E85...

[2011GT302]

Is anyone running E85? What are the pros and cons?
Thanks for any and all answers.

[Vettezuki]

Is anyone running E85? What are the pros and cons?
Thanks for any and all answers.

st-evo-9*corn fed-8urvet runs or at least ran it in his Evo.

You can see his Evo here from about 5:25
Motorgen - Videos - Socalevo Meet 21@@AMEPARAM@@value="file=/vid/data/529/SoCal_EvfoAtTuning_Technologies.flv&@@AMEPARAM@@529@@AMEPARAM@@SoCal_EvfoAtTuning_Tech nologies.flv

[Shaolin Crane]

Its nasty shit, highly corrosive, getting more expensive daily and harder to find.

[2011GT302]

So your saying I would not gain anything by going to E85?

[blackax]

So your saying I would not gain anything by going to E85?

Its good if you have a FI car so you can turn the boost up higher because of the higher octane, but because it is so hard to find it means you need a way to reset your tune if you are just gonna run 91.

If you have a Fi car just run meth. It is very simple and easy to use.

[Vettezuki]

Its good if you have a FI car so you can turn the boost up higher because of the higher octane, but because it is so hard to find it means you need a way to reset your tune if you are just gonna run 91.

If you have a Fi car just run meth. It is very simple and easy to use.

It's not just the higher octane, it's the cooling effects of alcohol as it evaporates. E85 is a spectacular fuel for FI. While alcohol has some corrosive effects, modern fuel systems are designed to take some alcohol (because any fuel can have up to 10% alcohol), so it isn't such a big deal in modern cars (old ones, different story). The largest issue other than a need for an E85 tune is availability. Distribution just isn't spreading CA.

I like E85 as a concept fine, but like many things it's economically retarded. Ethanol production fails the market test badly and requires major subsidization (you're paying for it from taxes), and because we're often extra dumb in the US we make it from a food crop which then drives up commodity prices around the world. :suicide:

[Shaolin Crane]

Its cheaper to just run your car on alcohol. About $1 a gallon, sounds much better to me.

[Vettezuki]

Its cheaper to just run your car on alcohol. About $1 a gallon, sounds much better to me.

Where do you get ethanol at $1/gal?

[Shaolin Crane]

Buy it by the barrel

[Vettezuki]

Buy it by the barrel

Where? Do you need a license? Technically you'd need a permit in almost any city to store than much of a flammable. Also, you'd have to take serious precautions with storing E100 as it is massively hydroscopic.

[Damian]

I loved E85, even when I was na in my Eclipse. You will need to tune for it, need a bigger fuel pump and possibly bigger injectors. MPGs do go down since you need about 30% more fuel than just gasoline. Maybe even try mixing 91 octane and E85?? Maybe try mid 90s octane first and see if you really want to go all the way to E85.

[Shaolin Crane]

Where? Do you need a license? Technically you'd need a permit in almost any city to store than much of a flammable. Also, you'd have to take serious precautions with storing E100 as it is massively hydroscopic.

Downs petrolium, or many other high volume fuel stations. I dont think a license is needed but you might to buy it without subsideary costs to get it for that cheap. It doesnt need to be stored out of direct sunlight to prevent lacquering. He have several gallons at our shop and our place isnt exactly the prime example of shop safety.

[2011GT302]

if you can get Eth for 1 a gallon then why is it 3.50 for E85.

[Shaolin Crane]

Subsidiaries and taxes

Diesel at the pump runs about $4 a gallon

Red diesel (non taxed) runs about $1 a gallon, same thing here.

[Damian]

Taxes alone are outrageous. You would think the state could operate just off off of those taxes alone.

[Ryridesmotox]

I run an Ethanol/91 mix when I want to go fast. It is good for about another 40lbs.ft of torque over straight 91 the way I have my car tuned. I also run about 5psi more boost when I am on my Ethanol tune. It's good stuff if you can find it. There are a few pro/cons though...

Pros:
Able to run more timing in the tune
Able to run alot richer since Alcohol based fuels carry oxygen molecules in the carbon chain and petroleum based fuels don't.
It has a high detergent effect on valves because of its alcohol base so it runs quite clean.
It is very boost friendly since it is considerably more knock resistant than 91 octane.

Cons-
Hydrophilic (attracts water) and is therefore probably not the best choice if the vehicle will not be running for any length of time as water may start to infiltrate the fuel
The alcohol tends to crack rubber so anything that isn't a hardline steel fuel line may fail in the future
You will get HORRIBLE fuel economy on it. I get 30% less in my car and I run E85/91 in a 50/50 ratio.
Good luck finding an E85 station. There are 3 in San Diego county, luckily 2 are by my house.
You will undoubtedly go through tires and brakes quicker because of the extra power. lol

Honestly though the real advantage is in a forced induction motor. Mine (as an example) can run 5 more psi of boost AND 10 more degrees of timing at WOT (and thats at 50/50 ratio because my stock fuel system can't get enough E in the cylinders). Naturally aspirated engines will probably have more benefit from race gas.

[C5Natie]

Figured I would chime in now. Ive been running a mix of 30% E85 and 70% 91oct now for two years. I love it because I run 12.3:1 compression with no knock even on hot summer days. Also even though the car is tuned for this mix i can use straight 91oct if i get stuck too far from a station with e85. Also the car motor seems to run cooler and parts such as heads and pistons remain cleaner. FYI, modern cars, 90's and up, have fuel systems that are compatible with ethanol even if they arent rated for it. These vehicles dont use straight rubber like older cars. New fuel systems have chemical and alcohol resistant hoses. Ive used my stock fuel system with no issues. Only difference was bigger injectors which i already had due to my previous mods. E85 is a great fuel for high performance vehicles, too bad its in limited supply here in socal.

[2011GT302]

So how does E85 effect California Smog?

[Damian]

Not sure, never ran it when I got my smog check.

[C5Natie]

So how does E85 effect California Smog?


Ethanol burns cleaner so it will lower emissions. Just dont tell the tech in the case you vehicle isnt flexfuel.

[enkeivette]

More boost, less detonation - Pro
Worse gas mileage, all rubber seals in the fuel system have to be replaced with teflon - Con

[Damian]

It depends on how old the car is though. My 02 Eclipse ran E85 with zero issues. Everything was OEM, even though I used bigger injectors and a bigger fuel pump, both were just from different Mitsubishis.

[C5Natie]

I say its all in the tuning. With my big cam, heads, full exhaust and e85 Im getting 21mpg cruising on the hwy. Not the stock 28mpg I got stock but you gotta sacrifice something. If you really want power, youre not worrying about mileage.

[Damian]

Thats still not bad, thats about what I was getting.

[Ryridesmotox]

You have to remember that you are using more fuel on Ethanol. I see about a 5MPG drop myself, running the 50/50 91/E85 mix. But I have HP tuners so I run one or the other. I believe its something like 30% less MPG on straight E85 (don't quote me on that cuz I amy not have it exact). But in all honesty, I usually run 91 for the commute and a few tanks here and there of the mix to have a little fun with. Nothin like roasting the tires from a 60mph roll to get the blood a flowin.

[C5Natie]

^^
Yup, 33% less mpg with 100% E85.

[Damian]

For those of you in the OC area that want to run E85, but couldn't, you can soon. http://propelfuels.com/ is converting a gas station here in Fullerton to E85 as I type this. I know what I'll be running when the Typhoon is put back together.

[SeanPlunk]

For those of you in the OC area that want to run E85, but couldn't, you can soon. http://propelfuels.com/ is converting a gas station here in Fullerton to E85 as I type this. I know what I'll be running when the Typhoon is put back together.

Do you know when it opens?

[Damian]

Not sure, nothing says when. They just have a huge hole in the ground right now.

[SkunkLookingCar]

For those of you in the OC area that want to run E85, but couldn't, you can soon. http://propelfuels.com/ is converting a gas station here in Fullerton to E85 as I type this. I know what I'll be running when the Typhoon is put back together.

This is excellent news. I would like to get some closer to me but this is a start.

[Damian]

The only other one even near us is in Santa Monica and I think there are one our two out in the IE. It awsome that one is opening up literrally right around the corner from me.

[Ryridesmotox]

For those of you in the OC area that want to run E85, but couldn't, you can soon. http://propelfuels.com/ is converting a gas station here in Fullerton to E85 as I type this. I know what I'll be running when the Typhoon is put back together.

You should budget in for upgraded fuel lines if you are going to run ethanol. Those systems weren't designed to run it from the factory. But with the fuel injection system on the 4.3 you can run alot of fuel through those injectors so you might as well use straight e85. Don't be shocked if you are getting like 15 mpg though.

[injdinjn]

According to what I have read from SEMA E85 is ok in cars 2001 and newer. Older cars it's not good for them.

[Damian]

I wont run straight E85 for awhile.

[Ryridesmotox]

I wont run straight E85 for awhile.

If you have everything apart, you might want to at least install fuel system components that are E85 compatible. Ethanol is a bit harsh on rubber and stuff. Once you start running corn through the 4.3 turbo you will never want to go back haha.

[Shaolin Crane]

According to what I have read from SEMA E85 is ok in cars 2001 and newer. Older cars it's not good for them.

Not sure if that is accurate. Mustang from 79-04 all have similar parts. So i doubt it would work with them, and since the trucks share the same parts that wont fly either.

[Damian]

If you have everything apart, you might want to at least install fuel system components that are E85 compatible. Ethanol is a bit harsh on rubber and stuff. Once you start running corn through the 4.3 turbo you will never want to go back haha.

The only thing Ive seen E85 do is swell up the rubber o-rings around the injectors.

[Ryridesmotox]

I found this on my HP tuners forums. Thought you guys might enjoy reading it.

http://delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2011-01-0900.pdf

23 pages, have fun.

[Damian]

The E85 station is now up and running!! I'll be running 93 octane tomorrow.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g45/meclipsegt/07a4416d.jpg

[Vettezuki]

The E85 station is now up and running!! I'll be running 93 octane tomorrow.

Where is that?

[Ryridesmotox]

The E85 station is now up and running!! I'll be running 93 octane tomorrow.

Are you going to run straight e85 or a 91/e85 mix? And if you are doing either I hope you have some kind of tuning in place to account for the extra fuel needed when you are running maize.

[Vettezuki]

Are you going to run straight e85 or a 91/e85 mix? And if you are doing either I hope you have some kind of tuning in place to account for the extra fuel needed when you are running maize.

This was my next question if you just mix in a galloon or so to ten gallons, taking it to E20 or something like that I think the fuel trim from the computer will be able to handle it all by itself. I've read elsewhere that modern cars without any extra tuning can handle up to about E50.

[Shaolin Crane]

This was my next question if you just mix in a galloon or so to ten gallons, taking it to E20 or something like that I think the fuel trim from the computer will be able to handle it all by itself. I've read elsewhere that modern cars without any extra tuning can handle up to about E50.

Read the labels on the pump and you'll see fuel no a days is up to 35% ethanol anyhow. It's a way to supplement income for the oil companies, force us to buy more fuel and charge for standard fuel costs. Bullshit if you ask me. IIRC 76 is the only station that limits theres to less then 5%. The guys at chevron were telling us that they sometimes send out lods that are around 50% without notfiying anyone.

[Ryridesmotox]

Most cars can account but with mine I tuned for half n half e and 91 but that was for performance. I think its bullshit cuz the c.a.f.e. standards bullshit forces companies to get cars with certain fuel economy and ethanol makes you use more fuel. I almost want to move. I hear they are doing smog checkpoints now? This state is fucked. Damn communists are ruining this place.

[Damian]

It's on the corner of Raymond and Chapman.

I'm only going to be running 4 gallons of E85 out of 20 gallons total. Last time I mixed it that way I didn't even notice any difference in mileage.

[Damian]

Most cars can account but with mine I tuned for half n half e and 91 but that was for performance. I think its bullshit cuz the c.a.f.e. standards bullshit forces companies to get cars with certain fuel economy and ethanol makes you use more fuel. I almost want to move. I hear they are doing smog checkpoints now? This state is fucked. Damn communists are ruining this place.

They've been doing that in SD for awhile now. A buddy of mine almost ran into one. He luckily was able to avoid it.

On a side note, 4 gallons of E85 made my truck so much smoother. Very happy now. AFRs are still good and pulls a little better now.

[Ryridesmotox]

They've been doing that in SD for awhile now. A buddy of mine almost ran into one. He luckily was able to avoid it.

On a side note, 4 gallons of E85 made my truck so much smoother. Very happy now. AFRs are still good and pulls a little better now.

Is it patrolled by cops and stuff? I want to know what statute they are using to illegally stop and search our vehicles without cause.

Either way... E85 will run cleaner so you might be able to pass it even without a cat installed.

[Shaolin Crane]

It's 100% subjective and voluntary. Dont be afraid to tell them to get fucked, print out the statute and keep it in your glove box for when the time comes.

[Shaolin Crane]

http://www.smogtips.com/remote_sensing.cfm

[Ryridesmotox]

It's 100% subjective and voluntary. Dont be afraid to tell them to get fucked, print out the statute and keep it in your glove box for when the time comes.

Lol I'm not afraid to tell them that. I know what they can and can't due from my law classes and stuff. Always try to be somewhat respectful though cuz if not they will waste as much of your time as possible and come up with some bullshit reason as to why they did so to cover their ass.

[Shaolin Crane]

Let them come up with as much bullshit as possible, it will only help with your entrapment case.

[Ryridesmotox]

Let them come up with as much bullshit as possible, it will only help with your entrapment case.

Well it's not really entrapment per se... its more of a violation of the 4th amendment. Illegal/unreasonable detention, search, or seizure without cause. They are detaining you without cause, since you have a registered vehicle which would mean that you have passed all smog related requirements (in this particular case). So they are subjecting you, me, or any of us, to unreasonable detention followed by a search without just cause. fortunately for us, as citizens, the Bill of Rights and following amendments of the Constitution protect us above all else. Even if a state says its 'OK', if it violates any amendment, you can fall back on that and (hopefully) come out on top so to speak

Entrapment would be a cop trying to sell you illegal equipment for you car, installing it for you, then busting you for it.

[Shaolin Crane]

Entrapment is also using your rights to a voluntary stop to search your car because you said no. It violates both. I'll hit my kill switch and have it towed before they fuck with my vehicle.

[Ryridesmotox]

Entrapment is also using your rights to a voluntary stop to search your car because you said no. It violates both. I'll hit my kill switch and have it towed before they fuck with my vehicle.

True, but usually its not a very voluntary stop when there are 20 cops with spike strips, shotguns, and rifles... sounds more like a military checkpoint in Falluja, Iraq than a "smog checkpoint" in Commifornia... I swear Carl Marx, Joe Stalin, and Vladimir Lenin didn't die, they are living in Sacramento, this is starting to become a police state.

[Shaolin Crane]

I agree, but telling them to step off is our right. One i'll exercise fully

[Damian]

They do the smog stop just like they do a DUI checkpoint. They do "random" car testing. I use the word "random" extremely loose here.

[Shaolin Crane]

You mean anything rice, or from the big 3? :smack:

[Damian]

ALL rice.

You can't call them rice anymore, it's "rice and beans". I don't think I need to explain why.

[Shaolin Crane]

There main objective is muscle, they're the gross poluters. Tis the way it goes.

[Ryridesmotox]

There main objective is muscle, they're the gross poluters. Tis the way it goes.

Most of the muscle is older cars though. And I don't have to tell most of you guys that a well tuned car doesn't even need emissions controls to run clean. Whether its a tuned Carb or tuned fuel injection.

[Shaolin Crane]

They target foxes and early SN's heavily, same with camaros and firebirds.

[Ryridesmotox]

Yea true. So do they do an.actual test on the side of.the road? Or is it a visual inspection. If its visual you can pass with a gutted cat.

[Damian]

From what I understand is that they do an actual sniffer test.

[Shaolin Crane]

Yep, on rollers.

[Ryridesmotox]

Wow ridiculous. And they ticket you if you are out of smog restrictions then you get a fine? Awesome if I get sent to one of those I am going to refuse to test until they show me the statute that makes the illegal search of my personal property legal, or a warrant to search my vehicle and its contents. Fuckin government, they forget they rule by the will of the people, that we don't serve them. Mark my words gents, there will be a revolution in the near future, and we will take our country back.