1982 Corvette Starting Issue

[Vettezuki]

Some of you know what i'm talking about.

The battery, starter and postiive battery cable are all brand new or pretty new. The alternator seems fine.

Basically when turning the key it makes a single click like the solonoid is switching on or trying to, but no current is going through. If I do it repeatedly, especially rapidly while swearing, eventually it'll catch and start right up. I haven't found anything about starter relays (after ignition switch, before solonoid) but maybe there is such a thing or it's something. Please to help as I'm getting a little pissed at this one.

[Shaolin Crane]

Have you tried changing the solenoid on the starter?

[Vettezuki]

Have you tried changing the solenoid on the starter?

It did the same thing before I changed to a brand new (not remanufactured) starter and solonoid. So unless it was kinda bad on the old and kinda bad on the brand new, that ain't it.

[Shaolin Crane]

Have you tested the ignition switch?

[Vettezuki]

Have you tested the ignition switch?

No. How do I do that?

[kdracer73]

We need to test the voltage to the solenoid when it happens in crank position. I have seen a few cars that had voltage drop issues in the path to the starter.

[Vettezuki]

We need to test the voltage to the solenoid when it happens in crank position. I have seen a few cars that had voltage drop issues in the path to the starter.

I'm guessing you can imagine my next question :p

[kdracer73]

I'm guessing you can imagine my next question :p
I will be at Frankie's Sat after work, 4:00ish. If you be home , I can stop by.

[Vettezuki]

I will be at Frankie's Sat after work, 4:00ish. If you be home , I can stop by.

Please and thank you. :)

[Shaolin Crane]

Well with the foxes there is a box that controls all ignition functions, its only a $12 part so i would have no clue to really test it :huh:

I guess the first start would be Paul's suggestion

[kdracer73]

No suitable connector in my books. Checked A/C Delco and Motorcraft. All the ones they show are to low of a amp rating.

[Vettezuki]

No suitable connector in my books. Checked A/C Delco and Motorcraft. All the ones they show are to low of a amp rating.

Thanks for your help Saturday and thanks for looking.

So it's bone yard or solder I guess. I'm trying to rememeber this place near buena park which handles all kinds of custom wiring and connectors. I'll also hit up Zac at Speed Scene Wiring to see what he's got.

BTW, what kind of amps we talking here?

[kdracer73]

Thanks for your help Saturday and thanks for looking.

BTW, what kind of amps we talking here?

Not sure , was just going off the size of the wires and spades in them.

[enkeivette]

I had this exact issue. After screwing around with the multimeter, wasting a good amount of time, I discovered the negative battery cable connector was corroded, and it wasn't grounding sufficiently for the amperage draw when you crank the starter.

Do your lights go dim when you turn the key, trying to crank it?

[Vettezuki]

I had this exact issue. After screwing around with the multimeter, wasting a good amount of time, I discovered the negative battery cable connector was corroded, and it wasn't grounding sufficiently for the amperage draw when you crank the starter.

Do your lights go dim when you turn the key, trying to crank it?

Haven't checked that. The reason we think it's right at the connector is that when we take it out of the equation, the starter has 0% trouble triggering.

[enkeivette]

At the starter connector? Sure it's not the fusible links?

[Vettezuki]

At the starter connector? Sure it's not the fusible links?

No. Harness in the engine bay. Big old connector spliced from the main harness to a sub harness including the line to the solenoid on the starter.

[Vettezuki]

From ls1z28, who did most of the real swap and harness work.


The place you are looking for is M&H electric in santa fe springs. It would be the starter jumper harness that you are looking for.

[Vettezuki]

M&H only makes and sells harnesses not connectors.

So I went to J&D and while I was able to locate used male and female connectors from the parts bin and bone yard, they wanted $80 for the pair. Balls to that, so I called up Zac at Speed Scene Wiring (http://www.speedscenewiring.com/) in TX. They're the ones who made my custom harness. He's pretty sure he has them new and will check on Monday after I send him some pics. Shipped $25-35 for the pair. That's more reasonable!

[Chuck]

Supply and demand you would pay it if it was your daily driver and you needed it to get to work. But since you don't drive it every day you can save your self some coin and get it from Texas. Good deal hope it fixes your problem. If not try the big 3...

[Chuck]

This may help...

Since this question comes up again and again here, I thought this might be a useful post. Performing a "Big 3" upgrade on your vehicle is one way to improve the electrical system performance and its ability to supply power to your audio system. This upgrade will help any vehicle using an after-market amplified stereo system, and most certainly should be performed on any vehicle after a high-output alternator is installed.

Please be sure you read and understand this entire instruction before you begin.

Definition: the "Big Three" upgrade means improving the current capacity of three cables: 1) alternator positive to battery positive, 2) battery negative to chassis, and 3) engine ground to chassis. Some people replace the factory wiring; others add additional cables to the factory wiring. This instruction is to add cables to existing OEM wiring.

Parts and Tools:

As a minimum, you will need to purchase the following:

• Sufficient length of high-strand count high capacity power cable.
- The length required differs for every vehicle. You can measure the length of the existing cables and buy the same length, or contact your dealer or a mechanic and ask, or sometimes you can look it up in a manufacturer's wiring book, or guess. If you guess, make sure you over-estimate and buy too much.
- High strand count cable is more flexible and more reliable than low-strand count cable. Never use solid-core wire in a moving vehicle as it will eventually break.
- The gauge of wire you need depends on the total current draw of your audio system, and/or the current generating capacity of your alternator. Never use smaller cable that you used to power your amps; never use smaller cable than what already exists in your vehicle; never use smaller cable than the generating capacity of your alternator; never use smaller than 4 AWG (it's just not worth the time to use anything smaller); if in doubt, always use higher gauge cable than you think you need. If you look at the Power and Ground charts and your amplifier current draw corresponds to 2 AWG cable, use no smaller than 2 AWG cable, and use 1/0 if you can.

• 6 ring terminals or lugs of the appropriate size for the cable chosen. Two of these need to be large enough to fit over your battery posts, or appropriately sized to bolt onto your existing battery terminals.
• 1/2" or 5/8" shrink tubing (or some other form of permanent electrical insulation. Tape is NOT recommended.)
• Cable ties (plastic zip ties.)

• Wire cutters large enough to handle the cable you choose.
• Crimpers large enough to handle the connectors you choose.
• Soldering iron or gun.
• Solder.
• Scotch brite and/or a small wire brush.
• Heat gun.
• Safety razor blade (or other tool for stripping cable).
• Heat gun (if using shrink tubing).
• Wrenches for removing bolts in your vehicle.

Procedure:

1. Make sure your engine is completely cool before beginning. Identify the three cables being replaced. Make sure you can reach both ends of all cables. NOTE: the engine block to chassis cable may be between the engine and the transmission, or connected to the transmission and the fire wall, and is often an un-insulated flat braid cable.

2. Determine the lengths of cable needed to reach between the three locations being upgraded. Be sure you measure with a flexible tape (a tape measure used for sewing works great) and record the total length along the path you intend to install the cable. You do not want your cables to be pulled tight between any two locations as things move and vibrate as you drive. Be sure to include at least 1 inch extra for slack. NOTE: there is no reason to copy the existing wiring layout in your vehicle unless you want to. Also, be sure that the path you choose does not follow or lay across anything that gets hot, like exhaust parts, or anything that must move, like throttle linkage.

3. Cut your new cable to the three proper lengths. NOTE: some people like to use red cable for positive and black cable for negative. Doing this is completely up to you and is nice, but not necessary. You can use cable with any color insulation you like.

4. Strip each end of all cables to the proper length for the terminal lugs being used. NOTE: after full insertion into the lug, a small "band" of bare wire is usually seen between the back of the lug and the beginning of the cable insulation.

5. Begin at any one end and insert the stripped cable into the lug. Make sure it is fully inserted. Crimp the connector to hold the wire in place. NOTE: crimping large cable can be difficult. The intention here is not to make the crimp the sole means of holding the wire, but only to make sure the lug does not slip around during the soldering phase. I do NOT recommend using hammers or pliers or vices to crimp the connector as over-crimping can break the strands of the cable, reducing the current carrying capacity. Do not over-crimp.

6. You may need to use a vise or some other set of "helping hands" to hold the cable while you solder it. Heat your soldering iron and place it on the connector (on the lug side) barrel. Hold a piece of solder against the tip of the iron and melt the solder into the strands of the cable. Use sufficient solder to fill the connector and completely cover all strands of the cable. NOTE: the lug will get hot and will burn you if you try to hold it. Also, if the insulation on the cable starts to melt, you are over-heating the cable and not paying attention to melting the solder into the cable. You do not need to try and melt the cable!

7. Repeat the above steps on each end of all three cables.

8. After the cables have completely cooled, cut a piece of shrink tubing long enough to cover the soldered barrel end of the lugs and reach about 1/2" onto the insulation of each cable end. Slide this over each lug and use a heat gun to recover the tubing in place.

9. Disconnect your battery, starting with the negative cable first then the positive cable. Discharge any caps you may have in the system.

10. Begin adding your new cables along side the existing ones. I usually begin with the alternator positive cable. Locate the output stud on your alternator and remove the nut. Slip the new cable onto the lug and replace the nut. There is no need to disturb the existing cabling. Route the new cable to the battery and position it to connect to the positive battery post (or connect it to the positive terminal on the OEM wiring) but do not connect the battery yet.

11. Secure the new cable in place by using cable ties every 6 to 8 inches. Secure the cable to cool non-moving parts!

12. Locate where the negative battery cable attaches to the vehicle chassis. Remove this bolt and the OEM battery cable, and clean the mounting area of the chassis using scotch brite and/or a wire brush. Make sure there is no dirt, rust, paint, undercoating, etc in this location. You want bright shiny metal. Connect both your new ground and the OEM ground back to the chassis. NOTE: Some people like to create a new ground location by drilling into the chassis and using a bolt with star lock washers for the new ground cable. Route this new cable back to the battery and position it to be attached, or connect it to the negative terminal. Do not reconnect the battery yet.

13. Secure the negative cable using cable ties every 6-8 inches. Again, don't tie it to anything that moves or that gets hot!

14. Disconnect the engine ground strap at both ends. Using the wire brush or scotch brite, clean both the engine block and the chassis as you did for the first ground strap.

15. Line up the lugs on both the OEM ground strap and your new ground cable, and use cable ties to secure them to each other. This is much easier to accomplish in your lap or on the floor than it is while lying under your car or hanging upside down in the engine compartment. Reinstall both cables at the same time using the factory bolts.

16. Double check to make sure all bolts are tight. Be careful not to over-tighten them as you don't want to strip anything! Also, on some factory alternators it is WAY too easy to twist off the positive output lug. If you break it off, well hell, you really wanted a high-output alternator anyway, right? It is also a good idea at this point to measure resistance of the new cables. Take an ohm reading between the battery end of the new ground cable and the engine block. It should read less than one ohm. Also check between the alternator bolt and the disconnected positive battery terminal, which should also be less than one ohm. If you read too high resistance, double check all connections and make sure you do not have something c**ked sideways or hanging loose.

[Vettezuki]

Zac at Speed Scene said:

Hi Ben I dont have that connector. It hasnt been produced in at least 20yrs. You may want to update it with another newer style connector


So I'll see tomorrow if he's got a good option. I don't care about "period correct" connector. THis car has nothing to do with preservation. I just need an appropriate pair of connectors to act as a coupling. I could just solder them together, but then I'd have to cut them in the future when removing the engine (or disconnect at a bunch of other places). I generally don't like short cuts.

This is the connector in question.

http://motorgen.com/pic/data/500/82Vette_JumperHarnessConnector_01.jpg

[Shaolin Crane]

Why not just standard weather packing connectors? They are like $12 a pair and is what i used in many places on my car, I might actually have a couple layin around if you want to try them out.

[Vettezuki]

Why not just standard weather packing connectors? They are like $12 a pair and is what i used in many places on my car, I might actually have a couple layin around if you want to try them out.

I have no idea what those are. Please advise.

[Shaolin Crane]

http://www.whiteproducts.com/connectors.shtml

[Vettezuki]

http://www.whiteproducts.com/connectors.shtml


Assuming it'll handle the heavv gauge wire (6/8 I guess) that fiver would do the trick just fine. Are these off the shelf at AutoZone, O'Reily, etc.

[Shaolin Crane]

Not sure about off the shelf at those places but king bolt in covina stocks them. I only have a 4 prong unfortunately, make a call and if they have the heavy duty connector i'll grab it for you.

[Vettezuki]

What tools are required and do you have them? I'm assuming yes. I'll probably need help if I go this route.

[kdracer73]

Assuming it'll handle the heavv gauge wire (6/8 I guess) that fiver would do the trick just fine. Are these off the shelf at AutoZone, O'Reily, etc.

I'm thinking more like 10-12ga..prob 12ga

[Shaolin Crane]

What paul said 4ga is about the size of a sharpie

[Vettezuki]

I'm thinking more like 10-12ga..prob 12ga

Well, that'd be borderline, since White Products says 12 gauge is the max.

[Vettezuki]

Ok, here's what I'm going to get I think. I can just specify what gauge pins I need at check out. So now I just need to measure the wires to see what gauges they are for realz I guess.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230493731245&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AX%3ARTQ%3AMOTORS%3A1123&vxp=mtr

[Chuck]

Those look like 12-14 to me but it's hard to tell by the pic maybe 10-12. Ben try and see if you can look for writing on the side of the wire to figure out exactly what it is. Than go from there. If you need help ill help ya out...

[Vettezuki]

Those look like 12-14 to me but it's hard to tell by the pic maybe 10-12. Ben try and see if you can look for writing on the side of the wire to figure out exactly what it is. Than go from there. If you need help ill help ya out...

Will there actually be a number indicating gauge on the side?

[Vettezuki]

What are likely these gauges? This is total diameter including insulation. All stranded of course.

0.180 (2x) Red, Purple
0.140 (2x) Red/white, Red/black
0.115 (1x) Black

I'm thinking 10, 12, 14 Respectively?

[Shaolin Crane]

http://www.reade.com/Conversion/wire_gauge.html

[Vettezuki]

http://www.reade.com/Conversion/wire_gauge.html

That's for the wire (stripped) I don't know that as the wire is still in the connectors. The measured thickness is including insulation.

[Shaolin Crane]

IIRC there is no standard insulation size, ive seen super thick insulation and paper thin for the same gauge wire

[Vettezuki]

IIRC there is no standard insulation size, ive seen super thick insulation and paper thin for the same gauge wire

Chcukles is going to help me sus it out further tomorrow night. Then I'll order precisely the correct pins with the connector and make an appointment with you.

[Shaolin Crane]

Chuck would probably be able to help you just as much as i could :huh:

that way you wouldnt have to drive

[Vettezuki]

Chuck would probably be able to help you just as much as i could :huh:

that way you wouldnt have to drive


But you have the Gucci crimp tool.

BTW, the gauages broke down to
1x14
3x12
1x10

[Shaolin Crane]

Im sure Chuck does as well, not saying im not down to help, its just sort of a far drive.

[Vettezuki]

Im sure Chuck does as well, not saying im not down to help, its just sort of a far drive.

I was under the imagined impression your crimper was for those pens specifically. No biggie, if it's just a nice crimper, I'm sure he does have it and yes it is much closer to me.

[Shaolin Crane]

Last I checked it uses the same crimper as anything else
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/KLEIN-TOOLS-Crimping-Tool-For-Insulated-And-1ED90?cm_mmc=GoogleBase-_-Hand%20Tools-_-Crimping%20Tools-_-1ED90&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=1ED90
Figures king bolt would charge $100 for that

[Vettezuki]

These guys (Performance Plus Connection) on eBay have been great so far. Answering questions immediately. Basically it's $12, free shipping.

Note: We will take care of your request. Note the 12-10 AWG are the same terminal & seal.

[Chuck]

Last I checked it uses the same crimper as anything else
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/KLEIN-TOOLS-Crimping-Tool-For-Insulated-And-1ED90?cm_mmc=GoogleBase-_-Hand%20Tools-_-Crimping%20Tools-_-1ED90&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=1ED90
Figures king bolt would charge $100 for that

Those are exactly what I have.

[Shaolin Crane]

Those are exactly what I have.

Yeah I have some of those and some with an auto stripper and the same crimping tool. Not an electrician but still enjoy them.