Crossfire Jet Boat

[enkeivette]

Crossfire... crossfirrreee!!!

Sooo, just dropped Vettezuki's Vette engine into my boat. (I heart you Ben.) Originally I was going to use my marine intake/ carb, but I started staring at the TBIs and I think I fell in love. Haha. But ya, I think I'd get better fuel economy and with a boat motor that is constantly at WOT at 3500 rpm under load, that can't be a bad thing.

So I did some research. Unless I can find a crossfire ECM pigtail, I think my best option is to run a Camaro single TBI ECM, parallel wire the IACs and drill and tap the intake for an intake manifold temp sensor. Should work the same.

So follow a long as I get further into this frankenboat.

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/enkeivette/boatmotor3.jpg

[Shaolin Crane]

I know a great fabric wholesaler if you're thinking of re-carpeting the boat, I did my whole car for $9 would really up the look of everything

[94cobra69ss396]

Don't use the crossfire injection. Those intakes were terrible and had a lot of issue with puddling. If you want TBI get an intake off a late 80's truck instead. Also, you're not going to get any better MPG with the EFI than you will with a properly tuned carb.

[injdinjn]

I have too agree, xfire was another GM fkup.

The simplest would be a carb. TBI's and TPI's require so many sensors and wiring that is prone to corrosion on a boat. And where do you put the oxygen sensor.
Another thing is the intake ports on the GM intakes are lousy esp the xfire.

[kdracer73]

I have too agree, xfire was another GM fkup.

The simplest would be a carb. TBI's and TPI's require so many sensors and wiring that is prone to corrosion on a boat. And where do you put the oxygen sensor.
Another thing is the intake ports on the GM intakes are lousy esp the xfire.
What he said.
GM only used that POS on Corvette and non California F bodies for 2 years before tossing it. It was problematic. Junk it !

[Vettezuki]

While obviously not a brilliant piece of engineering, I think the Xfire gets a little bit of a bad rap. I ran it for a couple years before going up to the LS and it was fine, zero troubles and it got decent street mpg (low 20s was the best I got when optimized). It's a good point that in a boat application where the engine is going to be running at a constant high throttle, a tuned carb would do just as well on fuel consumption.

If you want to go carb, I have a brand new Holly 750 (vacuum) with quick fuel meter blocks I got for the snake. That's still gonna be a little while and I want to go TBI when the time comes anyway, so it's available if you want. Though maybe a 750 is too much carb for that cam. :huh:

[enkeivette]

I'm going crossfire. Im no stranger to tuning carbs and it is very difficult tuning a marine carb that wants to run with the butterflys open while the motor is horsepower limited to 3500 rpm. Bog city.

I'm sure I will get better gas mileage part throttle and at idle. And the boat will spend a lot of time at idle getting out of the marina.

I plan to pick up a Camaro ECM/ pigtail/ IAT sensor next time pick your part has a half off sale. I'll bet I can get everything I need for about $60. :judge:

[enkeivette]

Don't use the crossfire injection. Those intakes were terrible and had a lot of issue with puddling. If you want TBI get an intake off a late 80's truck instead. Also, you're not going to get any better MPG with the EFI than you will with a properly tuned carb.

I would if I didn't already have the crossfire setup. Good tip though.

[enkeivette]

I know a great fabric wholesaler if you're thinking of re-carpeting the boat, I did my whole car for $9 would really up the look of everything

The carpet in the boat is newish, just got dirty from the swap. Some soap will fix it. I just need to reupholster the rear seat with gray vinyl. I've wrapped stuff in vinyl before, it's pretty simple.

[Shaolin Crane]

They have everything and sell it by the square yard. Place is awesome for any car buff, lots of stuff that they match to OE styles as well, place is a vintage porsche lovers dream

[enkeivette]

I have too agree, xfire was another GM fkup.

The simplest would be a carb. TBI's and TPI's require so many sensors and wiring that is prone to corrosion on a boat. And where do you put the oxygen sensor.
Another thing is the intake ports on the GM intakes are lousy esp the xfire.

The water logs will heat up water on both sides, shoot it into the engine, but the water exits I will port to only one water log. I will drill and tap the other for the O2 sensor.

This way, the temp will be the same on each side but one will be dry.

[kdracer73]

I'm going crossfire. Im no stranger to tuning carbs and it is very difficult tuning a marine carb that wants to run with the butterflys open while the motor is horsepower limited to 3500 rpm. Bog city.

I'm sure I will get better gas mileage part throttle and at idle. And the boat will spend a lot of time at idle getting out of the marina.

I plan to pick up a Camaro ECM/ pigtail/ IAT sensor next time pick your part has a half off sale. I'll bet I can get everything I need for about $60. :judge:

Just keep in mind, I think Crossfire was not available in Cali on Camaros. Was Corvette only in Cali. Might be hard to find.

[Vettezuki]

Just keep in mind, I think Crossfire was not available in Cali on Camaros. Was Corvette only in Cali. Might be hard to find.

He got mine from my 82' Vette. He's just trying to sort out a way to control the TBs.

[enkeivette]

Ya, I didn't have a burning desire to do crossfire. But it was there, and I think it will definitely be in improvement over my AFB.

[94cobra69ss396]

Ya, I didn't have a burning desire to do crossfire. But it was there, and I think it will definitely be in improvement over my AFB.

I doubt it will. I would just pick up the Holley from Ben.

[kdracer73]

He got mine from my 82' Vette. He's just trying to sort out a way to control the TBs.

We Called them Ceasefire and Crossfloods.

The Cali Camaros had computer controlled Carbs (if I remember) , so the electronics will need to be from a Vette.

[94cobra69ss396]

Also, if you decide to run an ECM for a single TBI engine and run the injectors parallel like you stated earlier that you will be halving the resistance. You would have to have the ECM tuned for it which in those years would require a chip. You'll be looking at at least $250 in tuning with the chip.

[kdracer73]

Crossfire... crossfirrreee!!!
So I did some research. Unless I can find a crossfire ECM pigtail, I think my best option is to run a Camaro single TBI ECM, parallel wire the IACs and drill and tap the intake for an intake manifold temp sensor. Should work the same.
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OOPS ! I missed that part ! I was thinking bout stock Crossflood harness !

[enkeivette]

Also, if you decide to run an ECM for a single TBI engine and run the injectors parallel like you stated earlier that you will be halving the resistance. You would have to have the ECM tuned for it which in those years would require a chip. You'll be looking at at least $250 in tuning with the chip.

TwinTurbo told me this should work. He knows this stuff well. And I already have a marine carb. So if I decide to do that I'm set.

Look guys, I'm not investing a lot of time or money in this. In fact, I will be spending nearly as much on a bottle of silicone and a new intake gasket to bolt on the carb manifold, as I will on a harness to get this running. So it's more of a curiosity of FI and a desire to be able to say I have a FI boat, than anything.

But thank you all for trying to save me from wasting time and money, I appreciate the advice. Like always. Because sometimes, sometimes... I do take it. Hahah

[Vettezuki]

TwinTurbo told me this should work. He knows this stuff well. And I already have a marine carb. So if I decide to do that I'm set.

Look guys, I'm not investing a lot of time or money in this. In fact, I will be spending nearly as much on a bottle of silicone and a new intake gasket to bolt on the carb manifold, as I will on a harness to get this running. So it's more of a curiosity of FI and a desire to be able to say I have a FI boat, than anything.

But thank you all for trying to save me from wasting time and money, I appreciate the advice. Like always. Because sometimes, sometimes... I do take it. Hahah

If TT said it'd work you can take it to the bank. I support your journey, and hell, the damn thing worked just fine in my car for years.

[enkeivette]

I asked TT about parallel wiring the injectors, and I guess I wouldn't have to. Just the IACs like I said. I didn't mention the injectors, because honestly I hadn't even thought about it.

This was his response:
Yes but no V8 came w/ a single barrel TBI. Later trucks had a single throttle body but it's a 2 bbl unit with 2 injectors. You can simply use that. EAch injector has it's own driver/wiring. You can not hook up more than 1, it will fry the injector driver.
Tuning the ECM has nothing to do with it...

[94cobra69ss396]

So how do you plan on connecting 4 injectors to a harness that only has connectors for 2?

[Vettezuki]

I asked TT about parallel wiring the injectors, and I guess I wouldn't have to. Just the IACs like I said. I didn't mention the injectors, because honestly I hadn't even thought about it.

This was his response:
Yes but no V8 came w/ a single barrel TBI. Later trucks had a single throttle body but it's a 2 bbl unit with 2 injectors. You can simply use that. EAch injector has it's own driver/wiring. You can not hook up more than 1, it will fry the injector driver.
Tuning the ECM has nothing to do with it...

You can ping LS1Z28. There's a place here locally that has every connector and wiring diagram ever made practically. If you need something very simple, I think they can cook it up for you pretty cheaply.

[enkeivette]

So how do you plan on connecting 4 injectors to a harness that only has connectors for 2?

Crossfire is also only two injectors. Each throttle body has a single butterfly/ single injector.

[enkeivette]

You can ping LS1Z28. There's a place here locally that has every connector and wiring diagram ever made practically. If you need something very simple, I think they can cook it up for you pretty cheaply.

I doubt they'll have the edge card style connectors, specifically for the crossfire ECM.

[94cobra69ss396]

Crossfire is also only two injectors. Each throttle body has a single butterfly/ single injector.

Okay. I thought they had dual injectors in each TB. The last time I saw one was in a T/A back around 1989 when I worked at Econolube in highschool.

[enkeivette]

Okay. I thought they had dual injectors in each TB. The last time I saw one was in a T/A back around 1989 when I worked at Econolube in highschool.

Ya, I was surprised to see only one throttle plate on each. I wonder how much it flows. But I guess it doesn't need to flow a lot since it's only about 200hp. ...I wonder if it would support a cam. Probably, since I would need to run an RV cam anyways.

[Vettezuki]

Ya, I was surprised to see only one throttle plate on each. I wonder how much it flows. But I guess it doesn't need to flow a lot since it's only about 200hp. ...I wonder if it would support a cam. Probably, since I would need to run an RV cam anyways.

Can't find the backup, but from pure memory each TB is 350 CFM and people have got pretty mild H&C up around 350~ on 87octane (remember 8.5CR). Pretty fat on the torque which is the whole point of the Xfire setup. Never got mine dynoed, but a few people said it "felt" considerably stronger than the expected.

[enkeivette]

Can't find the backup, but from pure memory each TB is 350 CFM and people have got pretty mild H&C up around 350~ on 87octane (remember 8.5CR). Pretty fat on the torque which is the whole point of the Xfire setup. Never got mine dynoed, but a few people said it "felt" considerably stronger than the expected.

Not bad... If you're going to do heads I would run some 58cc chambers and get that compression up in the high 9s.

[enkeivette]

If I did anything I'd go roots blower/ carb and cam... although, I'd feel bad about ditching the FI if I do get it running... so... I guess I would see doing heads.

[enkeivette]

Any luck finding the fuel pump btw?

[Shaolin Crane]

Can't find the backup, but from pure memory each TB is 350 CFM and people have got pretty mild H&C up around 350~ on 87octane (remember 8.5CR). Pretty fat on the torque which is the whole point of the Xfire setup. Never got mine dynoed, but a few people said it "felt" considerably stronger than the expected.

I love that saying, I know the 07 feels faster than the Superduty but its no where near so :smack:

[Vettezuki]

I love that saying, I know the 07 feels faster than the Superduty but its no where near so :smack:

Yeah, it ain't science. But when people who are familiar with stock C3 Vettes say a specific one feels a bit snappier than their expectations, that's a *little* more reasoned. FTR, one of the things I like about the C3 is that you feel like you're going faster than you are. It's fun and safer. Something like a dialed in ZR1, GT-R, etc., must feel so solid and even quiet at pretty high speeds that it's dangerous . . there always begging you to go truly fast.

[Vettezuki]

Any luck finding the fuel pump btw?

Haven't looked very hard yet to be honest, got some drama and a trip to get ready for. Good news, I bet you J&D has one laying around fairly cheap if worse comes to worst.

[Vettezuki]

If I did anything I'd go roots blower/ carb and cam... although, I'd feel bad about ditching the FI if I do get it running... so... I guess I would see doing heads.

The heads are THE major issue for making power on the L83. I'm pretty sure you can put some L98 heads straight on (check please) and those are considerably better, and a decent foundation for homespun porting. They're still used in a lot of junk yard HP combos that ain't too shabby.

[Vettezuki]

I doubt they'll have the edge card style connectors, specifically for the crossfire ECM.

Maybe not, but now that you mention, LS1Z28 also knows THE guy who designed the ECM in the first place and he has a tiny company that does little odd projects AIR.

[enkeivette]

Haven't looked very hard yet to be honest, got some drama and a trip to get ready for. Good news, I bet you J&D has one laying around fairly cheap if worse comes to worst.

They don't. Called already.

[Vettezuki]

They don't. Called already.

Alright. I won't be home til late tonight, but I'll make a sincere effort to find it. I thought I had the harness and and fuel pump, but there's a chance that in one of my vein attempts to clean up and organize I would have tossed them figuring that in the crazy outside chance I'd put the old motor back in, I would have gotten new ones anyway.

[enkeivette]

Alright. I won't be home til late tonight, but I'll make a sincere effort to find it. I thought I had the harness and and fuel pump, but there's a chance that in one of my vein attempts to clean up and organize I would have tossed them figuring that in the crazy outside chance I'd put the old motor back in, I would have gotten new ones anyway.

Thanks Ben. Let me know.

[Vettezuki]

Thanks Ben. Let me know.

I believe I have found the fuel pump and filter. No dice on the ECU or harness and there's only one very unlikely place left to look. I'm gonna email Paul and see what he remebers. What exactly do you need? He's got a shed full of crap himself.

[enkeivette]

Oy, located a wiring harness from Europe... got is shipped here, spent hours and hours soldering and double checking connections... and nothing. The motor wouldn't fire with the computer.

It was giving spark... when I poured gas in the throttle bodies it would run for a few seconds, but then... nothing.

I tried grounding the fuel injectors to make sure they would fire, and they did. And I ended up having to take it all off the night before a trip to Laughlin. (Promised a friend I'd bring the boat) And I put the carb back on.

So... that sucked. I think the comp might just be dead from sitting outside for so long.

But yeah, I'm going to sell this boat as soon as I work out a few things. I'm over it, want something different. If anyone wants a newly painted SBC jet boat I'll give you a forum member discount.

[jedhead]

I have owned a couple boats with friends in my past. Both were tremendous money pits.

Bob

[enkeivette]

Ya...

I got the feeling I should have sold the neon after rebuilding the upper half of the engine... I didn't... then the trans took a dump.

I'm getting that feeling now... New motor installed... sell it now! Before the jet pump fails! Hahah