahahah holy cow

:hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail:


Tell me when the next drag event is, im sure this guy named Steve with GT30r in a STi, 492whp will gladly come with me and open up a new asshole for you. Was that mature to say in a discussion like this???? NO. I never called you guys out or had said anything negative about your cars or saying you are slow until now. If you saying your car will spank me impress yourself? Good for you my buddy.


here you go buddy :hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail:

There are lots of cars that would spank mine, but it doesn't mean I like them better. The Cobra handles marginally at best and is big and heavy - but I love my car. I thought about buying a C5 Z06 at the time (which stock for stock is faster than a Cobra through the quarter and easily quicker around a track) but I like the Cobra better. I like having a backseat, and I like the way they look better.

Comparing cars like this just gets silly. Corvettes are more expensive than the WRX and also not nearly as practical. I think the WRX Wagon is an awesome sleeper, I'd have a lot of fun in it :bigthumbsup:

[Vettezuki]

as to what i can see, you guys arent trying to prove a point or anything. Only thing i see is you plainly talking shit in a polite manner. Like i said this THREAD IS For discussion, yet you still have to ramp on about how you will spank me, soundly beat me in the 1/4 mile?? WTF.......


Cool guy, how about you stop rambling about how your vett will spank me walk on me from a roll etc etc.. your saying this to a STOCK STi Turbo wagon........hahahahah holy cow. I Post a Dyno chart of my retune and all i get is this, im sure this is why i see the same 4-5 people posting and thats it......

vett and badassc6 :hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail: there you go....youll own me in anyway possible.


Tell me when the next drag event is, im sure this guy named Steve with GT30r in a STi, 492whp will gladly come with me and open up a new asshole for you. Was that mature to say in a discussion like this???? NO. I never called you guys out or had said anything negative about your cars or saying you are slow until now. If you saying your car will spank me impress yourself? Good for you, hope that made you feel better about yourself and how cocky you are.


here you go buddy :hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail:

you saying let me put on my Dr's is like me saying ohhh let me go put in my race gas and LC and FFS.......

bring your car as is, daily driven tires, and LETS DO A DIG. see how well you can launch all that power and some..

A ROLL is a ROLL, but can you DIG it??? harr harr harr..

:bang:

You have a very selective way of reading. Apparently you missed the "So what?" part. It precisely dose NOT matter that I could or could not beat you, they are completely different cars with different designs for different purposes. That is my point. It does not matter. Do you have what you want? That matters.

Let me reverse the order and make the same point. Your friend's built STi could probably thrash my Vette in every measurable way. How much do I care? Zero. Because the Vette's purpose in my life is not to beat built STis, or anything else for that matter (other than Sean.) It performs at a level and in a way I enjoy. I will continue to focus on and improve aspects over time with the help of people here who have knowledge I don't, or simply bring up an idea I didn't think of. A guy who is way into Turbo 4-cyl cars, but who knows the physics of chassis design, engine building, transmissions, or has knowledge about fabrication can provide a lot of useful information to me regardless of what he chooses to drive. Am I making myself clear?

Just trying to talk shit politely? Nonsense. You now have pages of technical information constituting a discussion on the specifics of the subject (that is an engine making power) that you posted about. Remember I first posted regarding the specifics of the torque curve in your dyno sheet, which looked a little peculiar to me the way it falls off. I was just trying to identify specifically what causes that and how it could be addressed . . . if you wanted to.

While you accuse BA and me of just riding your ass (partially true) and not discussing anything (completely false) you have made statements about Rally cars and restrictions that are absolutely false.

Are you interested in building your knowledge or did you just want some acknowledgment for your accomplishment? If it's the latter then my apologies for wasting your time.

[WagonSleeps]

:bang:

You have a very selective way of reading. Apparently you missed the "So what?" part. It precisely dose NOT matter that I could or could not beat you, they are completely different cars with different designs for different purposes. That is my point. It does not matter. Do you have what you want? That matters.

Let me reverse the order and make the same point. Your friend's built STi could probably thrash my Vette in every measurable way. How much do I care? Zero. Because the Vette's purpose in my life is not to beat built STis, or anything else for that matter (other than Sean.) It performs at a level and in a way I enjoy. I will continue to focus on and improve aspects over time with the help of people here who have knowledge I don't, or simply bring up an idea I didn't think of. A guy who is way into Turbo 4-cyl cars, but who knows the physics of chassis design, engine building, transmissions, or has knowledge about fabrication can provide a lot of useful information to me regardless of what he chooses to drive. Am I making myself clear?

Just trying to talk shit politely? Nonsense. You now have pages of technical information constituting a discussion on the specifics of the subject (that is an engine making power) that you posted about. Remember I first posted regarding the specifics of the torque curve in your dyno sheet, which looked a little peculiar to me the way it falls off. I was just trying to identify specifically what causes that and how it could be addressed . . . if you wanted to.

While you accuse BA and me of just riding your ass (partially true) and not discussing anything (completely false) you have made statements about Rally cars and restrictions that are absolutely false.

Are you interested in building your knowledge or did you just want some acknowledgment for your accomplishment? If it's the latter then my apologies for wasting your time.

Building my knowledge and some acknowledgment is practically whats expected in a forum discussion. Like i said, i am open to opinions without flaming and talking straight shit. I know this vf43 is a dinky turbo and i DONT know why that would be a reason for my car being SHIT???. i know my car lacks air flow and is restricted in certain areas, i know that my car is nowhere near comparable to a vett or any other high hp cars. But like Sean stated above, each person has their likings and nobody will ever come to a conclusion saying in each persons Opinion in what car is shit or not.



Vette i know we started getting into the torque curve discussion, did i not reply back with the info you needed to figure out why our cars have torque curves we do??? The questions you have discussed were partially answered from my tuner and gave you more of a understanding.

Then, we had gotten into this transmission discussion and all of a sudden you have a person, who really, really didnt know jack shit about usdm or jdm or 5 speeds or 6 speeds that subarus are equipped with. So how in the hell would they come to a conclusion or statement saying that our cars that claim being fast off the line and have good low end power without our trannys breaking down an opinion and not a fact??? Nearly bulletproof the 6 speed is a fact. Roadrace cars with 600+whp and tq still use sti 6 speeds. I never said BULLETPROOF, GO AHEAD TAKE A CRACK AT IT!

I never said 1 thing about anyones cars, but i shouldve assumed there would be some randoms who post on here with off the subject statements and facts that have nothing to do with MY car.

From reviewing this whole thread, questions were not even asked about my car to simply have some more knowledge. More just to post on this thread and say some smart ass remark as well as people starting to stay on the subject, but get so damn cocky, they start to get sidetracked and try to prove a point...


I will admit being false in the "Rally" discussion and my knowledge about these restrictors were not of a understanding to me fully.

If my wagon with the power it has, as well as being able to drive a/s tires without much tractions loss, going up in the snow without any chains/tires etc. being able to fit 3-4 snowboards and carry 3 people without racks? being able to drive in the rain without worrys of traction loss is weak and something you have no interest in. then keep it to yourself.

If you wanna talk about my future mods and things that could of help me out instead of calling my car SHIT with a quick conclusion, im more happy to discuss and vent about this.

My car was purposely bought for my recreational life and purposes. Like i really bought my wagon to build up power and come run my mouth??? F*** NO.

Shouldve titled the THREAD, NO FLAMERS

the 492whp STi is running on Stock internals, Stock clutch. C16 race gas 28psi......

[Vettezuki]

. . . Vette i know we started getting into the torque curve discussion, did i not reply back with the info you needed to figure out why our cars have torque curves we do??? The questions you have discussed were partially answered from my tuner and gave you more of a understanding.

Correct and MassAppeal and BA added some details about heads and intake runners. So I have a pretty good idea of why it has the curve it does. And what, if I had the car and was interested in efficiently increasing power, what I'd do about it. Directly relevant to the post and inquiry.

From reviewing this whole thread, questions were not even asked about my car to simply have some more knowledge. More just to post on this thread and say some smart ass remark as well as people starting to stay on the subject, but get so damn cocky, they start to get sidetracked and try to prove a point...

I will not argue about perceptions. But I have a different one.

I will admit being false in the "Rally" discussion and my knowledge about these restrictors were not of a understanding to me fully.

Fair enough . . . but you were pretty cocky about it. ;)

If my wagon with the power it has, as well as being able to drive a/s tires without much tractions loss, going up in the snow without any chains/tires etc. being able to fit 3-4 snowboards and carry 3 people without racks? being able to drive in the rain without worrys of traction loss is weak and something you have no interest in. then keep it to yourself.

EXACTLY. I have a hatchback and I love it. When its time comes, a Legacy STi is specifically high on my list to replace it for these precise reasons.


If you wanna talk about my future mods and things that could of help me out . . .

Indeed I have asked this exact question.

Shouldve titled the THREAD, NO FLAMERS

What about Sean?

[Vettezuki]

Clarification on trans.

Talked my colleague at work. He had an 02 WRX with various mods taking the stock turbo up to about 17.5psi. Estimated HP (based on ETs and weight) 350-375 BHP. He had a Palmdale adjusted speed of 12.7@104.

He had a car assembled in Japan, not TN. (Apparently a JDM 5 speed trans.) He says he beat the ever living hell out of that trans for a long time. Then it chipped a tooth in first gear. He then regretfully had it replaced with a USDM unit. It shredded 2nd gear at 1,000 miles. He replaced it again and it shredded 3rd gear at 1,000 miles. That was the end of the Subie for him. So apparently there is a difference between JDM and USDM 5 speeds. Probably all the STi 6 speeds are the same. :huh:

[BADDASSC6]

Wagonsleeps. I said peace in my last post. So lets drop the "open a new :censored:".

Also, I will be at Buttonwillow at the end of June with NASA proracing. I would love to run your buddy. I will point out that "my buddies car" is even lamer than bench racing. But his car makes pretty much what my car makes so lets do something:bigthumbsup:. I would love to talk about my friends cars, but I already smoked that 500+ hp 2003 Porsche Turbo). So I will continue to refernce my own car. I will try to be at the June 13th motorgen cruise too.

So if you read nothing else read this:

You are leaving a lot of power on the table in your intake. I felt like I wasted my time typing my previous post.

Finally, I am sorry I said your car is shit (mark this day on your calendars I have apoligized for making fun of someone's car:eek:). My college roomate had a 2 door impreza that I loved. That car left a long time ago and was replaced with an STI. I actually like them (EVOs are better:motorsmile:)

[BADDASSC6]

http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/images/usdm_sti_intake_short.jpgI would recommend the following mods:

magnus makes a sheetmetal intake manifold for the subaru WRX and STI. That will be money well spent. The plenum is much much larger in volume. The runners are shorter and wider.:drink:

After that I would try ordering a ported set of heads. Your heads have a lip on one edge of the intake valve to promote turbulence and better fuel mixing. This helps with torque and emissions. If you are not happy with the manifold try this out.

This is all power that can be had with out increasing the boost and minimizing the added strain on the motor. Frankly, I believe in building up hte base airpump before killing it with a bigger turbo.:thumbs_up:

[Vettezuki]

http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/images/usdm_sti_intake_short.jpgI would recommend the following mods:

magnus makes a sheetmetal intake manifold for the subaru WRX and STI. That will be money well spent. The plenum is much much larger in volume. The runners are shorter and wider.:drink: . . .

You read my mind. I thought there must have been some kind of aftermarket intake. That looks like a helluva stout piece too. I'm a little surprised there aren't aftermarket heads a la A.F.R.

[BADDASSC6]

You can buy aftermarket heads that are stock cast heads workedover, but no completely new castings.

I personnally don't know of any aftermarket head manufacturer import or domestic that make aftermarket cast heads for cam in head motors????

Has anyone else heard of any?

[SeanPlunk]

You can buy aftermarket heads that are stock cast heads workedover, but no completely new castings.

I personnally don't know of any aftermarket head manufacturer import or domestic that make aftermarket cast heads for cam in head motors????

Has anyone else heard of any?

The SOHC Mustangs have aftermarket castings available. Here is an example. (http://blogs.mustangmonthly.com/6502970/ford-news/trick-flow-twisted-wedge-heads-for-46l-54l-sohc/index.html)

[WagonSleeps]

^^stout piece indeed, I agree with everything said above, had a recent slip up today and pending more power or even possibly parting out and trading in the car...hate to do it but.


As far as built heads and intake manifolds....Cosworth, Crawford are 2 popular manufactures that provide these mods :)

expect to pay $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/Getliftedgully/Subaru_STIINTAKEMANIFOLD.jpg
he Cosworth Subaru High Volume Inlet Manifold is cast from aluminum featuring large tapered runners with radiused inlets for improved air flow. Plenum volume has been substantially increased and tuned for power. Engineered for easy installation and is the key to making big power.

Cosworth intake manifold flows an average of 478.5 CFM per runner and the stock manifold flows an average of 421.25 CFM per runner. That is about a 13.5% increase over stock. These numbers were measured at 50 inH2O on our flow bench (some people use 28 inches to measure, but 50 inch is a motorsport standard.

The Cosworth manifold made 12-15 hp above 6000 rpm with no sacrifices in response or low end torque on a stock 300hp engine. Same boost level.
As boost levels are increased over stock levels, the power gains compared to the stock manifold will be even higher
■■ Substantially increased plenum volume
■■ Large, tapered runners with radiused inlets
■■ Tuned plenum volume and runner length/taper
■■ Over 10% increase in flow
■■ Integral vacuum manifold for connection of brake booster, boost gauge, MAP sensor, boost controller, etc.
■■ Will work with standard or forward mount throttle body configurations
■■ Stock throttle body location for compatibility with most aftermarket FMIC kits


I see lots of motor builds from other subaru owners who go Hybrid and tend to still use their 2.0 or 2.5 stock heads :( reason being for less power....

Built heads, around 4200-5k....

[SeanPlunk]

^^stout piece indeed, I agree with everything said above, had a recent slip up today and pending more power or even possibly parting out and trading in the car...hate to do it but.


As far as built heads and intake manifolds....Cosworth, Crawford are 2 popular manufactures that provide these mods :)

expect to pay $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/Getliftedgully/Subaru_STIINTAKEMANIFOLD.jpg
he Cosworth Subaru High Volume Inlet Manifold is cast from aluminum featuring large tapered runners with radiused inlets for improved air flow. Plenum volume has been substantially increased and tuned for power. Engineered for easy installation and is the key to making big power.

Cosworth intake manifold flows an average of 478.5 CFM per runner and the stock manifold flows an average of 421.25 CFM per runner. That is about a 13.5% increase over stock. These numbers were measured at 50 inH2O on our flow bench (some people use 28 inches to measure, but 50 inch is a motorsport standard.

The Cosworth manifold made 12-15 hp above 6000 rpm with no sacrifices in response or low end torque on a stock 300hp engine. Same boost level.
As boost levels are increased over stock levels, the power gains compared to the stock manifold will be even higher
■■ Substantially increased plenum volume
■■ Large, tapered runners with radiused inlets
■■ Tuned plenum volume and runner length/taper
■■ Over 10% increase in flow
■■ Integral vacuum manifold for connection of brake booster, boost gauge, MAP sensor, boost controller, etc.
■■ Will work with standard or forward mount throttle body configurations
■■ Stock throttle body location for compatibility with most aftermarket FMIC kits


I see lots of motor builds from other subaru owners who go Hybrid and tend to still use their 2.0 or 2.5 stock heads :( reason being for less power....

Built heads, around 4200-5k....

WOW, those intakes are trick. What happened with your car? After everything you've done to it you can't give up now :(

Oh, and 4200-5k for built heads :surrender:

[Vettezuki]

^^stout piece indeed, I agree with everything said above, had a recent slip up today and pending more power or even possibly parting out and trading in the car...hate to do it but.


As far as built heads and intake manifolds....Cosworth, Crawford are 2 popular manufactures that provide these mods :)

expect to pay $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/Getliftedgully/Subaru_STIINTAKEMANIFOLD.jpg
he Cosworth Subaru High Volume Inlet Manifold is cast from aluminum featuring large tapered runners with radiused inlets for improved air flow. Plenum volume has been substantially increased and tuned for power. Engineered for easy installation and is the key to making big power.

Cosworth intake manifold flows an average of 478.5 CFM per runner and the stock manifold flows an average of 421.25 CFM per runner. That is about a 13.5% increase over stock. These numbers were measured at 50 inH2O on our flow bench (some people use 28 inches to measure, but 50 inch is a motorsport standard.

The Cosworth manifold made 12-15 hp above 6000 rpm with no sacrifices in response or low end torque on a stock 300hp engine. Same boost level.
As boost levels are increased over stock levels, the power gains compared to the stock manifold will be even higher
■■ Substantially increased plenum volume
■■ Large, tapered runners with radiused inlets
■■ Tuned plenum volume and runner length/taper
■■ Over 10% increase in flow
■■ Integral vacuum manifold for connection of brake booster, boost gauge, MAP sensor, boost controller, etc.
■■ Will work with standard or forward mount throttle body configurations
■■ Stock throttle body location for compatibility with most aftermarket FMIC kits


I see lots of motor builds from other subaru owners who go Hybrid and tend to still use their 2.0 or 2.5 stock heads :( reason being for less power....

Built heads, around 4200-5k....


Cosworth? As in the truly great, glorious, and magnificent British engineering firm and engine builders? This is OT, but they may be the engine suppliers for the new USF1 for next year.

Yes, you pay mad scratch for bits at this level.

Does anybody put 2L STi heads on your block, assuming smaller combustion chambers and slightly higher comp? Common trick on NA LS motors, probably doesn't make a lot of sense on these Boxer motors; just curious.

[Leedom]

Glad to see this thread has finally calmed down. I thought I was going to have to give you guys a timeout!!

http://babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/2008/07/timeout.jpg

[Vettezuki]

Glad to see this thread has finally calmed down. I thought I was going to have to give you guys a timeout!!

http://babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/2008/07/timeout.jpg

FAHQ Hippie. My Vette owns all Mustangs! Especially Yellow Mach 1s! Ha!

Just kidding. Somewhere in a photo album is a picture of me when I was about 3/4 . . . chill'n with a can of Bud and a full Jew Fro. Priceless.

[WagonSleeps]

^^ Yep Cosworth it is my friend!


They have been IMO and many others as well. They treat us well with quality stuff. The shops actually waiting on one of the 1st Longblocks for the STi thats being swapped into an 08 sti :bigthumbsup:. Cosworth has shown us nothing but good things.

As far as i know or heard, i havent seen too many 2.5L putting STi heads onto our WRX. Plus to be honest, certain years and the way people mod their wrx's and sti's. have a tendency to run low compression checks. Thats the reason being tunes on our cars are so crucial. Too many stories about engines going cause of cars running too lean from not being tuned etc, long story short F'in your car up. hahaha.

Heres how the STi / WRX models went year by year.

02-05 WRX NON STi's came with 2.0 liter turbos.

04-06 STi came with 2.5 liter turbos using vf39 turbos with 560cc STi pinks. (06 years got the 565 blues like the 06-07 wrx and sti's did)

06-08 WRX non sti came with TD04 turbo(tiny tiny turbo, yes more tiny that the STi ) with 565cc blues. And the 08's and up got the LGT 5 speeds included, finally did something about the 5 speed issues.

07 STi came with new VF43 (basically same as vf39) as well as 565cc blue injectors.

08 STi has a tad bit bigger VF48 turbo using the same 565cc injectors.

09 WRX comes with a new vf52 turbo with 565cc injectors as well if im correct.

All the VF series turbo push around the same whp using full turboback, fuel pump and tune.

As far as horsepower gains, it seems as if the 06-07 wrx's gain abit more torque than sti's do. possibly from the 5 speed ratios compared to the 6th. My dyno sheet is damn near similar or exact to what youll see on a sti since we have identical 2.5 liter engines. As far as using STi parts, might as well go aftermarket. Equal length headers, Up-pipe, Intake manifolds, and headwork, all good things to gain some ponies yet a pretty penny.

[WagonSleeps]

WOW, those intakes are trick. What happened with your car? After everything you've done to it you can't give up now :(

Oh, and 4200-5k for built heads :surrender:

hahaha yep, they are damn expensive from Cosworth. Reason being why i dont see too many of them installed on many cars ive seen. I think people rather just do the TGV deletes Turbo upgrade and call it a day. But for serious power, and better flow, looks like a good piece.


my car....

Got off work, went to the shop, talked for alittle. As im leaving i gunned it in 2nd and little in 3rd, slow down. boom check engine light:rant:

Pull out my cobb AP which has a option to read codes on the fly as im driving :)


Cylinder 2 misfire. My turbo inlet hose had slipped off meaning my turbo was taking in air that was not being metered by the MAF....probably running super lean which is a horror story on our cars as to many others.

Next day get to the shop, fixed the hose, and ive been driving it for a while and it hasnt been running the same. Still runs with decent power and boost is up to par and nothing seems too off. but i have rougher idle than usual and it seems as if i may have gotten myself a bad ringland....

Tomorrow, or today rather, i will be going in for a compression test, and inspect more on why my car may be doing this.

[Vettezuki]

hahaha yep, they are damn expensive from Cosworth. Reason being why i dont see too many of them installed on many cars ive seen. I think people rather just do the TGV deletes Turbo upgrade and call it a day. But for serious power, and better flow, looks like a good piece.


my car....

Got off work, went to the shop, talked for alittle. As im leaving i gunned it in 2nd and little in 3rd, slow down. boom check engine light:rant:

Pull out my cobb AP which has a option to read codes on the fly as im driving :)


Cylinder 2 misfire. My turbo inlet hose had slipped off meaning my turbo was taking in air that was not being metered by the MAF....probably running super lean which is a horror story on our cars as to many others.

Next day get to the shop, fixed the hose, and ive been driving it for a while and it hasnt been running the same. Still runs with decent power and boost is up to par and nothing seems too off. but i have rougher idle than usual and it seems as if i may have gotten myself a bad ringland....

Tomorrow, or today rather, i will be going in for a compression test, and inspect more on why my car may be doing this.


Yikes!

I have no idea about turbo 4s, but it's pretty common on boosted LS series (at least) applications for guys to do Speed Density tunes and ditch the MAF altogether. I don't know that much about it, but from what I understand it uses formulas relating to volumetric efficiency and measured manifold pressure, temp, etc.. Bottom line, there is no MAF and therefore, no MAF related failure to worry about. They cost more and the tuner had better know what he's doing. A MAF tune is much easier to do and therefore it's what most people go with. Anyway, maybe just something to research for the future.

[WagonSleeps]

Yikes!

I have no idea about turbo 4s, but it's pretty common on boosted LS series (at least) applications for guys to do Speed Density tunes and ditch the MAF altogether. I don't know that much about it, but from what I understand it uses formulas relating to volumetric efficiency and measured manifold pressure, temp, etc.. Bottom line, there is no MAF and therefore, no MAF related failure to worry about. They cost more and the tuner had better know what he's doing. A MAF tune is much easier to do and therefore it's what most people go with. Anyway, maybe just something to research for the future.

Speed density isnt out for our cars yet. soon we will be able to ditch the MAF haha.

So, today was the moment of truth. 3 cylinders except for 1 blew a 143+ psi. the 1 cylinder blew 94......:suicide:. The turbo inlet sucking unmetered air through the turbo, Literally sucking air right into the turbo using no intake, inlet , nada. it had slipped off while doing a mild pull. Possibly ran so lean and kabooom.... Time to look into a Cosworth shortblock..

[SeanPlunk]

Speed density isnt out for our cars yet. soon we will be able to ditch the MAF haha.

So, today was the moment of truth. 3 cylinders except for 1 blew a 143+ psi. the 1 cylinder blew 94......:suicide:. The turbo inlet sucking unmetered air through the turbo, Literally sucking air right into the turbo using no intake, inlet , nada. it had slipped off while doing a mild pull. Possibly ran so lean and kabooom.... Time to look into a Cosworth shortblock..

:suicide:

I'm so sorry to hear that - that sucks a lot.

Having said that, it'll be awesome to see what you do with a new motor :thumbs_up:

Do you have any goals in mind? Maybe 400whp on 91 octane and 450whp with meth?

[WagonSleeps]

:suicide:

I'm so sorry to hear that - that sucks a lot.

Having said that, it'll be awesome to see what you do with a new motor :thumbs_up:

Do you have any goals in mind? Maybe 400whp on 91 octane and 450whp with meth?


REALLY RANDOM AND I TRULY LOVED MY WAGON.



I traded my car in :confused: i dont know why..but the situation was bad and i hate to get a new car and the 4-5 k it woudlve cost to rebuild...would been a horror story since i only have 1 car....

So....after all this, 2008 Evo X Apex Silver.....

[Vettezuki]

REALLY RANDOM AND I TRULY LOVED MY WAGON.



I traded my car in :confused: i dont know why..but the situation was bad and i hate to get a new car and the 4-5 k it woudlve cost to rebuild...would been a horror story since i only have 1 car....

So....after all this, 2008 Evo X Apex Silver.....

Sorry to hear about your trouble but the Evo Xs are wicked bad. I'm sure you'll get what you want out of it. :thumbs_up:

[SeanPlunk]

REALLY RANDOM AND I TRULY LOVED MY WAGON.



I traded my car in :confused: i dont know why..but the situation was bad and i hate to get a new car and the 4-5 k it woudlve cost to rebuild...would been a horror story since i only have 1 car....

So....after all this, 2008 Evo X Apex Silver.....

Congrats on the new car! Where are pics of the Evo though :rant:















:D

[SeanPlunk]

Oh, and you should definitely break the Evo in by going up Angeles Crest with us :thumbs_up:

[BADDASSC6]

There is a silver lining to this cloud. The Evo X is a great car. It's One of the few new cars that I consider a competent track car.
:drink:

Bring the EVO cruise.

[WagonSleeps]

There is a silver lining to this cloud. The Evo X is a great car. It's One of the few new cars that I consider a competent track car.
:drink:

Bring the EVO cruise.


:) break in is almost finished! ive been scrambling around to get things handled. Pics will be up shortly! and love to go on the cruise :)

[Vettezuki]

:) break in is almost finished! ive been scrambling around to get things handled. Pics will be up shortly! and love to go on the cruise :)

Be glad to have you brother. The Evo is gonna love Hwy. 2. :bigthumbsup:

[WagonSleeps]

Be glad to have you brother. The Evo is gonna love Hwy. 2. :bigthumbsup:

I have test driven my friends evos before i had gotten my own :motorsmile:

Big difference of comfort and ease of driving spiritedly. Now i know what you mean when Top Gear reviewed this car and said a 16 y/o can drive this car and not mess up using the AYC and whatnot.

Subaru whole different story, When in Doubt...FLOOOR it. it will break loose since it has no type of AYC and i had my diff fully OPEN.. so everytime the twisties came, i relied on throttle to gain control again.


In conclusion, the New EVOX is far more comfortable, easy to drive, doesnt hurt my back from long period of time (recaros ftw).

[SeanPlunk]

I have test driven my friends evos before i had gotten my own :motorsmile:

Big difference of comfort and ease of driving spiritedly. Now i know what you mean when Top Gear reviewed this car and said a 16 y/o can drive this car and not mess up using the AYC and whatnot.

Subaru whole different story, When in Doubt...FLOOOR it. it will break loose since it has no type of AYC and i had my diff fully OPEN.. so everytime the twisties came, i relied on throttle to gain control again.


In conclusion, the New EVOX is far more comfortable, easy to drive, doesnt hurt my back from long period of time (recaros ftw).

They are awesome cars. Truth be told I love the Evo and the Sti, but given the choice i would actually buy an Evo.

Oh, and where are the pics :nutkick:

[WagonSleeps]

They are awesome cars. Truth be told I love the Evo and the Sti, but given the choice i would actually buy an Evo.

Oh, and where are the pics :nutkick:



Exactly, given the choice between the 08sti and evox....EVOX. Knowing that the 08's have problems and even more sensitive motors than previous years and handling is incomparable.

only pic i can shoot with right now is my camera on my phone :( but once i have my good friend with the goooood camera, ill be sure to take some and post. Hell, he might come with us to the meet and take pics of everyones car!

[WagonSleeps]

Hi guys! resurrecting this thread! haha.

alittle update, i traded in my good ol wagon. Got my self a evo X.

So far with 8k on the car with some lowering springs and a tune(no physical mods), i am loving this car. I keep reminding myself that i need to come to the meets and hang with you guys more often. Hbspeed tuned my evo x stock, and this is what it got :)

I am amazed on how well this car handles, with the summer tires, ayc and all.

http://hbspeed.com/dyno/graph.php?gb=0&hp=1&torque=1&afr=1&runid1=132&rgb1=000000255

whens the next socal meet! another cruise coming?

[Vettezuki]

Hi guys! resurrecting this thread! haha.

alittle update, i traded in my good ol wagon. Got my self a evo X.

So far with 8k on the car with some lowering springs and a tune(no physical mods), i am loving this car. I keep reminding myself that i need to come to the meets and hang with you guys more often. Hbspeed tuned my evo x stock, and this is what it got :)

I am amazed on how well this car handles, with the summer tires, ayc and all.

http://hbspeed.com/dyno/graph.php?gb=0&hp=1&torque=1&afr=1&runid1=132&rgb1=000000255

whens the next socal meet! another cruise coming?


Word. October 10 is the next meet. We should at least do a local cruise eh.

[BADDASSC6]

EVOs are just plain fast. Good choice:thumbs_up:.

[BRIAN]

I learned a lot from this thread :)

[SeanPlunk]

Hi guys! resurrecting this thread! haha.

alittle update, i traded in my good ol wagon. Got my self a evo X.

So far with 8k on the car with some lowering springs and a tune(no physical mods), i am loving this car. I keep reminding myself that i need to come to the meets and hang with you guys more often. Hbspeed tuned my evo x stock, and this is what it got :)

I am amazed on how well this car handles, with the summer tires, ayc and all.

http://hbspeed.com/dyno/graph.php?gb=0&hp=1&torque=1&afr=1&runid1=132&rgb1=000000255

whens the next socal meet! another cruise coming?

Welcome back - long time, no see. Congrats on the car - glad to hear it's treating you well. I'm really impressed with the numbers the Evo X spits out with tuning and minor boltons. What's next on the mod list?

[enkeivette]

...i relied on throttle to gain control again.

Gotta love awd.

[WagonSleeps]

Gotta love awd.

yea awd with no traction control or AYC, but using your throttle, center and rear diff was pretty interesting and learned alot. The car would need to be driven, not the car driving you.


It really seems like when traction is broken in the evo x, AYC kicks in and i dont need to do a damn thing to correct. its almost pretty hard to come in hot, and when you think you are, ayc and throttle pulls you right out.

handling characteristics? Lets just say i spent so much money on chassis stiffening and anti sway bars to get my car as rigid as possible, including subframe bushings, and other polyurethane bushings all underneath on the wagon. The evo x on the other hand, is rigid, chassis flex? hardly any, if Non that can be felt. Comes with a X brace in the rear, guess that means no strut bar needed, strut bar is the frame of the car. Eibach springs is all i feel that is needed for suspension upgrades on this car. Coming soon, UICP, catback with a test pipe and a tune. Then ill leave as is, unless im lying to myself.

Eventhough there are so many upsides to the new evo x. Im really sad my wagon isnt with me now. dont know what it is, just miss the hell out of her.