Fisker Karma Gets Worse MPG than an SUV

[Vettezuki]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/warrenmeyer/2011/10/20/update-fisker-karma-electric-car-gets-worse-mileage-than-an-suv

"Congrats to the Fisker Karma, which now joins corn ethanol in the ranks of heavily subsidized supposedly green technologies that are actually worse for the environment than current solutions."

Haha. Stupid government . . . or stupid taxpayer, not sure which.

[Damian]

Sounds familiar, the Volt comes to mind.

[Chuck]

electric vehicle makers want to pretend that the electricity to charge the car comes from magic sparkle ponies sprinkling pixie dust rather than burning fossil fuels.

[Vettezuki]

electric vehicle makers want to pretend that the electricity to charge the car comes from magic sparkle ponies sprinkling pixie dust rather than burning fossil fuels.

The smart thing would be nuclear. Go ahead and tell a greeny that.

Solar? Kinda cool, but actually ridiculously inefficient.
Wind? Works pretty well. . . . when the wind is blowing. Kills wildlife, sorta noisy, casts shadows.
Geothermal? Pretty effective, but limited access. We could turn the whole caldera around Yellowstone into a bunch of plants, but that's not likely.

Never mind that if electrics were broadly adopted the entire grid would have to be MASSIVELY upgraded for that capacity.

[Shaolin Crane]

I'll take a car that runs on rainbows and unicorns husks

[SeanPlunk]

Nuclear + Diesel/Electric hybrids = win.

[Vettezuki]

Nuclear + Diesel/Electric hybrids = win.

Diesel electric is very effecient. In fact, that's what almost all trains really are. I think VW has done some work, but so far the cost would be too high to warrent the difference in mileage still. Diesel is still a few thousand premium over gas engines as far as I know, and in the US diesel fuel costs more than premium. So there are some hurtles.

Nuclear is so obvious I don't even know what to say. But the powers arrayed against it are intense . . . ly stupid. Unfortunately. they're also quite powerful. Hence we have very little in the way of new refineries or nuke plants even on the boards. :suicide:

We had better hope and pray for some miracle technology to come on line, or energy costs are going to fugly in the not so distant future.

[Shaolin Crane]

Remember diesel didnt use to cost more, it was actually about $0.75 a gallon before common rail diesel vehicles became popular, but the government couldnt have people making more horsepower and torque, getting better mileage and have more reliable and longer lasting vehicles without getting their hands into it. Currently about 80% of diesel cost is tax and markup, for what it takes to make 1 gallon of gasoline there is 20 gallons of diesel made as a bi-product. This isnt something thats avoided, it all happens during the refining process, so simply, diesel is all profit.

Look at red diesel (untaxable, non road use) sells for around $0.80-$1.00 a gallon, crooks, i tell you, all of them

[blackax]

electric vehicle makers want to pretend that the electricity to charge the car comes from magic sparkle ponies sprinkling pixie dust rather than burning fossil fuels.


Thats true but it does help that is all done in one place and at a larger scale so it's better in the long run.

[Vettezuki]

Thats true but it does help that is all done in one place and at a larger scale so it's better in the long run.

The thermodynamic efficiency of modern plants is much higher than a car engine, that's for sure. But there are distribution losses over distances. The main point is that electricity doesn't grow on trees and I do think a lot of people somehow don't quite realize that electrical power is NOT a natural resource. It has to be created.

[Small White Car]

Bio-diesel/WVO series hybrid electric vehicles along with home solar charging to the grid and what the hell, how about a giant hamster wheel out back so you can keep the pounds off you lazy fu...

Ehem.


I'm also interested in the latest nuclear reactors, small units that produce no waste or at least a very manageable amount for the energy produced.

The thing is these technologies all have to come together in order to achieve strides in any part of it, it's all pieces of the same puzzle.

[Ryridesmotox]

I think the best fuel economy would come from a car I was dreaming about the other day....... take a reasonably aerodynamically efficient vehicle (I.E. not my old Suburban) put a little cummins diesel generator in it with a gear reduction system to make a decent sized alternator spin fast enough to make enough energy to turn a few electric motors. The diesel would essentially be at a high idle about 1200-1500 rpm. It would run forever on a gallon of fuel... plus you could get WVO, propane, bio-diesel, or kerosene if you needed it lol... whatever is cheapest for you. THAT would be the bee's knees right there.

[Ryridesmotox]

Actually I just thought of a better idea....

We need to find a way to harness all the hot air politicians blow up our asses... Hell, Obama could have powered Chicago for a year.

[Shaolin Crane]

If we harnessing politicians, lets harness them to an anchor and dump them off a boat

[Ryridesmotox]

LOL but we would be trashing our environment with the toxic waste they spew from their fat fucking faces

[Leedom]

People are always going to believe what they want. You present this to any tree-huger and they will tell you that you are distorting the facts to make your argument when in fact they are doing that to themselves to justify their "Electric" vehicle.

[Ryridesmotox]

People are always going to believe what they want. You present this to any tree-huger and they will tell you that you are distorting the facts to make your argument when in fact they are doing that to themselves to justify their "Electric" vehicle.

This reminds me of my conversations with my father-in-law about wind farms. He said they are built using governments funds and when the windmills breakdown they are not fixed because that would be too costly.

Either way they cannot deny the fact that the electric cars need nickle which is horrible for the environment to mine, that is flown around the world to like china or some shit then to be put into batteries in europe or something. It is a joke how much then think they are better than us when they dont even know how much the batteries hurt the environment they are trying to "save" from people like me who drive an old car...

And from my point of view on wind tower thing... My family has a bunch on our farm in Oregon. Ours are not subsidized by the government per se.... they are put there and maintained by a utility company who rents the acreage from out farm. So they aren't really "ours" and I can assure you they are repaired regularly. The family is going to be getting more that we are going to buy on our own too... that shit is worth alot of money up there since the wind blows so freaking much. They are good but only for more rural areas. I mean come on do they think there is enough wind to power LA and large cities. And they really aren't that loud. I have stood right under them before. And since they are in our fields we harvest right next to them.

[blackax]

Either way they cannot deny the fact that the electric cars need nickle which is horrible for the environment to mine, that is flown around the world to like china or some shit then to be put into batteries in europe or something.....


That's why we should use flow battery's. We still need to find ways to hold more energy in the electrolyte but we are getting closer.

I'm one of the least green guys around. But I am a cheap guy, so I will take the cheapest way most of the time and if that turns out to be a hybrid that cool with me. ( doubt that will happen any time soon)

[Ryridesmotox]

Yea that battery flow stuff is greek to me... But I know how to solve a problem when one is presented... and to me it is quite an obvious solution. There is a commercial for CSX freight lines... They say that they can haul 1 ton of freight 500 miles on one... ONE gallon of fuel. Ok yea granted that is on a track that is most likely level, but why can't that technology come into cars? I'll tell you why... The oil companies control the government... we should, but we can't cuz the crooks in office are bought and sold like a $5 hooker on Saturday night.

[Vettezuki]

Yea that battery flow stuff is greek to me... But I know how to solve a problem when one is presented... and to me it is quite an obvious solution. There is a commercial for CSX freight lines... They say that they can haul 1 ton of freight 500 miles on one... ONE gallon of fuel. Ok yea granted that is on a track that is most likely level, but why can't that technology come into cars? I'll tell you why... The oil companies control the government... we should, but we can't cuz the crooks in office are bought and sold like a $5 hooker on Saturday night.


There's not really any technology to speak of. It's the coeffecient of friction of steal wheels on steal rails. Impossible to duplicate in a car with tires on any road surface. The rest of it comes from totally optimized diesel generators powering electric motors. That part can be duplicated, and VW is working on it AIR. However, that will certainly cost more than a gas hybrid so you have to factor in fuel cost.

Personally, if I were to get another dd any time soon, a Focus ALL electric is distinctly possible. I don't have to drive that much at one time and powering up off the grid is definitely <$/mile, even in dumb fuck CA where power is quite expensive.

[Shaolin Crane]

Could i get a car powered by farts? Cause man i tell ya, after a bag of jerky i could blow a room up and fumigate it at the same time