Diesel Fumes v. Gas Fumes

[enkeivette]

Before you come back with 2nd hand smoke is a health concern, remember that you drive a big ass turbo diesel.

...DPF delete.

[Shaolin Crane]

Are you really going to throw out that uneducated "hippie" response?

Diesel smoke is NO WHERE near as hazardous as the fumes let off by gasoline vehicles, even with that massive cloud of black smoke. Its no different than the fumes you smell when fueling up your car at a gas station. Actually it is since gasoline fumes are many times more carcinogenic than diesel fuel.

Secondly it wasnt a case of "if" it was illegal. This is an all suite hotel, no smoking rooms at all. Plus in nevada pot is very illegal, as it should be. Alcohol is different in many ways since if I dont want to partake in your crap, I dont have to, but if someone is burning it up in public thats something i have to deal with, i feel the same way about cigarettes, and that they shouldnt smoke in public.

[enkeivette]

Diesel fumes settle lower, and are worse for humans. Diesel fumes are more likely to cause lung disease. Gas fumes are worse for the ozone. This is an educated response.

Since smoking in the hotel was banned, you should have complained to management. Also, I doubt legislation would have stopped these guys from fuming up your balcony.


Are you really going to throw out that uneducated "hippie" response?

Diesel smoke is NO WHERE near as hazardous as the fumes let off by gasoline vehicles, even with that massive cloud of black smoke. Its no different than the fumes you smell when fueling up your car at a gas station. Actually it is since gasoline fumes are many times more carcinogenic than diesel fuel.

Secondly it wasnt a case of "if" it was illegal. This is an all suite hotel, no smoking rooms at all. Plus in nevada pot is very illegal, as it should be. Alcohol is different in many ways since if I dont want to partake in your crap, I dont have to, but if someone is burning it up in public thats something i have to deal with, i feel the same way about cigarettes, and that they shouldnt smoke in public.

[Shaolin Crane]

Complaints were made, but making it legal WILL make it things worse.

And here is where you are wrong about diesels. This article came long before the days of a dpf filter. Which even then put diesels at an advantage over gas engines, in the good ol' days where a dump truck and school bus smoked even more than my truck does now. As those engines make in excessive of 650hp

Gasoline vs. Diesel

It turns out that gasoline is more volatile than diesel, not because of what its base consists of, but because of the additives it contains. In addition, vehicles that use diesel tend to be more fuel-efficient and produce less greenhouse gases. In that respect, diesel is more environmentally friendly. Diesel actually produces 15% more in greenhouse gases than gasoline when compared by the litre rather than the gallon. Yet it is through the 20-40% improvement in fuel economy over gasoline that offsets the higher emissions per litre. In actuality, the carbon dioxide emissions are considerably less than gasoline, but diesel does contain 2,778 grams of carbon per gallon, whereas gasoline contains 2,421 grams per gallon. But, again, it is the fuel economy of diesel that accounts for the smaller rate of carbon emissions.

Then again, diesel fuel contains larger quantities of sulfur. The United States has what is considered to be the dirtiest diesel, but as of June 1, 2010 this is going to be different. U.S. diesel fuel has a lower measure of ignition quality. This means that when it is cold outside, ignition performance is poor and can result in higher emissions.

But, the sulfur in the diesel that is emitted during cold ignitions and long engine idling is still harmful to the environment because the sulfurs prevent the control of diesel particulate emissions through diesel particulate filters. This is changing, though, since new advanced technologies such as nitrogen oxide absorbers are being developed to reduce these emissions.

As for gasoline, it is the non-aliphatic hydrocarbons as well as carcinogenic additives that avoid engine-knocking that threaten the public's health and the environment. This exposure happens in the case of gasoline leaks and then, of course, there are the carbon emissions we hear a lot about. Leaks occur when trucks begin leaking the gasoline they are carrying, storage containers are not stored properly, and from motor vehicle leakage. The harmful additives in gasoline can get into groundwater and contaminate public water supplies.

However, Dieselization is becoming a more common use of diesel as a fuel in motor vehicles, although it is determined that both diesel and gasoline have harmful effects on the environment. When we look at the carbon emissions of both, we find that diesel will emit more per gallon (or litre), but when you look at how much you have to fill the fuel tank with diesel versus how much you have to fill with gasoline, you will find that the percentage of emissions is offset for diesel, which can be friendlier on the pocketbook. On the other hand, sulfur is emitted by diesel and diesel does not perform as well in cold weather as gasoline, so until 2010 when diesel is cleaned up, gasoline may be slightly more environmentally friendly than diesel in respect to the emissions from automobiles. As for ground contamination, diesel has an edge over gasoline in keeping our world clean.

[enkeivette]

That article doesn't go against what I said, it just leaves out part of what I said. Like I said, gas fumes are worse for the ozone, but... diesel fumes settle lower and for that reason, are more harmful to humans. And more likely to cause lung disease.

Yes, I've made the argument before too that diesels are more efficient than gas engines and for doing the same work, they pollute less. But, they still settle lower. Watch that black smoke coming out of the smoke stacks, it doesn't go very far.

And yes, I love diesel engines. Just saying...

[Shaolin Crane]

http://webpages.charter.net/lmarz/emissions.html

I'll be the first to admit i didnt read it all since i am at work but i'll take a few quotes directly from the article, which mentions dpf filter which means its relatively new.

" Gasoline PM strongly active for DNA damage and for chromosomal damage • Diesel PM strongly active for DNA damage and weakly active for chromosomal damage • Gasoline SVOC strongly active for DNA damage and chromosomal damage • Diesel SVOC inactive or weakly active for DNA damage or chromosomal damage"

Source: In Vitro Genotoxicity of Gasoline and Diesel Engine Vehicle Exhaust Particulate and Semi-Volatile Organic Compound Materials, L Liu, M Keane, M Cui, M Ensell, W Miller, K Kashon, T Ong, W Wallace; National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; DEER Conference, August 2002

Mammalian cell genotoxicity at 30 degrees F:

"• Gasoline PM strongly active for DNA damage and for chromosomal damage • Diesel PM weakly active for DNA damage and for chromosomal damage • Gasoline SVOC weakly active for DNA damage; strongly active for chromosomal damage • Diesel SVOC inactive or weakly active for DNA damage or chromosomal damage"

[jedhead]

I like the smell of unburnt gasoline than the smell of diesel. As far as drugs go, I think all drugs should be legalized and no prescription needed for any drug. You take the drugs at your own risk.

Bob

[Shaolin Crane]

Well if the smell only meant it was actually bad or not. I too hate diesel, i swam in about 50 gallons today. Here is my issue with legalization, especially Adams case of it being public. If you drink alcohol, pop pills, shoot heroine etc. Thats something ONLY you can get to participate in, smoking in public, be in pot, meth, crack or the like is something that if youre smoking so am I. Most of the time its in a situation where you cant just leave. Keep it a private sector thing and we'll talk. For the record im against ANY form of public smoking. And if Adam doesnt think i get to comment cause i drive a diesel vehicles that smokes than go bitch to the epa, aqmd, california trade board and fuel companies that have a ZERO TOLERANCE about using gas vehicles on a fuel facility, no other choice for me to use a diesel. As far as my race tune, its used in a sanction event placement just like every other vehicle without smog equipment.

[Vettezuki]

. . . smoking in public, be in pot, meth, crack or the like is something that if youre smoking so am I. Most of the time its in a situation where you cant just leave. Keep it a private sector thing and we'll talk. For the record im against ANY form of public smoking.


Easy. Eliminate the concept of public property. All property is private and controlled by the owners. All property is used under terms of use. Then issues such as smoke can be handled as trespass or contract violation. If you're in a Hotel, the hotel decides if it wants to ban or allow smoking, you decide if you want to do business with that hotel. An easier example is that of smoking within restaurants and bars, only nanny state do-gooder Nazi storm trooper types would even imagine that they have the right to create and enforce a law governing smoking within a private business. Go pound sand you sub-human POS. It is NOT the state's business to protect us from ourselves.

I can't stand smoking. I'm even mildly allergic. If I owned a restaurant I wouldn't allow it in the eating area, but I'd never seek to make it illegal through legislative positivism.

[Chuck]

All I have to say is rap your lips around my exhaust pipe and suck it. Myself, Adam, and Guy all drive diesels and all of us hate the smell of it but who cares we are not back there smelling it. Smoking in restaurants on the other hand is much more annoying no one wants to smell cigarette smoke when eating dinner. I do agree with Bob legalize everything let people do as they wish it only harms them just don't do it in my living room and its all good. I don't smoke but many of my friends do and weed smoke is much less annoying than cigarette smoke.

[Shaolin Crane]

I still say it needs to be kept in your own personal privacy, it may not be the states business to protect us from ourselves but it should protect the people from other people. Smoking in public is annoying, its been proven to be the leading cause of death next to car accidents. However if youre a business youre getting permission from the state to opperate as such, and if you dont want to follow the no smoking law you dont have to. But you wont have a business license.

But youre right, lets allow smoking in all privatly owned businesses, gas stations, chemical refinerys, etc etc.

[Vettezuki]

I still say it needs to be kept in your own personal privacy, it may not be the states business to protect us from ourselves but it should protect the people from other people.

Like me stealing your car. Fine.

Smoking in public is annoying, its been proven to be the leading cause of death next to car accidents.

Inside a business is not "public". Don't want to be in a smokey bar/restaurant, don't go to a smokey bar/restaurant. Your are NOT entitled to a smoke free private business. You are NOT entitled to work at a smoke free work place.

However if youre a business youre getting permission from the state to opperate as such, and if you dont want to follow the no smoking law you dont have to. But you wont have a business license.

You're forgetting the part where they raid your ass with a SWAT team to shut you down and auction off your business . . for the good of the people.

This is one of the most insane anti-American ideas ever. Daddy may I please do business with other people who want to do business with me, please please. I promise to be a good boy and do what you say.

Mind your own business. At one point we literally went to war over shit like this. Now we live on our knees. Legitimize state intervention in life to make it better, especially if you only have a utilitarian majoritarian positivist view of law, and you can't be surprised as they keep finding new things to justify their employment and continual "improvement" of society. They will never run out of things to tell you to do. . . and make you do.

Just as Volvo and Mercedes began evolving safety equipment for personal and competitive reasons LONG before government mandates, so to can society develop without the dead hand of the state dictating our existence. It is simply unnecessary and in many cases very counter productive. For one thing, as people have come to perceive a state that provides a safe cradle to grave existence, people become more and more numb to the responsibility of making their own choices.

[Shaolin Crane]

You're right, oh wait no. Thats like saying if a business doesnt want to be handicap accessible then thats fine, who wants cripples coming into your business. Thats an inconvience having to make things easier for them.

Besides you still havnt commented about privatly owned businesses such as places that are highly volitile allowing smoking because its theirs and private and they will do what they want to.

[enkeivette]

Chuck, I actually kinda like the smell of diesel. Haha

[enkeivette]

And how did this thread get back on topic? Damnit Ben. :P

[BRUTAL64]

:popcorn::popcorn:

[enkeivette]

Mmm... diesel popcorn. (Droooooool)

[Vettezuki]

You're right, oh wait no. Thats like saying if a business doesnt want to be handicap accessible then thats fine. . .

You got it! A business is not property of the state. Period. It's up to business owners to figure how to run their businesses, not be told what to do, and never be protected from competition or given any special treatment either. What we have is an irrational cluster fuck.

Next you're going to ask if I think it's ok if businesses exclude people on XYZ grounds. Answer. Yes. I think you're an asshole (and frankly I say a little prayer everyday that my competitors would be so stupid as to send business away), but it is your business. You own it. Ownership means control.


Besides you still havnt commented about privatly owned businesses such as places that are highly volitile allowing smoking because its theirs and private and they will do what they want to.

Let's see. I own a refinery. I make millions of dollars per day refining . . mmmm,

"Employees may not smoke except in designated smoking areas. Failure to comply will be met with summary termination."

Plus they probably don't want to die in a giant hell fire storm either.

Once again. Government is not necessary. Use a tiny bit of imagination, common sense, and a basic understanding of market economics and it's pretty easy to see how things will pan out just fine.

I'm not even going to get into the extraordinary history of regulatory capture in the US.

[Vettezuki]

And how did this thread get back on topic? Damnit Ben. :P

Gotta throw you a curve ball ever once in a while. ;)

[Vettezuki]

Chuck, I actually kinda like the smell of diesel. Haha

When my mom was on intense chemo, she occasionally had the bizarre craving to drink gasoline. She elected not to.

[Chuck]

When my mom was on intense chemo, she occasionally had the bizarre craving to drink gasoline. She elected not to.

I would say that was a good choice.