Toluelene octane boost

[Japhy]

Long story short, what I thought was the beginning of the end for my 95" harley motor w/high compression pistons (9:1) turned out to be a couple of gas stations up here putting 87 octane in the 90 octane tanks (I suspect). I finally narrowed it down when I noticed that it only ran rough, sounded crappy, lacked power when I filled up at these stations:bang:. so tonight I filled it up again at said pump but added some octane booster and she ran like a striped assed ape again. Before you suggest just filling up at a different station, you need to understand that up in the Great White North there isn't a gas station every 5 miles. So, I hear some fellas run a toluelene mix to boost octane cheaper than the commercial products. Anyone have any experience with this? What ratios etc? Thanks, Japhy

[Vettezuki]

Long story short, what I thought was the beginning of the end for my 95" harley motor w/high compression pistons (9:1) turned out to be a couple of gas stations up here putting 87 octane in the 90 octane tanks (I suspect). I finally narrowed it down when I noticed that it only ran rough, sounded crappy, lacked power when I filled up at these stations:bang:. so tonight I filled it up again at said pump but added some octane booster and she ran like a striped assed ape again. Before you suggest just filling up at a different station, you need to understand that up in the Great White North there isn't a gas station every 5 miles. So, I hear some fellas run a toluelene mix to boost octane cheaper than the commercial products. Anyone have any experience with this? What ratios etc? Thanks, Japhy


First. 9:1 is high compression on a Harley? That's boostable low compression on pump gas for a car.

Yes. Toluene works. It is about 114 Octane. You can "roughly" calculate your target octane as a simple average. I have a high compression Heads and Cam LSx motor in Vette (about 11.1:1 static). This fairy juice 91 we've got in CA don't quite cut it. After experimenting, I found that 6 quarts Toluene to 15 gallons Nancy-Pants 91 got me to knock-free Nirvana.

Some notes on Toluene
It's kinda fun to play with, especially if you're going for that "I have a meth lab in my garage vibe." It is ridiculously caustic, destroying plastics with minimal contact, and oh yeah, it causes cancer if you breathe in very much. Nevertheless, an effective octane booster. In fact, it's a key component of what refineries use to boost octane for different blends. Here in the people's republic of CA it is fairly expensive and only available from large paint stores (it's a specialty thinner) and chemical supply vendors. It might be rather cheaper up there.

But let me introduce you to my new friend.
Torco Mach Accelerator (http://torcoracefuels.com/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage_1/product_id,86/category_id,15/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,32/) - Race Fuel Concentrate
It's a black box. Nobody knows how it works and it's a closely guarded trade secret. I can tell you this empiraclly. What took 6 quarts of Toluene, only takes 1 quart of Torco. Buy 5 gal cans (not cheap) to substantially lower your volume cost. You should be able to find a local distributor who will be cheaper than Torco direct though. Depending on how much you ride, it should last quite a while though. (I use 1 quart with 15 gallons of 91 to get to about 93).

[enkeivette]

Yeah, 9:1 is low compression for a v twin as far as I know. My friends Night Rod runs 12.5:1 from the factory (If I remember correctly).

I bought my friend Mike a 5 gallon drum of Toulene for his B-Day. It was expensive at around $65. But you can't just add the toulene to your gas tank, it needs to be mixed with a few other things like ATF.

But I doubt that low octane is your problem. My first guess would be that using sh*tty gas clogged up your carb. Arco will cause the main jet to get clogged up with calcium deposits. And the octane booster (which is also used as a fuel injector cleaner) cleaned out your carb. Next time it runs rough, pull the bowl off your carb and brake clean the crap out of it, especially the main jet. See if it makes a difference.

[Vettezuki]

. . .
But you can't just add the toulene to your gas tank, it needs to be mixed with a few other things like ATF.. . .

Poppycock. Toluene is an aromatic hydrocarbon that mixes just peachy with gasoline directly. I know . . . I've done it. It's not like nitro methane, which does NOT mix with gas (nitro propane does . . . not recommended though:smack:) Toluene does have a different viscosity though. So in particularly cold climates, you really don't want go beyond 10-15% as it will cause the gas to become almost syrrupy. Maybe that's what you're thinking of. Carbed applications might plausibly require some other component to bring the viscosity of the Toluene mixture down to the same level of gas. Probably not such an issue for Fuel Injection.

As for you comments on likely causes of trouble, I agree.

[Japhy]

Allright, it was late. I took my best guess @ comp. ratio and didn't want to exagerate. I'll have to look it up when I get home. Also, bike is fuel injected. And you're right, could just be really crappy 90 octane that just don't burn right without help. Honest to Pete, I can damn near see the oil fields from here (that's a little exagerated) and I'm stuck with friggin third-world gas- for 4.50 a gallon:barf:
Thanks for the info guys! -Japhy

[Vettezuki]

Allright, it was late. I took my best guess @ comp. ratio and didn't want to exagerate. I'll have to look it up when I get home. Also, bike is fuel injected. And you're right, could just be really crappy 90 octane that just don't burn right without help. Honest to Pete, I can damn near see the oil fields from here (that's a little exagerated) and I'm stuck with friggin third-world gas- for 4.50 a gallon:barf:
Thanks for the info guys! -Japhy


Word. Probably just got a bad batch with a bunch of water in it. Stock motor should be just peachy on "good" 90. Is 90 the highest you guys got. I thought we were bad with 91. (Of course we've got practically monthly blends, summer being the worst - super oxygenated.)

PS Wilbur could use some pics yo. :)

[bgn8711]

Ben,
Couple of questions. One does Torco eat plastic as well? 2ndly how much is it for 5 gallons? I'm just curious as I'm paying $60 for 5 gallons of methanol...car runs like a rapped ape with it though. 21* of boost 26* of timings in 1 & 2 and 24* om 3rd. Leaned it out quite a bit too. Anyway just wanted to plug my car haha but I was wondering if torco would work in my alky kit. More out of curiousity than anything...
Brian

[Vettezuki]

Ben,
Couple of questions. One does Torco eat plastic as well? 2ndly how much is it for 5 gallons? I'm just curious as I'm paying $60 for 5 gallons of methanol...car runs like a rapped ape with it though. 21* of boost 26* of timings in 1 & 2 and 24* om 3rd. Leaned it out quite a bit too. Anyway just wanted to plug my car haha but I was wondering if torco would work in my alky kit. More out of curiousity than anything...
Brian

Torco does not eat plastic.

Your best local (SoCal) source is Joel Feingold, who can arrange a drop ship of 5 gal can cheaper than you can get it anywhere else:
http://www.jbsblownc5.net/html/torco.html#5gal

It'll be $229 for 5 gals. HOWEVER, you don't need much. For me this is more than 20 tanks of gas (bumped from 91 to 93~) or more than 6,000 miles . . a bit more than a year's driving. I have plenty if you want to test a tank or two. It does not alter the BTU factor of your gas so you don't have to reprogram fueling rates.

How much boost can you add per octane? The methanol has one significant advantage and that is the cooling effects on the air charge. Have you considered 50gal drum from an industrial chemical supplier? Obviously this won't be cheap, but per volume cost will be lower. You would have the added complexity of proper storage. Alcohol is VERY hydroscopic.

Basically it comes down to the most cost effective way to safely boost. Break out Excel . . .

Let me know if you want to try some. Also, do think you might actually take that thing to the track? Once I get my DRs broke in a little more and figure out what kind of launch will be tolerated, I think I should be able to consistently hit 12.5 @111 at Fontana, maybe a bit quicker under perfect conditions.

[bgn8711]

Ben,
First off congrats on breaking into the 12's, quite a feat for Fontana. There is still so much being left on the table in the short game that car has a ton left in it.

As for as the torco and boost, $230 :eek:! I go through alcohol much too fast, and to be honest I have this turbo at it's max efficiency already with the alky and a lot of timing too with no knock. However when I do get a bigger turbo I may take you up one track day and try to up the boost a little bit. There is no for 1 octane you pick up 1 lb of boost unfortunately so I don't know what the car would do.

Lastly I would love to store a 55 gal. drum but it would last me the lifetime of the car I think! And I've heard it can go bad pretty easily I'm worried about my 5 gallon drum going bad but It does seal back up and I'll probably go through it in a month and a half or so. I will be at the track with my awesome 215 street tires but I want to see what the car will mile an hour. You better be racing B, you wanna car pool?

Brian
PS I want to start making plans to do the first motorgen cruise up the 101 or something we have a great group and variety of cars. I want to All head out to a restaurant or something I think it'd be a blast!

[Vettezuki]

. . . You better be racing B, you wanna car pool?

How do two people car pool in two separate cars? :huh: Sounds like my kind of car pool though. :smack:

Brian
PS I want to start making plans to do the first motorgen cruise up the 101 or something we have a great group and variety of cars. I want to All head out to a restaurant or something I think it'd be a blast!

Me too. I was thinking of Angeles Crest Highway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angeles_Crest_Highway) though. It's not too far to get on, has been recently repaved, awesome twisties and scenic mountain views. Whattaya think?

[bgn8711]

whoops I meant caravan :bang:. Dick you so knew what I meant. That sounds awesome in regards to the Angeles Crest Highway run, Lets start planning that I really want to get out and go horse around. We'll see how my car does on them windy turns....haha. I found out I do have heavy duys springs in the front and KYB's all around so mine actually handles a little better than most....which isn't saying much.

Brian

[enkeivette]

whoops I meant caravan :bang:. Dick you so knew what I meant. That sounds awesome in regards to the Angeles Crest Highway run, Lets start planning that I really want to get out and go horse around. We'll see how my car does on them windy turns....haha. I found out I do have heavy duys springs in the front and KYB's all around so mine actually handles a little better than most....which isn't saying much.

Brian

http://www.jrpracingunlimited.com/images/car_before.jpg :nutkick:


But in Brian's defense, KYBs make AMAZING paper weights.

[enkeivette]

Are you going to just let me lay the smack down on you like that Brian? :smack:

[Japhy]

Hey fellas, been busy awhile. I'm eatin' crow on that gas theory I had. Turns out my Power Commander took a dump. Finally got to bypassing it and using my stock ecm and it ran a lot better. Just to damn lean as my exhaust has no O2 sensors and the ecm is calibrated for a stock bike (hence the need for the programable tuner). So I uploaded a new MAP an' Wilbur'n me are friends again. Also, comp. ratio is 9.5:1 -you're right, should be good on 91 octane. And as it turns out, it is. Stay cool, Japhy

[enkeivette]

:thumbs_up:Hey fellas, been busy awhile. I'm eatin' crow on that gas theory I had. Turns out my Power Commander took a dump. Finally got to bypassing it and using my stock ecm and it ran a lot better. Just to damn lean as my exhaust has no O2 sensors and the ecm is calibrated for a stock bike (hence the need for the programable tuner). So I uploaded a new MAP an' Wilbur'n me are friends again. Also, comp. ratio is 9.5:1 -you're right, should be good on 91 octane. And as it turns out, it is. Stay cool, Japhy

O I C, thought it was a carbed bike. Whatever the cause, it was too lean. Glad to hear it's running better now. :thumbs_up: