Sold the Cobra

[SeanPlunk]

Branched off from ROTW thread.

Excellent, you gonna role with Leedom?

We're headed out early that morning for our vacation in Mammoth. After the flu this week, selling the Cobra, etc, I can't wait to get away. Looks like a ball though. I'm definitely planning to ride along in September wherever we go.

[Shaolin Crane]

So then the cobra is officially gone? What did it go for?

[blackax]

We're headed out early that morning for our vacation in Mammoth. After the flu this week, selling the Cobra, etc, I can't wait to get away. Looks like a ball though. I'm definitely planning to ride along in September wherever we go.

Sad times.

[SeanPlunk]

So then the cobra is officially gone? What did it go for?

I let it go for 22k. I could have probably held out and gotten 23k or maybe even 24k eventually, but it wasn't worth it. Registration is about $300 and was due next month, insurance was also due next month, it was getting close to needing an oil change, and the front brakes could probably use new pads, etc. That's almost a grand right there, and that's not taking into account payments.

Plus, the buyer worked at a dealership, so I didn't have to do anything. I didn't have to smog it, etc. It was totally painless. Combined with all the other factors, it was a relatively easy decision.

[SeanPlunk]

Sad times.

Honestly, I'm not sad at all. I know that sounds weird, but I just wasn't using it. It was an awesome car, I didn't have to do anything to it other than oil changes and just fixing the AC.

It held value like a champ too, so I got a lot of cash out of it (enough that with our existing savings, we have a solid down payment on a house in a couple years). It also drops our monthly liabilities about $450 which will be nice.

In the end with the little guy I just didn't envision myself using it that much for at least a couple years. I'd rather have the cash.

For my next fun car I want something that will be a better all around performer, not so much just a straight line car. The Cobra was fun, but it was loud, the shifter position is atrocious, it already had some creaks and rattles, and I guess I'm getting old because I want something more refined next time. I'm hoping C6 Z06's will drop to the 30k range in 2 years or so. I'd love to pick one up if they do.

Finally, the guy who bought is a really nice guy. He had a Cobra before, and someone ran a redlight and totaled it. He was very excited, it was nice to see. I remember when I was that excited 4 years ago when I got it. I just wasn't that excited anymore.

[Shaolin Crane]

Ive seen c6s go for 20's lately...

[Vettezuki]

Ive seen c6s go for 20's lately...

C6Zs or "just" standard C6s? Last time I looked C6Zs (that didn't have some serious issue/suspicion) were still solidly in the 40s, but that was probably a year ago. :huh:

[AARP]

For my next fun car I want something that will be a better all around performer, not so much just a straight line car. The Cobra was fun, but it was loud, the shifter position is atrocious, it already had some creaks and rattles, and I guess I'm getting old because I want something more refined next time. I'm hoping C6 Z06's will drop to the 30k range in 2 years or so. I'd love to pick one up if they do.


In the mean time pick up a miata for 3k. Most fun you can have for such little money. Plus they've pretty much bottomed out on their value and are only going up from here.

[Vettezuki]

In the mean time pick up a miata for 3k. Most fun you can have for such little money. Plus they've pretty much bottomed out on their value and are only going up from here.


They get good mileage too. But stepping down from 450WHP is probably a little rough. OTOH, I love driving my wife's MX-5 and in a lot of places don't really miss the power that much. In canyon's and what not, hard to be for fun.

[AARP]

They get good mileage too. But stepping down from 450WHP is probably a little rough. OTOH, I love driving my wife's MX-5 and in a lot of places don't really miss the power that much. In canyon's and what not, hard to be for fun.

Yep, but the result of that lack of power is a better driver. You have to follow the racing line to the T to make up for it.

Or if you want more power you can just slap on a turbo that'll get you to 350 HP :sm_laughing:

[Shaolin Crane]

C6Zs or "just" standard C6s? Last time I looked C6Zs (that didn't have some serious issue/suspicion) were still solidly in the 40s, but that was probably a year ago. :huh:

I didnt say c6z, i said c6 ;)

[Vettezuki]

I didnt say c6z, i said c6 ;)

I know, but Sean isn't interested in a C6 and specifically referred to a C6Z, hence the call for clarification.

[Shaolin Crane]

Its a close enough comparison, drop a few grand into the engine and you essentially have a z06. Good enough for me to save 20k and not have to pay the extra insurance

[Vettezuki]

Its a close enough comparison, drop a few grand into the engine and you essentially have a z06. Good enough for me to save 20k and not have to pay the extra insurance

Probably more than a few to get real close, the dry sump a lone is a major cost. BADDASSC6 is well beyond a stock C6Z, but he's got the receipts to show what it takes.

[Shaolin Crane]

Sure, but we're talking in the neighborhood of power, figure a few hundred in head work, cam, and intake and you'd be knocking on ls7 power easily.

[Vettezuki]

Sure, but we're talking in the neighborhood of power, figure a few hundred in head work, cam, and intake and you'd be knocking on ls7 power easily.

Not a chance. Almost no one has access to an engine builder like yours, nor can they do that work themselves. So that's well over $1k right there. Ported heads and bigger (still legal) cam on an LS3 could get you over 500BHP. But you wouldn't have the same torque curve (power under the curve). You wouldn't have the dry sump or other higher end engine goodies.

Chevy takes great care to differentiate the base and the Z. It would be a disaster for them if it just a matter of whacking a base with a hammer to make it equal to the Z. It just isn't. But if you're going to go bat shit crazy to make a track car, switching out bunches of stuff for Gucci versions, starting from the C6 is fine, and because it has the metal insteal of Aluminum frame, is arguably a little better for welding in a cage, etc. That's not what we're talking about here though. So yeah, get a base C6, throw a little money at it and you can have a poor man's Z while saving yourself maybe something like $10k . . . maybe. (Though people aren't disciplined and will typically spend themselves right back up into the same range.)

Sean buys stock and does standard easy stuff. For him, the C6Z is a great choice. Also the stance of the C6Z is pretty awesome.

[Shaolin Crane]

Anyone on this board has access to my builder ;)

And Sean has access to me :D

BTW, my buddies ls3 vette put down 412rwhp from the factory with a tuner, thats far under rated if you ask me, and his could have been an oddball case. But thats how i would do it. I'm not knocking the Z in any way other than the price. And if i could afford a Z i would get rid of all my POS mustangs, but i cant so i'll do my best to get around it. Dry sump isnt a deal breaker either, cars has been racing for years without them, something tells me that it wont change either

[jedhead]

You still won't have the quick rev and higher torque from the larger displacement combined with titanium rods. You may match hp, but you won't match peak torque or overall amount of torque under the torque curve without a large increase in displacement or going with forced induction. You will always have a handicap of more curb weight too.

Bob

[Shaolin Crane]

All true, just the way i would go about it, 427 is still attainable with a ls3. Im not saying you'll match it 100% but it'll be pretty damn close and for quite a bit less, there is also a HUGE difference in insurance costs

[Vettezuki]

All true, just the way i would go about it, 427 is still attainable with a ls3. Im not saying you'll match it 100% but it'll be pretty damn close and for quite a bit less, there is also a HUGE difference in insurance costs

Put a blower on your LS3 and call it a day. You'll have more Go than the LS7, and unless you're actually road racing where temp control is a major issue, it'll be plenty reliable, etc. But there's more to it than even engine performance, the C6Z has a different look/stance. That's why you can pick them out on the road fairly easily from the base. They have more swagger.

[Leedom]

Why are we even discussing Sean getting a C6Z? He would drive it no faster than a regular C6. Save the money and buy a C6. He had the Cobra and still drove it slower than a Mach 1. Just saying. :rolling:

[Shaolin Crane]

Put a blower on your LS3 and call it a day. You'll have more Go than the LS7, and unless you're actually road racing where temp control is a major issue, it'll be plenty reliable, etc. But there's more to it than even engine performance, the C6Z has a different look/stance. That's why you can pick them out on the road fairly easily from the base. They have more swagger.

Whats the cheapest blower kit, like 4k? Thats not even in the same ballpark

[Vettezuki]

Whats the cheapest blower kit, like 4k? Thats not even in the same ballpark

It's going to be heads and shoulders above a cam and head work, and an LS7 for raw power for that matter, and still way less than a C6Z. That's my point.

[AARP]

Why are we even discussing Sean getting a C6Z? He would drive it no faster than a regular C6. Save the money and buy a C6. He had the Cobra and still drove it slower than a Mach 1. Just saying. :rolling:

Exactly why a miata is perfect :sm_laughing:

[Shaolin Crane]

It's going to be heads and shoulders above a cam and head work, and an LS7 for raw power for that matter, and still way less than a C6Z. That's my point.

Well if we're upping the cost to a base model blower a rotating assembly is cheaper and will bring it to a 427ci, well enough to match everything but the dry sump.

[mdpalmer]

Wow Sean... cobra is gone... you got good money for it, nice to see it held its value well. I always had a soft spot for the termis, wanted to have one years ago but just couldn't afford it. If I ever get rid of my rex, my next quick car will probably be a C6 ZO6, and I will probably leave it bone stock except for wheels/tires. I absolutely love those cars. I've been lucky enough to spend some time riding in one and a ZR1 and they are both complete animals and can do it all. Hell, last track day I was riding in one and the driver had the A/C on the whole time lol. Awesome.

Anyway, good luck with your house buying and raising the kid. And I thought cars were money pits :) Hope to see you around sometime.

[Chuck]

:popcorn:

[Chuck]

I have been looking at maybe getting one instead of the cts-v only because of cost but I really like the idea of having a 500hp sedan.

[SoCalC55]

I didn't have to do anything to it other than oil changes and just fixing the AC.
mmm i recall something else taking a sh*t in a race... haha even though you still won

in all seriousness that was an awesome car but i know that you'll find something that fits your needs but is still plenty bad ass... Your kid would do real nice in a v8 4-door :bigthumbsup:


I I really like the idea of having a 500hp sedan.I like your thinking

[Sonic03SVT]

There is a lot...LOT more than just engine to set the C6Z apart from the standard C6. Aluminum frame is a big one, and obviously impossible to replicate. Second, to your point about dry sump not being a big deal? Go peruse the road racing forums on vetteforums and see how many people have blown up LS3s in left hand turns on good tires. Go ahead, ill wait.

Crazy right? You wouldnt catch me dead on a track with any vette that didnt have an LS6, or a dry sump LS3/7. Just wouldnt do it, these have not been isolated incidents. They dont all blow up, but lots do. Carlos can probably weigh in here, hes probably aware of this.

C6z is so much more than a C6 with a big engine. IMHO totally worth the extra $, but if its a deal breaker, cant beat a good C6 Z51, just might want to invest in a dry sump setup.

[Vettezuki]

There is a lot...LOT more than just engine to set the C6Z apart from the standard C6. Aluminum frame is a big one, and obviously impossible to replicate. Second, to your point about dry sump not being a big deal? Go peruse the road racing forums on vetteforums and see how many people have blown up LS3s in left hand turns on good tires. Go ahead, ill wait.

Crazy right? You wouldnt catch me dead on a track with any vette that didnt have an LS6, or a dry sump LS3/7. Just wouldnt do it, these have not been isolated incidents. They dont all blow up, but lots do. Carlos can probably weigh in here, hes probably aware of this.

C6z is so much more than a C6 with a big engine. IMHO totally worth the extra $, but if its a deal breaker, cant beat a good C6 Z51, just might want to invest in a dry sump setup.

I think a lot of guys go with the Accusump too.

[Shaolin Crane]

There is a lot...LOT more than just engine to set the C6Z apart from the standard C6. Aluminum frame is a big one, and obviously impossible to replicate. Second, to your point about dry sump not being a big deal? Go peruse the road racing forums on vetteforums and see how many people have blown up LS3s in left hand turns on good tires. Go ahead, ill wait.

Crazy right? You wouldnt catch me dead on a track with any vette that didnt have an LS6, or a dry sump LS3/7. Just wouldnt do it, these have not been isolated incidents. They dont all blow up, but lots do. Carlos can probably weigh in here, hes probably aware of this.

C6z is so much more than a C6 with a big engine. IMHO totally worth the extra $, but if its a deal breaker, cant beat a good C6 Z51, just might want to invest in a dry sump setup.

I never said it would match it car for car, but in seans case as its been pointed out, it could easily be put up to par for faaaaaarr less cash. And that extra amount isnt just vehicle cost, its alot more expensive per month for insurance. I'm just saying its how i would go about it.

And my comment about dry sump was all vehicles, not just vettes in general, plenty of fox guys dont run a dry sump, and neither do i.

[Vettezuki]

I never said it would match it car for car, but in seans case as its been pointed out, it could easily be put up to par for faaaaaarr less cash. And that extra amount isnt just vehicle cost, its alot more expensive per month for insurance. I'm just saying its how i would go about it.

And my comment about dry sump was all vehicles, not just vettes in general, plenty of fox guys dont run a dry sump, and neither do i.

Your point about saving cost and having something with near as much makes no difference performance for someone who is going to use it like Sean is also valid. Also, a dry sump is fine for most people, but once you start getting really serious, it becomes a real issue as Aaron pointed. Note: BADDASSC6 blew up is LS2, that's why it got rebuilt. I don't recall if it was directly a starvation issue, but I'm sure it didn't help.

My attitude is if you're going to be buying up in this range you should just consider what it is that you want to do, and hell if you have the money, what's the difference, get the baller version not the po boy's.

[Shaolin Crane]

Like I said this is how i would do it. Maybe its the cheap bastard in me, or the diy gene, but i know when im shopping for a c5 i'll be passing on the z for sure.

[Sonic03SVT]

A good compromise would be a GS with the 6 speed. At least you keep the dry sump set up, and get the widebody panels, and a removable roof to boot, if thats something that you value.

Though for my money the C6Z (used or new) Is a performance bargain at its current price, and has road presence and capablities that a standard C6 just wont meet, without a massive infusion of time and money. Could you get very, very close to it? sure, but when youre next to one at the stoplight, will you think "I could have had one of those?"
Only Sean could answer that, and if he's going to be slow, he may as well look fast. C6Z for sure :sm_laughing:

As far as passing on the C5Z, as long as youre up for a trans swap, motor work, suspension changes, etc, just start with a hard top. spend the extra 3k you save on heads. (youll still be way short of a Z though, i know, i looked into it - for the difference in purchase price you cant even come close to building a comparable car, it would have been my chosen route, but is really just not an option, sure you can build a better vette out of a hard top, but the z will always be the best starting point, and reach any given point with less $, even considering the inital investment. )

[Shaolin Crane]

A good compromise would be a GS with the 6 speed. At least you keep the dry sump set up, and get the widebody panels, and a removable roof to boot, if thats something that you value.

Though for my money the C6Z (used or new) Is a performance bargain at its current price, and has road presence and capablities that a standard C6 just wont meet, without a massive infusion of time and money. Could you get very, very close to it? sure, but when youre next to one at the stoplight, will you think "I could have had one of those?"
Only Sean could answer that, and if he's going to be slow, he may as well look fast. C6Z for sure :sm_laughing:

As far as passing on the C5Z, as long as youre up for a trans swap, motor work, suspension changes, etc, just start with a hard top. spend the extra 3k you save on heads. (youll still be way short of a Z though, i know, i looked into it - for the difference in purchase price you cant even come close to building a comparable car, it would have been my chosen route, but is really just not an option, sure you can build a better vette out of a hard top, but the z will always be the best starting point, and reach any given point with less $, even considering the inital investment. )

I dont agree, I know going in that I will change everything no matter what, so higher initial cost for the z is not worth it, start with a 99 FRC and get to swappin i've done the math as well, sure maybe I know more people in the industry to make it worth while but I still dont see the need.

[Sonic03SVT]

I perhaps hadnt planned on swapping as much as you are, for instance, i didnt feel like sourcing and swapping a Z06 trans, or having to pony up for a set of heads, when a port on a set of 243s would get me where i ultimately wanted to be. there are also changes in the actual engine block of an LS6, not huge ones, but they are present nonetheless, though if youre dropping in an LS3/7 it would matter obviously

[SeanPlunk]

The reason I would like a Z06 are:

1) I would like to start doing some track racing. When we went K1 racing last time (you know, when I smashed Leedom both seesions) it was so much fun. I know it's not a direct comparison, but 1/4 mile just isn't that appealing anymore. Especially given the fact that the last street legal day I went to yielded 3 runs.
2) The C6 Z06 does seemingly everything well and I wouldn't be very tempted to mod it. Probably an intake and tune only.
3) The LS7 is awesome and I don't think we'll see another 427 anytime soon. Dry sump, titanium valves, revs forever. I think it's the best N/A motor built by an American car company ever.
4) I think a Z06 will hold value substantially better in the long run than a normal C6. I'm not looking to make money off owning a car (I know better), but it was sure nice that after 4 years the Cobra was still worth so much. I guarantee you a Mustang GT would have depreciated A LOT more.

[Shaolin Crane]

I perhaps hadnt planned on swapping as much as you are, for instance, i didnt feel like sourcing and swapping a Z06 trans, or having to pony up for a set of heads, when a port on a set of 243s would get me where i ultimately wanted to be. there are also changes in the actual engine block of an LS6, not huge ones, but they are present nonetheless, though if youre dropping in an LS3/7 it would matter obviously

Im not replacing heads either, valves and valve spring changes are the only thing i would touch, so for around $400 i'd have very well ported heads that flow 300cfm and handle all the lift i need. The transmission in the z wouldnt be a comfortable point anyhow, it would come out and be cryo treated, tumbled and deburred. Suspension would likely need to be changed since lets face it, a 99 is an old car and whether its been driven or low miles means its been sitting, which isnt good for seals when you suddenly start to push the car, or its been driven hard, either way its time to go and a good time to upgrade.

[Vettezuki]

Well, everyone is right in this thread as we have different preferences and methods, that's all. Group hug.

Overall, I'd be exactly the same as Sean now. I've done the major . . major mod of a car and it's fun, but takes a crazy amount of time and effort, which I just don't have at all anymore. That is, for a car I intended to drive regularly and use at least some for regular transportation. I'll always have hot and cold spells with project cars probably.

[Shaolin Crane]

I keep telling myself I'll buy a stock car like a c6 and leave it, but I know im lying to myself. It'll be days before I start buying stuff, and breaking stuff.

[enkeivette]

Honestly, I'm not sad at all. I know that sounds weird, but I just wasn't using it. It was an awesome car, I didn't have to do anything to it other than oil changes and just fixing the AC.

It held value like a champ too, so I got a lot of cash out of it (enough that with our existing savings, we have a solid down payment on a house in a couple years). It also drops our monthly liabilities about $450 which will be nice.

In the end with the little guy I just didn't envision myself using it that much for at least a couple years. I'd rather have the cash.

For my next fun car I want something that will be a better all around performer, not so much just a straight line car. The Cobra was fun, but it was loud, the shifter position is atrocious, it already had some creaks and rattles, and I guess I'm getting old because I want something more refined next time. I'm hoping C6 Z06's will drop to the 30k range in 2 years or so. I'd love to pick one up if they do.

Finally, the guy who bought is a really nice guy. He had a Cobra before, and someone ran a redlight and totaled it. He was very excited, it was nice to see. I remember when I was that excited 4 years ago when I got it. I just wasn't that excited anymore.

Why not buy a cheap dedicated fun car? Like a 3rd gen RX7, something you could buy without having to finance or deplete your savings.

[SeanPlunk]

Why not buy a cheap dedicated fun car? Like a 3rd gen RX7, something you could buy without having to finance or deplete your savings.

Right now I still wouldn't drive it that much, and something like that tends to need a lot of maintenance I don't feel like paying for :sm_laughing:

[enkeivette]

Maybe it's time to stop paying and start wrenching ;)

[AARP]

Right now I still wouldn't drive it that much, and something like that tends to need a lot of maintenance I don't feel like paying for :sm_laughing:

The answer is always miata. Mazda couldn't make it any simpler.

[Shaolin Crane]

No, a fox couldnt be simpler, parts are everywhere, 10 different ford chassis use the same parts. Already have a v8 and can be had for as cheap as a miata and made to handle better ;)
Or go buy a c5

[Vettezuki]

No, a fox couldnt be simpler, parts are everywhere, 10 different ford chassis use the same parts. Already have a v8 and can be had for as cheap as a miata and made to handle better ;)
Or go buy a c5

There's a good sound reason Miatas are ubiquitous throughout SCCA. .

[Shaolin Crane]

I was being a smartass, parts are cheap but not to make them handle

[AARP]

No, a fox couldnt be simpler, parts are everywhere, 10 different ford chassis use the same parts. Already have a v8 and can be had for as cheap as a miata and made to handle better ;)
Or go buy a c5

Very good suggestion. A fox that isn't riced to hell or overpriced is getting harder though. I'll give the fox the speed factor for very little dough, but your having a laugh with the handling :sm_laughing:

[Shaolin Crane]

Dont laugh too hard...
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc322/ShaolinCrane/PICT0147.jpg

[Sonic03SVT]

Most people dont have any clue what the old fox chassis can do with some work unless they've seen it firsthand. Let them laugh, then show em taillights on the track, they wont know what hit them. :thumbs_up::thumbs_up:

[Vettezuki]

Dont laugh too hard...

The original suspension is so dreadfully wrong for a track that you have to attach rather a lot of extra things (some of it partially unsprung weight) to get it track-like. It's impressive what can be done. But I seriously doubt that for equivalent cash outlay, starting from a raw Fox or raw Miata base, that they would even be vaguely comparable for handling feel. I'm not talking about ETs necessarily, but handling feel, which is a qualitative thing anyway. My Vette is substantially updated and hardened and handles quite well for what it is, and plenty fast. It's not at all in the same league as my wife's stock MX-5, which is the best handling car I've driven hard personally. If I were seirous about a track car and racing competively, and didn't have the money for a Vette . . or a Ferrari . . it would be a Miata for sure. Now for cost effective drag racing? A 5.0 Fox with a blower is hard to beat, that's why you see millions of them.

I salute you for doing something somewhat odd though. For the same money and doing something a little unusual, I'd go with Factory Five Type 65, with a Coyote motor or something like that.

[Sonic03SVT]

Tired of mustangs being sold so short in the handling department. We arent discussing stock, far from it. What is "feel"? Ill take a fox that runs faster laps over a ferrari that "feels" better. Its all in the results, and the fact is, the results that can be had with a fox, with minimal outlay really, are seriously impressive.

Coilovers, Subframes, a torque arm setup or sorted Fox4 IRS and a decent diet and you can get a fox chassis to be seriously competitive with some real high dollar cars. Its done regularly, youd be surprised what the results are. Much like "50/50 weight distribution" I think "Feel" is horribly overrated. My car has atrocious weight distribution. Still manages to be awful quick on a track. Drive his fox when its done. Youll be impressed.

[Vettezuki]

Tired of mustangs being sold so short in the handling department. We arent discussing stock, far from it. What is "feel"? Ill take a fox that runs faster laps over a ferrari that "feels" better. Its all in the results, and the fact is, the results that can be had with a fox, with minimal outlay really, are seriously impressive.

Coilovers, Subframes, a torque arm setup or sorted Fox4 IRS and a decent diet and you can get a fox chassis to be seriously competitive with some real high dollar cars. Its done regularly, youd be surprised what the results are. Much like "50/50 weight distribution" I think "Feel" is horribly overrated. My car has atrocious weight distribution. Still manages to be awful quick on a track. Drive his fox when its done. Youll be impressed.

I'm not saying feel is quantitative, it isn't. So I don't really argue about it. If it's not important to you, that's fine. I'm sure Guy's Fox will be brutal on the track, I'm also sure I'd be fairly miserable and pissing blood probably if I drove to and from the track by the sounds of it. Give me the C6Z for equal/greater performance and a car I can drive in other contexts. For competitive racing, it's just a matter of class, objective, and budget. For least expensive serious competitive racing, it's spec Miata. Money no object, I'll take a track ready Ferrari thanks. In between there's a million options and ways to go, and a pimped Fox is one of them. Just for me, vaguely similar budgets, I'd still start with a Vette.

[Shaolin Crane]

I know ive said it before but here goes
With the stock motor, iron heads and all i came in at 2940 with driver perfect 50/50 side to side distributuion
F/R was 56/42, mind you that was with the iron heads and battery in the stock location with stock fan and radiator
Best cornerinfg ability using a autometer dpic was 1.3g4 on R6's well warmed
60-0 was 101'
And this relative "feel" is very under rated, it inspire confidence in any portion of the track

Now figure new engine, battery relocated, additional accessories removed i'll lose about 100lbs off the nose, that will bring it to near perfect 50/50 once the cage is installed.

Now the comfort, well thats gone. Yes, its a workout to drive it sparingly, but get it on a track and its smooth as butter, short turn rack is only 1 turn to lock and can make a 90* turn without overlapping your hands, quick responsivness is perfect, i offer for you to give it a drive with the new engine.

[Vettezuki]

I know ive said it before but here goes
With the stock motor, iron heads and all i came in at 2940 with driver perfect 50/50 side to side distributuion
F/R was 56/42, mind you that was with the iron heads and battery in the stock location with stock fan and radiator
Best cornerinfg ability using a autometer dpic was 1.3g4 on R6's well warmed
60-0 was 101'
And this relative "feel" is very under rated, it inspire confidence in any portion of the track

Now figure new engine, battery relocated, additional accessories removed i'll lose about 100lbs off the nose, that will bring it to near perfect 50/50 once the cage is installed.

Now the comfort, well thats gone. Yes, its a workout to drive it sparingly, but get it on a track and its smooth as butter, short turn rack is only 1 turn to lock and can make a 90* turn without overlapping your hands, quick responsivness is perfect, i offer for you to give it a drive with the new engine.

Feel is important to me to for the reason you mention, plus just enjoyment of something that works without struggling against "weirdness".

A full loaded stock MX-5 is 2,400lbs. A race prepped earlier gen is about 1,800. That's with a cage. Throw on a turbo setup and you can have the same power:weight in a car with massively less total weight, which benefits everything. Of course the 5.0 has a lot of room to make massively more power, which can get the job done too.

It's smooth as butter on a smooth track. Live axles hop around like crack heads in the corners on rough tracks. :judge: Actually that's really the only area where an IRS is objectively superior to modern live axle setups. Otherwise the live axle has a lot going for it (simplicity, strength, weight). Think of how good just the bone stock current V6 Mustang is.

[AARP]

Shaolin, have you driven a race prepped first generation miata? I haven't driven a fox so my view is from the collective.

The stock miata's major shortfall is body roll. However, I run front and rear swaybars with a 6 point roll bar with door bars bolted to the frame. This eliminates most body roll and makes the car handle amazingly along with the 50/50 weight distribution.

In response to Spec Miata Ben, racing really isn't that cheap there either. You COULD have a legal spec miata for 10k, but things have gotten ridiculous and you need at least 30k to be competitive nowadays.

[Shaolin Crane]

Race prep is a relative term. I have driven well prepped miata and the lack of "oh shit" power makes for a dull drive, IMO. As far as a turbo, let me know how a turbo driven car feels on a road course vs. A n/a car, turbos are a pain and should be left for towing or drag racing. This coming from someone who drives the best designed turbo system ever (IMO). And still wouldnt want it in a handling scenario. I could have done a IRS but i wanted to have the dependability of a solid axle with a car that makes approx. 525bhp. An irs wont hold up to a 7k clutch dump.

[enkeivette]

No, a fox... can be had for as cheap as a miata and made to handle better ;)
Or go buy a c5

This quote proves you either hate Jap cars, or are just a tad too gaga over Ford.

Aint no solid axle Mustang gonna handle like a Miata without tires that are worth more than the Miata.

[enkeivette]

An irs wont hold up to a 7k clutch dump.

Uh... yes it will :D ...Admittedly, maybe not with slicks. :sm_laughing::ugh:

But yeah, I'll have to agree about the Miata IRS. It looks like something you would find on an RC car.

This is why I suggested RX7 people, perfect balance of power and handling. :D

[enkeivette]

Ya... a caged lowered Miata was the only car ever able to make me phsyically sick around the twisties. I would only pilot that car in the future. Being a passenger in a road course car is asking to get sick.

[AARP]

This is why I suggested RX7 people, perfect balance of power and handling. :D

But he said he didn't want something maintenance intensive. Might as well buy a couple drums of oil to keep the old rotary happy. :sm_laughing:

Tbf, I love rotaries but they are high maintenance.

[Shaolin Crane]

This quote proves you either hate Jap cars, or are just a tad too gaga over Ford.

Aint no solid axle Mustang gonna handle like a Miata without tires that are worth more than the Miata.

Dont hate japanese cars, just the power plants. I pulled a 1.1g on nt05's those ran me 600 otd.

I truly believe a fox (not all other mustangs) are great tuner cars. They have their shortcomings from the factory, but parts are EVERYWHERE. Last time i was at 7/11 i think i saw an intake manifold for one :rolling:

Tell me what other car you can build to 500rwhp for under 3k? Granted I had to lowball the fuck out of some people. But i grabbed an si-trim for $650, power cooler for it, for $400, and aluminum FRPP heads for $400. Also a cam for $80. Sure I need a few misc odds and ends to reassemble but add another 3k to the suspension (which likely needs to be replaced anyhow since the cars are old) and you'll have a very potent car. Or skip building the ford heart all together and toss in a LSx and call it a day.

Other viable (and more expensive options)
C5
LSx RX7
Monster Miata
FFR
Solstice
Fiesta
Subbie
Evo
etc

[enkeivette]

Dont hate japanese cars, just the power plants. I pulled a 1.1g on nt05's those ran me 600 otd.

I truly believe a fox (not all other mustangs) are great tuner cars. They have their shortcomings from the factory, but parts are EVERYWHERE. Last time i was at 7/11 i think i saw an intake manifold for one :rolling:

Tell me what other car you can build to 500rwhp for under 3k? Granted I had to lowball the fuck out of some people. But i grabbed an si-trim for $650, power cooler for it, for $400, and aluminum FRPP heads for $400. Also a cam for $80. Sure I need a few misc odds and ends to reassemble but add another 3k to the suspension (which likely needs to be replaced anyhow since the cars are old) and you'll have a very potent car. Or skip building the ford heart all together and toss in a LSx and call it a day.

Other viable (and more expensive options)
C5
LSx RX7
Monster Miata
FFR
Solstice
Fiesta
Subbie
Evo
etc

If you do some scavenging, any SBC car.

[Shaolin Crane]

Sure, but the car itself is going to be the short coming. Ive always said, chevy makes great engine, ford makes great cars. Why not combine them.

[Vettezuki]

If you do some scavenging, any SBC car.

Yeah, no kidding. Actually an FC/SBC could be bad mothafucka, whole car, under $10k if you can wrench.

[enkeivette]

Sure, but the car itself is going to be the short coming. Ive always said, chevy makes great engine, ford makes great cars. Why not combine them.

Um, look left...

IRS, double wishbone, front-mid engine car, around 3K lbs... Sexy as shit. What's not to love?

[Shaolin Crane]

Um, look left...

IRS, double wishbone, front-mid engine car, around 3K lbs... Sexy as shit. What's not to love?

Cross fuck ignition

[jedhead]

If I wanted a handling monster, I would get a Lotus Elise or 7.

Bob

[Shaolin Crane]

Holy budget out the window batman

[enkeivette]

Cross fuck ignition

That was 82 only. 68-81 were carb cars. I run a Mighty Demon 750.

[Shaolin Crane]

That was 82 only. 68-81 were carb cars. I run a Mighty Demon 750.

Now you're going backwards, i'll NEVER run a carb over EFI