Solid Suspension Bushings?

[enkeivette]

Why not run solid needle bearing suspension bushings? As opposed to rubber or urethane. From a racing perspective, not comfort.

[Vettezuki]

Why not run solid needle bearing suspension bushings? As opposed to rubber or urethane. From a racing perspective, not comfort.


Mmm, pliable bushings add to suspension compliance. This can manifest as unpredictable weight transfers (bad) or bits and pieces NOT breaking because there's a little give (good). As far as I know, most street car based race cars use metal spherical bushings as much as a possible and essentially no rubber.

I'm running solid trailing arm bushings in the Vette (stock is rubber) and the difference in how the rear-end feels under harder cornering is noticable, however, the comfort is not that comprised. Obviously metal must be VERY thoroughly lubed it won't last long at all.

There, how's that for not answering your question?

[enkeivette]

If u joints can stay lubed up and functioning properly for 30 years at the RPM that they see, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem for suspension. Although, the needle bearings would have to be a lot thicker to handle the weight.

I keep accidentally hitting Edit on the last post instead of Reply. :o

[Vettezuki]

If u joints can stay lubed up and functioning properly for 30 years at the RPM that they see, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem for suspension. Although, the needle bearings would have to be a lot thicker to handle the weight.

Remember the bushings are rotating metal against metal. U-Joints are for connecting driveline components at different angles, there's not much "grinding" is there? My TA bushing is spherical metal against metal; the bushing rotates in the the stationary sleeve. No lube es no bueno.


I keep accidentally hitting Edit on the last post instead of Reply. :o

Don't do that. :smack:

[enkeivette]

Guess I won't be making any trips to the patent office.

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/900/921/921-20078.jpg

[big2bird]

Why not run solid needle bearing suspension bushings? As opposed to rubber or urethane. From a racing perspective, not comfort.

You would encounter brinelling. U-joints have a back and forth motion that keeps them lubed.
Herb Adams used to make Delrin susp. bushings, then when he died, his son did for awhile.
The problems with poly is the action. Pressed in bubber bushings actually torque, or twist. When you install poly, they move rotationally, introducing wear on a shaft point not designed for that action.
IF your setting up for full race only, solid bushings, heim joints, Johnny Joints and the such would be ideal. If your going to drive it on the street, with alot of maintenence, it would be fine. DD? No way.

[94cobra69ss396]

A lot of the offroad racing trucks use heims because rubber or poly just doesn't last. Our buddy use to race a class 8 F150 and he used poly bushing in the trailing arms. We had to replace them during the race because half way through they would already be worn out or missing.

[TimAT]

One of the problems with Poly in the front control arms- they like to work the bolts out and disappear. I put all poly in Ol' Red, but the front ones I cut grooves in the ID and then drilled them and installed zerks so I could lube them if I needed to. Then used loctite on all the bolts. So far, so good.

[big2bird]

A lot of the offroad racing trucks use heims because rubber or poly just doesn't last. Our buddy use to race a class 8 F150 and he used poly bushing in the trailing arms. We had to replace them during the race because half way through they would already be worn out or missing.

Poly, like rubber, is available in different grades of hardness./commpliance.

[94cobra69ss396]

Poly, like rubber, is available in different grades of hardness./commpliance.

These were on the radias arms and it was the front ones that always went bad. But you also you to realize this was a truck with a 600hp big block that was doing 40-120 across the desert and spending a lot of time in the air. The front bushings in the radias arms took a pounding. Even trucks that run heim joints have to replace them often because of the stress that they endure.

[Vettezuki]

These were on the radias arms and it was the front ones that always went bad. But you also you to realize this was a truck with a 600hp big block that was doing 40-120 across the desert and spending a lot of time in the air. The front bushings in the radias arms took a pounding. Even trucks that run heim joints have to replace them often because of the stress that they endure.

It's not the in the air part that's a problem, its the coming down part that can be a real bitch on the suspension. :rolling: I'm amazed at the pounding those unlimited trucks take at Baja.

[big2bird]

It's not the in the air part that's a problem, its the coming down part that can be a real bitch on the suspension. :rolling: I'm amazed at the pounding those unlimited trucks take at Baja.

:smack::smack::smack:

[big2bird]

These were on the radias arms and it was the front ones that always went bad. But you also you to realize this was a truck with a 600hp big block that was doing 40-120 across the desert and spending a lot of time in the air. The front bushings in the radias arms took a pounding. Even trucks that run heim joints have to replace them often because of the stress that they endure.

I hear ya. I did the Jeep/Dune buggy thing 30 years ago. Too old now.:thumbs_up:

[BRUTAL64]

I hear ya. I did the Jeep/Dune buggy thing 30 years ago. Too old now.:thumbs_up:

If you're too old, then what does that make me??:censored:




Ok, I know it's coming.I'm ready:rolling:

[94cobra69ss396]

I hear ya. I did the Jeep/Dune buggy thing 30 years ago. Too old now.:thumbs_up:

You're never too old. Look at Ivan "Ironman" Stewart.

[big2bird]

If you're too old, then what does that make me??:censored:




Ok, I know it's coming.I'm ready:rolling:

OLDER:nutkick::nutkick::nutkick:

[BRUTAL64]

OLDER:nutkick::nutkick::nutkick:

But not TOO OLD.:drink:

[big2bird]

:drink::drink::drink::drink:

[Leedom]

The problem with solid bushings or needbearing style bushing for suspension components is the binding problems. not many suspension components move just up and down, back and forth. They need to be flexible. For the lower control arm on my mustang if I used solid bushings then the control arms would bind and damage the torque boxes and control arm. Heims are great for strength and have a great range of motion. When dealing with off-road trucks that have as much as 15 to 20" of front travel and 25 to 36" of rear travel, you need move "flexible" joints to keep the suspension from binding.

[big2bird]

The problem with solid bushings or needbearing style bushing for suspension components is the binding problems. not many suspension components move just up and down, back and forth. They need to be flexible. For the lower control arm on my mustang if I used solid bushings then the control arms would bind and damage the torque boxes and control arm. Heims are great for strength and have a great range of motion. When dealing with off-road trucks that have as much as 15 to 20" of front travel and 25 to 36" of rear travel, you need move "flexible" joints to keep the suspension from binding.

http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/johnnyjoints.aspx